You are all people who have become sick and tired of the tyranny of the outer planes. If you are evil and die your soul is tortured to pieces. If you are good and die your fate is not much better. You memory is erased which destroys your personhood. Also the gods are annoying as well.
You have all gotten together to plan the overthrow of the other planes and establish the dominance of the material plane. Also make immorality available for all.
The game will be set in the world of Golarion. You are all level 20 with 25 point buy. Gestalt. Standard wealth. I might introduce mythic tier later. All non-3rd party books allowed. You all need your own reasons that you are working together for this goal.
Also the gods in this game are fairly close to omniscient so I suggest having good anti divination protection if you want your plans to have any chance. Vast forces will be arrayed against you.
House rules
Hero points
Marshal characters get 150% wealth 200% if pure marshal no spell-casting.
Two traits, no drawbacks
You cannot talk your way out of every encounter in this game, given how normal rules for CHA skills usually infers that you can talk your way out of anything with a high enough skill. So don't think that can happen.
You may be from nearly any from nearly any world on the Prime Material Plane (Such as Athas, Eberron, Toril, Oerth, Ravenloft, Mystara, Wild Space ect.,). This allows you a MASSIVE amount of leeway in constructing a background. Want to be a mighty Thri-kreen warrior from under the burning sun of Athas? What about a Wild Space-faring awakened Gorilla gunslinger decked out in power armor and wielding a laser cannon? A wizard-king from the land of Mystara? A mermaid priestess of Lathander with an amazing singing voice from Toril? Yeah, you really have a LOT of options for a character! And no, they don't have to be as silly as some of the ones listed here, but trust me, there are definitely some weird individuals. Keep in mind that you are all truly epic individuals.
Open to suggestions
I have no requirement that you be good or evil according to the alignment system. In fact you are rebelling against the tyranny of Objective morality.
The current state of affairs is that everything flows from the positive and negative planes which flows to the elemental planes. Which is then refined in the material plane into souls which are absorbed by that outer planes. You are rebelling against this state of affairs. You for your own reasons (and there are alot of them you could use) want to starve the outer planes out.
Hmm, sounds very neat. Thinking about a paladin who's found an even greater cause than good: free will. (Well, more than that, but I think you get what I mean)
Oooh. I totally want to create a divination wizard from Ravenloft. Time to get to work. Going to be super neutral and probably human.
Unchained Monk it is.
Likely mythic will be necessary since Golarion gods can't be killed except by gods. I imagine there has to be some sort of macguffin which will give us any chance whatsoever of succeeding.
Think I might just try a fighter/barbarian.
You might want to mention if any race restrictions exist, or if custom races are possible.
In this game one way to gain mythic tiers is to be the focus of Divine intervention and overcome it. This works for you because the gods will be unwilling to directly act against you lest you overcome the tribulation and grow more powerful. But if you cause them enough trouble they will act anyway.
I don't think race will be a problem. Hell you could be a drow noble if you want. At this level race does not make that much difference.
Also this is Gestalt in case anyone missed it.
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What if my character doesn't want everyone to be immoral?
Interesting. Always wanted to play a game where you overthrow gods.
What if my character doesn't want everyone to be immoral?
Well you don't want there souls to feed the outer planes. You are free to come up with other solutions. Traps the souls, turn them to stone many things to do.
This looks pretty fun. Wonder what I could do... I'm thinking pure martial class of some kind. Maybe UC Rogue/UC Monk. All the dexterity and sneaking and attacking.
I kinda want to do an eidolon on top of eidolon, by using the twin eidolon capstone of the summoner (like Kiba from Naruto). Probably combining it with barbarian or bloodrager. Would you allow the bloodrider to work with the eidolon instead of it's Feral Mount?
I'm already doing a somewhat similar character in another game though, so maybe not...
Considering a Kineticist/Psychic or Medium or something of that nature. Be a fortune teller that communes with spirits and has them do stuff for him.
Edit: Or a Master of Shapes sort of character. Like Druid/Arcanist, can shift into pretty much any form, and change it on a whim.
Edited
Ooo soo much fun, I'm In, what to make what to make
Played in a lot of high level games, I really really Sugest you use
automatic-bonus-progressio ABP At this level.
The discrepancy can be very marked V Classes, Some class combos can let you get insane levels of AC/Saves compered with others.
Using ABP lets classes that would get passed over have a chance to shine.
I would really like to play the high tech idea, Something from Silver_Mount,
She is Androffa in origin so she do's not get on well with the so called gods of Golarion, in fact she thinks the gods are power mad beings who see to enslave the wills and souls of uneducated less powerful beings. Good bad means nothing, its power they want and the Dino for that power are lesser beings, used up and sucked try. She would wipe all the gods out given a chance.
