Hello, the aforementioned Leo here. I don't have an actual concept ready, but am certainly interested. Just need to scrounge up some inspiration for a character.
Wrestling with an idea, just not entirely sure it fits; here's the gist of it:
A sorcerer that was conscripted towards the end of the war and given just enough training to qualify as cannon fodder. Picking up on the fact that he was considered expendable, he deserted just before the start of the last battle, coincidentally escaping before the Day of Mourning hit. Or at least, so he thought. The magical cataclysm affected him invisibly, mutating his magical bloodline into something alien. Over the last year or so his body has been slowly changing in bizarre ways. Hair has been falling out in clumps, his arms have been getting strangely long, and the strange bump on his shoulder has been moving of its own volition. As a Cyran refugee, he since found a home in Haltwhistle, quickly garnering a reputation as a recluse. A rather odd one, at that.
Here's Thenji with the basic statblock output from HL. I will clean it up since their format leaves a lot to be desired, but it will have to wait until I've slept. I haven't figured out what bonus skill points he gets and all that yet based on your homebrew extras, therealthom. I will work on that later.
Let me know if you have any questions or feedback.
P.S. HeroLab seems to have no way to turn off the default setting to maximize 1st level HP. I had to use a manual adjustment to lower my HP for my two levels worth of rolls (1st: 2, 2nd: 5) + 1 = 8 total. Anyone using HL who does not know how to do this and needs to, I can advise the steps.
Hey Mahorfeus, as Thenji is renting out cabins for veterans with no other place to go, your man could be a tenant maybe? Thenji/Vex is definitely not one to pry or ask too many questions.
@everyone: Since war recovery is such a large theme in Eberron with returning vets and militia-trained peasants, if anyone is interested in taking some of the teamwork feats, it might make a lot of sense thematically. Just throwing it out there in case anyone wants to see if there are any of those feats people think they might agree on.
Just returned from a holiday trip to london so sorry for my absence.
Perhaps Uthar would know Thenji from childhood or perhaps uthar regularily maintained Thenji's armour for him during the war?
Perhaps (if we're going with the concept twist) Uthar may even be aware that Vex has taken Thenji's place, but being a fairly quite man has never shared what he considers to b e a friends secret?
Perhaps I would know DSX's character from supply deliverys or, again, from childhood?
Otherwise it would stand to reason, that as Uthar is an armour-smith in a relativly small town, any PC wearing armour would at least be aquainted with Uthar.
Side-note: Forgot to roll for Uthar's Level 1 Health, going to fix that now!
Pinvnendor, NM, OK everyone. -- first level HP are Max. We're rolling on 2nd and up.
Mahorfeus, I guess you'd be going aberrant bloodline? I have never been a fan of the aberrant bloodline. Like the undead bloodline, something about it just annoys me aesthetically. But that is a great melding of Eberron history and PF flavor. If that's the character you want to play, I look forward to it.
Leo, welcome aboard.
Rolling HP for Lydia:
Level 1: +2
Level 2: +2
OK, this is a bit of a problem, less HP than HeroLab lets you start with...
Don't you automatically start with full HP at L1? So that would be 8+2. Bit of a bump there.
Good point, Treppa. Can you clarify Thom?
Pinvnendor, NM, OK everyone. -- first level HP are Max. We're rolling on 2nd and up.
;-)
OK, so re-rolling for 2nd level:
LOL, so typical, that means 2 thanks to Thoms minimums.
The cleric is about ready.
Lydia is likewise ready.
Backstory and stat block should be done soon. I'll try to have it up later tonight.
Cool, guys. Work put on a little surge, but it looks like time to seriously vet your sheets.
More or less finished.
Should be done, unless anything doesn't meet standards!
The concept I have in mind:
Jamorin wasn't born in Haltwhistle, but arrived when his family's farm had burnt down in a raid, he had been lucky enough not to be in the house when it was set aflame, the rest of his family wasn't so lucky. After the fire he was determined to join and do his part in the war.
Jamorin Tigersoul was always quick on his feet, he was nimble, but somewhat spindly for a soldier. He wanted to do his part helping out with the war efforts, but although he could swing a sword he was a bit of a clutz and never got the hang of armour, he really wasn't cut out for frontline work. His commander recognizing his shortcomings, and worrying he might do more harm to his allies than enemies, decided to make him a message runner. Though Jamorin protested that he wanted to fight with everyone, but the commander insisted he needed someone trustworthy and light of foot to assure messages and orders were delivered wherever he needed them to go. He was mainly removed from the battles, occasionally he'd get sent out scouting, but his main job was transferring messages.
