I'm sorry. I was sort of hoping that you guys. Would have some ideas. If you try for anything I will put the quest in front of you. But at this level it is a huge sandbox.
If you want to try and go down to hell and steal Asmodeus's contract I can do that. If you want to try and start a new religion I can do that to as long as you give me specific actions that you take.
I can put the tracks in front of you no matter where you go so long as you tell me which direction.
I think the plan is to engineer some kind of fake Daemon uprising with them trying to steal more souls from other Planes.
So, I guess a good start for us is going to Abaddon.
Can you take us there and give us the current political state of the area? What's a Daemon with a lot of influence besides the horsemen?
Well, we've got the ideas -- a huge sandbox is part of the appeal for this game.
The trickiness is that we're completely in territory of DM purview. It's not so much a need for "tracks" but of guidance.
It seems like a predominate idea is this new "religion" to keep souls from going to the Outer Planes, starting with Abaddon, and blaming it on the Demons so we don't get the wrath of Charon on us.
So,....
Tell us where we would know where to go to start that. A brief setting description.
Or tell us something about how Souls go from The Prime to the Outer Planes so we can digest that info.
Or tell us that we *think* that in order to prevent souls from leaving the Material that we'd have to, um,.... pass the test of the Starstone?; talk to or trick Pharasma?; cast a few carefully worded Wish spells?
Give some info that our characters would know so we can talk about how to try.
Ooooh, if we decide to do the Starstone test, Ven calls going first!
I'd love to get me some of those god powers.
I promise I wouldn't require worship! I'd be a good god.
Edit: actually, the more I think about it, the more I want to do it. It seems like the perfect idea, for Ven at least.
"In order to kill the gods, you must first become one."
He honestly wouldn't fall into the "have your own plane and capture souls" thing, instead choosing to carve out a land for himself (probably in Ustalav, "Hey, Tar Baphon? Hello!") and his undead armies.
Side note: can you use Animate Dead on outsiders? Daemonic zombies/skeletons sounds hella cool.
Yep, I agree "a huge sandbox is part of the appeal for this game but its tricky, as we all have ideas we need common ground in the Sand box, or one pushes one way and the others say, old on. We back track and soon that is all we keep doing.
I for one would like my PC with the rest to try the Starstone test, The whole lot of us at once, that would be so epic** but that can come after we get our new faith/fake Daemon uprising on Abaddon, so you have to let us know what's going on there. Ozil has Skill Number is the 60/70+ he will know, but we as players don't [As has been said before.] We are really reliant on you to sheered us in the way our PCs would know to go.
Hope you get where we are coming from GM, a heads up and we can get started.
**My idea is, come out the other end Demi-god mythic power level as an idea in place of Epic, of which Pathfinder is short on, that would set us up for some lower god-like bashing later, As for what she would be as a God-like, well the 1st AI god for one, self powered, no souls needed.
She would join the ranks of the God-like AIs that made her, but one step on. Her realm would be inhabited by Advanced AIs/Drones/Androids/Elans/Constructs the mechanical soulless. Would be a load of fun to make later.
I think the plan is to engineer some kind of fake Daemon uprising with them trying to steal more souls from other Planes.
So, I guess a good start for us is going to Abaddon.
Can you take us there and give us the current political state of the area? What's a Daemon with a lot of influence besides the horsemen?
Charon is fairly important. There are also many Daemon fighting each other. It is not like hell where an organizational chart from 500 years ago is likely to be complete and up to date. Most down't last on top for more then 100 years or so. It is said that even some of the horsemen have been quietly replaced from time to time on the down low.
Is it possible for an outsider to challenge a Horseman, defeat him/her, and then become the Horseman?
Because I want to kill Szuriel and take her place as Horseman of War. That'd be sick.
I like your thinking V
Charon is fairly important. There are also many Daemon fighting each other. It is not like hell where an organizational chart from 500 years ago is likely to be complete and up to date. Most down't last on top for more then 100 years or so. It is said that even some of the horsemen have been quietly replaced from time to time on the down low.I think the plan is to engineer some kind of fake Daemon uprising with them trying to steal more souls from other Planes.
So, I guess a good start for us is going to Abaddon.
Can you take us there and give us the current political state of the area? What's a Daemon with a lot of influence besides the horsemen?
Right. Hence why I asked for the CURRENT political state. =p
If the answer is "You need to ask around" that's cool too. But Charon might be a good place to start.
So we kill him, replace him or take him over?
Okay, new plan guys.
We go get mythic-powered, possibly on god-levels of things, from the Starstone Cathedral (Because, really. Isn't that what this game is all about? Plus, I want to land on the bridge to the cathedral on my skeletal champion white dragon).
Next, we go to Abaddon, and start killing enough of Szuriel's minions and generals that she decides to meet us in the field, where I challenge her for her position, one on one.
