You got me confused now. What's directed at her, and what's at Johan? Reading your post, I got the impression you were talking with the Ninth, not Elise.
DM any thoughts on my cohort? I placed him in Fairhold so he can be picked up before the PCs head back to base.
Assuming Cedric is still thinking about his, I note that you can get a griffon at level 8 (and perhaps the DM might allow one with a young template now?). That is supposed to be the Barcan thing I believe? Just a suggestion but you seem unsure.
I was writing a post in response to Cedric's earlier comments but I realised I'm not quite sure how Sebastian would be reacting to his claim as the Barcan heir which is obviously a big deal. DM does this seem plausible to our PCs? Presumably you've got some direct relations still running around if they're half-elven?
I don't want to try and muck around with Cedric's backstory but basically would I be taking this seriously or think he's possibly nuts? :)
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Some basic thoughts on joining the organisations. From the rules the only reason not to join the groups seems to be issues with control. As it stands you have Agrippa with a contacts based organisation, my back-story is an infiltrated priesthood / espionage while Cedric keeps referring to his men, so presumably military strength / ruthless?
If we were to concentrate on these different elements for our weekly actions then for now at least we should have no control issues: its basically everyone running their "own" element. That would make contacts 3, espionage 3, ruthless 6 alltogether which seems pretty hefty. When someone gets a second action (presumably Cedric) they can use their element again or seek "permission" from one of the other two which could create some nice opportunities for RP.
We can revisit if the other PCs take leadership later but by then we should have more in-game reasons to be merging minions anyway.
Thoughts?
You got me confused now. What's directed at her, and what's at Johan? Reading your post, I got the impression you were talking with the Ninth, not Elise.
Its Ok, I was attempting a joke. I said hello to her IC and then she complained about lack of manners.
Agrippa is fine with joining the Red Pentacle with anyone else, as long as no one steps on his bailiwick (arcane and esoteric stuff).
In fact, Agrippa finds most of what the cult does incredibly boring and would probably leave most of its running to someone else. He would focus on the binding and summoning of outsiders and specific magical rituals.
Ruthless will be a 4 as starting stat can't be above a 4 so probably ruthless 4, Loyalty 2. I already have 2 actions. You get the second at 13. A griffon is a cool idea. If the GM is cool with it and very fitting. I'm fine with the young template and raising it or just waiting till level 8 for it to come to me.
I must have missed the capping part.
So then would be:
(New and Improved) Red Pentacle
Contacts 3
Espionage 3
Ruthless 4
Loyalty 2
Rest 0
4 weekly actions: 2 Cedric, 1 Sebastian, 1 Agrippa
Seems fine, I'm good with combining or keeping them seperate. Just let me know what you guys decide. It seems we are combining so thats fine :)
Presumably calling Agrippa a Lord when he lacks that title is also a mortal insult :)
DM I had proceeded on the basis that Sebastian had already met Elise as per previous posts. However I'm fine to retcon that away if you don't think it is appropriate.
Totally forgot about that one!
However, Lord might not be an "official" title of the peerage of Talingarde. I don't think Aku spelled out the titles and I've purposely not used them. I'd imagine Agrippa to be the son of a Count or Baron, on rank with the ruler of Farholde.
Lord is a quite acceptable way to address someone when your are unaware or unsure of their title and if they have a greater one such as Duke, Baron or what not they should humbly correct you.
There is about 0% chance of Agrippa humbly addressing anyone not the Cardinal and/or Tiadora...and Tiadora is on Agrippa's short list of things to conquer/enslave or kill.
In fact...Agrippa's new obsession is about to become "How to slay/bind Tiadora most effectively and make it look like it was the Mitrans"
No worries Cedric expects no respect in return as none has been earned. He is the kill them with kindness and words until it is time to kill them with your sword kind of guy.
Loving the RP
Hi Aku
Want to get an oil of align weapon good and align weapon evil.
Cedric, if your cohort is still up in the air, we have like, zero crafting resources right now. Just sayin' :>
Added it again. I had it removed because I thought no one was using.
