Non-violent character

Inlaa wrote:

6) Someone raised by peace-loving individuals. Perhaps they were raised in a temple of Sarenrae?

Minor nitpick: Sarenrae doesn't do nonviolence or peace. She does redemption and mercy, but if some irredeemable soul (Or undead, if they have souls) needs a chopping, you can ring up the nearest temple of Sarenrae for some backup. How about Shelyn or Abadar?

She's a deity that literally tries to talk with evil deities to try and sway them from the dark side. The whole point of redeeming people is that it's a better answer than just outright murdering them. Yes, worshipers of Sarenrae will fight the good fight when they must, but I don't think it would unheard of for someone raised by Sarenrae worshipers to develop a peaceful mindset.

Also, yeah, the Tranquil Paladin is an interesting archetype for this.

Human Animist shaman with channel energy, a thrush familiar, the asmoden advocate feat and authorative vestaments = no combat pure diplomacy all the time unless the GM says "No diplomacy for reasons". Throw in silver tounged human racial and a diplomacy trait for giggles.

When that happens you are still a full nine level caster that can poach the cleric and sorcerer/wizard list for the best buffs, condition removals and heals.

My Self wrote:

Inlaa wrote:

6) Someone raised by peace-loving individuals. Perhaps they were raised in a temple of Sarenrae?

Minor nitpick: Sarenrae doesn't do nonviolence or peace. She does redemption and mercy, but if some irredeemable soul (Or undead, if they have souls) needs a chopping, you can ring up the nearest temple of Sarenrae for some backup. How about Shelyn or Abadar?

She's a deity that literally tries to talk with evil deities to try and sway them from the dark side. The whole point of redeeming people is that it's a better answer than just outright murdering them. Yes, worshipers of Sarenrae will fight the good fight when they must, but I don't think it would unheard of for someone raised by Sarenrae worshipers to develop a peaceful mindset.

Also, yeah, the Tranquil Paladin is an interesting archetype for this.

I'd say Saerenae could certainly support a pacifist follower. It's not the only way to play a Saerenite, but it's one of many valid ones.

This isn't at all what you are wanting to do from what I can see, but I thought I'd throw it in anyway.

Play a support or debuff class like a bard or a witch. My witch technically has the least amount of blood on her hands (technically) than any other character I've played so far and has lead to the most amount of disarmed/non-killed enemies ever for me, and I wasn't even trying to pull that off. How? Well, you see, she rarely if ever (depending on how technical you get*) uses direct attack spells. What does she use? Evil eye (debuff, no blood spilled), Misfortune (debuff, no blood spilled), Fortune (buff, no blood spilled), Slumber (wonderful hex, sends enemies to sleep so you can take them prisoner!), and spells like Glitterdust (blinds enemies, makes them more visible).

So I guess a lot of it depends on what you mean by non-violent. Do you mean, "Takes no action in battle?" Do you mean, "Actively attempts to stop battle in any way necessary once it starts?" Do you mean, "Doesn't personally cause harm to anyone in battle?"

*She did vomit a swarm once, and the swarm did attack people. My witch isn't meant to be a pacifist.

Is the Tranquil Guardian Paladin allowed? Basically trades all the offensive features for abilities that force enemies to not fight

Unless of course, they make the relevant saves.

I'm going to suggest a completely different extreme. You could go with an actual NPC class, like Expert or Aristocrat. Supposedly someone made an Aristocrat work in PFS back when it was allowed, and reached fairly high level while being a valued member of the party. Knowing your class abilities and using them to the utmost is often more important than having a nominally "best" class, or latest superbuild.

Note that this is a fairly extreme suggestion, but it has been used successfully.

Okay, that might be harsh. But really, a party of adventurers... that's a group of people who wander around specializing in murdering things so they can get more money to murder better. Um. Sounds like a murderhobo to me.

Isn't that just called being a mercenary?

Be prepared to watch (IRL) everyone else have fun fighting monsters while your PC ducks and covers. You might not even have to roll initiative. At least you might soak up some damage by being targeted yourself. Dispersing some hit point damage that way might not be considered worthy of an equal share of XP or loot or glory, so be prepared for that as well.

I played a pacifist/libertarian type cleric that focused on diplomacy, healing, status removal and buffing. He was a great addition to our group, which at the time was a large group with 6-8 PCs at every session.

I am not sure if any of you are familiar with Lanchester's Law. Basically it states that the effectiveness of combatants is roughly equal to the square of the number of combatants. So two combatants working together is four times as effective as a lone fighter. Obviously this is a law of diminishing returns, if you already have five combat oriented PCs in your party then adding a sixth will only give you a marginal gain. In that case you are probably better off having a healer.