End concept.
I'd like to use the Unchained Monk class unless that would be a problem. Thinking Jam would have extensive training so he could be resourceful and take care of himself with whatever's at hand, or an empty fist when necessary since he doesn't really work well with traditional weapons and armour.
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Leo, I like the concept. We can give unchained monk a go with my usual caveat when using new (to me) material. I may smack it with a nerf bat if it plays too good.
Dabbler, what do you think about the unchained monk?
A couple things I noted -- only 2 good saves. 3 good saves was one of the defining features of the class for me. They are treating flurry as its own thing. I always thought the 'like 2 weapon fighting' idea was just wrong.
Meowselsworth hasn't checked in. Is he/she interested?
Still aiming for the game to start in the first week of September, although I am potentially traveling for work that week.
So much to do.
Checking in. I am interested, but this week has been a mess. Sorry for not checking in earlier, I'll have a concept together, I'll work on this today
Welcome aboard, Meowselsworth. No huge hurry. I've yet to vet anyone's sheet.
I've made one change to Lydia, I've changed her to the Feral Hunter archetype. Essentially she loses the animal companion and teamwork feats, and gains wildshape instead. I feel it fits her much better.
Dabbler, what do you think about the unchained monk?
It's a Brawler with some fancy tricks. As a playable class it's more playable than the core monk, but I have to confess that I was very disappointed that it didn't really address the monk's major problems and it added to some of them (the ki costs for some of the abilities is staggering, and ki was a sparse resource to begin with). It's better in combat than a core monk with the new style tricks, but at the expense of the good will save which makes no sense at all. It's not really as good as a full martial class, IMHO, but it's closer than the core monk. In a low-magic gear setting it could work OK compared to the rest of the party.
I'd say my monk was better balanced and strong enough to stand up in a party, but then I am biased :p
Yeah, that's why I asked you. I didn't delve into your new monk mechanics, but I did lurk on your playtest review thread. A nice piece of work.
So's Lydia. She looks ok.
Uthar looks ok. NM, you might want to list his attacks without Power Attack factored in case you need the extra to hit.
Everyone, please link all non-core feats, traits, or other features. If it isn't in the core rulebook, it is nearly certain that I won't know it and looking things up makes me grumpy.
Also, if you spell out the math on attack bonuses, skill ranks, ability scores, etc. It will make my job easier.
Treppa, alignment channel is way off the beaten path, but I like it. I'd appreciate it if you added her background to the profile. Aljohar looks good to go.
I knew nothing about alignment channel until I ran Council of Thieves. The cleric NPC had it, and I had to learn it to run him. That's when I realized how AWESOME it is.
It's got great flavor and is a logical extension of channeling.
The shifter conversion was pretty straight forward. I could figure it out. I am having trouble tracing the changeling conversion. Can you spell out the herolab conversion for me?
And bluff. This should be a good campaign for a bluffer, eventually. And I like bluffers to a point. But a year or three ago there were threads about absolutely ridiculous bluff feats and combos. Fair warning that I will likely be resistant. Hence this conversation.
Dabbler : Lydia Wolfheart, shifter feral hunter. OK
NM : Uthar Hammerhand, human armored hulk, armor smith OK Treppa : Aljohar Sines, human cleric of Dol Dorn OK
Mahorfeus: Syrus Regol, human sorcerer. OK pending feat question
Pinvendor: Vex/Thenji rogue-like changeling Outstanding questions
Leo : Jamorin Tigersoul , Unchained Monk
DSX : human (?) vintner with 'civilian guilt'
Meowselworth: ?
I'm currently thinking about a Kalashtar Psion, partially because I've never played either of those before and they seem to work well together and fit with the character concept I have in mind. My rough idea is below.
Her prescience was of use for the locals even though dealing with Linokashtai was seldom a pleasure. Despite her discomfort being in a noisy environment and her extreme pessimism, she genuinely wanted to help and her advice was valued for the tactical advantage that it would bring. Because of this, she became an occasional advisor to one of the local minor nobles until the end of the war, when her advice would only be sought on occasion. For Linokashtai, while the quiet that came after the war was a pleasant change of pace that allowed her to get back to her meditation, she realized quickly that she rather enjoyed feeling needed.
Currently considering the clairsentient psion. I have a question about the Kalashtar, though. Where would I be getting the racial build information for this race? I found a resource that has some of that info, but it doesn't really seem official at all. That is, if Kalashtar is an okay race to play. And if Psion is an okay class to play. If not, no problem.
