So Zael, whats the ideal end game for getting this robot back in order? What would you like it to be capable of?
Also, have you guys ever seen the movie "Beyond the Black Rainbow"? There is a scene where the main villain crawls out of a black fluid...its my inspiration for Numerian Fluids.
Well, I gather from their name that they were maintenance robots originally... probably used for keeping the place in order/running.
Zael would want it to go a step further and be useful in the crafting of tech from components (or even possibly helping to fabricate needed components as well). Zael would want to enable it to speak in common in addition to Androffan, though he would ensure that commands it received from him in Androffan were treated as highest priority.
After those get enabled, Zael would then want to improve its combat capacity (not necessarily to make it a war bot or similar, just to ensure that if it needed to assist in his defense that it would be more capable than standard). To which end he would try to reinforce its frame and maybe work on combat protocols and subroutines, again with strict safety measures in place to protect himself (and a lesser extent his companions, though he would secretly leave that one countermand-able by direct order from him).
Finally he would try to get enough of a working knowledge that he could then, with its assistance, make another one (this time, much more combat focused). Pretty ambitious, not sure we will have quite enough time, but Zael has to have a hobby, right?
That all sounds fantastic. So, you might infer that this repair drone was what caused the 3 gashes on the floor just inside the wall...near the other identical repair drone. It's primary function was to maintain the spaceship on its journey. You might be able to trick it into thinking a certain piece of tech was essential to the mission, and it would then execute repairs or enhancements. You could then make your bluff permanent by some craft modifications. One thing thing that hampers your progress is the bot's self healing capability. It seeks to restore itself to its "natural" or "factory" state at all times, mechanically as fast healing. Your priority might be to disable this functionality so that your own imperative dominates.
hm... I wonder if there is a way to modify, but not fully disable, the self repair... to trick the code into thinking that the mods I make are actually part of that factory standard image, and thus need to be maintained and healed as normal... basically to overwrite the source baseline image with one that has everything I want it to do and be, and have it think that is the new normal, as it were.
Yeah, that could work...so you would need to sort of reverse engineer the factory image, and reinsert it with your new standard. Or I suppose you could blank the default image and write your own wholly from scratch.
I've got some company coming in a bit, will be afk most of the day likely.
Enjoy :)
Sweet, going to have a go to the lake to fish and swim with the family.
I will be travelling a bit in the morning tomorrow but it wont be huge absence like today, just a few hours.
I've started our loot sheet. It can be accessed here. I may have missed some items, I went through the gameplay forum a little fast. Please update it where you see it needs updated. Add in the value columns for extra internet points!
Awesome, thanks for that :D :D :D
Great job Krah :) Off the top of my head the box with the 3 Flare Guns seems to be missing - could we get a sale value for those GM Infinity? I know there is a posted retail value for one somewhere, but I keep missing it.
Yep, its in the PRD like all the tech equipment, 300 gp base. The major difference from that value however, unlike the usual 1/2 price, is its timeworn quality. Timeworn reduces its worth by 1/2 before the 1/2 price for selling. Basically assume any loot you get is timeworn, unless I say something like "Remarkably not worn by time", etc.
In the case of flare gun, its 300 base. Since its timeworn, its 150. Since you are selling it, its 75. Without any charges, a timeworn item gets even more reduced, to only 1%...basically junk.
Near bottom of this page are links to all the tech equipment with non-timeworn base prices.
I put the flare guns at the bottom.
Guys sorry for slow posting today. I started a grad class today and was expecting to be able to post regularly, but the class is more hands on than I thought and I dont think I will be able to check in except for morning and lunch. I can post regular the rest of the day though. So expect...
6-7 am CMT ---- 1 or 2 posts
7-12 ---- no posting
12-1 pm CMT ---- 1 or 2 posts
1-5 pm CMT no posting
5+pm CMT ---- Normal Infinity posts
NP, thanks for the heads up and good luck with the class :) Still the postiest GM around by a wide margin from what I can see :)
Focus on your studies, grad classes can be somewhat intense, but if you are interested in what you are learning you should be fine. What are you studying if you don't mind my asking?
Well the class is a joke to be honest, which is why I expected it not to impact our games. It is a training course for something like an advanced placement course in engineering I will be teaching. Luckily it counts as grad credit and therefore increases my salary (more grad credits = more money as teacher).
