DM Alexander Kilcoyne's Kingmaker PBP- Chapter 3

Game Master Alexander Kilcoyne

not many special features

What do you mean? He gets X-Ray vision next level!

But yeah, they are less capable of dealing the same level of damage a pure fighter can achieve.

Oh yeah James, forget my random MSN ramblings about the Smite Chaos. Somehow I missed this line (you will want to add the bolded bit to your profile)-

This ability functions as the paladin's smite evil ability, but against chaotic-aligned creatures. This ability is twice as effective against outsiders with the chaotic subtype, chaotic-aligned aberrations, and fey.

Excitedly awaiting my custom trait... it is like Christmas come early(er)! :)

What do you mean? He gets X-Ray vision next level!

Funnily enough, that's pretty much exactly how I tracked down Gregori. Ricter had a splitting headache after using detect chaos on a good chunk of the buildings in Swordhaven.

Ah, we have a love potion now. That's the last time I drink from anything other than my own waterskin.

I've been thinking about Leadership again, with seventh level looming.

I'd like to get people's thoughts on the following option- here are my thoughts-

1. As written, I will simply not allow the leadership feat. I've been down that road before and extra cohorts only a little less powerful than you coming along is something I am simply not happy with. What I do normally compromise on is a 'stay-at-home' cohort and the use of a network of followers for tasks. However, the second mechanic is mostly covered by the kingdom rules anyway. This option will also give you access to item crafting, although I am still going to retain the 100% cost to keep you in acceptable WBL. If you like the sound of this, i'll offer a second opportunity for anyone with item creation feats to trade them out (I believe thats just Fenna).

2. It feels like playing Batman in its mechanics, which is cool (at least, Arkham City anyway).

3. It gives me something to do with Ilya!

Drum Roll...

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Rather than gain a single cohort and a slew of followers who go adventuring with you, the Leadership feat gives you access to three skilled characters (negotiable but one arcane and one divine caster is recommended) who are willing allies and associates, but explicitly unable or unwilling to risk their lives in front-line adventuring.

How It Works: The character with Leadership is considered to have a small team of supporters supporting him from a safe location (be that a friendly city, a guild hall, a king’s court, a pirate’s ship, a traveler’s caravan, or the character’s own stronghold). Access to these characters allows the character to have spells cast, magic items created, and research performed – but only when he can make it back to their safe location.

When the character is at this safe location, he can gain any of the following benefits:

• Information or services that can be obtained with any Intelligence-based skill (including all Knowledge skills) with a skill bonus equal to the character’s Leadership score (to a maximum of the character’s level +8). One skill check can be made each day.

• The casting of any spell available to one divine and one arcane spellcasting class (normally a cleric and a wizard) of half the character’s Leadership score or less (to a maximum of half the character’s level), with a caster level equal to the character’s Leadership score (to a maximum of the character’s class level). While there is no cost for the spellcasting itself, the character does have to pay for any expensive material components required, and pay the initial cost of any any expensive focus. A total number of spell levels equal to the character’s Leadership score may be cast each day.

• The creation of magic items that could be created by one divine and one arcane character class (normally a cleric and a wizard) of a level equal to half the character’s Leadership score (to a maximum of half the character’s level). All item creation feats available to a spellcaster of this level are considered to be available. Such items must require a Spellcraft check with a DC of 10 + the character’s Leadership score or less to create. Items can be created for 100% of the normal cost, but this must be paid in advance. Creation of such items takes the normal enchanting time, but enchanting can continue after the character leaves the safe location (and thus the item may be waiting for the character when he next returns). Only a single item can be on order at a time.

Benefit for the Character: While you don’t have the firepower of a cohort standing next to you while adventuring, you do get more between adventures support than a single cohort could provide you. The ability to have questions answered, afflictions removed, and items crafted gives you a significant benefit, without slowing down adventure encounters. Additionally, while your allies may not be able to directly aid you in combat, they also aren’t at risk of being killed (forcing you to spend resources to restore them, or to find a new cohort).

Benefit for the GM: You don’t have to deal with a cohort in combat, or track where a slew of followers are. While some notes about these allies will aid with roleplaying encounters with them, they do not require a full set of combat-ready character sheets. The safe location selected as home for the character’s allies becomes a natural base of operations for the PCs, and if an adventure gets derailed it’s easy to use the allies’ connections and lore to put the PCs back on the right track without adding a conspicuous or contrived new source of information.