Thinking Race Android {with the robot template} then for Classes LN Gun Techslinger/ iron-priest L20
She would have the Technologist feat.
Where Its Divine Magic is not magic at all but High tech, force fields, Nano-tech, Blasters etc.
The Kind of thing My PC would say.
"Any technology suitability Advance would be indistinguishable from magic"
Not sure how i missed the gestalt. In that case i will pair wizard with a mind chemist and know all the things. How much benefit would one get from crafting feats?
And i second the awesome Automatic Bonus Progression option.
How much benefit would one get from crafting feats?
Not as much as you are likely hoping. No crafting in backstory. However if you want to try crafting after the games starts go ahead.
I can't fallow the link for Automatic Bonus Progression seems dead.
Links fixed now.
Also here is a good tip, Ban the leadership feat, or let players have it IF they don't have a Animal compaction, Familiar or other etc. And restricted to to Cohort only.
Stops player making small army's to follow them around :)
PS Also GM if you are letting in Everyman Unchained classes and Mystic classes, would you consider also letting in psionics-unleashed
I ask because they derive their powers from their own minds, etc
They would also be good at hiding from the gods.
They have some neat stuff for that and at level 20, would really help a group.
I can drop the Robot idea for an Elan, Psion Telepath, Cryptic grammaton Tech Cleric, that I really like the idea of.
In the vain of Equilibrium
Considering that some classes get more start money than others (to balance martials), throwing in ABP breaks that notion.
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Can we build a Race from the Advanced Race Guide?
I'm thinking Githyanki from Spelljammer who's been all over, from Oerth to Krynn to Toril to Ravenloft to Golarion. But I'd have to build a Githyanki using the ARG.
Or, if the ARG is allowed, I could build a Half-Devil, like Asmodeus's son with Lilith or something, who wants to overthrow Dad and his whole rulership of the Hells. But probably the Githyanki from Sigil, an old member of The Sensates.
I could very easily see a Gestalt Wizard / Summoner (Synthesist). The Summoner may have a couple Levels in Mindchemist & Investigator so, like one of the other applicants, I would know essentially everything.
What do you consider to be martial enough for the 150% wealth?
Would a Kineticist count?
A Paladin?
A Magus?
I'm assuming a Battle Oracle or the like is over the line.
I believe a martial means full BAB. So of those, only Paladin counts.
So Rogues and Monks are stuck with 100%? That seems odd.
I think those two are the exceptions (ninjas as well).
basically anything with a 6+ levels of spells is a not a martial.
Marshal is no spells or full bab.
What if my character doesn't want everyone to be immoral?Well you don't want there souls to feed the outer planes. You are free to come up with other solutions. Traps the souls, turn them to stone many things to do.
Trapping their souls doesn't seem a thing my morally strict character would do.
Marshal is no spells or full bab.
And that applies to both sides of the Gestalt?
So a Sorcerer/Paladin gets 100%, but a Fighter/Barbarian gets 200% and a Rogue/Ranger gets 150%?
Or would the Sorcerer/Paladin get 150% because it has full BaB?
Sorcerer/Paladin gets 100%, but a Fighter/Barbarian gets 200% and a Rogue/Ranger gets 200%
Ranger is full bab and therefor martial. And man is the dividing line arbitrary.
Trapping their souls doesn't seem a thing my morally strict character would do.What if my character doesn't want everyone to be immoral?Well you don't want there souls to feed the outer planes. You are free to come up with other solutions. Traps the souls, turn them to stone many things to do.
In the case of evil people it's that or be tortured to pieces. For the good deading means losing all your memories. Not sure if ether of those are inherently better then having your soul trapped. Pathfinder is a messed up world you are trying to fix it.
Shouldn't a sorc/pally get 150% since pally is martial?
Okay, cool. So, the parameters seem to be:
100% WBL:
-Full casting on either side of the gestalt
-6 level casting on either side of the Gestalt(?)
150% WBL:
-Full BaB OR No magic whatsoever on one side of the gestalt
-Maximum 6 level casting between both sides of the Gestalt(?)
200% WBL:
-Maximum 4 level casting on either side of the Gestalt.
-Full BaB OR no magic whatsoever on one side of the Gestalt
I've been leaning heavily towards high-tech stuff, so I think my final concept before I start working on it will be an Alchemist/Some Tech Based Class.
The main issue is that second part. What's available?
You said any non-3PP is allowed, but you don't seem entirely averse to 3PP things either.