My degree is in astrophysics, but these days electronics (as it relates to astronomy) is my (informal) focus.
Will be busy most of the day Wednesday. Limited to no posting that day.
"Tarkov, step back and let me send it to the veggie-hells."
And just to give you all a heads up, as this has been a great game, I'm going to be running a Giant Slayer recruitment starting sometime this week once I have had a chance to read over the books. Be delighted if any of you were to apply :)
Decided to apply after all, ;) No pressure to pick me or anything. "If he doesn't we could always push him into the Torch before we turn it back on..." Oh hush, you. That game has no bearing on this one. "Right... which is totally why you are letting him know here that you applied." Oh go soak your head, Zael.
<ahem>
Anyway, all kidding aside I hope that you will at least enjoy the character during submission phase.
LOL, been enjoying the recruitment so far and look forward to seeing it, been a bit busy with the Brexit referendum over night, but should be able to get stuck back in in a few hours. Brin's/Krah's porridge eating contest was certainly fun so I look forward to seeing what you have in store - pint sized presumably :)
I voted leave so pretty happy with the result, and Cameron going, for me it was a clear choice of being a democracy able to vote for its leaders or not - though there is admittedly a great deal of nuance in that its largely accurate.
Can we clarify the rules for Robot creation/repair/modification? My understanding is that it requires a special series of feats to be able to do it. It does seem like it would be substantially better than Craft Construct? Don't want to look up the actual rules for fear of spoilers, etc., but it might be good to know what sort of rules and prerequisites we might need to meet if we were interested.
Maybe if we wanted a fixed up robot earlier we could use the hirelings rules? Something like you pay the same amount for fluids to power it as you would for a hireling willing to accompany you into battle? Just spit balling there have not really looked at the numbers, etc.
The only robot construct rules are in the 5th volume of the Iron Gods AP. You cannot make them with Craft Construct at all, let alone modify them. You need different feats, an appropriate lab that your GM lets you have, and a power source that your GM lets you have.
Can we clarify the rules for Robot creation/repair/modification? My understanding is that it requires a special series of feats to be able to do it. It does seem like it would be substantially better than Craft Construct? Don't want to look up the actual rules for fear of spoilers, etc., but it might be good to know what sort of rules and prerequisites we might need to meet if we were interested.
Maybe if we wanted a fixed up robot earlier we could use the hirelings rules? Something like you pay the same amount for fluids to power it as you would for a hireling willing to accompany you into battle? Just spit balling there have not really looked at the numbers, etc.
The only robot construct rules are in the 5th volume of the Iron Gods AP. You cannot make them with Craft Construct at all, let alone modify them. You need different feats, an appropriate lab that your GM lets you have, and a power source that your GM lets you have.
Craft Mechanical seems like it would cover at least what I am trying to do I would think (at least at the moment). I understand where the guy is coming from, but to me that seems more for if I was trying to build a new one using nothing but the instructions on the panel as a guide. In my case I would think that I am more repairing one than building it up from base components. I would further argue, based on some of what our GM has said, that I would initially be aided in this task by the nature of the robot itself, given it has self repairing capabilities. Now when I get around to trying to subvert its programing then we begin entering murkier waters... and if I tried to replace its missing arm with a laser drill or some such then even more so.
That is my take anyway. Also I would say that Zael can't necessarily make the parts he is going to the foundry for, even though he might be able to recognize what they are well enough to order them. Spiting hairs to be fair, but sometimes that hair split makes all the difference.
We have already seen with Tarkov's adamantine sword that craft simply is not a viable mechanic for anything beyond the cheapish mundane. A working robot the AP does not expect us to have, and has rules for would seem a pretty big balance issue.
I do know you require tech feats to create tech items, just as you do for magic items and that you do not seem to be able to do it until 6th level.
You can craft technological gear and items.
Prerequisite(s): Technologist, Craft (mechanical) 5 ranks, Knowledge (engineering) 5 ranks
Benefit: You can create technological gear. Creating a piece of technological gear takes 1 day for every 1,000 gp in the item's price. To create the object, you must use up raw materials costing half of this total price.
You can also repair a broken technological item if it is one that you could make. Doing so costs half the raw materials and half the time it would take to craft that item from scratch.
And after a little searching I also found...
