Mithril weapons

Anyone else think its stupid that all a mithril weapon does is make it lighter? For how much cash it costs to make a mithril weapon, I think it should at least qualify for weapon finese...

also makes it harder (Hard 15, HP 30/inch), counts as silver for DR, and doesn't have the damage penalty of an alchemical silver weapon.

There's little benefit for many weapons to be lighter. It's the combination of weight and edge that makes for damage. A weapon has to be designed to make use of finesse combat easily...making a battle-axe or warhammer lighter would probably reduce its effectiveness, not increase it.

==Aelryinth

I heard that Mithril also acts as a silver weapon but without the penalty to damage.

Aelryinth has the right of it.

Actual silver weapons would be too soft for blades. Consider that lead (used in bullets) has a hardness of about 1.5, while silver is about 2.5 - 3. That small difference makes silver bullets have much higher penetration depth and far less distortion in shape.

The difference between silver and hardened steel is even bigger. From 2.5 to 7.5.

So mithril offers (descriptively) the effectiveness of silver vs certain targets with the combined (augmented, even) strength of steel.

The game statistics may not reflect that in the form of numerical damage or anything, but 'realistically' it is an ideal substance to work with. However, the lack of weight would indeed make for a less effective weapon. I would say that, even on a mithril greataxe, your smithy would think to add some sort of lead core or some such to head.

Although it's not a real rule.

In my games Mithral doesn't rust.
And if you've played with me, I LOVE Rust Monsters!
That makes it quite popular as a result.

But there are exotic NON mithril weapons in the game that are two handed that also can be used with weapon finese. There is this two handed elven scimitar thing that can be used with weapon finese. And its not mithril. Just exotic weapon. So I think Mithril Weapons should do a lot more for the user. The cost doesnt really pay for itself. Isn't it like FIVE HUNDRED gold a pound? I know I liked the idea for Tian Xia of the elves having mithril katana they could use easily with weapon finese and just going to town on people.

Your weapon finesse interpretation is interesting.

That could make for an interesting house rule, but what if someone wanted a mithral Earthbreaker, and then finesse it ? That'd strain my brain.

Really though the DR Silver is a big deal.
Not being able to overcome DR is stress inducing.

I've always run a House Rule that states that Mithril weapons are immune to rust, and they have an affinity for electricity based enchantments (Shock, Shocking Burst) that reduces the price of those enchantments by 10%.

also makes it harder (Hard 15, HP 30/inch), counts as silver for DR, and doesn't have the damage penalty of an alchemical silver weapon.

There's little benefit for many weapons to be lighter. It's the combination of weight and edge that makes for damage. A weapon has to be designed to make use of finesse combat easily...making a battle-axe or warhammer lighter would probably reduce its effectiveness, not increase it.

==Aelryinth

right but if you think about it, you could have a war hammer 2 times the size made of mithril. that would just be scary to see flying at you.

Although it's not a real rule.

In my games Mithral doesn't rust.
And if you've played with me, I LOVE Rust Monsters!
That makes it quite popular as a result.

Why not just have them get made of Silversheen, then?

That counts as Silver for DR, is immune to rust, is way less expensive than Mithril, and you still don't take any penalties to hit.

The only real benefit to that house rule is that armor becomes immune to rusting while Mithril, and Mithril is one of the best materials to make armor with.

And if you really want to get scientific, anything that's not iron or an alloy of iron is immune to rusting.

Your weapon finesse interpretation is interesting.

That could make for an interesting house rule, but what if someone wanted a mithral Earthbreaker, and then finesse it ? That'd strain my brain.

Really though the DR Silver is a big deal.
Not being able to overcome DR is stress inducing.

Whats to strain your brain about? Let em if they have the cash. I could of sworn I read its 500 gold per pound. Earthbreaker is pretty big weapon so thats a TON of gold, then they gotta find someone who can even do that big of an order who has enough mithril. Also it might be fair to say two handed mithril weapons do not do STR +1/2 damage if made of mithril.

Otherwise maybe a really expensive enchant that makes the weapon very light to the user but it still hits with a lot of force?

