If I remember correctly (not the best of assumptions, but hey--), the only reason we started the "new religion" idea was that the original DM indicated that we would have a pretty quick TPK if we just started fighting gods, that he didn't even know how we could ever take on a god -- despite him wanting to run a campaign where we try it.
....So we figured if we weaken the gods, you know, maybe by preventing souls (the source of their power according to FR canon that has also been assumed or implied in other D&D settings) from making their way to a specific Outer Plane, then maybe we could take them on.Now that the original DM's expectations are not a factor I guess it begs the question, How can we start without an immediate TPK?
Could our group challenge, on day one, a minor Demon Lord or something?
Must we become as impossibly immune to godlike divination magic as we had to in the first iteration, you know, because otherwise every god in the canon will know exactly who we are instantaneously and destroy us before we get started?
Answers to these kinds of questions will help us get started. (Again.)
Great questions Ozil.
Things from my perspective.
You should as a group be capable of taking down a lesser demon lord, or demigod right at level 20.
With how I'm going to be running the gods. I feel that in Pathfinder, and really any polytheistic pantheon, a strength to the mythology that lends to good story telling is that they can be fooled, and while very powerful, have exploitable character flaws. For example, Zeus can't keep it in his pants and this causes him all kinds of trouble, or he's to prideful to just destroy the titans and keeps them locked up so he can laugh at them and laud over his victory.
It would also be my ruling that the gods couldn't use much higher spell casting than what they grant. So sure, is Iomedae, basically a level 30 gestalt paladin cleric without the need to pray before casting spells? Yes. Is that a save that some of you could make? Yes. Is that an attainable level of power for the party? especially working together, yes.
cool that works a lot better, and will lead to some fun ideas in taking down a god or two in interesting ways.
On a note about my PC, been simplifying her down to a being of pour Psionic energy. He back story [simple] and Crunch showing where everything comes from are all in the one Alt now. All tech is gone and items simplified as well, even cut down her Name to make typing it easy.
That's pretty close to what i imagined they would be when we weakened them. High level gestalts or more with 10 mythic tiers. I also imagined they get free metamagic and can cast all appropriate divine spells at will pretty much.
Yes, we can use that to start planning a bit -- here's another question:
When we first began, the original DM said we could be from anywhere (Greyhawk, Krynn, Toril, Ptolus, Golarion, etc., etc.), and that got us starting to consider pantheology (is most probably from where we got the idea of weakening gods, FR style). And then, very quickly, the DM backpedaled and said we'd be using the Golarion mythos only -- it was clear he wasn't familiar with Graz'zt and Tiamat and Fraz Urb Lu and Obox Ob and Tharizdun and Jubilex and Bane and Cyric and Takhisis, etc., etc. -- and our early plans were getting very big, very fast (You know, pantheology is BIG.) and we were desperate for some way to size it down.
So, in this new iteration, will other Prime Material Planes and their mythoi exist, or just Pathfinder?
-- It is important to note that one of the PCs is comprehensively designed to be from another Plane: Ravenloft. And my PC is designed to be from Greyhawk and have traveled to several other Prime Material Planes.
My question in its simplest form: Are Graz'zt, Tiamat, Bane and Takhisis potential enemies (potential "players") in this campaign?
Arkon is from eberron.
And Tik is from space. And his race originated on Athas.
Tentatively I will say yes all of those mythos exist. But travel between them is difficult and if you were able to travel between them before, it was at the whim of something far outside your understanding.
As of right now, given the appropriate amount of in game time and RP development, I would allow PC's to begin developing Mythic Spells along the lines of Univershift, or Void jaunt, basically super versions of those spells that would only normally work for the Plains in a given universe.
Sal De Qill is from the Spelljammer setting, she was hitching a lift when the craft she was on crashed into Golarion some 9000+ years ago and been on the world from that point, on. She has been to a number of Crystal Spheres. With out a Spelljamming helm she is not going to be going anywhere any time soon. For powers that allow her shift to other planes I think that can be done. If she gets a mythic level she will take Overmind path and there is a mythic form of planeshift that can be tweaked.
How's it going guys, this is a quit time of year and I know nothing much has been posted. Is there a problem?
I'm still here.
I think Bane's just going through all of the necessary steps to get things together for us.
I'm still here -- I check for new posts on average 3-4 times per day.
But yes, my posting is lite. My perspective on it is yeah, once the DM is closer to being ready and starts us out, I'll make posting here a priority. And I don't want to jump the gun on starting. For now I just want him to have as much time as he needs to get ready and don't want to pressure him into starting unless he's ready.
