How 'bout Ozil who has a whopping +23 to attack and does, ah Hem, 2d10 -2 damage on a hit.
Of course, mostly he's just a Wizard with ( I really hope) a great defense.
But I was pretty sure when I was building the PC that I would be weaker than any of the others.
How are you guys plane shifting?
In my case the hard way.
In others, we have like a bunch of full arcane casters right?
When you say the hard way you mean hitch a ride with someone else? This is a detached demiplane. Who did you ride with?
We've decided that Ozil already knows Ven'atorix (recent alliance from Cheliax) and Alexander Torov (from reputation in Ravenloft) so Alexander Torov can come with me when I Plane Shift -- Ven'atorix would give me "directions" to his Plane, I assume, so I don't get lost.
Anyone else that might know me from Greyhawk, Krynn, Toril, Ravenloft or Sigil -- or Cheliax -- could come with me.
I took Expanded Knowledge to nab Planar Travel.
Level 5 power that she has, Planar Travel.
When you say the hard way you mean hitch a ride with someone else? This is a detached demiplane. Who did you ride with?
Cohort who can alter reality for planar travel.
Well, actual Plane Shift, of course.
Ok lots of reserch later I now have a good beed on a plan that could work but the GM would have to OK some META background stuff
Where is Ozil?
Which Ozil?
- Mesut Ozil is in North London getting ready to murderhobo Stoke City with the rest of Arsenal this Sunday.
- I'm in South Florida praying for Arsenal to murderhobo Stoke City this Sunday. Oh, and I post every day and lurk throughout.
.
I think we could all give a brief post about what our plans are and then pick one or merge some....
The plan I proposed way back when the DM asked in Recruitment was threefold; we talked about it then:
1) Start by picking one Alignment to focus on (NE for example) because if we go for several we not only have an enormous elephant to swallow right away but also piss off all the deities right away. Anyway, pick one and find a way to disrupt the mortal souls from going to that Outer Plane upon death.
2 Lay a trail of evidence indicating an enemy of that Alignment's Outer Planar deities is responsible, CE Demon Lords, for example. That way the NE deities (hopefully) engage in a retaliatory war against the Demons and miss us completely, allowing us to fly under the radar.
3) Go to heavily Aligned areas of The Material Plane of said Alignment and start our "Stop worshiping gods" arguments (again, disguising ourselves to lay false evidence) so that when the mortals die they are reincarnated (or something) back in their world WITH knowledge of their former lives -- they can continue living the only existence they've ever known. Why give up your identity and go off to some unknown existence in the Outer Planes and live a torturous "life" as a Lemure or something?
How come you haven't posted in gameplay?
Torov is right Ozil, we have moved that conversation over to game play to be done in charterer or it may come over a little meta gamei and as PCs are taking it over now, lets put it in the back of the net there.
Oh, Gameplay is Up?!?
Sorry, I had no idea.
haha, shake a leg mate
Really sorry guys, I'm be catching up on gameplay today, busy at work as well.
@W E Ray -> PM
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Sorry for so many posts tonight guys -- we had a new campaign scheduled to start tonight in Greyhawk but the DM had to cancel last minute to watch his kids. Which left me with nothing to do on a Friday night except watch my beloved Timberwolves get smoked by those bastids in Oklahoma City and start making up for the time I missed in the Gameplay thread in this campaign.
I guess I should also do some prep work for my Absalom campaign tomorrow night -- gonna torture some PCs in The Precipice Quarter.
So here is a question, just how we going to play this, I think at our level where will be a lot of story telling over direct rolls and such.
we will be doing a lot of behind scenes.
I've assumed the DM has an idea about that -- and the makeup of the cosmology: Great Wheel or Pathfinder or homebrew mix.
We've gone under the assumption that gods get their power from souls as shown in FR (especially with the god Finder) and later in the 3.5 FCII.
I've used Pathfinder names such as Axis and Abaddon for our plans but we've also been using Dark Sun, Sigil, and Ravenloft among others.