Actually, if you're going to house rule it, Mithral allows a weapon one size category larger to be finessed, so a medium Mithral long sword can be finessed, but not a great sword. Another thought is the use of weapon templates. This comes from Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved, but it can be adjusted to use here...

Elven Weapon Template

The Elves are expert crafters of Light, yet strong weapons. Made with special lighter materials, superior forging techniques, and with a different balance, Elven weapons are lighter than their normal counterparts, weighing half as much as a weapon of similar type. Treat an Elven weapon of a character’s own size as a Light Weapon for that character. This template costs an additional 2,000 GP ( not including the Masterwork cost ), and can only be forged by a Master Elven Bladesmith. Lastly, these are considered Exotic weapons to use, except for Elves, who treat them as weapons of their normal category.

And if you really want to get scientific, anything that's not iron or an alloy of iron is immune to rusting.

But very few things, if any, are immune to oxidization, which is what rust is. Rust is just iron oxide. Other metals oxidize at different rates.

I found mitheral weapons come in handy if you have low strength. Even a pound of weight can make difference if you strength is too low.

Meh, I never use the damage penalty for alchemical silver weapons myself. It just seems silly. After all, you don't penalize the damage of wooden weapons. If I hit you with a silver light mace, I'm going to be doing 1 point less damage than a wooden club? I don't think so.

That said, all the above advantages of mithral apply. I don't see a problem with allowing Weapon Finesse for mithral weapons, considering the cost.

There's also the small character advantage. Sure, you don't want to make your scimitar mithral if you're medium-sized, because that's 2000 gp for a masterwork weapon that goes through silver DR. What if you're a gnome who uses a rapier though? Suddenly, it's only 500 gp for the same effect.

You need four mithral daggers for the material focus of Wreath of Blades.

I used to work under the assumption that mithril was basically the fantasy version of aluminum. Steel strength or better but lighter. I've heard that originally (before they learned to mass produce it cheaply) that bars of aluminum were more expensive than bars of gold of the same size and guarded carefully when they were displayed at a World's Fair. Can't source that right now though since I'm getting ready to head out of the house.

Nowadays I use mithril (mythril) as a conductor of magical energies for magitech devices in my steampunk campaign world.

While it has virtually no mechanical benefit, Mithral weapons are more valuable thus they become status symbols. Weapons as fashion is nothing new. It is entirely conceivable that for RP purposes a fighter may want a Mithral sword for no other reason than to quietly show off to the other fighters.
Kind of like a Mercedez Benz.

Meh, I never use the damage penalty for alchemical silver weapons myself. It just seems silly. After all, you don't penalize the damage of wooden weapons. If I hit you with a silver light mace, I'm going to be doing 1 point less damage than a wooden club? I don't think so.

That said, all the above advantages of mithral apply. I don't see a problem with allowing Weapon Finesse for mithral weapons, considering the cost.

The alchemical silver damage penalty only applies to slashing and piercing weapons.

Aluminum is still a valuable commodity. While it is nowhere near the value of rare metals like gold, that's an issue of commodity markets and speculation.
Last I checked Aircraft Aluminum was more than twice the price of steel.

Shadowborn wrote:

Meh, I never use the damage penalty for alchemical silver weapons myself. It just seems silly. After all, you don't penalize the damage of wooden weapons. If I hit you with a silver light mace, I'm going to be doing 1 point less damage than a wooden club? I don't think so.

That said, all the above advantages of mithral apply. I don't see a problem with allowing Weapon Finesse for mithral weapons, considering the cost.

The alchemical silver damage penalty only applies to slashing and piercing weapons.

Meh, still don't use it.

Hmm ok, yeah there ARE elves in Tian Xia so I can add elven made weapons as a new type of weapon as well and have rumors about the very light, yet still strong and well made Katana's of the elves...

MagiMaster wrote:

Shadowborn wrote:

Meh, I never use the damage penalty for alchemical silver weapons myself. It just seems silly. After all, you don't penalize the damage of wooden weapons. If I hit you with a silver light mace, I'm going to be doing 1 point less damage than a wooden club? I don't think so.

That said, all the above advantages of mithral apply. I don't see a problem with allowing Weapon Finesse for mithral weapons, considering the cost.