I obviously defeat her (because, heroes?) and take her place. Abaddon is ours, as we are able to defeat the rest of the Horsemen with our new daemonic undead-bolstered forces.
From there, we use the remaining daemons to start our conspiracy, as we actively encourage daemons to attack the River of Souls that is guarded by a collective army of outsiders from all the realms. Perhaps it works, perhaps it doesn't. The war that results is what we're after.
Thoughts?
NOW THAT'S A PLAN!
It has my vote, Just because I want her to show up looking like this.
Also it give the GM a great setting to test each of our PCs individual and as a group and find out of they are worthy. IF we are going to bring in a new Epoch I can think of now better Epic/Mythic way to start.
I was kinda hoping we'd get a chance to play with our PCs as they are now before piling on more stuff.
O I have no doubt there will be obstacles placed in our way before we even get to the Starstone Cathedral, if it was easy it would not be fun.
I still reckon we should create some chaos with the deamons, start a little trouble for them first. If i'm outvoted then ok.
But it should be decided in gameplay perhaps.
So much for a low profile.
I support going after a particular NE Power first (now that it looks as though we've settled on starting with Abaddon) and Szuriel is a good first choice. Now we've narrowed it down.
I don't know whether Ozil would know where in Abaddon to go to take on just Szuriel's armies, then Szuriel, -- and what makes up Szuriel's army, but I'll roll:
Or, if Ozil doesn't have enough specific info on Szuriel's location & strength in Abaddon, where in Golarion can we go to seek out that intelligence?
.
I love the idea of going to Starstone Cathedral but I have two thoughts:
-- If (when) we Pass, won't all the other gods sit up and take NOTICE of us, specifically?! And what, er, Domains, we are in charge of, ie: the fact that as gods we want to disrupt all influence of the Outer Planes?!!
Isn't that a surefire way for them (some of them, even) to unite and come after us?
-- As awesome as the Starstone Test is, isn't that a different campaign than the one we signed up for? Honestly, I'm not sure. It could very well BE the campaign we signed up for. I'm just not sure. Um, is it?
On a different note, I feel like all my ranks in Knowledge skills are utterly wasted. =/
Well met, Sir Alphonse Veritas, I'm Iommi-Tyr Magnusson.
- Ozil
Yep. I saw through your clever disguise, Ray. =)
Szuriel's territory in Abaddon are all sort of discounted from each other. In fact he makes a point of not having underlings whose territories border each other. Szuriel is also known to be the most mobile of the horsemen. Likes to stir up a war, but not that interested in sticking around for it. You know that he is currently in the territory of a group of Astradaemons.
As for cults they tend to be rather short lives for similar reasons. There is one causing trouble in the river kingdoms.
But man Ozil your knowledge planes are ridiculous good.
Szuriel is a "she", I believe. A fallen angel-ish paladin from the Material Plane.
@group: If we wanted to take care of this cult of Szuriel before we went to the Starstone, that'd give all of us a feeling for what we can do and playtest our builds before going Mythic/Epic/etc. Sound good?
Yeah, the current Szuriel is female.
Sounds good.
@gods noticing us after Starstone: perhaps we could attempt to only get one of us noticed by them? I think I could pull the "poster boy" for our operation, posing as a deity that wants to actually be a deity of stuff, while we continue our plans behind the scenes. Besides, no deity wants to be the one that takes action against another actual deity.
That sounds good. We find their followers. Ven could pretend to be the horse(wo)man. We commandeer the cult for our means our destroy them. Do this for as many cults as we can find (should be easy with me being a divination expert) until we get Szuriel's attention.
I like where this is going but to be clear,....
We commandeer them to what purpose?
--Pretend to be Szuriel in the flesh and lead them, with other Szuriel cult branches we commandeer, against the real Szuriel in Abaddon.
--Then kill her and take her place.
--Then use that guise to be our "cover" when we start a new religion on the Prime Material? So the gods will blame the Daemons when many souls stop going to the Outer Planes.
Or,... are we commandeering them to lead them to a new "religion" -- our religion -- and we kill Szuriel as one of the final steps of converting her cultists to us.
.... And blame it on the Demons.
I'm actually not sure yet. Didn't really think that part through very well.
However, I have stumbled upon the perfect name for Ven'atorix: The Frozen Tyrant.
Points to his icy nature, his natural leadership abilities, and gives a reference to the Whispering Tyrant, who he hopes to free and ally with (eventually).
@gods noticing us after Starstone: perhaps we could attempt to only get one of us noticed by them? I think I could pull the "poster boy" for our operation, posing as a deity that wants to actually be a deity of stuff, while we continue our plans behind the scenes. Besides, no deity wants to be the one that takes action against another actual deity.
The test says they come out not gods but Demi-gods, in some PF works,
If we are ALL going to be mythic I really think for game play and funall the PCs need to do the test. I really want my PC to do it as well.
