Clebsch GM Wrath of the Righteous Adventure Path

Game Master Clebsch73

Oh, believe me, this has definitely felt tense! We've been using a ton of resources, and even then we got lucky in a few spots.

I'm enjoying myself! Thank you so much for running such a complicated combat so thoroughly and accurately, GM!

Does Tauni do anything differently based on the response to her question about the tent? Does she want to move?

This battle did not shape up to be as close as I thought it would be. You took out the two biggest and baddest enemies with critical hits in the first round and they've been at a disadvantage every since. They still have some options if they can keep fighting, but you've definitely got the upper hand.

Thank you, yes. I moved her icon on the map to the southwest.

It has certainly felt tough. It seemed like at any time we could totally get taken down.

I agree with the last two posts. I've been on edge the whole battle. Even if we win, we are basically wiped for the day. It's been hotly contested!

Completely agreed!

Same. This battle has been lengthy, nerve-wracking, and exciting. It's been exhausting! It really feels like we've had to fight hard to earn a victory here.

Yeah! One crit from Leriel's polearm would have insta-killed any one of us. I think it was a x3 weapon, which would have meant like 6d8+21 or something on a confirmed crit.

I am sure if I was part of this battle it would have been difficult ;)

I did have a difficult time deciding whether to just run away after being Commanded. Had to get into character, really think about if Franti's prime motivation right now is just surviving and escaping this ordeal.

I have a number of things to get done before I'll be able to post. Look for something this evening. Then I'll be busy for most of the weekend but should be able to post Sunday evening next.

I will try to get Karas' action in before I get lost in the apocalypse this weekend. If not, then Sunday evening is my availability

Back from the wastes! :)

Sorry to interrupt the flow, but depending on how the spell description is interpreted, Karas either is stunned or his second attack takes out the sorcerer. Didn't want to retcon again.

The spell in question is Stunning Barrier.

The spell description is: "You are closely surrounded by a barely visible magical field. The field provides a +1 deflection bonus to AC and a +1 resistance bonus on saves. Any creature that strikes you with a melee attack is stunned for 1 round (Will negates). Once the field has stunned an opponent, the spell is discharged."

Read literally, since Karas' made his will save against the spell when his first hit connected, the spell has not yet stunned an opponent, so it has not been discharged.

Would anyone want to argue that the intention of the spell effect is that it discharges when the first save has to be made, whether the opponent was stunned or not?

If the effect is not discharged by Karas' first hit, he would have the option to hold back and not attack him a second time or attack Nizza.

As the spell seems underpowered by any other reading, I think I'd go with your literal reading. That's just at first glance, and I'm only going by feel thinking about it.

RAW, I agree with both you and Ellena. No one was stunned, thus the discharge never happened. If it said something along the lines of "once attacked, this spell is discharged" or "once triggered," I'd be inclined to diagree, but I think the wording here is only if/when the stunning actually occurs.

Tauni, if you get this spell, couple it with your Scale-tuary, and possibly maybe Mirror Image and the mythic ability "Mirror dodge" you have an absolutely nasty defense. Nigh untouchable.

They'd need to beat the CL 19 Scale-tuary will save, then roll and beat your AC to hit (low, but still), then get past a Mirror Image (so 20-50% chance of hitting), and even then you can burn a Mythic Point avoid it flat OR take the melee hit and leave them stunned.

I'd say the spell stays active until someone has failed their save against it. (Its big brother, greater stunning barrier, is even scarier.) Either way, the caster still suffers the damage from the triggering attack.

Yeah! One crit from Leriel's polearm would have insta-killed any one of us. I think it was a x3 weapon, which would have meant like 6d8+21 or something on a confirmed crit.

It killed my boyfriend's paladin from full health in the game I'm GMing - and she wasn't even enlarged.

So as I read it, the spell is not discharged so I would have to make the second save. That said I also read it as the attack would still go through whether or not I get stunned by the "struck with an attack" wording.

I'd still intend to end Scariani so I would press the attack. I just think the attack would still hit before it stunned me.

Regarding Leriel, I gave her an extra level of fighter and combat reflexes, which made her a little tougher. I had planned on enlarging the barbarian, who would have done more damage but would not have had reach.

Thanks for the guidance on the spell. Most spells discharge whether the save is made or not, so I wanted to be sure.

Huh, and here I thought Leriel and Co were just for this game. Not sure why I didn't think they were a formal part of this adventure path. I can imagine this being brutal if the rolls weren't in our favor and if weren't a party of six + NPCs.

Have we killed anything with the exception of the undead creature, a couple bugs and a viper familiar? I don't think I've ever been involved in a game with people not eager to go on a murder spree.

During the fight where Leriel escaped, her partner, a cleric of Deskari was killed. Everyone else was kept alive, which is totally appropriate.