Anyway, this guy's taking over a game that wasn't his; I just want him to make sure he's ready. I, at least, will still be here when it's GO TIME.
This is my DM alias guys just so you know.
I have a start. Once again, I will interject to play NPC's and respond to actions and questions and run combats.
But you are all powerful agents. So use your agency to enact on a plan that Ozil will lay out.
On that note, Ozil I will PM you some plot points for the first part of our journey.
Sounds great. Are you starting your own new campaign thread or using this one still?
I'll probably use this one and make the request to have it handed over to me.
sounds great we will wait for Ozil to tell us what's the plan.
I can see us writing a lot of story ourselves which I would really like.
Stood on a hell we can still have a Chin wag.
Checking in.
Later today I will (likely) have time to read up on the DM's PM for me and post in gameplay. I'm absolutely slammed at work today but responsibilities will hopefully be accomplished by around 2:00 EST and I can jump back on the Boards. (And note, this is a ridiculously busy weekend for me, as well.)
But I'm here and excited to get started!
In your own time Ozil, NP
Just read the PM -- sounds great.
I could cast Gate if we think we could convince a unique being to come through. Cost's 10k. If not we jump through and take the fight to it I guess.
Nah thanks, don't want to have to learn 5th atm.
me as well, but thinks for letting us know
I don't think you can know exactly where someone is with just skills.
Not just using skills,, using powers hehe
Well no, but we may know what Plane -- and the name and some info on the capital city or citadel or hole in a mountain where she lairs, and maybe even the names and backgrounds of her generals and advisers or whatever. And I'd love to have some history on her; we'll see.
Thanks for the patience everyone. Usually slow poster on weekends, and had a MTG tournament all day saturday.
Will get something up today or tonight.
Do you guys just wanna friggin charge in and attack so it feels like the game is finally going?
For me (and Sundakin can attest) I'm completely happy spending the next several weeks planning and discussing strategies and ideas.
But I feel some of y'all are just ready to wield your bad-ass PCs into battle already.
I'd love to come up with a plan to start a dialog with Nocticula -- that would be incredible -- but I totally get it if you guys just want to start fighting.
....But seriously, roleplaying a conversation with Nocticula! And then trying to get to Yamasha and trick her into willingly come with us to a Demi-Plane.... And then attacking her?
Sounds fun.
I don't mind as long as SOMETHING finally happens. I'm just as good RPing a conversation with an NPC as murdering it.
If they want to jump in a start swinging just to get something going Happy to go with that, or the group vote.
Bevore we throw ourselves to the succubus can we get some divinations/knowledge checks to know what we're getting into from a tactical perspective? I'm thinking defenses, cohorts, enemies, her capabilities, etc.
One of my favorite things in gaming is talking through enemies: Coming up with the idea and then convincing, for example, Nocticula to let us visit Yamasha in her "vacation spot" in The Midnight Isles. .... That would be my first choice.
But we don't know of anything, or have anything (info) we can use to talk to Nocticula with.
Maybe I'd start the conversation with Nocticula as such: "If I tell you about a plot against you of which you're unaware, will you return a favor?"
.... The problem with this kind of plan is that there IS no forthcoming attack or any plot at all that we know about of Szuriel's against Nocticula.
Or maybe I could go this route: "Maybe you've heard of me; I'm the "mortal project" Asmodeus planned -- something about if he made a son that was somehow mortal then he would be able to use me to further some of his plans that an Aspect or Avatar just couldn't do -- being Outsiders on The Material Plane and all that. .... Anyway, maybe we could work together on something -- form an alliance -- as I have some plans of my own. Tell me what strings in Hell you want me to pull and then you can do something for me. It could be the start of a beautiful relationship."
.... The (most obvious) problem here is that any "pull" of Hell's strings I have is purely Fluff for my PC background. None of it is real.
And that's what's troubling me. I can think of a hundred and one great gambits to pull on Nocticula, to attempt to pull, but it's like making a House of Cards to trick someone -- my Specialty in Roleplaying -- but I don't have any cards with which to build my illusion.
As incredulous as this sounds it's true: WE ARE AT .
At the risk of further dragging out our "gameplay intro," I think we should be given the opportunity to learn more Background. We need more info from you, DM.
Unless you tell us that, just to get started, we're capable of going into the Midnight Isles and taking out Yamasha in Nocticula's own backyard -- and having a chance of making it out alive -- we've gotta come up with a plan. And for that we need more info.
Who do we think are Nocticula's enemies?
Who are her allies?
What are some rumors floating around?
.