Golemoid or Steamwright from Thunderscape? I can send you the PDF or copy-paste stuff in that case.
Okay, cool. So, the parameters seem to be:
100% WBL:
-Full casting on either side of the gestalt
-6 level casting on either side of the Gestalt(?)150% WBL:
-Full BaB OR No magic whatsoever on one side of the gestalt
-Maximum 6 level casting between both sides of the Gestalt(?)200% WBL:
-Maximum 4 level casting on either side of the Gestalt.
-Full BaB OR no magic whatsoever on one side of the Gestalt
That seems about right. Like most balance measures it is crude.
Also I second the question about building races. You said a Drow Noble is fine, so I'd assume anything up to 41 RP is good if so, assuming we keep it within theme.
I was considering an insectoid race, and Trox doesn't really do it for me.
Sorry if I'm asking too many questions.
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I recommend not allowing a 41 point buy; though I do like race-building.
When the ARG first came out I saw the 41 point Drow Noble and, for fun, built a race with 41 points. It was absolutely ridiculous. One can build a very strong race with 15 points -- if you like going big, make it 20. Or just leave at at 12; that's perfectly solid in my experience.
For custom races 17 RP seems like enough.
High level characters are fun to build but they can be a lot of work :)
There are also a lot of things that need to be discussed before hand as well, so here are some of them.
1: Races. What races are allowed.
1a: Monsters as characters. Are they allowed, and if so how to handle the racial HD/Ability scores.
1b: custom races. Can we create custom races or add traits to the current races.
1c: HPs. Max per level?
1d: Templates. Are they allowed and how to handle the CR increase from them.
1e: Prestige classes, and how you can qualify for them.
2: Items. How much gold, can you craft items, can you combine items, and can you make up your own items. How does multiclassing affect the gold multiplier?
3: Racial limitations or alignment limitations.
4: Gun rarity and Tech availability.
5: some specific spells. Certain spells like wish/miracle or timestop or interplanetary teleport/plane shift or Create Demiplane, to name a few.
6: Leadership feat. Autobanned?
6a: Minions, cohorts, animal companions, familiars, summons and mounts. Any specific rules on these?
7: Deities. Golarion deities I would presume.
7a: Divine classes such as clerics or paladins. Do we get the help from the gods if we are fighting against the gods? Does a paladin auto-fail for challenging their might? Can a cleric worship an ideal to get around this problem?
8: Expected power level? This is a hard one to answer. Very powerful, maxed characters, or flavourful MAD characters? for instance.
Those are the ones I could think of off the top of my head :)
Sorry for all the questions, but it is significantly better to get these out of the way before people start building up their submissions and having the answers scattered throughout the recruitment thread, or worse, have us assume them but you not intend them.
Edit: More :)
9: Unchained classes? Alternate classes, Occult Classes?
10: Pregame skill checks.
11: Age. You state that we are either searching for immortality or have attained immortality. Can we start at an older age? Do we just ignore the aging chart?
For custom races 17 RP seems like enough.
Sounds good. A tiny bit over the Aasimar, so plenty.
41 would've been fun to play with though. Have ALL of the special senses.
Edit: Hey! Thri-Kreen were in Spelljammer, didn't know that. Makes my job easier, I don't need to come up with appearance or culture. Be a space version of the ones that like to modify themselves.
Edit 2: Xixchil, that's the name.
As for my character, my first and main idea is to try and build the "perfect human."
My insperation came from Helck where he is basically the the perfect example of a human being. To create him I am thinking of Alchemist 20 with the True Mutagen discovery granting him +8 to all physical stats, and add on a Belt of Physical Perfection to grant him a total of +14 to all physical stats.
Then I would probably go Monk for the other side of the gestalt, again building up the image of the "Perfect Human."
He would also fight with his fists (naturally), walk around shirtless and wear a big red cape :)
Some things I still have to decide on are:
1: Alchemist archetype. Internal looks like the one I would chose, but maybe Ragechemist if I can get my Will save high enough.
2: Monk archetype or to go Unchained Monk. I have not yet looked at the unchained monk, but I hear that if you go Unchained you cannot take any archetypes. Another thing I want to take are Style feats as I want to punch things into submission :) As such, Master of Many styles might be the Archetype I go with.
3: Do I want to replace 1 or 2 of the last monk levels with something else? I am thinking of 1 level of Master Chymest so that maintaining my perfect form is natural and permenant instead of having to drink an extract every day.
OR 2 levels for the Eternal Template as my form of "immortality." He is the perfect human, and the perfect human can be nothing more and nothing less.
