As someone who has crunched the numbers, and run a couple of summoners (including a Synthesist) I concur that Eidolons can make fantastic combat monsters - high AC, decent hit points, and a plethora of attacks.
They start getting nasty around level 4, and from level 8 (when you can make them large), they can become terrifyingly good :-)
My wife has an eidolon in Serpent Skull. Level 12ish, 29 AC, 3 attacks, Large. It's scary. It took out a Froghemoth solo, but only because she happened to have electricity damage on it's claws.
The synthesist in one of my games just hit level 7 and he has a 31 AC now. Kinda annoying, but makes my job more interesting.
I'm probably going to have to tank up a bit...
What to do with Zerekias...
Far from not having options, there is a lot of things Zerekias could have, and now still could do. While I feel the most realistic given his character so far would be to never back down. He wouldn't attack, but when they cam to restrain him, he would fight back. Things would escalate, and then he would die. While the option I used seems a touch less likely, Javell said he would just have him leave, so I can respect that.
In case it seemed like Zerekias's options were limited to the point where he had to leave the game, I thought out a few different ways things could have gone, as of the moment Javell left, no retcons or changes required.
1. Zerekias changes his mind, swallows his pride, and accepts the offer. I wasn’t expecting him to do that, and if it is against his character, I’d be insulted if he did.
2. Almah/Garavel change their minds and allow Zerekias to remain a dangerous independent agent. Characters acting out of character again. No different than asking Zerekias to roll over.
3. Zerekias refuses to leave or cooperate in any way, and things eventually escalate to a fight. Zerekias is killed.
4. Zerekias refuses to cooperate, is subdued non-lethally, tied to a camel and returned to Solku.
5. Zerekias insists he knows better than his prospective employers and challenges them in combat, tribal style. Garavel champions Almah as her major domo. As Zerekias does not have the resources to lead the caravan, the terms are that if he is defeated, he accepts leadership, but if he wins he will be respected and left alone as a free agent as he desires.
6. Zerekias agrees to leave the camp, never explicitly agreeing to return to Solku. He then ditches his escort and makes for the Abby. When he meets up with the party, it’s up to them to report him or not, work with him or not.
7. Zerekias petitions his allies, arguing that assigning a leader now is premature. He tries to get them to agree to his approach. – Not his strong suit, but with PCs no check is needed, and even brutish warriors can speak briefly and with wisdom.
8. Zerekias boots it into the desert. He uses his Survival skill specialization to lose any pursuit and establish his own camp. He then meets up with the party at the Abby and offers/gives assistance. Again, it’s up to the party how to handle it.
I am disappointed that I didn't get the chance to discuss these options with Javell, but it appears he did not think that there would be options, and that he was being forced out. As you can see, that was not my intent.
It is very important to me that people are able to play their own characters as they see fit. I would never ask anyone to change their character, as this has been asked of me on occasion and I know how difficult it is, and unreasonable to ask. The Character is sacrosanct in my opinion, and as long as he/she follows the rules, I will not force a player to do anything they do not want to. That being said, the world is mine, and if your character and his actions end up butting up against characters or elements of the world that cannot be changed for the same reasons, be prepared to face consequences. I see allowing a character to die, rather than break character, as an awesome thing, and I will reward that in character generation with your next character. But you will still die.
It is very important to me that people are able to play their own characters as they see fit. I would never ask anyone to change their character, as this has been asked of me on occasion and I know how difficult it is, and unreasonable to ask. The Character is sacrosanct in my opinion, and as long as he/she follows the rules, I will not force a player to do anything they do not want to. That being said, the world is mine, and if your character and his actions end up butting up against characters or elements of the world that cannot be changed for the same reasons, be prepared to face consequences. I see allowing a character to die, rather than break character, as an awesome thing, and I will reward that in character generation with your next character. But you will still die.
Excellent. I totally dig that.
I'll have time for a more substantive game post later today. But what do we actually know about the monastery right now? Anything? (This is largely directed at the other players)
I have taken the liberty of constructing a 'loot' page for this game.
The link is here, but will also be listed on Seif-al-Din's page, for convenience.
oh, good, way to be on the ball with that Seif.