Once done even if they notice us we can LIE to them, in this way we can ramp up the gaming v Big bad's over time. AT some point they will clock on to what we are doing but my hope is that by then we are at a power level and critical mass souls wise to get that last fight to a win.
We may even get some gods to convert to our point of view.
As for starting trouble 1st. sounds good to me.
I like where this is going but to be clear,....
We commandeer them to what purpose?
--Pretend to be Szuriel in the flesh and lead them, with other Szuriel cult branches we commandeer, against the real Szuriel in Abaddon.
--Then kill her and take her place.
--Then use that guise to be our "cover" when we start a new religion on the Prime Material? So the gods will blame the Daemons when many souls stop going to the Outer Planes.Or,... are we commandeering them to lead them to a new "religion" -- our religion -- and we kill Szuriel as one of the final steps of converting her cultists to us.
.... And blame it on the Demons.
Asked the very same thing some post back.
Convert, kill or copy, my vote is copy and lead them to a new path.
PS~:
I am going to make this the only game I am playing in, to fully enjoy this. Level 20s + are rare and for me I need to put the time in so as to get the best. I am GMing a game on here and will keep that up, I like my players. But I just wanted to say I really want this to work.
Finally got around to getting my full backstory up in my profile.
I'd appreciate it if you guys would read it, and give me some feedback.
read it looks good, ice touch with the Ice death
I think all of us could feasibly challenge a horseman.
The trouble ith the starstone test is that it doesn't make you mythic. It makes you a god. A literal god.
That might be something best saved for the end game.
I think all of us could feasibly challenge a horseman.
The trouble ith the starstone test is that it doesn't make you mythic. It makes you a god. A literal god.
That might be something best saved for the end game.
Well, it seems to put you on the PATH to godhood, but if Iomedae is any indicator, it doesn't take you straight there. She was Aroden's Herald fro a while (and most Heralds are statted up as 15th level characters with some special abilities or racial qualities).
I have an idea about how that may pan out in the case of my PC, but it would need some fleshing out.
GM this is where we need you again, god to god like, your input would help is move things along.
Well, it seems to put you on the PATH to godhood, but if Iomedae is any indicator, it doesn't take you straight there. She was Aroden's Herald fro a while (and most Heralds are statted up as 15th level characters with some special abilities or racial qualities).I think all of us could feasibly challenge a horseman.
The trouble ith the starstone test is that it doesn't make you mythic. It makes you a god. A literal god.
That might be something best saved for the end game.
That doesn't mean very much. Her choosing not to act as a god can be a question of humility rather than power. Iomedae was his servant as a mortal and would still be more powerful even if she came into lesser dietyship. She probably went into the test of the starstone purely with intent to serve her god.
Yo did see my post where I put up this link, where the Pathfinder DEVs talk about the Test of the Starstone LINK
|
DM,
It looks like we're going to the Szuriel Cult in the River Kingdoms you told us about earlier.
Please let us know if you need a couple extra days to prep a specific scenario there, or build some NPCs, before we can really immerse ourselves in the next step.
We'll be able to talk more about our plans, both short term specifics and long term generalizations.
But for me, I'd like our first action-area to be as developed & thought out as it can be. The Sandbox nature of this game means you may not have a ready cult prepared; feel free to prepare.
Just let us know if you need an extra couple days.
Fortunately the river kingdoms are fairly well stated.
Do undead even have their own souls?
My thinking is we make something new, in that way it may not fall under any god, some magic/tech hybrid that can make a cloned body, I have no idea how to get a soul to 'jump' to this now body in place of death.
In meta game land, this could mean loss of levels, but personality intact. Not as strong a resurrection, but not an undead unlife.
Intelligent undead are where the souls are trapped on the material plane. The mindless ones are where the soul has already passed on.
my worry is the magics that specifically, hurt, attack and control undead. Yes I know there are ones for living beings, its just offering Unlife has real bad cultural ramifications. Undead apocalypse comes to mind, thats with out the fact our undead will have an automatic unlife supporting link to the negative energy plane. If we cut the links to the other planes that may undo all our work.
My point is, We want to offer followers a living life just like their old one.
So yea binding souls is quite expensive. 1,000gp per HD expensive.
Yep.
Of course, you're a Wizard. Get an Infinite Money train going.
But I need subject to experiment on Muuhahahahah
I'm following Order of the stick lead where it comes to intelligent undead. (expect for litches)
By the way I like where this discussion is going. I am going to have to think of a good way to work with it. I wish there were rules for researching magic items besides just the custom items rules. You might find it easier to try and research a spell for the purpose.
Edit:
Something not many know. The bones in boneyard act like soul magnets/beacon. If you could get a large amount of those bones you could craft an area where the costs of resurrection spells are heavily discounted.
thats one for Ozil
I will now bother to properly prepare spells.
Silly prepared casters!