Put some of the less used links on the campaign tab, someone asked me permission to access hellfire supplement, I forgot about it, I’ll give it when I get home today.
@Cohorts
Working on it. I’ll have it done by weekend.
It was me asking for the hellfire supplement but I since gave in and purchased it. It will be featuring a lot, ha ha ha.
I suspect the Baron's reaction to Cedric will at least partly answer my questions above but would be helpful to have this clarified. I'm really not sure how Sebastian would be reacting to him.
I stat'ed up the undead in my profile. DM, you may wish to transfer to the info tab if you agree with my product.
Nice work with the stats Sebastian. Thanks! That minotaur looked tougher in my head. Do you think its worth investing in some aromor for it?
I thought I was pretty badass at what I did but the Anti Paladin has a better overall bluff than me and leaves my Diplomacy in the dust :(
Looks like I'll just have be a good archer now that we have a better face man
Nice work with the stats Sebastian. Thanks! That minotaur looked tougher in my head. Do you think its worth investing in some aromor for it?
It should pack a wallop but yeah its AC is poor. I'd guess armour would be good idea if we can get it (large obviously). The hound should make a decent roadblock though particularly with its extra hp.
Genuinely happy the half-elf walks forward and gives Cedric a warn hug! "Cousin! It's such a pleasure to see the rightful line is still alive!"
==//==
If it helps, I can separate them from the description next time.
@Cohort
I'm finishing off the Cohort, will post tomorrow.
@Cedric, you can wait until level 8 to get a griffon if that's what you want. Level 8 will not take that much time.
That sounds pretty cool. How would it work as we level? Would it be able to take class levels?
Instead of class levels it could just gain HD.... that's kinda like class levels right? Just less mess with abilities and stuff...
That would be fine as well. The class levels would have been fighter if permitted, but HD makes more sense.
@Alchemist
Talking about the basic concept, there are some things I don’t liked:
Overall, while the cohort is someone present in the game, this concept seems to turn it on an extra buffer.
So here is what I think about:
Pick one: Visionary Researcher or Infusion.
Infusion doesn’t allow the use of personal-range formula.
Race: Drop Tiefiling and change to human.
Ability Score: 15pt buy
If you start treating your cohort as a buff-fountain, I’ll intervene and he’ll simply get mad at you for some reason, and stops helping, until you acknowledge he is more than that. (Man, this like felt a lot like those anime cartoons.)
Overall, the cohort shouldn’t be created sorely based on what’s beneficial to others characters, and while the basic concept, mad scientist, would be really cool inside the game as an actual player, I don’t think it really fits the style of game I want to run to give this for a cohort.
With that said, do you want to complete the sheet?
Sure.
Loving the RP
Hi Aku
Want to get an oil of align weapon good and align weapon evil.
Can I pre-oil the arrows and have them work later or is it oil them up at the time?
the oils (one of Bless weapon and one evil) will set me back 350 total.
Instead of class levels it could just gain HD.... that's kinda like class levels right? Just less mess with abilities and stuff...
Class levels is the approach by RAW although it obviously results in a stronger creature. That is how Grumblejack seems to have been done?
I'm applying your cohort changes GM but just wanted to say I originally went for a support based character in lieu of one with a significant impact on combat. If he can't fight or support I'm not left with much options right? :)
In terms of personality I was going to tone down the mad scientist vibe and do more simple amoral criminal, sound better?
Just for an FYI Sebastian, my cohort is a CR 3 devil that absolutely does nothing in combat, and is there purely for RP reasons. You didn't have to take leadership....
Ah leadership, how you vex me.
I've said it before - this adventure does seem to make leadership feel mandatory. And to make the choice to take it then to learn only afterwards that that choice is going to be rather severely neutered would kinda suck.
Its not a crime to make an optimal choice for your character every now and then. And its not unreasonable to be surprised or confused when you design a cohort within the scope of the feat and the rules only to have the GM pull its teeth out.
Can you tell I'm not a fan of leadership yet :>
Heh.