So just a heads up, I'm out of town for thanksgiving week. I'll try to post in the morning/evening, but if anything gets bottlenecked from me feel free to bot Gin. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Thanks for the feedback Muqaq; I always appreciate hearing the reaction to specific rulings or house rulings, as it were. An off the cuff rule such as this one is by no means a hill I'd choose to die on, and so I'm always interested in hearing varied opinions.
1)I'm not cool with the 50/50 thing. It was lame in 3.5 and I wouldn't have fired like that if there was a chance I could hurt my team. Being grappled in pathfinder only gives you the grappled condition, which like you said is -4 to dex etc. A miss on a ranged attack is just a miss. I feel it unfairly disadvantages ranged fighters. Why wouldn't swinging a sword into a grapple invoke the same 50/50 chance?
2)Every combat maneuver has an action associated with it. Only the ones that can be made in place of an attack can be used as part of a flurry. If I remember correctly they are trip, disarm and bull rush. If you read the combat maneuver section, they all say what kind of action they are.
1. You are mistaken on the point of melee vs. range; while I can see how you interpreted my statement as applying to range as I was discussing a range attack in that instance. However, if you look down in that post you'll see I applied the same miss chance rule to Gin for his melee attack. Easy to miss, but it was there, and my intent was to apply it evenly to all modes of combat.
As for the rule itself, the 3.5 version was lame. The rule then was that you made your attack and then determined randomly which of the parties involved in the grapple is hit by a successful attack. It was stupid, because you had no way of influencing which target you hit, even if you were the best archer/swordsman/monk/whathaveyou in the world.
I feel however, that this is a situation that represents a missing rule in the Pathfinder system. I draw most of my house rules from some sense of logic, or from real life experience. In terms of melee combat, I take from my martial arts training. I've trained some 12 years in a traditional japanese style that includes striking and grappling (Kyokushinkai), 3 years of swordsmanship (Musou Jikiden Eishin Ryu Iaido), Judo, Kendo, and a year each of two styles of Kung Fu (I'm an enthusiast). This was the basis I used for decided what I felt was really a feat, and what wasn't. I know what things I had to work hard in order to learn. Winding up and hitting something as hard as I can was not one of them, thus Power Attack is not really a feat. In some exercises, we would have multiple students gang up against an individual, and I've been on both sides. When people are moving, hitting the wrong guy is not only possible, it happens. I've also worked in hospital a lot in psychiatric settings, as I do now, and I have personally seen a nurse get a shot in the butt from a needle that was meant for a patient that they were restraining (grappling)(that was funny...we had to get someone to pick them up and take 'em home before they passed out; anti psychotics and tranquillizers hit pretty hard ;)
We have a few military guys here too, and while that is outside my experience, my understanding is that close quarters combat, particularly room clearing, has a very high risk friendly fire, and accidents are much more likely than in open engagements. Am I wrong?
I agree that the 3.5 rule was lame. However, what I have proposed is significantly different, in my opinion. My ruling was that a miss, and only a miss (not a hit as in 3.5) can result in an accidental friendly hit. Part of my intent, though not explicitly stated, was to separate true misses from failure to penetrate armour as well. For example, if a grappled fighter had an AC 18 (+6 armour, +2 dex), while an 18 or greater would hit, a 12-18 would glance off armour, but not exactly miss; only a failure to hit with a 11 or lower would be a true miss. So basically, if you miss the target's Touch AC, your attack went completely awry, and there is a chance of hitting the other party in the grapple. This to me is a good balance of realism, in a fairly simple game mechanic. Miss Touch AC, possibly hit another target involved in the grapple.
One argument might state that the friendly target should get a chance to resist, as their armour may be nigh impregnable, and were you to make that argument, I'd have to concede. The counter to that would be to say that if the dice said you hit the friendly, you reroll your attack at the same bonuses as before and see if you penetrate defences. I would track all of this and make the necessary rolls. All you as a PC would need to consider would be, friendly in a grapple? there is a chance I could hit him if I attack.
Simple and realistic. In my opinion of course, and I always keep an open mind to other points of view.
2. Thanks for the reference. My work has recently blocked the SRD from me, so I couldn't look it up at the time I was posting. Good to know I got it right.