Alright that is what I have at the moment, time to start brainstorming XD
Just want to make sure. Being an Alchemist/Monk would mean I gain access to the 1.5x wealth right?
What would you price not requiring sleep at for a race?
Or would the 2 RP for Elven Immunities (immune to magic sleep) be sufficient for the secondary benefit (it seems so n the original Thri-Kreen stats; Not needing to sleep isn't an explicit racial ability)?
Likewise, how would you price a +30 to Jump? "Leap (Ex): Thri-kreen are natural jumpers. They have a +30 racial bonus on Jump checks."
That would be equivalent to a Constant Jump spell.
For 2 RP I could get it at-will. Should it cost 3? Though some racial abilities get Constant Nondetection plus some other SLAs for only 2 RP.
I'll have to drop a BUNCH of abilities, looks like Thri-Kreen are beyond impossible to build. It looks like I need about 30 RP to make one. Mostly because Multi-Armed is 8 RP by itself.
Can I drop that to 4 if they function like an Alchemist's Vestigial Arms Discovery (no extra attacks in combat)?
Settled on a Druid/Monk to punch hard enough to shatter universes.
A Half Orc from Eberron.
Wowzers! Just trying to get the Monk side of the Gestalt down is going to be mind numbing!
First, normal monk or unchained.
Normal Monk, do I go for MoMS or a different archetype. Then tack on Qinggong.
There is only 35 different Monk archetypes... And since I am thinking of MoMS I get to choose any style feats I want! Wait, there is only 38 different styles to choose from, each with 3 feats... Time to start reading!
Oh ya, then I can tack on Qinggong for free, which is only about a dozen or so abilities that you can swap for a list that is 78 abilities long (I counted)...
Maybe I should go for Unchained instead? Ya that would probably be simpler...
quickly glances over the Unchained Monk...
Yay more options T^T
Still here, still planning on a paladin. Considering gestalting with bloodrager, may choose something else though. Haven't decided yet.
EDIT: A valid question: how would a paladin's smite evil work in this, what with alignment being a little less solid? Or is that just for PCs? If we're going to be doing a lot of fighting with things that are considered "good" then smite evil will be kind of worthless for me. Any way I could change it out for a more generic smite, or something like the cavalier's challenge ability, or just have it work on more stuff?
High level characters are fun to build but they can be a lot of work :)
There are also a lot of things that need to be discussed before hand as well, so here are some of them.
1: Races. What races are allowed.
1a: Monsters as characters. Are they allowed, and if so how to handle the racial HD/Ability scores.
1b: custom races. Can we create custom races or add traits to the current races.
1c: HPs. Max per level?
1d: Templates. Are they allowed and how to handle the CR increase from them.
1e: Prestige classes, and how you can qualify for them.
2: Items. How much gold, can you craft items, can you combine items, and can you make up your own items. How does multiclassing affect the gold multiplier?
3: Racial limitations or alignment limitations.
4: Gun rarity and Tech availability.
5: some specific spells. Certain spells like wish/miracle or timestop or interplanetary teleport/plane shift or Create Demiplane, to name a few.
6: Leadership feat. Autobanned?
6a: Minions, cohorts, animal companions, familiars, summons and mounts. Any specific rules on these?
7: Deities. Golarion deities I would presume.
7a: Divine classes such as clerics or paladins. Do we get the help from the gods if we are fighting against the gods? Does a paladin auto-fail for challenging their might? Can a cleric worship an ideal to get around this problem?
8: Expected power...
Thank you for the good questions.
1a. Monsters are allowed. In fact after thinking about it. Every one is allow 2 CR worth of template (subject to review).
1b. You are allowed custom race, but of course that will require backstory.
1c. HP is max per level.
1d. As said before you are all allowed 2 CR worth of template (subject to review).
1e. You must qualify for Prestige class all on one side.
2.If I allowed pre-crafting then the increased good for marshal would be completely overshadowed.
3. Alignment limitations do not apply to any of you as far as I am considered none of you have any alignment.
4.Guns are available, but the most advanced stuff is found on other planets.
5.Miracle will be very limited without a god to back you up. As for the others why would they be a problem?
6. I actually have no problem with leadership. However keep in mind that any cohort or followers that are not well protected from divination are leaks and likely liabilities.
6a. They will be normal and single classed and the hp will be HD/2 +1 every level.
7. Golarion Deities.
7a. You must come with a version of the class that does not have the backing of a God or your power is not going to last long!
8. Expected power level High! You are trying to fight they outer planes. Quite frankly the odds against you are overwhelming. I would rather you all be powerful enough that this game does not end very quickly.
