|
Okay, i need to make this list now and save it for all of my games. Take 10 and Take 20. What you can use them on and what you can't use them on.
Outside of Combat
Okay to take 10 on
Acrobatics, Appraise, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge Checks, Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Spellcraft, Survival and Swim.
Okay to take 20
Appraise, Craft, Disguise, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, and Survival.
While in Combat
Take 10 on Perception, Sense Motive, and Appraise.
It is not okay to take a 20 while in combat on anything.
There will be times that I will require a roll, these times might mean that we are going into a combat, or that there is something you need to see. At these times, I will state “Please Roll”
|
Sorry to refute the list but, from the linguistics for example which is our current case:
Action: Varies. Deciphering a page of ordinary text takes 1 minute (10 consecutive rounds). Creating a forgery can take anywhere from 1 minute to 1d4 minutes per page. Detecting a forgery using Linguistics takes 1 round of examination per page.
Try Again: Yes.
So what basically Eldon has to do is to sit down and try hard for 20 minutes to take 20.
Note the scenarios already take this into account for this kind of things, such is the reason of a high check in my opinion.
Also, you cannot take 10 for any skill during combat or other dangerous situation by definition (unless you have some special ability that allows for it).
|
|
I am sorry Amsheagar to discuss with you on this topic. It will be ok in a normal campaign, but PFS follows the rulebook without other exceptions than those documented in the PFS Guide and the PFS FAQ.
Plus I could argue your logic very easily saying Linguistics is not a knowledge, otherwise Knowledge (linguistics) will exist, and I think most of us have experienced what interpreting a text means, being more time to reflect on it, more possible to come to a reasonable understanding of the text, plus more than probably helping yourself of resemblances to your language, decoding using similar parts of other texts you know the meaning, and, of course, use of dictionaries.
We can check with the online official in case of doubt.
I am sorry if I took the freedom to take 20 and proceed without double checking with you. But given you have hurried the action on that room, I thought there will be no danger there, and the result of the linguistics was not that important anyway if you were continuing the action.
|
|
I'm sorry, but when a decision on a ruling needs to be made, it is up to the GM to make it. I don't care if you take 20's on stuff that have don't consequences, but stuff that does, including linguistics, I have to say no. Because you can fail a linguistics check.
If you want, you can take Philologist to reroll a failed check, or if you area Halfling, you can take Lettered to never draw false conclusions.
|
Amsheagar is right on this. When a rules question boils up, the GM always has the final call. If the GM were taking huge liberties with the rules as written it would pose a problem, but I don't think he is in this case since sound arguments can be made for both sides. This strikes me as an issue of semantics, in which case we should defer to the GM's ruling.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Howdy!
Hope you guys are doing well.
For clarification, you can take 20 on perception and such, when not in combat - so that generalized list is not completely accurate - some of those checks should be allowed as a Take 20 when not in combat.
Perception is actually the example used in Take 20:
" Common 'take 20' skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps)."
For Linguistics, that one is trickier.
The GM must make the check in private, not the player, as called out in the rules. If the GM's die roll for the player fails the Linguistics check DC, the GM rolls a secret WISDOM check for the PC against a DC of 5. If that WIS check succeeds the PC knows they failed and can try again. If the GM rolled WISDOM check for the PC is failed the PC thinks they succeeded, but is actually given false information by the GM.
So, the PC cannot actually take 20, but should be allowed as many checks to succeed as they like, until they fail the DC5 Wisdom check and think that they succeeded.
(Obviously the GM will have to be trusted to make that check since the rules require it to be made in secret by the GM, for the PC.)
If further clarification is needed, please let us know HERE.
Best wishes,
- Jesse [IronHelixx]
PFS VC, Online Play
EDIT: To clarify, it says in the skill description that you can retry a failed attempt, just FYI.
Okay, i need to make this list now and save it for all of my games. Take 10 and Take 20. What you can use them on and what you can't use them on.
Outside of Combat
Okay to take 10 on
Acrobatics, Appraise, Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Disguise, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge Checks, Linguistics, Perception, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Spellcraft, Survival and Swim.
Okay to take 20
Appraise, Craft, Disguise, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, and Survival.
While in Combat
Take 10 on Perception, Sense Motive, and Appraise.
It is not okay to take a 20 while in combat on anything.
There will be times that I will require a roll, these times might mean that we are going into a combat, or that there is something you need to see. At these times, I will state “Please Roll”
|
|
Thanks a lot IronHelixx for the clarification!
As the skill is 'try again: yes' I will try then to roll 20 checks within spoiler for only the GM to check out and decide on base of the WIS checks if there are fails!
I imagine it is like going over a complicated physics problem and revise it because you know it is very easy you could have made an error.
Ah, Apologies, I had seen the post. Just wanted to know the status on your PC regeneration.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I am able to post from my phone... but my screen on my PC is broken. :( I can replace it when the part comes in... which is a little ways away. I'll see if i can borrow a friends PC tomorrow to download the PDFs again and continue for a few posts... PC will be 100% at the end of next month... But i plan to have an iPad at the end of this month..
|
|
And since it's season seven, there should be some fun new boons to have. And our GM could get a nifty race boon. Also, I'm hoping to level Auriea in between this and our next game, if that messes with things too much, let me know and I can hold off on that, or able to bring in an other level 5 character.
|
|
The rules are clear here, from Taking 20 section, last paragraph, last line.
The online VC has already addressed you about the topic. I am tired of GMing and playing games PbP and locally in all kinds of groups who are playing it like that even out of the PFS campaign and its strict rules interpretation.
I cannot see any reason in the current setting that limits our time. We are even alerted by a charred body.
I will add nothing else, I am not here to discuss with anyone.
|
|
I apologize for stepping on any toes, but as for the taking twenty of perception, as stated by Rule As Written, which is what PFS is supposed to do, is allowed if there is no time penalty.
Taking 10 and Taking 20
A skill check represents an attempt to accomplish some goal, usually while under some sort of time pressure or distraction. Sometimes, though, a character can use a skill under more favorable conditions, increasing the odds of success.Taking 10: When your character is not in immediate danger or distracted, you may choose to take 10. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, calculate your result as if you had rolled a 10. For many routine tasks, taking 10 makes them automatically successful. Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10. In most cases, taking 10 is purely a safety measure—you know (or expect) that an average roll will succeed but fear that a poor roll might fail, so you elect to settle for the average roll (a 10). Taking 10 is especially useful in situations where a particularly high roll wouldn't help.
Taking 20: When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you roll a d20 enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
Ability Checks and Caster Level Checks: The normal take 10 and take 20 rules apply for ability checks. Neither rule applies to concentration checks or caster level checks.
According to the rules, as it would take six to eight minutes just to perceive the trap, not to disable it, the check should be possible without a time constraint. Now, say if the haunt were to re up during said perception check, I would rule that the take 20 couldn't be taken as there is a huge distraction, or if he activated the trap while running across the bridge.
Disable device for traps on the other hand, ehh..... Gonna need a roll.
I still want to finish the scenario though, as it is quite fun!
|
|
Don't worry Eldon.. was also missing Sirs.
Christopher Wasko
Sir Tarquin
125136-3
Sovereign Court
cjwasko@gmail.com
Sheets are here