I'm with you DM. Your mechanic proposes a small but definite chance of friendly fire, which I also have long considered noticeably absent from PF, but haven't felt strongly enough to devise and implement in my own games.
I think it's extremely unrealistic that it doesn't exist in RAW, and I also think that it's inclusion adds an interesting (and necessary) tactical decision. That said, I'd rather no rule than a bad one, but Stormwind's looks pretty good to me, mainly because of the "didn't beat the touch AC" aspect.
Just my opinion, I'm not terribly bothered if the ruling doesn't stick, but that's my preference.
I can't argue your logic, it is of course correct. I did slightly misunderstand you with the range vs melee thing. Apologies. The main thing that irked me is having a house rule implemented before I know it exists. I'm not really upset, and I'd actually be fine with the rule as long as it affects both ranged and melee equally. I'd just ask that you inform us first next time so we can decide appropriately. No harm done, lets go with the rule :)
Sorry for the surprise, but as I can't always foresee circumstances before they arise, I can't guarantee I might not make such a spur of the moment ruling again. However, all such rulings would be open to discussion, and what I would commit to is that if such a ruling would affect your choice of action, I'll allow the action to be adjusted.
Sounds good.
On Friday December 7th I will be flying to Hawaii for a 1 year anniversary/honeymoon. I will have limited internet access and will check the forums but most likely won't be posting too terribly much. We haven't been playing long enough for Xanyon to really develop but he's basically a scared kid trying to make himself useful in a world he doesn't fully understand yet. He's deathly afraid of fire (for good reason) and will do his best to stay at range unless it become useless, in which case he'll close.
Congratulations! Have a good trip.
There have not been many postings lately, and with combat beginning I was expecting more participation. If anyone is away for some reason and unable to post, a note mentioning that would be appreciated, such as the one Xanyon left above. Ironically, he is one of the few to have posted lately.
Of course, Christmas is coming up soon, and I myself will be away as well during parts of the season, with irregular internet access. I will let you know when this is coming up. Hopefully people are just busy with holiday related activities or end of year time-crunches. If so, please drop us a line when you can to let us know when to expect your return to regular posting.
Sorry! My campaign tab did not show any updates in this game until you posted in the Discussion thread :-/
I have rectified my silence :-)
Sorry for me as well. It's end of term for me, and I've just finished exams now. Hopefully I'll be able to check in more frequently.
It is that time of year, so I expect some delays. Haven't heard from Gin or Tarin in a while. Normally I might NPC them, but I don't want to choose their tactics or approach in this circumstance, as I might lock them into a strategy they dislike, this being the first round. Perhaps like Seif, their focus list isn't showing the new posts for some reason. I'll send them a PM just in case.
Thanks for the head's up. Looks like the site is back up; I haven't been able to get on since mid-day yesterday.
I'll be travelling tomorrow and Sunday, and I'm away with my wife for a few days from Dec 28-31 (Kids with the grandparents, yay). Those days I'll be spotty or absent, but I should be able to check in through the holidays otherwise.
Sorry guys, it's been a little more trouble than anticipated to update the game. I had to leave my computer at home due to space considerations and doing updates from an iPhone will be laborious, however I will try to get one up soon. Without my computer, I may not be able to update the maps, so my updates may just require using coordinates on previous maps. I have to files for the maps with me on a flash drive, so if I can barrow a computer I may be able to do the modifications, we'll see.
I'm back home January 5th or so, so worst case scenario, we'll be back to normal then. Merry Christmas everyone!
Hope everyone had a jolly Boxing Day :) No probs DM, I think everyone's a little cruisy with posting this time of year...
Going away the next few days for a romantic getaway with my wife. While I'm sure there will be some downtime, I don't know if I'll have wireless at this resort, or if my wife would let me get away with posting. Long story short, you can probably expect me to go dark for a few days. See you all soon.
Thank you for baring with me through this Christmas season, and for continuing to create such an enjoyable gaming experience for me. By way of thanks, lets take care of an annoyance. That original 5 in the Ability Score set everyone but Muqaq used will be replaced with a:
This replaces the set: 18, 15, 14, 14, 14, 5 with 18, 15, 14, 14, 14, 10.