I'm sure the DM will let us know when he feels it's appropriate how the multiverse in this campaign is designed -- especially if (when) it's different from our assumption.
Yeah I've been dropping names left and right.
Thing is, where Arkon comes from the existence of the gods are very much in question. There are churches and gods but the major religion such as it is involves worshipping a massive silver flame wherein a Raksasha and couatl fought.
Arkon has leadership incidentally from his one template. You can count mostly fey and orcs among his followers.
I Golarian the gods don't get there pwoer from worshipers. However due to certain treaties all the gods intents upon the material have to be done through them. That's to prevent the devastation that a conflict among gods would create.
so the whole point that it would weaken the gods only really applies if they function like they do in FR.
Heck even in FR it doesn't apply to all the gods. It only does so because AO has deemed it such and it doesn't apply to the god of earth and timelessness.
For Sal Da Qill her makers where form the Technologically advanced world of Androffa, a bunch of massive star ships with AI's at god level left that world some 60,000 years ago, joining a greater group out in the cosmos. What is key to her is that with in pathfinder the 'Divinity' showed up on Androffa, dropping healers and wise linked to gods into nation states and it all went very bad as a scientific culture tried its best to understand god-lings sent to demand worship of 'Divinity' when the AI Minds, Androids and Androffa humans told them in no uncertain terms to go **** themselves, they wasted the planet and repopulated with lower beings that WOULD do there bedding. Needless to say those IA ship minds felt that was a bit off and spent the time after that working where every they can to **** 'Divinity' up.
This is a pathfinder setting and has the most NOT all god-likes seeking some from of faith linked to them.
We are making big jumps here but as the GM has no really filled things out yet, the game may have hit a stall point until we get feed back.
I have been thinking of ways we as 20th can play this, so the players have a good time and can show off what they can do.
My feeling is it would be cool if we all set off to pick a place to start and Anti-Godlike faith and report back telling how that went.
mean some nice writing from us and thinking of ways to form our anti god-like cults. PbP is one of the few game platforms where we can do that with ease.
I am using pathfinder. Not Dark Sun, Sigil or Ravenloft, but if you want to bring in an element from them feel free.
So the question I've been dreading to ask,... must we start by trying to kill Pharasma?!?
GM i think that our pcs have spent a lot of time researching how to take on the gods, could you let us know if the are powered by souls and can our plan work?
So the question I've been dreading to ask,... must we start by trying to kill Pharasma?!?
Well, that would make everything else easy by comparison.
Word of Jacobs says she's the most powerful deity.
Seriously though, why would we be going with "the gods are meaningless on a cosmic scale, black holes are the big danger"? If that's the case, what are we even doing here?
The entire point of this campaign is that the gods have massive influence over the entire universe/multiverse (Golarion, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, etc.), and we want to put a stop to it.
If that's not true the entire campaign plot is moot.
Yeah, not really sure why you brought up the "monsters in the stars" angle...it doesn't make sense.
As to Pharasma, are you are we couldn't try to kill her?
It'd be super fun!
GM i think that our pcs have spent a lot of time researching how to take on the gods, could you let us know if the are powered by souls and can our plan work?
I said that in the beginning.
Seriously though, why would we be going with "the gods are meaningless on a cosmic scale, black holes are the big danger"? If that's the case, what are we even doing here?
Cosmology is like that, sorry but I wanted to being up a point about scale.
The entire point of this campaign is that the gods have massive influence over the entire universe/multiverse (Golarion, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, etc.), and we want to put a stop to it.
If that's not true the entire campaign plot is moot.
Yeah, not really sure why you brought up the "monsters in the stars" angle...it doesn't make sense.
Just because the Local gods are not the biggest fish in the tank, do's not moot the game. They still have local power over souls, life and death. Its just the PCs now know there is more out there, a bigger game table, with if they look for it help if they can find it.
I wanted to expand the playing field. What you asking is that we limit what we can do to just us, with nothing bigger to be espied to.