We as high level PCs, can you give us any roleplaying resources that would fit our backgrounds -- things we may know a bit about to maybe use?
Loud and clear guys!
Ok things you could know with a DC 50(autopass for some of you!) K(Planes/Religion/History)
1. Nocticula lives on the island of Alinythia, in a monstrous gothic palace.
2. Nocticula is one of the seven most powerful Demon Lords, those associated with the seven cardinal sins. She is Lust, and her brother Socothbenoth is Pride. He lives in his own realm of the Abbyss, but spends time in the Midnight Isles as well albeit possessing his own island and castle, though he can often be found at the court of Nocticula.
3. Nocticula's closest friend and lover is also one of her greatest rivals, the Nascent Demon Lord Shamirah. A phoenix winged succubus and possibly the daughter of Sarenrae, though none know for sure as not even the gods can remember who she was before she appeared in Nocticula's bedchamber and seduced her.
4. Nocticula and her brother are worshipped mostly in the underdark, by drow noble families, as well as by Lamyros. Lamyros are all forms of Lamia kin and they are Pharasma cursed and also will to bring about the end of the good Gods.
5. Her most prolific enemy is also most likely very deadly to your group as well. The Archdevil Achaekek, Mantis Lord of Assassins. Achaekek is a being created by the God's to do their will and dispose of their enemies. It is said that Achaekek receives his targets not by direct order but by divine intuition. You can postulate that even with the protection that the Eye of Nethys may afford you, the Red Mantis Assassins may hunt you regardless. Achaekek dislikes Nocticula because she infringes on his portfolio, and specifically targets monarchs for the chaos it causes. Whereas the Red Mantis respects Monarchs by divine writ and will not assassinate them.
Ah, Achaekek. One of my personal favorite gods.
We're going to need to slaughter him, unfortunately.
That or take over some countries and install ourselves as the new rulers.
Thanks -- this will be a great help. I think we can think out a few tangible plans now. More questions -- probably accompanied with rolls -- forthcoming.
So how doable is "Kill Nocticula" at this stage of our development? Is it possible, but hard?
I ask because I like the "Work with her" plan, but that can always fail, or she could double-cross us, and so on, in which case a fight may be inevitable.
let me know in a few weeks if and when anything happens
Just be sure to tell me where and when to point my sword, guys.
I'm ready to fight just about anything.
Oh there will be fighting. Right now Ozil is just pulling the wool over a creature basically made of lust and lies eyes. Because hey that's not creepy.
As I've said enough times to bore even myself, I didn't really build Ven to be any sort of social monster, outside of knowing every way to dissect just about any humanoid with a bastard sword without it dying, given enough time.
His main hobbies include looking for things to kill, killing things, and talking about killing things. It's kind of his thing.
Finesse.
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I think we'll get there soon; I can't imagine dragging out my conversation with Nocticula much longer -- it's a blast, very memorable -- but ultimately the sexual innuendo mixed with violence is not the funnest thing to roleplay.
I think we'll be allowed to steal Nethys's Herald away to Alexander Torov's Misty Demi-Plane and fight her there (even though Torov himself isn't here).
Then Ozil will stand back and just sling his Spells while y'all do what you've been hankering to do.
And I have a feeling that we'll have to go back to The River Kingdoms to kill some high level Cultists of Szuriel as well (leaving a calling card, of course, that says "Nocticula was here.")
That all sound like so much hard work, Sal Da Qill would more rather have them to kill themselves, and she can be so very persuasive.
I would rather we do something. Anything.
lest start then
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Guys if your going to port in for this fight now is the time.
Why I changed my Cohort, I looked over Sal and found her lacking in combat power. one Anti-magic / Psonic field and she has nothing. where as with this cohort she can go into one and still be affetive for the party. I wanted something out of the box, not just a dragon or something critter ish, she dos not have that feeling. I wanted something that would work in an anit magic area well. I know I was going to drop tech and I did for her, but her cohort I felt would be cool being a mad old Robot like thing. Something she keeps out of the way to used when there is some hand to hand to be had when you cant blast with powers. Just gives her more range.
Hi guys we have three in combat, any more coming.
Looks like rounds next.
Seriously. Than waiting for all of us to come on and roll it individually? He could roll it when he makes his post and even explains if there's anything IN the room.
Im happy with what ever the GM wants, :)
In PbP it is generally much faster for the GM to make a lot of extraneous rolls as something as simple as a perception check can take days. Getting initiative rolled ad ordered immediately upon combat setting up in one post saves days of everyone rolling their initiative.
I'll wait until the GM decides how he wants to do this.