Muqaq, and anyone who didn't take that set can upgrade to it now. (I believe M was using 18, 14, 12, 12, 11, 8, so I doubt there is a reason to stay with that.
This makes the set pretty stacked, but the 5 dump stats were pretty ridiculously low, the group has been RPing very well, and if the battles with the 1 HD piss-ant creatures are any indication, things will only get harder from here.
Feel free to rebuild, or redesignate stats as warranted. New stats, and the resulting changes to any combat statistics and saves and such will not take effect until round 3 at the earliest, or when you have them done at the latest. In most cases this will not come up I wager, as it was a dump stat anyway.
Merry Christmas and happy new year.
Nice Christmas gift for us players DM :) It won't affect much for Tarin numbers-wise, but it will make RPing a little easier to have a Cha of 10 - I was finding it a bit tough to be totally unlikeable/socially retarded. I really was trying though!
My ability scores look way different than that set. I don't honestly remember what I made Muqaq with, but this is a significant upgrade for me. Yay :)
New stats:
Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 20
That's an upgrade for me as well, I didn't take the array because of the 8. I'll have it upgraded tonight and posted.
Profile updated.
My profile is now updated as well.
Well, profile updated - turns out that didn't change a single number on my character sheet :) Will make a difference if I take UMD down the line though I guess.
Actually, if I can have a day or so of grace, I may switch out my Conversion Inquisition back to the Travel domain. I was going to take Travel, but when I took the array with the 5 I went for Conversion as my Cha was totally dumped, and I thought the social skills would still be important... Is that cool? I'm travelling home from vacation today, so I'll be able to pore over my books tonight :)
That sounds just fine Tarin.
Luke Parry hasn't posted as Seif in 17 days...but he posted an hour ago in another thread. Perhaps you should send him a PM poke DM?
Done.
I intended to give him a bit of time and then proceed with him on autopilot, but I forgot to bring my flash drive with my map files to work today.
I'll probably go ahead and update anyway and post the updated map when I get home.
Whoops! Sorry guys - my 'Campaign' thread had not shown any updates since before Christmas; I thought this game was still on the 'summer hiatus' that a number of my other games seem to be experiencing.
Rest assured, I will soon make a post in the IC thread, although I am happy with the rolls that DM Stormwind made for me for last round ;-)
Also, I like the 'Christmas present' we all received :-D
Thanks Stormwind, I was a bit confused there about what round we were in, good move you made for Tarin :) Crits against pugwampis are very hard to come by though, aren't they?
For the record, my 'campaign page' is still not noting 'new posts' in the IC thread, even though I can see them when I look at the IC thread - to compensate, I am checking the thread on a regular basis :-)
Perhaps try checking your Hidden threads (SHOW ∅) to make sure it hasn't accidentally ended up in there. I've done that a few times. You can put it back on your shown list by reclicking the ∅ button.
If that's not it I'm not sure what the problem would be.
An alternate way to view all the threads you post in, is to just go to the online campaigns forum, and click the focus link at the top. Then it will reduce the list to only threads you've posted in. I find it more convenient than the campaign tab.
It is in my 'active' thread list; it is just that new posts in the IC thread are not showing up (although new ones in the discussion thread are, bizarrely) on my 'my campaigns' page.
Muqaq: waiting for an action for this round. I'll NPC Gin if we don't hear from him today.
Gin, just in case you can see new posts in the discussion forum but not the gameplay, we are still waiting for your action.
So Gin has been absent since Jan 28, and it may be time to call it and decide that he is not coming back. He has not responded to posts or to any of my private messages. His last post under any alias was January 5.
Unless anyone has another idea on ways to contact him, we'll need to look at excising his character. I have no problem DMPCing him until a logical place arrives to have him exit.
You're a lot more lenient than me! I usually look to start replacing people if they haven't posted in a week. At least that's when they get the "hey, you still here?" PM.
If we do replace him we could use a beefcake who also can use a composite bow decently well. Someone with full BAB and at least a 16 strength and dex. A well built zen archer or trapper ranger would be nice. We don't have anyone with disable device or trap finding right? So maybe the trapper would be better.