Great math! I hadn't heard of this, but it's cool. To follow it out for my own benefit, adding a third doubles the pair's effectiveness -- and adding a fourth still essentially doubles the trio's. (It's a matter of which way you round.) But adding even just that fifth combatant adds only half again, as does then adding a sixth. After that, it drops further, but not by much. This fits with my experience. We had 6 PCs for the game with our Life Oracle -- the one who spent pretty much every fight simply buffing & healing, without any meeting any resentment at all. Certainly, no one ever remotely suggested that she get less treasure!

To the OP:

Something to point out, if you go Oracle. In my current game, no one is playing a dedicated healer. We've got a bard who's multi-tasking, but mostly via a maxed-out UMD. This means that we're losing treasure by not having a healer in the party -- we're having to all pitch in periodically on wands for things like Cure Serious & condition-removals. We really need to start looking at adding scrolls to the cash drains, too.

I asked my husband Debnor, who played said life oracle and is now playing said bard, about your quest. He says that an 8th-level bard can use Dirge of Doom, which does a mass Shaken. Obviously, bards can also be great at all those social skills you want -- Versatile Performance is a frighteningly effective skill multiplier. (At 11th level, given equipment, his bard has 9 skills in the high 20s due to building only 3 skills up that high. This includes nearly all the Charisma skills, Sense Motive, and for something different -- Fly and Acrobatics.) And bards way outperform oracles on Knowledges, of course. He also has a +10 in every Knowledge, which increases by +1 every two levels for free, and he can Take-10 in them at will. In addition, he can Take-20 twice a day. Finally, the bardic spell list focuses on enchantments, transmutations, & illusions, which can easily be used to avert combat. Having played both, he actually thinks that a bard would be better at avoiding combat as opposed to supporting it. I just wish either Debnor or I knew anything about archetypes that might prove helpful.

(Btw, he has also played a chained monk who was terrifyingly effective at combat. I think he understands your notion of diversifying.)

I still have a lot to think about, trying to understand what the character would really do, what I would do in his place. Where does I draw the line?

Another option for a non-violent character is one that fails to grasp danger. sterotypically, a "Tourist" is an example of a non-violent character that could be found adventuring in unknownlands with combat ability.

For this to work, the GM needs to create (or just allow) an in-game reason that your character is needed by the party. Perhaps you are the son or daughter of the rich benefactor that has hired the party, with your presence being required to prove that your parent's funding is well spent. Perhaps you are the rich benefactor, and the party is your hired bodyguards. You could also be a diplomat, emissary, or inspector. which the party has been commanded by the local government to grant a guarded tour of the country.

Terry Pratchett's Color of Magic, features a small party of regulars which includes the non-violent Two-flower.

Speaking of, you could create a character that is non-combat, but has a pet/companion that does fight. In Color of Magic, Two-Flower has a magic chest with a bite attack and legs, which fights in his stead. For pathfinder, could make a Summoner/Druid/Spiritualist which never fights, but their companion creature largerly contributes to combat.

It might be kind of funny if you waded into combat and soaked up attacks while lecturing the enemies on the error of their ways and begging them to cease hostilities. You could probably use some battlefield control spells to isolate foes along with some debuffs to bring them down to the point where they'd have a tough time hurting anybody.

EDIT: There are a few powers which hurt an attacker when the target is damaged. Something like that along with, "Now, now, don't you see that you're hurting yourself worse than me?" could be amusing and or annoying.

It might be kind of funny if you waded into combat and soaked up attacks while lecturing the enemies on the error of their ways and begging them to cease hostilities. You could probably use some battlefield control spells to isolate foes.

Done all 3.

Got to 8th level spells. I grabbed euphoric Tranquility while having a massive Diplomacy. Immediately got the ban hammer cause he did not want his last few bosses end up being tranquilized.

But was fun having better HP and AC than the guy in full plate thinking he was the tank. Soaking AoOs to drop a heal or breath of life on him. Felt like Billy Crystal in princess bride how much he hit the floor. "He is only partially dead."

Be prepared to watch (IRL) everyone else have fun fighting monsters while your PC ducks and covers. You might not even have to roll initiative. At least you might soak up some damage by being targeted yourself. Dispersing some hit point damage that way might not be considered worthy of an equal share of XP or loot or glory, so be prepared for that as well.

I suspect you would more likely have your PC watching in-game everyone else having fun fighting monsters, while you yourself duck and cover.