This is not an encounter the module suggested, but since I know some have played or at least read through the AP, I wanted something different. Leriel is was one of the cultists that you encountered in the Lair of the Vile and Vicious (which is where I presume the paladin's death occurred that Anarya mentioned). I figured when she escaped, she'd be expecting you to perhaps make it to the city and she organized this welcoming party, hoping to put you down and curry favor with the army attempting to occupy the city. The cat familiar of the sorcerer watched at one of the sewer grates she knew you would have to pass and it warned the party to set up their ambush.

@GM Add me to the consensus on stunning barrier. I've never read it another way. Also, great job on making a good combat! You went through a lot of effort and it really paid off. Mad respect for you right now <3

@Anarya Aww, damn D:
It is kinda funny though that all the couples I know that run games for each other tend to kill each other's characters haha. Luckily nobody I know has taken it personally yet.

@Franti
We really have been very good about not killing people; you're right! It makes me happy :)

I feel like too often media glosses over just how big of a deal it is to kill someone, which makes it feel cheap. I try to always have nonlethal options on my good characters for that reason. Heck, my PFS paladin/oracle once spent four rounds of combat just casting stabilize on people that attacked us because of a misunderstanding.

Leriel is was one of the cultists that you encountered in the Lair of the Vile and Vicious (which is where I presume the paladin's death occurred that Anarya mentioned).

That's correct. I decided to spare his character, since we both love him, by having the Terendelev Scale he was holding shatter in his hands and target him with a CL 19th breath of life - but thereafter all the other scales were weakened, dropping to CL 15th. (That is not a published part of the AP - we don't have any such lifeline, though Hero Points are more than enough of a stand-in.)

Our Leriel did not survive. Their group is very different from ours - his paladin worships Ragathiel, so he went on a smite-eviling rampage after his momentary death and ran her through. The second most devout party member is a half-orc Spiritualist/Shaman (our group is Gestalt) who worships Gorum.

@Anarya Aww, damn D:

It is kinda funny though that all the couples I know that run games for each other tend to kill each other's characters haha. Luckily nobody I know has taken it personally yet.

He has not yet managed to kill any of mine - though he GMs mostly in PFS and my PFS characters tend to run on the optimized side of things.

Years ago I ran a non-violent cleric who would heal anyone who was injured, including enemies. He usually didn't heal enemies in the heat of battle, but one time a bully type character was having a kind of duel with another PC and the PC nearly killed the bully until my character healed the bully who got back up and started fighting again. I did not win much goodwill for my character then, but it is something that was fun to role play and close to my heart personally.

I am looking forward to situations where acts of kindness toward evil enemies will be paid back with eventual atonement. Wenduag might be one of the first depending on how things go in upcoming adventures. Life should not be cheap.

Frodo: [of Gollum] It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance.
Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.

Indeed.

Frodo: [of Gollum] It's a pity Bilbo didn't kill him when he had the chance.

Gandalf: Pity? It was pity that stayed Bilbo's hand. Many that live deserve death. Some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them, Frodo? Do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. Even the very wise cannot see all ends. My heart tells me that Gollum has some part to play yet, for good or ill before this is over. The pity of Bilbo may rule the fate of many.

Possibly my favorite line in all of Lord of the Rings, and one of the first things which made me rethink my "kill everything" mentality in D&D when I was younger.

Back into combat and I break out a 30 on an attack roll! CALL ME "FOOL" NOW, ELLENA!

IMPORTANT EDIT: If Karas cannot threaten as he is stunned (not explicit in rules, but I presume that he cannot threaten which I didn't take into consideration when attacking), I am instead moving one square south, flanking with Ellena, initiating the "Prankster and Paladin" Attack Order rather than the "Buffoon and the Barbarian."

I will not let that roll go to waste, but due to this mistake of mine, you can call me a fool once more now, Ellena :)

You'll need to execute the daring and dangerous 2X PALADIN/ROGUE DOUBLE REACHAROUND maneuver, because sadly Stunned characters do not threaten.

Lol, we will tag team the heck out them, Franti!

It hardly matters, as 28 hits an AC 16 as well as a 30.

I believe I lose my action this round.

That's what I thought as well.

Umm I'll take my action but I thought I was supposed to lose it for being stunned.

I get tripped up by trying to figure out when a spell that lasts 1 round begins and ends. In this case the spell first affected Karas toward the end of his action in the last round. So would it last though to the beginning of his next action, ending at the start of the action of the person after him in initiative? Or would it up to the start of his next round and through to the start of the round after that?

If it is the latter, it is effectively just short of 2 rounds in duration. In which case a duration of 1 round really means 1 full round from the point it takes effect to the end of the target's next full round.

Well I'll be darned. Clebsch is right.

Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.

Karas gets his action. That absolutely makes me convinced that stunning barrier is supposed to prevent an attack's damage.

I love that this game helps me get an even more robust interpretation of the rules. :)

Well I'll be darned. Clebsch is right.

Quote:

Effects that last a certain number of rounds end just before the same initiative count that they began on.

Karas gets his action. That absolutely makes me convinced that stunning barrier prevents an attack's damage.