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Please give me your thoughts as I think this is a great solution to what I personally want out of leadership in the game.

In other news... The newer AP's (up to Jade Regent) have had images added from the AP. I plan to give the NPC's their facelifts today :).

Facelift!

Facelift! (He could return, you never know...)

Can't post as Sootscales but hes had a facelift.

I like the feat Alex. Very nice! One more thing I may use in my own games. :)

One question. If one PC takes the feat, can other PCs tap into his/her "team" (with permission) or will that be frowned upon? They will only cast spells, share info and craft items for the PC with the feat?

PS I like the idea that 7th level is "looming"! ;)

PSS And when I saw the instruction to check the OOC thread, I was expecting the custom traits! This is good too! :)

I'm also a fan of using Leadership this way - I see a fully fledged "Spy Team" in the near future.

I think most of us would like to make our own fully fleshed out NPC's. But if I'm reading the rules right, we shouldn't bother with making a complete character - just fluff, with a note of which class the character is.

You ouldn't make a fully fledged character no, its a little more abstract.

I'm ok with "team-sharing".

Awarded XP- 2,400

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Armour of Persistence-

Kip's refusal to remove his trusty chain shirt under any circumstances despite the mishaps it frequently causes has taught him to recover a botched spell just in the nick of time and change his awkward motions to compensate. His arcane spell failure is reduced by 10% in armour of any kind. In addition, his persistence and luck seems to rub off onto his allies from time to time, especially after taking down the cult of Gyronna (accompanied by Sootscales), using more than his fair share of luck. When rolling a saving throw alongside an ally when using his Lucky Halfling feat, he may re-roll once if he chooses before the result is declared.

Enforcer of Law-

Ricter's brutal takedown of the famed orator Grigori and his efforts smiting the chaotic elements of the Stolen Lands have only strengthened his resolve to bring law and order underneath his armoured boot. His conviction in his cause has grown and manifested into an iron will that refuses to bend. Henceforth, Ricter adds his charisma bonus to all saving throws, exactly like the Divine Grace feature of a Paladin. His unwavering pursuit of Grigori has also given him a fearsome reputation within Kardas- when in claimed territory, he gains a +2 bonus to all intimidate checks.

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These have changed since original conception and I welcome feedback on them.

Thanks Alex! I like it! You nailed Kip! :)

Wow. I see what you mean about it being a little strong. I, of course, am not complaining. I particularly like how the intimidate bonus requires me to be in a civilized area.

Grigori will stay dead if he knows what's good for him...

If you scroll back far enough you'll see the others are pretty strong too. They are meant to be a little more powerful than a feat for everyone, but in your case I am compensating a little as I feel the Hellknights have amazing fluff but are a little mechanically weak.

Leadership feat looks pretty useful for this type of game and for our party even more so...not sure if I will take it, still trying to think about what I would like for a 7th level feat.

Anyone interested in possibly talking about taking a teamwork feat? Ricter, Shield Wall might be pretty good for us? Any other thoughts?

Ricter, Shield Wall might be pretty good for us? Any other thoughts?

I am very much up for that. The white knight/black knight duo is worth a feat to back it up.

Also, am I right in saying I can swap feats again now Alex? If so, covering defence is getting swapped for missile shield. Not certain what un-logic made me decide to take covering defence over missile shield in the first place.

I thought Shield Wall would be very nice for the two of you myself some time back.

Bear in mind Ricter can use a tower shield if he wishes to as he has fighter levels.

Ok it seem like theres no cry of outrage for the leadership feat change I proposed- motion carries.

Just confirming the treasure list since Malthir's last loot split... anything missing? ;)

Some house rules added (See Campaign Info) that i've been meaning to add for some time.

You really don't like Kip using Bestow Grace huh? :)

Its been put in as a house rule for all of my games, its nothing personal to Kip :). Its very clear to me from the spell and description that they never thought about this spell in potion form.

APG has surprisingly few spells I am shifty about so I am permissive in nature with the spells inside. As these spells I am not familiar with see play i have chances to vet them as necessary.