Party Barbarian Player: "I want to throw a book at Bober."
GM: "You only have two books with you, a PPC Healer's Handbook and a PFRPG CRB. Which do you choose?"
Player: "The CRB, of course."
GM: "Roll to hit, add your DEX modifier, +1 for Masterwork."
Player: "Natural 20. Confirms with another 20."
GM: "Alright, roll 2d6+STR for damage, then double for crit."
Player: "12, before modifiers and doubling. *to Bober* You gotta ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"
Bober: "!!!"

Bober, Do I understand from another thread that you have abandoned the pacifist concept?

You could play a summoner...

often enough they never get their own hands dirty...

Bober, Do I understand from another thread that you have abandoned the pacifist concept?

I haven't, this is not the one I had to abandon.

I'm still working on it, but the campaign has been delayed, so I have more time. Meanwhile I have another one starting soon, the one I'm building "rumpelstiltskin" for.

I would go Oath of Loyalty Paladin with either multiclass or VMC to Life Oracle (so the classic Oradin build) and then go to Stalwart Defender with a Tower Shield, healing both you and your allies and tank AC as high as possible, while sitting in the middle of the battle field with full defense.

It might be kind of funny if you waded into combat and soaked up attacks while lecturing the enemies on the error of their ways and begging them to cease hostilities. You could probably use some battlefield control spells to isolate foes along with some debuffs to bring them down to the point where they'd have a tough time hurting anybody.

EDIT: There are a few powers which hurt an attacker when the target is damaged. Something like that along with, "Now, now, don't you see that you're hurting yourself worse than me?" could be amusing and or annoying.

I ADORE the flavor of this! I've seen a character (different genre altogether) with a similar MO, although he was admittedly an accomplished martial artist. Something like:

Of course, the guy I'm thinking of also had a dark streak I need not go into in this conversation, and the dialog changes considerably when the heroes don't typically put a villain in prison -- they kill him. Plus, you'd want to take out the kicks & punches, and put in debuffs & save-or-suck spells -- they're staggered, shaken/frightened, etc. But the whole concept just shines to me.

But you need the AC they can't touch, or the HP higher than the damage they can do, or better yet, both. So what classes & feats, etc. would achieve this?

Plus, of course, you absolutely have to have companions who are willing to be content and go along with non-violent -- that is, non-lethal -- solutions if one can be achieved. I mean, so the party is fighting a group of half-orcs who have been bandits on a road. The tusks take the OP's sermons to heart and surrender. Now what?

The OP has said he will check to make sure he won't have even one PC with him who will be convinced that these bandits are evil and will just resume banditry somewhere else if allowed to live. (The intra-party conflict would pass the point of fun RP.) Still, even if his fellows are open-minded about non-violent solutions to problems, he needs ideas of what the party might do with a surrendered band of half-orc bandits that would convince them. And sure, that's something that depends on context in-game. But I think it's not an unreasonable test case.

I did something like this once with a cleric co-hort. Her main focus was to use diplomacy and such to stay out of trouble and when it got ugly her go to move was a heightened santuary spell. It was really effective, she just buffed and healed and stayed out of trouble, until a surprise round killed her...But it's totally do able with a straight Cleric in my opinion.

Oath of Vengeance Paladin can do a lot of Smite Evil even with just a 4 level dip in the class. This could get your AC really high, especially against specific "high profile" foes. Being able to top off your HP tank with Lay on Hands could be helpful too. I guess that a "healer" class like Cleric or Oracle who also focused on defense might be able to put HP back faster than the average enemy can take them. Having some debuffs would probably help too.

A debuffing focused Witch with Evil Eye and Retribution could be interesting though Witches are not generally very good at defense or sucking up damage. The Shared Sacrifice spell could also be used to reflect damage back on an attacker from a wider variety of PC spell lists (antipaladin 3, cleric 2, shaman 2, summoner 3, witch 2). The idea also strikes me that a Summoner and or a PC with a Figment familiar might be able to use it as a shield with In Harm's Way, forcing enemies to kill a cute kitten or fuzzy bunny (who actually just comes back the next day)

I wonder how a Merciful Vicious weapon would work and how a PC who operates in "superhero mode" by knocking foes out, forcing them to surrender, etc would work out in a typical Pathfinder adventure. I wonder if there are any decent interrogation powers which might make having prisoners more useful. There's probably a fine line to walk between compelling prisoners to surrender information and basically enslaving them against their will. I guess you could have an Evil PC focused on pacifism or non-lethal attacks too though. Perhaps that's how they convince themselves that they're really not bad people - "I take the utmost care not to kill anybody. I only resort to violence as a last resort for self-defense, and even then I heal my attackers afterwards and give them a chance to work with instead of against us. If I am bad and those murderhobos you call heroes are good then it is truly a twisted world we live in!"