The version of kalashtar on HeroLab is as follows:
Type: Humanoid; Subtype: Kalashtar
Starting Languages: Common, Quori.
Abilities:
Dual Spirit: +2 save bonus vs any mind effecting effect.
Human Looking: +2 to disguise checks to appear human.
Mindlink: 1/day a kalashtar may establish a mindlink as the telepath power, telepath level equal to half their character level.
Naturally Psionic: Gain one psionic power point per character level.
Dreamless: Kalashtar sleep but do not dream, they are immune to dream and nightmare spells, and any spell of effect that requires dreaming.
Social Interaction: Kalashtar gain a +2 bonus to any social rolls such as Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate.
No ability score bonus.
** spoiler omitted ** You have 4 feats listed, Aberrant Tumor, Alertness, Eschew Materials, Weapon Finesse. Please confirm that you chose Aberrant Tumor and Weapon Finesse. Alertness comes from the familiar. Eschew Materials is a class feature. I think I sorted it out correctly.
Yep, that's about the size of it.
And the backstory change sounds good.
Meowselworth. Kalashtar is fine. Psion is fine.
DSX, How is your PC sheet coming ??
Good, I've got a bit more background coming & will probably be creating a bard to help buff the party.
Karl Roujon
Born the second son of a small family vineyard, to the west of Haltwhistle in the leeways of the the Black Mountains. A small family concern the vineyard was hit as Karl was coming of age with their fathers death. It left his 2 sisters; Edith & Yvette devastated, whilst his brother Johan saw the responsibility as something that didn't suit his wandering spirit so he left the estate to travel to the go to the city.
Thus Karl felt slightly burdened with the unexpected responsibility, however his mother and grandmother still retained charge of the day-to-day running, but Karl was needed to continue with the more dangerous aspects of the business. This was made worse by the war and his ambivalent feelings towards him keeping out of it. These ambivalent feelings mirrored that he felt for his father. For he had been named after a travelling troubadour his mother liked at a time in the marriage when there were certain difficulties. Karl had heard whispers of illegitimacy but not really accredited it with much for his father brought him up.
These testing times also produced a half-sister from his 'father', a half-elf who lives in the town and she was acknowledged as family - but never really accepted & lived with her elven mother. But his father and mother reconciled and produced a pair of lovely young ladies. The first, Yvette, has married a clerk - a very fastidious man with a sense of honour who is happy to pitch in and work come harvest season.
Whilst Edith is courting a young rogue that Karl disapproves of, he seems the sort to rush off into the night. And the lads job is not secure enough for the forthright Karl.
Ambitions: Always felt a touch out of place, his wanderlust has been tempered by both his elder brothers leaving (which puts responsibility for the plantation upon him) and the war.
However he enjoys his cart trips and going to the town, especially in the spring and summers when the vineyards work can be less demanding.
Because of the greater ecologicl movement of the war Karl has found a few fruits that are quite exotic, he has an interest in growing them & perhaps making a taste sensation of his wines.
Traits
Generous with money, but those that need it will ask.
Comfortable in crowds, a Gallic feel of ease & friendship.
Speech: Normal, with good vocabulary. No accent.
Roster:
Dabbler : Lydia Wolfheart, scout, shifter feral hunter. OK
NM : Uthar Hammerhand, armor smith, human armored hulk, OK
Treppa : Aljohar Sines, ex-army medic, human cleric of Dol Dorn OK
Mahorfeus: Syrus Regol, human sorcerer. OK
Pinvendor: Vex/Thenji rogue-like changeling Outstanding questions
Leo : Jamorin Tigersoul , Runner, Unchained Monk sheet not yet complete
DSX : Karl Roujon, vintner with 'civilian guilt' , bard sheet not yet complete
Meowselworth: Linokashtai, Kalashtar, clairsentient psion. sheet not yet complete
Likewise on the bluff, don't expect to be able to convince people that the sky is green. But a well-formulated lie may very well save your bacon.
Most importantly: which level of twist will you be using for Thenji?
All: On the issue of religion: The local area is mostly devoted to the Sovereign Host but there is a large minority who follow the Silver Flame In general people are moderately devout, 'Church everyday Sunday and a prayer meeting on Thursday' types. Being so close to the Eldeen Reaches, there is a smattering of druidism as well.