The alchemical silver damage penalty only applies to slashing and piercing weapons.

Meh, still don't use it.

Not to derail the thread, but you're not really supposed to use silver weapons unless you're fighting something with a known silver vulnerability and can't afford enough mithral or magic to overcome it. (I would also assume that silver is easier to obtain in a pinch.)

Small mithril daggers only cost 250gp but still give you the +1 to hit of a masterwork weapon, and all the benefits of mithril.

Small mithril daggers only cost 250gp but still give you the +1 to hit of a masterwork weapon, and all the benefits of mithril.

True... I know what my halfling magus' backup weapon is going to be now. Although I was thinking mithral cestus instead.

Shadowborn wrote:

MagiMaster wrote:

Shadowborn wrote:

Meh, I never use the damage penalty for alchemical silver weapons myself. It just seems silly. After all, you don't penalize the damage of wooden weapons. If I hit you with a silver light mace, I'm going to be doing 1 point less damage than a wooden club? I don't think so.

That said, all the above advantages of mithral apply. I don't see a problem with allowing Weapon Finesse for mithral weapons, considering the cost.

The alchemical silver damage penalty only applies to slashing and piercing weapons.

Meh, still don't use it.

Not to derail the thread, but you're not really supposed to use silver weapons unless you're fighting something with a known silver vulnerability and can't afford enough mithral or magic to overcome it. (I would also assume that silver is easier to obtain in a pinch.)

I'll be a little more forthcoming. It's alchemical silver, not just silver. I'm assuming that means an alchemical process to bond silver to the weapon, or to alloy it so that the silver is predominant. Which means there's no real reason an alchemical silver weapon should be less effective, unlike a weapon crafted of pure silver.

Also, this feels like a mismatched ruling. If armor decreased damage via a DR property as a regular mechanic, then I'd be willing to reduce the damage for silver weapons. But that's not the way it works in Pathfinder. Armor only affects the chance to score a hit.

And if you really want to get scientific, anything that's not iron or an alloy of iron is immune to rusting.

Very untrue. Many metals are far more susceptible to corrosion than iron alloys.

Take Magnesium for example. It corrodes if you even think about taking it near salt water. (I spent several years doing corrosion control on magnesium turrets while in the Navy.)

As for silversheen - it is less durable than steel.

Aluminum is still a valuable commodity. While it is nowhere near the value of rare metals like gold, that's an issue of commodity markets and speculation.

Last I checked Aircraft Aluminum was more than twice the price of steel.

I can't remember which king or emperor impressed the gallery by having his prime guests dine with aluminum cutlery. The rest of the 'unlucky ones' had to content with mere gold...

[edit] apparently it was Napoleon III, circa 1855.

'findel

The founder of ALCOA was inspired by his chemistry teacher, who told his class that if some way could be found to cheaply seperate aluminum from bauxite, they'd be wealthy men.

He found that running massive amounts of current through bauxite in water seperated it out, and went on to become a very wealthy man.

Read the original War of the Worlds. At one part of book, the protagnist is watching the invaders lift shining bars of metal out of a pit, and they realize that the invaders are mining pure aluminum!

:)

Aluminum oxidizes pretty quickly in salt water, too, and so does titanium (there was a ship's propellor that they made out of titanium alloy...after one trip back and forth across the ocean, they had to drydock the ship...and parts of that massive propellor were eaten right through by the salt water). Aluminum oxidizes in air, too, but that first layer that 'turns' sticks to the rest of the metal and protects it from further corroision. Powder the aluminum, and it'll corrode pretty quickly.

Or add mercury (IIRC). That dissolves the oxide layer and the aluminum is quickly eaten away. They don't allow mercury on aircraft for a very good reason.

Not sure why this website repeats the same thing so many times but it talks about what I mentioned on aluminum.

http://209.62.124.59/Centennial_Exposition/Exposition_Universelle.html

"aluminum was more valuable than gold; bars of aluminum were exhibited alongside the French crown jewels at the Exposition Universelle (1855)."

I think it's kind of funny now that people just drink out of it and toss it out their car windows for people like me to pick up and recycle for a few dozen pennies per pound.

I found mitheral weapons come in handy if you have low strength. Even a pound of weight can make difference if you strength is too low.