Check out the Pathfinder Chronicler Prestige class for an idea of what could motivate a non-violent character to adventure, & how they can contribute to a campaign.

The Bard is the obvious choice for combining with this, given it's requirements & features, & personally I think the Bard is the perfect class choice for your character concept.
Every level 0 & 1 spell & the vast majority of other Bard spells are non-violent.

Along with your Bard spells, Skills, Performances, & other abilities, & whatever other suggestions you take from other people, you could also use the feat 'Equipment Trick (Thieves Tools)' to get 'Ranged Chicanery' without having to take any Rogue levels.

Ranged Chicanery (Disable Device 1 rank, Sleight of Hand 1 rank, ability to cast mage hand) You can use mage hand to attempt Disable Device and Sleight of Hand checks at range. Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by an amount equal to 5 + 1 for every 5 feet the range is greater than 25 feet. You can't take 10 or 20 on this check. Any object manipulated must weigh 5 pounds or less. If you also possess the ranged legerdemain class feature, you no longer increase the skill check DC by 5 while using Disable Device and Sleight of Hand at range.

Lore/Life Shaman VMC Bard with a one level dip in dual cursed Oracle for Misfortune

Protector Familiar
Hexes: Slumber, Life link, Channel, Benefit of wisdom, Arcane Enlightenment, Fetish (Craft wonderous)
Feats: Lingering Perf., Flagbearer, Eldritch Heritage (Maestro)
Maybe feats: Deific obedience (Milani or Erastil), Scribe Scroll, Improved Eld Heritage, Divine Interference, quicken spell like ability if you can, Imp Familiar, Spirit talker (Heaven's leap is a pretty boss hex for making your party be at the right place at the right time)

Go human, take Silver Tongue to improve attitude by 3 steps instead of 2
Take Skill focusx3 instead of Feat (Since you need a skill focus for eld heritage anyway, why not get three?)

Get a Banner of Ancient Kings, Dervish Sikke, robe of arcane heritage/otherwordly kimono (same slot, just make it yourself and pay the 1.5 cost; if you can't have both, take the kimono)

Between high wisdom and bardic knowledge, you know all the things
Between life link, shield other, channel, etc, you heal all the people
Between human fcb and arcane enlightment (with judicious use of scribe scroll) you cast all the spells
Between misfortune and divine interference you stop all the crits
Between slumber, beguiling voice (via maestro bloodline), and kimono you pacify all the threats
Between inspire courage (competence-std/mve/swft), flagbearer (morale-no action), prayer (luck-std), deific obedience (sacred-no action) you buff with all the bonuses (at mid-levels it's like a +9att/+9dam/+Xsaves in the first round once bardic performance is a move or less)

Imp Eld Heritage lets you talk to everything all the time and Silver tongue lets you improve their attitude by 3 steps. Should make you a lot of friends and if combat breaks out anyway, you can buff, heal, prevent crits/missed saves, and straight up stop anything with HD < your level+2

Want more? Okay!

Blood money + glyphs of warding/symbol spells (via arcane enlightenment) turn you into a walking booby trap. Get an imp familiar that can use bows, give him designating arrows (or pheromone arrows for +2/+2 if anyone in your party has scent...or both!).

What? You want more?!

Okay!

Take Evangelist prestige class. Major skill boost at the cost of only one class level. Dweomer's Essence for a CL boost in a pinch. Clear ear for when you need a knowledge boost. If you can somehow fit it in, take Eld Heritage (Orc) and the Community minded and/or Optimistic gambler trait. +1/2lvl morale bonus to att/dam/will saves for at least 2 rounds, just give it to whichever beatstick needs the biggest damage boost.

Oh, I see, you're worried about defense. AC is a sucker's game. You want mirror image (symbol of mirroring?!), displacement, stoneskin, blink, etc. Oh, you're worried about something with true seeing?

Well, you got one last trick up your sleeve. Rememeber that dip in Oracle? Even if you only took misfortune revelation, you still have the Water Mystery. Soothsayer/ring of revelation (Water Sight) + Obscuring mist/Fog cloud/whatever. You'll lose +2 (+3 if you went milani) in buffs but almost nothing will find you in there.

Edit: I lied. There's always another trick. Ghost syrup + ghost touch gauntlets. Now you're incorporeal!