- Hiding things: Aside from the auto-ballista and warforged golem generator ;-P, I'm pretty sure Thenji's hiding of things will remain pretty mundane. Yes, daggers and his thieving tools were really all I had planned. Once he has a little extra cash, probably a potion or two will find its way into the secret pockets. I also imagine in the event he actually steals something or picks a pocket, he may try and hide valuables in this way.
- Changeling conversion: I will copy the statistics for the race as HeroLab shows it once I get home. Since HeroLab has copy/paste turned off, I will have to do this by hand unless you have a place where I can email a snipping tool jpeg of what HL shows directly. As far as I know the conversion from 3.5 wasn't significantly different than the original, but then I never played 3.5 nor really familiarized myself with the 3.5 version of the race. I just selected the race in HeroLab and let it handle the math.
- Bluffing: Your cautionary warning comes a little as a surprise. Mainly because it immediately makes me feel offended as if you're suggesting I'm min/maxing Thenji's Bluff stat. However, as you do not know me or my gameplaying, I ignored my initial reaction and realize you're being a good GM. I myself rarely enjoy playing with people who are not Treppa, DSX, Mahorfeus, Leoian, and Meowselsworth for the very reason that I do not at all enjoy people who play to leverage the mechanics as opposed to those who use them to describe the character. I can completely appreciate you as GM providing a warning if you see an area of concern, so I understand the action.
I admit I may have targeted some traits and feats to help Thenji make his Disguise and Bluff checks easier, but only because I anticipated he would probably end up having to make rolls based on the fact he's living as someone else in that man's hometown. I started off with the assumption that any Changeling worth his/her salt should very well not be tripped up because they have to open their mouth.
Honestly, I wouldn't even know about the super-Bluffer chains you mentioned nor do I have any idea why anyone would try to increase Bluff to the degree that it's broken. I mean I understand it's used to lie and fool people which seems situationally useful at best. Since I've never investigated this or had anyone play with (or under me as GM) that attempted something like this, I'm unclear why this would be a concern unless it's about using it to Feint. Regardless, I can assure you, I am not a player who chooses things in order to break the game.
- Summary: I definitely don't want to cause any problems for you, and if you have this many concerns about Thenji now, maybe I should create a different character. I admit I am surprised he's causing so many questions. I have been subscribing to Paizo since they first released PFRPG meaning I have access to a super amount of PF sources as a result, and I also keep my HeroLab just as up-to-date. It's easy for me to put a whole lot of stuff into a character to which others may not have access easily. If that has played into this, I'm sorry.
If another character would be better, I had also thought about the psionic class Cryptic as a roguey alternative, and I could just go for vanilla human to keep it simple. Let me know if that would be preferable, and I will get started. :-)
I am perfectly alright with your change. Linokashtai is 27 years old, but I can make her older if you need her to be. That's just the high end of a trained character, and I'm not too set on any particular age. In terms of religion, I will have Linokashtai be a follower of the Path of Light, as it's more common of her race. Unless you'd prefer I switch it to something more local.
I should have my character sheet linked later, I just have a few feats and powers left to select. I use Myth Weavers for my sheets, but if that's a problem, I can put it together elsewhere.
For me, the best case scenario would be going with Ultimate Psionics and taking the 0-level version of Call to Mind as one of my 0-level powers (that I need psionic focus to use), but I can understand why that might not be acceptable.
As promised!
Medium humanoid (shapechanger)
Senses (normal)
Automatic Languages: Common
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Racial
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Intuition: Changelings are inherently skilled in deception and intimidation, and though they cannot actually detect thoughts as doppelgangers can, they can intuitively read body language and attitude with surprising accuracy. Changelings gain a +2 racial bonus on Bluff, Intimidate, and Sense Motive checks.
Natural Linguist: A Changeling adds Linguistics to her class skill list.
Minor Change Shape (Su): A Changeling has the supernatural ability to alter her appearance as though using a disguise self or alter self spell that affects her bodies but not her possessions. This is not an illusory effect but a minor physical alteration of a changeling's facial features, skin color and texture, and size, within the limits as described for the spells. The changeling can use this at will and the alteration lasts until she chooses to change shape again. A changeling reverts to her natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals their natural form. When using this ability to create a disguise, a changeling receives a +10 circumstance bonus to Disguise checks. Using this ability is a full-round action.
- Shape Change (Medium): If the form you take is that of a Medium humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength.
- Shape Change (Small): If the form you take is that of a Small humanoid, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity.
Slippery Mind: Changelings have slippery minds and gain +2 racial bonus vs sleep and charm effects.