How you get that help and what it will do I have no idea.
But some may come once we get the ball rolling.
why do this, well logically what she said was true. Think about it, they have local power only but its still a level of oppressive power.out on the void, yes, the greater outer gods. O they may SAY they have power over the whole cosmos but they say a lot of things that are not true, why? to keep faith going thats way, who's going to follow a god that says, "I'm the God of ALL! well when I say all I mean the local cosmological systems and a few worlds." no they want to have good PR so they Jump the Shark and the faithful suck it up. If we want to form a counter faith we need to know things the gods what to hide.
But lets take your view, of they are to top of the pile. If they ARE ubiquitous cosmos wide, there would be a version of each god on Billions upon billions of worlds, so what gos off on one little mud ball of a world counting to count for an infinitesimal part of the whole. Who many world have a cosmos ending Beasty at it core and on some things would have gone bad, if not then nothing CAN be changed and where back to pointless.
My PC has the view the very much is a point, to free the enslaved, small pocket or cosmos wide, there is a morality behind this. Free the enslaved pocket of humanity/other races being lorded over by a group of Amoral duplicitous a-holes playing at gods.
But this dos not exclude the local gods relatively portraying themselves as cosmically significant and to the locals they may well be, pulling worlds even systems into pocket Dimensions just as the players are sitting in one now. A god powered Demi-plan may be a lot bigger, and linked.
I am just trying to place some logic with in a frame work.
Just wanted to add, the name the game is
"Dawn of the material plane"
The world view for the setting I have offered can fit in with both views of the gods local.
They could have control of a kind of world/system sized Demi-plane that is 'Nested' in the prime plane. From the inside it looks like the cosmos as a whole can be changed, as the relative view out works V a filter of perspective crafted by the gods who control that world/system sized Demi-plane. But there is a greater prime plane with 10000s of pocket realms 'Nested'.
My feeling is that some gods can PULL there 'Nested' worlds unto a twisted local from of physics and rules, where all bets of are off.
But to push one such a 'Nested' world/s back fully into the prime would lock them to the grater rules of the prime.
Magic is not real, not for us in the real world, its something that is made up for the story's we like to tell each other.
But of beings of a power level like a god, they can warp the local Physics and natural rules so that magic and anything is possible with in their area of influence.
If you feel as players you want your gods to have control over the greater cosmos, then I will have to go with the collective view on this for the story we seek to tell, but it would be nice to have a bigger picture to expand into. That is all I was offering.
Yours
Johnny Panic.
Ok going to make her shut up now. Sorry for the over reach guys.
Just need to take a back step, was getting into this way to much.
Yes, everyone here understands basic cosmology. The universe is big.
That's why (in this scenario) a small group of nigh-omnipotent creatures having control over not only THIS plane, but total control over other planes of existence that are EVEN LARGER (The Abyss alone being potentially hundreds of times larger than the Material) is such a big problem.
The GM already said we're going with Golarion cosmology. That means the gods (the true ones, not the demigods and other god-likes) are not just "local", they're universal.
Souls from Earth get judged by Pharasma the same as ones from Golarion, or Triaxus (or Greyhawk, Athas, Forgotten Realms, Eberron, etc.). Hell, the Egyptian gods have a strong presence on Golarion still, despite being nearly forgotten on Earth, still carrying out their cosmic roles.
That IS the big picture.
The universe is ENORMOUS.
And we're challenging beings that have not only conquered that whole endless expanse...but countless others like it.
That's the kind of scale we're working on.
I can see how you would want that, its a simplistic way of pushing all but a very basic idea of one belief systems gods on to the cosmos.
But that is misrepresenting The ENORMOUS universe, hear me out, before you dismiss what I am saying.
How about we look at it as 'Pantheon Beliefs' each having areas in the Multiverse. Beings that reach a power level to be called Gods, do so locally and and warp reality. They have zones of control, Lands, continents, worlds, systems etc. This then lets us have a richer view of how god-likes inter play, in the ENORMOUS Multiverse. Over lapping 'Pantheon Beliefs' dos allow each to have there own setting.