I didn't take it because I didn't want any complications with my current work schedule. I will take it at a later time simply because I want a small cadre of Norborger worshippers within the realm of Asmodeus.
I think we all know leadership creates problems particularly for the DM. I don't really mind what the requirements are or what gets disallowed. That's the DMs prerogative and we presumably all do exactly the same when its us in that role.
I guess I was just a tad sensitive to the claim I made a buff bot when what I was actually trying to do was fill a party niche with something that wouldn't overshadow in combat. I was kinda following Agrippa's example to be honest. Give his devil some rogue class levels and you get a kickass scout which is just another support role.
Coming back to Johan's point whatever the rules are is fine. But given the rules I'm going to look to do something that's effective within whatever concept I've come up with its just my nature. And I hope its clear I wasn't trying to min max something with full ranks in profession torturer.
Quite possibly a squall in a teacup.
@Sebastian
First off all, I apologize if I sounded harsh. English isn’t my first language and more than often I usually want to say one thing, and it gets perceived as another.
About the cohort, I explained why I didn’t want that particular concept. While it would work lovely for an actual character, due to nature of leadership, the cohort usually ends in the background, which would eventually make the character you designed, later on in the game, be used mostly for additional bonuses.
@Cohorts
One more thing I would like to say is that while the cohort is ‘loyal’ to your character(or purpose, in case of some demons…), it does not means he will do absolutely what you want/order him to. The cohort it’s somewhat similar to your best friend. He is mostly always there, helps you as he can, but he doesn’t live his life in favor of yours.
@Griffon
Based on pathfinder list, a Griffon would be fine as cohort to a level 10 character. Which mean Cedric would get his only at the end of this module.
If you want a Griffon as mount, I don’t mind adding it to some point in the history (hell, if played right, you guys can get a dragon as mount later on in the game), but as for cohort it would get overly complicated to balance, adding it earlier than level 10.
@Cedric
As your option of Cohort, there’s the headmaster of the baron’s orphanage. He is a wizard, which could potentially fill one of the ‘empty’ spots in the party, crafting some items, while giving you a cool way to get more minions.
Class levels is the approach by RAW although it obviously results in a stronger creature. That is how Grumblejack seems to have been done?
Grumble was a special case. During the first module, after failing at the cardinal first task, the knot spent several months training. We discussed and I suggested if someone wanted to take the ogre under their wing, they could train him into one of the classes from the party, which at the time was: Witch, Fighter, Inquisitor, and Ranger.
They decided to train him to be a fighter.
Just recently he got added a special ‘half-daemon’ template, which boosted him significantly.
@Sebastian
Ah, also I was considering ask you if this would seems fine as cohort as well.
It would need some teaks since it is level 5, with boosted creature status, but it seemed cool when I was thinking about a cohort, considering you had your points expend on espionage.
Sure, I expected as much.
Will you continue with the idea of using organization funds to 'bind/summon' creatures?
If yes, would you like to create a 'base list' of creatures to be acquired, and its relevant price?
Also, I don't mind you compensating price with time. I mean, think something about a ritual, using less 'costly' materials, but investing more time/effort/energy to compensate.
It seems extremely cool although NE and not particularly Asmodeusy. Maybe I'd be stepping on Agrippa's toes with his scouty devil?
All monstrous cohorts for a lvl 7 character are CR 3-4 so he'd be what Alchemist 2 - Alchemist 3?
The stat boost is the basic array for adding a character level, that can obviously get pretty nasty quickly when bolted onto something with decent stats already (one of the reasons I initially just went vanilla humanoid).
Edit: Basic array is:
Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores, assigned in a manner that enhances their class abilities.
Not sure if the amended alchemist as per your post above is still on the table. If its fundamentally the buffing via extracts thats the issue I could rebuild as an alchemy witch, that was one of the original possibilities.
My thoughs:
Alchemist 2 using: Str 17, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 18
Alchemist 3 using: Str 12, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 15
About the concept, what I don’t want is the archetype and the infusion discovery at the same time, and I’m house-ruling that an infusion with personal-range cannot be used by any other than the alchemist.