9. I have not read any of those, but they should be alright.
10. Should be fine.
11. Feel free to be any age you want. Keep in mind that if you are to have any chance of winning you don't want to be dieing of old age. Also don't expect your soul to have an easy time of it if you do Gods can hold a grudge.
What would you price not requiring sleep at for a race?
Or would the 2 RP for Elven Immunities (immune to magic sleep) be sufficient for the secondary benefit (it seems so n the original Thri-Kreen stats; Not needing to sleep isn't an explicit racial ability)?
Likewise, how would you price a +30 to Jump? "Leap (Ex): Thri-kreen are natural jumpers. They have a +30 racial bonus on Jump checks."
That would be equivalent to a Constant Jump spell.
For 2 RP I could get it at-will. Should it cost 3? Though some racial abilities get Constant Nondetection plus some other SLAs for only 2 RP.
I'll have to drop a BUNCH of abilities, looks like Thri-Kreen are beyond impossible to build. It looks like I need about 30 RP to make one. Mostly because Multi-Armed is 8 RP by itself.
Can I drop that to 4 if they function like an Alchemist's Vestigial Arms Discovery (no extra attacks in combat)?
1 rp for every 3 hours you don't need to sleep.
1 rp for +9 jump stack-able. There is an advantage to being able to do it without magic
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@Gobo Horde, good to see you again :), yep I asked some of the same things, I think we can save some time here.
Powergaming DM, Its not the same game set-up but I highly recommend you read some of the following recruitment game thread.
Myths And Legends Heroes Of Golarion
A lot of what will need to be covered here will was talked in depth about there. If Money limit and not ARG [Witch is fine by the way, just be warned there will be a lot of power range even with both at 20th]
Gobo Horde, myself and a few others on here, have gone through building for high level games. This kind of thread will pull in players that have the game ware with all and can put the time in to make a Level 20 X2 class PC.
As posted I will be going with a High tech PC,
I just in case you missed the edit to my last post Powergaming DM
GM if you are letting in Everyman Unchained classes and Mystic classes, would you consider also letting in psionics-unleashed
I ask because they derive their powers from their own minds, etc
They would also be good at hiding from the gods.
They have some neat stuff for that and at level 20, would really help a group.I can drop the Robot idea for an Elan, Psion Telepath, Cryptic grammaton Tech Cleric, that I really like the idea of.
In the vain of Equilibrium
So with Sundakan going high tech as well you could have two laser/blaser shooting PCs. If no Psionics and Elans
Then as posted Ill be making a High tech Android/Robot Iron Priest/techslingerO O O Just had a think!... Soul Knife/Psion Telepath = Jedi O man please let in Psionics, I want to make a Jedi like PC. Silly idea
I've been leaning heavily towards high-tech stuff, so I think my final concept before I start working on it will be an Alchemist/Some Tech Based Class.
The main issue is that second part. What's available?
You said any non-3PP is allowed, but you don't seem entirely averse to 3PP things either.
Golemoid or Steamwright from Thunderscape? I can send you the PDF or copy-paste stuff in that case.
Machinesmith seems Ok. I do sort of like the idea of high tech. Psionics is fine too.
EDIT: A valid question: how would a paladin's smite evil work in this, what with alignment being a little less solid? Or is that just for PCs? If we're going to be doing a lot of fighting with things that are considered "good" then smite evil will be kind of worthless for me. Any way I could change it out for a more generic smite, or something like the cavalier's challenge ability, or just have it work on more stuff?
It works against things that the game says are evil. You will be fighting both good, evil and neutral outsiders. You are likely to fight the evil and neutral outsiders more often because the neutral have many subtypes dedicated to defending the status quo and evil has more available manpower.
Oh one more house rule that I should have remembered earlier. Power attack is free. Also the common feat taxes like combat expertise and point blank shot are waved.
YES YES Thank you GM,
Will me making a Elan or Synthetic race Psion Telepath/ Something High tech. I am going to have her from another world, Planetary ported to the world. She is from a high tech space bound race and hates the very idea of beings mascaraing around small back water worlds as gods. She is an Atheist believing in the the scientific method.
"Gods! humm. Your gods are not gods, just because they have powers beyond you, that do's not make them god, Never mistake god like for god. If they where useful they could help you free you, lift you out of darkness and your cruel lives, make this place a utopia, But they will not do that, you want to know why? they will not because they NEED you to feed on. Your belief, you life force, your very beings, feeds them power, they such it up and lord it over you, faiths and religions made up of lies all to keep you at slaves in ignorance. Good, bad lawful chaotic its all the same, all just kinds of menu at the buffet of Ignorance."