The main reason I don't allow UM is i'm not willing to have to make house rules to all of the god awful spells in there (Terrible Remorse immediately springs to mind).

Maladin can always give Kip bestow grace via spell or potion anyway so its not like that door is closed forever.

So what Kip needs to do then is get a wand of bestow grace instead. He then only needs to make one UMD check at DC 20 instead of one at DC 20 and one at DC 30. Or he can ask Malthir to use it on him. :)

Kip is a valid target for the spell, being a good creature after all. ;)

When activating a wand, you still need to meet the other UMD requirements- the check to use the wand is just to pretend its on your spell list and can thus cast it.

So you'd need a DC22 UMD check to emulate the class abilities of a second level Paladin and a DC30 check to emulate Lawful Good.

I'd just give Malthir the wand ;).

I would think that the lawful and divine grace components of the equation would be handled by the creator of the wand during crafting, by virtue of the crafting prerequisites...

Does this mean that many other wands/potions/etc will now require multiple UMD checks if the effect is based off of unique class abilities/alignments/etc? For Kip to use a wand of CLW, or even a potion for that matter, will require multiple UMD checks? Much like bestow grace, CLW includes a bit about channeling positive energy.

Just worried about the possible unforeseen ramifications. :)

Edit: Re-read your question. As always, if a spell etc. requires unique class abilities and alignments then yes, you will need to UMD those elements too.

These kinds of spells are pretty rare though. CLW is fine, it doesn't require any of those things.

Your making this more complicated than it needs to be, i'm adding unique requirements to a single spell not re-writing the rulebook.

So you just dislike Bestow Grace as a spell for balance reasons? :)

Don't mind me, I am just stressed out. We bought a new acreage this week (kind of on a whim) and now I am trying to get my current house sale ready by this Friday!

*wanders off*

;)

I think its just very clear that you have to be a Paladin or have a damn good ability to fake it to cast it. You are literally touching others and filling them with your Divine Grace class feature. You need to be able to HAVE or fool the item/spell in question into thinking that you have the class feature.

I do not feel I am house ruling here. See what UMD'ing a wand does-

"Normally, to use a wand, you must have the wand's spell on your class spell list. This use of the skill allows you to use a wand as if you had a particular spell on your class spell list. Failing the roll does not expend a charge."

Here is the spell description-

"With this spell you can bestow your divine grace on another good creature for a short amount of time, infusing that creature with a portion of your holy virtue. When you touch the subject, you grant that creature a sacred bonus to its saving throws equal to its Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws."

Even if you have Bestow Grace on your spell list, you can cast it all day but if you don't have the Divine Grace to bestow on someone, its useless to you.

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Why I don't like it/want to change it-

1. Its an incredibly powerful spell, especially for its level, which makes it cheap to buy or craft. Saving throws are classically very hard to raise or optimise and giving your entire party a way to add another stat to all saving throws is very, very potent.

2. Theres no evil equivalent- not even for anti-paladins.

3. It seems to me that the designers only thought about this spell in the context of a Paladin casting it; never considered its use as a potion etc.

4. Its a godamn sacred bonus, so Malthir can get double cha on his saving throws...

If this is all getting too complex i'll happily just hit it with my banhammer :/. I've been tempted to do so anyway...

Alexander,

I've been following this game for quite some time, and outright stolen a couple of your ideas for my home Kingmaker campaign. Thanks! I am looking to steal one more, heheh.

In my previous campaign the Leadership feat was very abused by one player, no longer in the group, so I outright banned it. Looking at what you have written, I may un-ban it, however, I have some questions on your redo.

My guys are now 4th level, so this will be a while yet. The Baron, who will be a Paladin6/Cavalier1 and is not an abuser of stuff, would have a Leadership score of 13, so, and lets say he has a rogue, cleric and wizard as home base cohorts.

Knowledge checks would be d20 + 13?

Spells could be cast up to 3rd level spells as a 7th level caster (max of 1/2 character level)?

Item creation would be as a 3rd level caster? (this one is really confusing to me).

Thanks for your time,

-- david
Papa.DRB

Hi David- I should note its not my own original content (the Leadership feat change).