System Lords:
My view is that the gods we are dealing with are like stargates System Lords, the locals call them gods, they have a far reach but there one of may kinds of gods of greater or lessor forms in a reach and complex cosmos. If you want to cut that down to Just them, then we taking away a few followers on a few worlds want do much, they will have 1000s of other worlds to pull power form. But of we can get shift in thinking for the local 'Pantheon' then we can force them out one systems/realm at a time. Thing of the lady of Pain in SIGIL, any god that shows up in the Ladys realm is toast. They have no power there.
My PC:
My PC is from Androffa, Androffa also suffered an ancient cataclysm. Compared to Earthfall, Androffa's apocalypse led not to a dark age and the ascension of mortals to godhood, but rather the rise of technology and widespread disbelief in all gods. Later after one of its star craft crashed on Golarion, the Golarion gods and others forms of 'Divinity' showed up and attacked it. But some got away, they banded with others and still seek to brake the hold of the god-likes. And that is what they are. They FORCED Divinity Androffa, Souls before then did no Exist. No judged by Pharasma or any other god like being.
Getting rid of gods:
The only thing we need is that gods have a means to power there divinity. Most V souls but not all. In this way we just fine that means and remove access to it or destroy it.
Earth:
Also where dos it says souls from EARTH get judged by Pharasma? Was that something you added, cus I have never seen that printed in cannon anywhere. My thinking is Paizo as a business would never print that. Way to much chance of Alienating any customer with faith. But a Multiverse Earth, that would be fine. Alt-Earth and of thing.
I'm not touching the rest of that because that's your own personal stuff.
Earth:
Also where dos it says souls from EARTH get judged by Pharasma? Was that something you added, cus I have never seen that printed in cannon anywhere. My thinking is Paizo as a business would never print that. Way to much chance of Alienating any customer with faith. But a Multiverse Earth, that would be fine. Alt-Earth and of thing.
The description of the Boneyard mentions that all souls from the Material Plane (which Earth is a part of) get judged by Pharasma.
The existence of multiple gods in the same universe as Earth would already "alienate" anyone sensitive enough to care, so it's not exactly a stretch.
Nar I don't buy that leap at all, I can see a local god, with in a system saying that, but a few says talking to a ghost from a technological world would have advanced tech on Golarion or any world.
You would have Knowledge bleed all over the place. So now you have to fix that and things get even more messy than my solution.
Also its an Alt earth where the gods or earth are real, even baba Yaga.
So that again gets us back to the Multiverse idea.
You know if we where playing AMBER RPG or Lords of Gossamer and Shadow RPG this would be so much simpler.
...It's not a leap. It's literally what the description of the Plane says.
Likewise: "Earth is a planet in a galaxy far from Golarion, yet similar in many ways."
Sundakan that is a great find, reading it now, my brain is melting,
But I like this comment.
I like this comment. "If you think Rasputin in Paizo Books represents IRL Rasputin, you need to walk away from the gaming table for a moment. It's "Earth" but clearly an alternate reality. Don't think too hard about it."
But James do's say,
"Earth is a planet in a galaxy far from Golarion, yet similar in many ways."
Taken wee bit out of context. IN his next post he says
How-are-Earth-and-Golarion-in-the-same-universe#86
"Not quite true. Just because we haven't talked about "alternate material planes" yet in print doesn't mean they don't exist. But yeah, that's irrelevant to this discussion, because Golarion and the Earth presented in Rasputin Must Die are indeed in the same universe/Material Plane."
Hence Multiverse, taken that they talk of alt Earths and Alt Rasputin (who can do magic) and "alternate material planes" then we can take that as our starting point. But as we need to fix just one prime plane the one Our PCs are in with its Alt Earth etc then the other planes are linked just fine.