Craft Technological Arms and Armor
Craft Pharmaceutical
Craft Cybernetics
True, but I would argue that there is a difference between Zael making the missing/broken parts himself (or repairing them even) and his just placing already constructed parts into an otherwise functional machine. Granted he needs some technical crafting knowledge and engineering knowledge to do this, but given I have taken skill points in both (implying I have spent time studying such things), they are both class skills for me (implying that such skills are within the normal activities of my day to day career, as opposed to hobbies), and that I have the techonlogist feat (further specializing this knowledge into more than just the basics of engineering and mechanical devices)... well I would say that this means he is at least qualified to do the following:
1) Identify the technology at hand, and identify what parts are broken.
2) Be able to remove broken pieces using a schematic (which the front panel taken from them effectively is).
3) Be able to install the proper pieces in place once he has them.
Essentially I am viewing it like a person who knows a bit about how to build and program computers. They can probably identify a broken circuit board, and even replace it/a component on it if it is the only thing broken... but only if they already have the piece in question. Very few DIY computers are fashioned from cards that the owner made themselves.
To put another way: if the Foundry, scrap yard, or the busted robot we are using as a doorstop don't have working replacement parts, Zael would have a very hard time making them unless they are very simple in material and design (and even then the result would probably wear out faster due to being a substandard part)... but as long as he knows what he is looking for, he should be able to successfully install if he finds it.
All sensible enough points, but I think the same problem of Tarkov creating adamantine greatswords arises we would be getting something the AP does not intend us to have at a massively reduced rate. We already have a higher point buy than APs typically call for, and GM Infinity has already mentioned considering having to up the power levels of our opponents, without us adding a robot to the party.
Fair, which is partially why Zael's goal are not to prioritize combat potential off the bat. He will eventually get to that, but even then it will more be for that "protect our stuff/our space while we are away" role than the overt "Kill all meatbags" role. As I said when GM Infinity asked my intentions for the repairs:
Well, I gather from their name that they were maintenance robots originally... probably used for keeping the place in order/running.
Zael would want it to go a step further and be useful in the crafting of tech from components (or even possibly helping to fabricate needed components as well). Zael would want to enable it to speak in common in addition to Androffan, though he would ensure that commands it received from him in Androffan were treated as highest priority.
After those get enabled, Zael would then want to improve its combat capacity (not necessarily to make it a war bot or similar, just to ensure that if it needed to assist in his defense that it would be more capable than standard). To which end he would try to reinforce its frame and maybe work on combat protocols and subroutines, again with strict safety measures in place to protect himself (and a lesser extent his companions, though he would secretly leave that one countermand-able by direct order from him).
Finally he would try to get enough of a working knowledge that he could then, with its assistance, make another one (this time, much more combat focused). Pretty ambitious, not sure we will have quite enough time, but Zael has to have a hobby, right?
Now granted those last few might be more ambitious and require additional feats, levels, and even special stuff granted by our GM during later sections of the AP. I am fine with that. I am content with this being a sort of "long term" project that I am fiddling with throughout the entire campaign. In some ways it would even be a sort of capstone project for Zael... something that proves, once finished, that he is ready to set out on his more ambitious goals of taking over the country. As such being handed it on a silver platter all up front wouldn't make sense, any more than your getting handed a full set of Adamantium weapons and armor that some hedge wizard just happened to enchant out of the kindness of his heart. Some work is required, and the work invested and pursuit spent makes the acquisition at the end that much more sweet.
Krah's going to break everything eventually so...
Hehe... well, we could always get it to (eventually of course) make you a mecha suit out of the scraps of one of them... and then have you battle prototype combat units with it. Heck, we could even have Tarkov forge a belt of Adamatinum that we call the "Heavy Weight" and have you defend it against all comers...
Make a suit of Raider Power Armor, which was probe my fav armor design.
I'm kind of playing the robot thing by ear and don't really want to lay out hard fast rules, but agree that its abilities should scale. I am totally ok with the first goal you earlier stated, to trick it into repairing items instead of the ship. There are quite a few NPCs in Torch that would do that for you anyways, some for free.
More complex parts will require forging skymetals which is currently impossible.
On a related but unrelated note, was looking up Mechwarrior art for a different project and found this. Maybe it is a sign... I could SO see Krah inside it.
Basically, everyone is slowly moving towards this.