Your conclusions are all correct yup. I should note that in the original content, crafting is at 75% (so PC's craft at 50%, the allies gained through leadership craft at 75% (so discounted, but still worth their time)).

The bit that isn't particularly specified is the spellcraft check the characters have to make. I would keep this abstract- their character level +6 (so if your crew back in base are 3rd level, their spellcraft check to create items would be +9). This is how I am planning on handling this part myself.

Like we discussed previously on IM, this is your game and I'm cool with whatever you decide. I truly am. Don't get stressed out by me. :)

For the reasons you listed above, you could hit Bestow Grace with the ban hammer and you would have no argument from me. Which I also previously mentioned on IM I believe. :)

I was just pointing out that by that logic, CLW potions wouldn't function as before because "you channel positive energy" as part of its mechanics. I don't see the distinction between infusing someone with divine grace and infusing someone with (divine) positive energy. The recipient is largely irrelevant IMO.

But again, don't mind me. Lets fight some trolls! :)

Alexander,

Ah. I think I get it now, but just to make sure. When the PC is 7th level, the cohorts will be effectively 7th level for spell casting purposes and 3rd level for item creation?

So, at 7th level PC, they would have Create Wondrous Item only? or am I mis-reading what you mean?

thanks,

-- david
Papa.DRB

Oh, and I use the Making Craft Work by Spes Magna Games for my "basic" crafting rules.

Yeah, pretty much. They'd only have craft wondrous item as they wouldn't be treated as high level enough for the other item creation feats yet.

Edit: Well, they'd have Scribe Scroll and Brew Potion too.

Ok, got it. Thanks for the clarification. Now to work with my guys !

-- david
Papa.DRB

Malthir can double his saving throws??? starts to lick his chops... :)

Malthir can double his saving throws??? starts to lick his chops... :)

*slaps palm on forehead*

:)

Like we discussed previously on IM, this is your game and I'm cool with whatever you decide. I truly am. Don't get stressed out by me. :)

For the reasons you listed above, you could hit Bestow Grace with the ban hammer and you would have no argument from me. Which I also previously mentioned on IM I believe. :)

I was just pointing out that by that logic, CLW potions wouldn't function as before because "you channel positive energy" as part of its mechanics. I don't see the distinction between infusing someone with divine grace and infusing someone with (divine) positive energy. The recipient is largely irrelevant IMO.

But again, don't mind me. Lets fight some trolls! :)

Except drinking a potion never requires a UMD roll ;)

Don't like having to fiddle with the rules so much to make this spell something i'm happy to work with. *Hits Bestow Grace with banhammer*.

They just hate you because your beautiful Kip.

And small...

I know eh? Why is it always the small and attractive who suffer most? :)

So, still waiting for actions from everyone except Malthir and Casimir. I know its the winter period and i expect slower post rates but lets try and get one round done every week or so :).

Just waiting for my turn, for now. I don't want to post ahead of people until we have a better idea of what's going on.

Those were my thoughts as well... but I will go post my actions right now.

This is where all the smart IT people hang out, right? I bought a new router today. Anything I need to know before I unplug the old wireless network and try to set up a new one? It was a pain when I first set up the old one, but the guy at the Best Buy swears it's gotten easier over the last ten years (and actually laughed at me when I told him how old our old router is).

Shouldn't be a big problem, I assume it comes with a CD and some easy instructions?

Passwords on the secured connections are still rather easy to crack so once the network is actually set up you might just want to add the MAC addresses of the laptops you want on the network which means no one else will be able to access your network except the PC's you have specifically taken steps to allow.

Very secure but IS a little complex.

I suspect Malthir (terok) may have more/better advice on this subject.

I just replaced mine about 6 weeks ago with a Cisco 1500N wireless Router. It was quite a bit easier than my original Linksys from 7 years ago.
Was pretty much just plug and play other than logging in the computers to the new network with the secure password.
The one I bought has a partitioned Wireless connection for guests which separates them from your secure network and has a simple password login to just get on the internet with no other rights.
I opted for the normal secure network and encryption, if someone can hack that you have more problems then them hacking your network...you have someone with time and skills on their hands who could probably wreck your life... :) be afraid, be very afraid...

Can I use the same network name and password as the old one, or will that just confuse things?