Even if you don't have low Str, weapon weight can add up quickly. Characters in the medium Str range (14-ish) benefit a lot from shaving off a few pounds of gear.

Slightly off of topic, but I just watched a "Mythbusters" episode where they used silver bullets. The silver bullets SUCKED, and could not even properly penetrate even close to lead or copper.

Not back to your regularly scheduled diatribe.

I always thought mithral was titanium. It's stronger than steel and half the weight. In the same vein(heh) I treat adamantine as depleted uranium.

Im kind of hitting two related topics with the same question here but where does it say that mithral is a substitute for silver for the purpose of penetrating DR?

I cant find it in the rules anywhere.

BTW Pomkin, I feel the same about mithral (its titanium or rather more of a process or alloy than a pure metal) and similar about adamantine (heavy, dark, dense... only difference being the total lack of radiation or uranium dust ^_^. )

Mithral: Mithral is a very rare silvery, glistening metal that is lighter than steel but just as hard. When worked like steel, it becomes a wonderful material from which to create armor, and is occasionally used for other items as well. Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light. This decrease does not apply to proficiency in wearing the armor. A character wearing mithral full plate must be proficient in wearing heavy armor to avoid adding the armor's check penalty to all his attack rolls and skill checks that involve moving. Spell failure chances for armors and shields made from mithral are decreased by 10%, maximum Dexterity bonuses are increased by 2, and armor check penalties are decreased by 3 (to a minimum of 0).

An item made from mithral weighs half as much as the same item made from other metals. In the case of weapons, this lighter weight does not change a weapon's size category or the ease with which it can be wielded (whether it is light, one-handed, or two-handed). Items not primarily of metal are not meaningfully affected by being partially made of mithral. (A longsword can be a mithral weapon, while a quarterstaff cannot.) Mithral weapons count as silver for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

and THERE you go.

thanks.

moment of hilarity... i never read that scentence to the end because it starts out just talking about its application in metal vs wood.

I house rule that mostly mithral ranged weapons- sling bullets, thrown daggers, throwing axes, etc. get a bonus 10 feet to their range.

Aside from it being lighter and counting as silver for bypassing DR, there's also the fact that it's cool. Shouldn't discount doing things simply for style, after all, style is the only thing separating adventurers from murderous psychos with a penchant for grave robbing.

I house rule that mostly mithral ranged weapons- sling bullets, thrown daggers, throwing axes, etc. get a bonus 10 feet to their range.

At a certain point, effective range is based more on inertia than weight - so sometimes heavier means better range.

See filling an (American) football with air vs. filling it with helium - the air filled ball has better flight range. (See Mythbusters for evidence.)

Aside from it being lighter and counting as silver for bypassing DR, there's also the fact that it's cool. Shouldn't discount doing things simply for style, after all, style is the only thing separating adventurers from murderous psychos with a penchant for grave robbing.....

Heh, I'm putting this in my sig on other gaming forums I belong to. Especially Kenzer & Company.

Anyone else think its stupid that all a mithril weapon does is make it lighter? For how much cash it costs to make a mithril weapon, I think it should at least qualify for weapon finese...

Mithril's primary use has always been armor. Mithril weapons appeal mainly to the following two types.

Strength Dumping Finesse meleeists.

Werewolf hunters who don't want a damage penalty.

voodoo chili wrote:

I house rule that mostly mithral ranged weapons- sling bullets, thrown daggers, throwing axes, etc. get a bonus 10 feet to their range.

At a certain point, effective range is based more on inertia than weight - so sometimes heavier means better range.

See filling an (American) football with air vs. filling it with helium - the air filled ball has better flight range. (See Mythbusters for evidence.)

yeah, that makes sense. lead shot is gonna be better than aluminum shot.

Thanks alot for the dose of reality ; P

Mithral is also good vs. lesser devils. I've got a devil hunter with a pair of mithral daggers.

and a Qadiran pirate with a mithral scimitar just because he's got style!

I agree to the comments on adding the ability to take 'finesse' with mithril weapons, it bothers me that it dose not reduce the damage of blunt weapons that rely on weight to deal damage. This is a major oversight in my opinion.