Okay, so Karas gets an action, but on the "not taking damage" I am not so sure. The attack hit, the caster has been struck, damage should be rolled and applied. Even with that lesser interpretation, the stun is still a good condition, if only until their next round.

Imagine if this happened to Ellena a bit earlier in the fight: she hits, deals damage, but is now stunned. She has to drop her weapon (as stunned creature do), is denied dexterity, and more susceptible to combat maneuvers. On her next round, she must pick up her weapon (provoking) and not allowing her to do anything more than pick up and swing.

If they had a rogue, even if it was for one turn, it could be nasty, and be the set up for a flanking maneuver and a couple/few sneak attacks. Done properly with this stun, I could probably get out ~50 damage (Sneak Attack TWF and Provoke Attack) in a turn on such a foe, and then when they pick up their weapon and hit me, I have two more flanking strikes waiting for them.

If we had multiple attacks going on, then Ellena could essentially be losing two full round actions (stunned after first attack, can't Fullround after picking up blade), instead taking two standards, remaining still and possibly losing a tactical placement, is more easily hit while stunned, and provoking from grabbing her blade.

If stunning barrier didn't prevent the damage (which is actually how I'd be running it in a game I GM'd), it would be very weak if all it did was stun them UNTIL their turn. I think the intention of the spell is that it does NOT block the damage, but DOES deny the foe their next full turn. A legalistic reading of the rules, though, leans towards an interpretation of it ending immediately prior to the attacker's next turn.

Either interpretation has its merits. But if it neither blocks the damage nor makes the attacker lose a turn, it's really not much more than a "save or be disarmed" spell. Most combatants would never miss a single action, despite being "stunned for 1 round."

I have to agree with Anarya on this one, even though the reading of it says the opposite. I'd always assumed stunned condition denies the victim their next round's action.

As did I, but I will defer to however it gets ruled.

Well I'll be darned. Clebsch is right.

"Always the tone of surprise." --Hermoine and Ron

As I said earlier, either interpretation of Stunning Barrier could be correct. It is a 1st level spell that provides just a 1 point improvement to AC and saves for a few rounds, which would otherwise be more like a 0th level spell (considering Mage Armor and Shield provide +4 for a lot longer than 1 round/level). If damage got through and then the spell stuns the attacker, the sorcerer gets an effect that is similar to the 0th level spell Daze. Do 2 0th level effects add up to a 1st level effect?

Another angle, the attacker as to roll a save to avoid being stunned whether the attack succeeds or not. So it is the act of attacking that triggers the spell to discharge.

I think the save ought to be made as soon as the player says, "I'm attacking the wizard." If he fails the save, he is stunned. If he succeeds the save, then he rolls his attack to see if it hits. This implies the spell goes off as soon as the attacker starts his attack. This way it has a chance of preventing the attack but at the expense of discharging the spell. It gives the user a brief respite from attack from that one fighter. Seems potent enough to make it a 1st level spell now, IMHO.

The spell description says "Any creature that strikes you" with an attack, not "attacks" you. There's spells that say the latter - since it specifies that the attack has to strike you, it should not trigger on a miss.

Personally, I best like the "prevents damage, ends before next turn" interpretation best, though as we said, there are two possible correct answers.

I will get my next post up this afternoon or evening. I'm going to be rather busy the next five days between the end of term at work (grading, etc.) and attending RavenCon on Friday-Sunday.

I might miss Friday, but we should pick a time to say hi at least while we're both at the convention.

I can try to find you at the game you mentioned you would be running on Saturday (was it?). Let me know where/when and I should be able to find you. I'll PM you a list of the games I'm signed up to play, in case you want to locate me.

The map link in my profile header now shows the portion of Kenabres you are in and the immediate area. The area you are able to view will expand as you move through the city.

Man, I was all ready to leave until I read Tauni's post. That hit me pretty good :)

As I'm sure you're all aware, I'm leaving soon for the convention (where I get to meet our illustrious GM in person! excitement!), so I will have difficulty posting for the next few days.

I'll see you all again on Monday!

Man, I was all ready to leave until I read Tauni's post. That hit me pretty good :)

Ok, I just read Franti's post... very nearly brought a tear to my eye. That was beautiful.

I'm glad you're staying. (I knew you'd be back even if you left temporarily... but I'm glad you're staying.) :)

Man, I was all ready to leave until I read Tauni's post. That hit me pretty good :)

I'm so glad I could complicate things for you! :)

Haha, that went perfectly! That was beautiful, Franti :)

Also, the Tauni/Franti ship thickens >:3

Lol glad you're with us even if I couldn't convince you. :)

I've been sick the last couple days and I went back and reread all of our posts from the beginning. I just wanted to say that you guys are all ****ing brilliant and I am so incredibly happy and honored to be playing with you <3

I should have used my Invisibility Potion and bumped that Stealth Roll to 55. Hide so well I go ethereal, so hidden that even Picoperi thinks I just went and vanished from existence.