Racial Abilities:
- +2 racial bonus to saving throws against sleep and charm effects.
- +2 racial bonus to bluff, intimidate and sense motive checks.
- Natural linguist: Changelings add speak language to their list of class skills for any class they adopt.
- Minor changeshape (Su): Changelings have the ability to alter their appearance as though using a disguise self spell, this does not affect their possessions. This is not an illusory effect but a minor physical alteration of features. The changeling can use this at will and lasts until they choose to change again or are killed in which case they revert to their natural form. A true seeing spell reveals their natural form. When in use this ability gives the changeling a +10 circumstance bonus to disguise checks. Using this ability is a full-round action.
One thing of note: HeroLab does not automatically assign the +2 to Str in Thenji's current stat block for being a Medium creature at present. So I should be factoring that in before gameplay. Also, Thenji's current skill list does not reflect the rogue changes you mentioned before. I will leave him as is for now until you've advised how I should proceed and then make the aforementioned adjustments.
Well I had Jam just about ready, but my cat distracted me by making a mess I had to go clean up while I was editing the stat block and I ended up losing what I had edited, so I'll have to fix it tomorrow. I just have a straight paste from Hero Lab in there right now.
Well that was embarrassing...for some reason I was convinced the Hunter (as a spontaneous caster) was casting off Charisma...and it's Wisdom...and I'm an idiot.
Thom, I've adjusted Lydia to use Wisdom not Charisma, she "feels" much smoother now, can't think why I made that error...
Peter sounds like he'd be a nice responsibility. :D
Meowselworth: I'm using Psionics Unleashed from Dreamscarred Press which is the source for the pfsrd entry. Please stick to that. Nice avatar for her BTW. Kind of creepy.
DSX: thanks for the information. More to come on Peter.
Leo: No worries. I'll look at Jamorin tonight.
Pinvendor: I've accidentally deleted 3 replies to you while working on them. Short form: I think we are generally on the same wavelength. I just can't figure out some of the skill math. Now I am out of lunch. More tonight.
Regarding the PF Psionics source: Does anyone know why the d20pfsrd is using the old version of Psionics Unleashed instead of the rules from Ultimate Psionics/Psionics Unleashed Revised? Until Meowselsworth pointed it out to me, I didn't even realize they were using the un-updated version in the SRD. Really a shame as Ultimate was a major step up in content and information.
Also the irony of the Ultimate Psionics store link showing up in the ad banner for that section is high!
therealthom: Regarding the skill math as you mentioned it. Right now Thenji's stats are PF standard and do not yet incorporate your own skill increases. So your wording confuses me. The math as it stands should be easy since it's just vanilla PF Core Rogue...?
Regarding the PF Psionics source: Does anyone know why the d20pfsrd is using the old version of Psionics Unleashed instead of the rules from Ultimate Psionics/Psionics Unleashed Revised? Until Meowselsworth pointed it out to me, I didn't even realize they were using the un-updated version in the SRD. Really a shame as Ultimate was a major step up in content and information.
Also the irony of the Ultimate Psionics store link showing up in the ad banner for that section is high!
therealthom: Regarding the skill math as you mentioned it. Right now Thenji's stats are PF standard and do not yet incorporate your own skill increases. So your wording confuses me. The math as it stands should be easy since it's just vanilla PF Core Rogue...?
D20pfsrd is a volunteer run site. I'd imagine they aren't using Ultimate Psionics for the same reason that I'm not. They don't want to shell out the extra money. I'm sure someone will eventually.
Skill math. Yours was the last sheet I reviewed the other night and I was rushed at lunch today, but I still must be missing something.
Bluff -- 2 ranks, 3 class, 2 race, 2 charisma, 2 deceitful (which I missed earlier), 1 trustworthy. That makes 12, but it was only 10 when I didn't count deceitful before.
Sleight of Hand -- (with the crashes and all I didn't get to this at lunch, but the other night I was just tired, cranky and stupid. Let's see what we come up with now.) 1 rank, 3 class, 3 dex, get's us the 7. What threw me before was the conditional scores. For some reason I read them as circumstantial additions to the 7, not total scores which I am now sure you meant, but I also think you mistyped your labels of the circumstance.
So an extraordinarily small object would be net +11. A dagger would net 9. Baggy clothing would add 2 to your modifier in all three cases.
Just let me know if I've got it right or missed something else.
And you've got 20 total ranks which means that's where
Ah, I see what you're after. If you need me to break down the skill ranks + bonuses, I can definitely do that. Just let me know if that's needed.