I like the power armor but I think as he becomes increasingly more alien in biology he'll be more like a watered-down Prototype.
Just spitballing something unrelated if any of you have the time and inclination to help me consider an early stage game idea I have been turning around in my head for a couple of days.
Sort of want to do something where each PC is expected to make a long multi paragraph post once a week, maybe even two weeks, incorporating dealing with hordes of normal zombies, which they would roll for and incorporate in their post. Maybe, they roll all the attacks, etc., and rolls are conducted in the discussion thread and broken up into blocks? Like one post for PC attacks rolls, another for PC miscellaneous rolls, and the same for the zombies, then the player uses them in order? But I would roll any infection rolls secretly.
Perhaps something like a period of normal play, interspersed with occasional longer form sequences? Start alone and make way to Temple of Pharasma, chase scenes, horde fights, etc. Basically designed so that the desperate nature of the situation would make player interaction during those sequences limited... Hmmm. Players would need to create their characters with this in mind. Probably 3rd or 4th level? There would be other varieties of foe in the normal play potions.
Since from early in the game it would be apparent that Urgothoa is involved in some way - in the Golarion sense of through her followers - the games title would probably feature one of her nick names, Lady Despair, or The Pallid Princess, or possibly the name of her ritual The Reaping, though its rather generic. Blessing of the Pallid Princess, a Dance with Lady Despair? A Reaping for Lady Despair? Or Reap her I hardly Urgoth- o- her!
Any thoughts, or feedback appreciated.
Just spitballing something unrelated if any of you have the time and inclination to help me consider an early stage game idea I have been turning around in my head for a couple of days.
Hm... well, here is my thoughts at first glance:
So, first the idea of having one post a week is interesting, especially as it would also be a week in game time. Perhaps require the posts to be in journal format... like the survivors are recording their thoughts after the fact. That way you could have all the die rolls hidden up top by a spoiler, then have the week's entry describing how they had played out.
This format would also make it so that survivors who ran into each could have conflicting remembrances of the events, as they are just that: their memories and views on them.
Second, I would simplify combat for this format. Rather than have a whole turn by turn combat in discussion, I would set it up like this:
1 roll (say 20 sided) determines if combat happens at all (if not, presume all encounters with the undead are evaded somehow... stealth, distractions, traps, barricades, or good old fashioned leg day). If a survivor has met up with another, this die is the same for both as they presumably would be encountering the same things. This roll would be done by you as the GM prior to their weekly post.
1 roll to determine difficulty if combat happens. Again by you as GM.
1 roll determines survival (with a positive multiplier if difficult is low, and a negative is high) and outcome. A table would have the results, suffice to say higher would be better. This one should be by them.
If they die, have that post be from third person view... some other survivor recording the final moments they witnessed or whatnot.
Will give it some more thought... its an interesting idea though.
Since the expectation is that no characters would actually die in these scenes, but that there is a risk of infection and the possibility of finding a cure for the infection - which would not be available via skill checks, etc., since this would be a first instance. I tend to think a sense of urgency can make a game much more exciting, so a scenario where the group are searching for a cure, or seeking a villain who might have knowledge of one is appealing.
Maybe something like bit and killed transform in minutes, alive, but infected 48 hour total with initial symptoms kicking in after something like 1d8+6 and confusion, as in the condition, setting in for the final 1d4 hours?
Probably envisioning the Churches of Pharasma and Desna as major locations. Hmmm.
I think there is currently a zombie campaign on the forums going on. That maybe what you're thinking about.
Guys my grad class just finished, I have a week off before one more week of class. Posting speed should return to normal now for a good 8 days or so. ;)
Because it was soooo slow ;)
Heh, well we did just spend 2 weeks in town.
Post edited could someone move Tarkov, on tablet, he will move to flank with Krah provoking as he failed his acrobatics.
My suggestion would be that Zael withdraws eating one aoo, Tessara steps back and readies an aide another to help whoever the flyer attacks AC leaving Tarkov and Krah in the front rank with effectively 20 AC each. Then we all leg it get behind a locking door and heal up before going back and focusing all of our attacks on the medbot. This is what Tark is essentially trying to convey.
Well, Krahs either going to be a big damn hero and save Zael, or something else entirely.
You could activate the shield belt and have quite a strong AC 24 against their AB +5 and +6.