But no where on that thread dos it say ALL souls the cosmos over go to one local god.
Pathfinder as is a Derivative from, nothing wrong with that, but it has Cthulhu, masses of Tolkien, Jack Vance and so much more. Great older god, bigger gods. For all that to fit in one basket there is a lot of wibbly wobbly Mythos.
OK I PM'ed James with the simple question
Q: Do the souls from EARTH get judged by Pharasma?
My hope is he will let me know.
:)
Still not getting why, in a game where the advertised goal was "slay/defeat all the Golarion gods", you don't want to, and instead focus on whatever else may be out there.
We aren't here to stop black holes or giant space worms or whatever, we're here to match our way through the daemonic hordes of Abaddon, kill all the Horsemen, and then plume a sword through the eye of the Oineodaemon.
And then march on Hell, or Heaven, or wherever else we choose to go.
In the words of Ven,
"All this trickery and discussion bores me. Let's get a fight started!"
Because there Local and our problem, that is all we really need to know.
I made the mistake of expanding it a wee bit to much. I am sorry guys for that. Bad Panic, bad.
I asked James and waiting on what he says.
My feeling is that you could say that there is a Metaphysical cosmological constant that souls pass on v Judgment, that this constant has a vast number of names and local personifications. On Golarion its taken the form of Pharasma, on earth another form. In fact more than one, other worlds other forms.
So our fight is in fact to change that Metaphysical cosmological constant with a new form, or even remove the need for it.
The Voice of the Pathfinder god has spoken V PM, and interesting it is to.
"Pharasma judges all souls in the multiverse. Earth is in the multiverse. Therefore, yes, she judges souls from Earth."
"At least, that's canon for Golarion as published. How it works in your game is up to your GM. And how it works in real life is unlikely to ever be discovered."
So there you have it from James Jacobs the Creative Director himself.
I'm wrong about Pharasma judges all souls [Pathfinder Earth and other worlds] but right there is a pathfinder multiverse.
What form that takes is up to the GM if there is one at all.
His game his rules.
So with this and the GMs post, lets go get Pharasma!
Cool. That's pretty much what the gm just said anyway.
I have to admit I don't really see a way to "get" Pharasma, but if sone else has an idea?
Yeaaaaah...like I said earlier, Pharasma is canonically the most powerful deity. That is a bad place to start for "mere" level 20 characters.
The "Blame Abaddon for stealing too many souls" idea seems to have the most merit right now.
I'll go with that, because he also said something very interesting.
On the Ask James thread, when I posted there as well. Not a good Idea by the way to PM and post on thread, Me bad, will not be doing that again.
"Other worlds may have different deities of death and whatnot, but in canonical Golarion... Pharasma's the one who judges all the souls themselves when they reach the Boneyard."
Which is kind of logical, and makes it so that local pantheons of gods then work with greater gods, Pharasma be a rocking hard Greater god. So the gods of each system rule and feed into some Uber powerful gods at a Cosmic [Pathfinder multiverse level.
So "Blame Abaddon for stealing too many souls" it is then.
Check this out I just found.
LINK HERE
A test of the starstone module is probably the most obvious epic-level adventure we could do for Golarion. If (when) we do this adventure, there's a VERY GOOD chance that it'll involve some sort of additional storyline over and above "So the PCs want to become gods?" but will also ultimately give the GM and the players the chance to do that; to have their PCs become deities after they handle the menace facing the Starstone Cathedral or whatever.
But yeah... this is still quite a long way off. I'd love to do something with this eventually, but we've got a lot of other things to do first. Like, say, figure out how epic-level play works.
We could as some one said, try the test, we could set out to seek Mythic state so as to be ready. Starting at 20th that is about the best way to go next, then when we feel we are ready take the test.
GM you have got to post more than this, we are in the Dark here.
Could we have some feed back please longer than 2 lines.
I agree. A game like this needs HEAVY GM presence,especially at the start. Once per day posting. We're kinda grinding around in circles right now with no direction.