OK thanks very much for clarifying DM. I'll confirm one of these options.
Even with the skin stealer option we'll go with "Dr Shreck" (Its just he did terrible things to poor Dr Shreck and stole his identity). I'd change its alignment to LE on the basis it too has sworn dread oaths to Asmodeus etc etc.
Can I pre-oil the arrows and have them work later or is it oil them up at the time?
Activation: Drinking a potion or applying an oil requires no special skill. The user merely removes the stopper and swallows the potion or smears on the oil. The following rules govern potion and oil use.
Drinking a potion or using oil is a standard action. The potion or oil takes effect immediately. Using a potion or oil provokes attacks of opportunity. An enemy may direct an attack of opportunity against the potion or oil container rather than against the character. A successful attack of this sort can destroy the container, preventing the character from drinking the potion or applying the oil.
If you know what you are facing and when, it's acceptable to oil it before. However as soon you use, the 'duration' starts to count.
1 minute for level 1 potion.
3 minutes for level 2 potions.
5 minutes for level 3 potions.
Sounds about right DM Aku
Sure, I expected as much.
Will you continue with the idea of using organization funds to 'bind/summon' creatures?
If yes, would you like to create a 'base list' of creatures to be acquired, and its relevant price?Also, I don't mind you compensating price with time. I mean, think something about a ritual, using less 'costly' materials, but investing more time/effort/energy to compensate.
OMG yes this! This is what I want the cult to do! That and help Agrippa with his nefarious schemes involving evil retribution....
Griffon
An honorable beast with the body of a lion, the head and claws of an eagle, and matching enormous wings, griffons are intelligent creatures and serve as mounts for all manner of knights, especially those who often need to traverse long, perilous distances at great speed.
Cohort Level: 8th
This is from the leadership feat. Griffon is a CR 4 and an 8th level option, but I'm fine with the wizard as well if the party needs a cfafter, and having another 9th level spell caster at the end of the game wouldn't hurt.
You are misunderstanding the rule set.
It means the griffon is considered a char level 8.
Which implies you can only take as cohort by a level 10 character.
Unless I'm the one reading it wrong.
As above I believe its the character level assuming sufficient leadersip.
Looks again....
Nope you are reading it correctly. It is the estimated cohort level 8 which makes it not available until 10th level, you are correct. What a dumb chart. Why would I want a CR 4 griffon that can die to any area effect at that level over say and 8th level wizard that can kill said griffon easily. I will go with the wizard. The griffon idea was neat for the Barca house but it is very weak.
I do have a question to run by you. I will be getting and Erynes devil at 11th level as a fiendish companion. I could replace her at 13,15, 17 with an Ice Devil being the 17th level option. Erynes is CR 8 Ice Devil is CR 13 so a 5CR difference. Since it's a cohort it won't be at full Wealth by level so if it has class levels they are CR -1 so adding 6 levels would make it a CR 13 at level 17. Would you be cool with me adding 2 levels to it at each bump instead of taking on a new companion. I see her as my possible fallen angel queen for the future. I know its a bit away but thougt I would ask while we are talking about such things and see if the rest of group thinks this may be reasonable as well.
That interpretation means that you can't get a hell hound, a CR 3 creature until level 9. At the same point you can have a lvl 7, CR 6, NPC with class levels.
The effective cohort level shows when you start adding char levels so at lvl 8 you can have a hell hound fighter 1 at CR 4 compared to your CR 5 NPC (or your CR 4 griffon.
If you look the effective cohort lvl 7 monsters are all CR 3 to 4, lvl 8 are 4 to 5 etc.
But last word from me on the whole subject.
I guess you could call it an interputation, but there is this.
Monsters on the following list all work well as cohorts (be they assassins, bodyguards, mounts, etc.)—their effective cohort “level” corresponds to the level available to the PC as afforded by his Leadership score.
Which I read as Effective cohort level= Level of Cohort available based on leadership score. That and we know the cohort level is alway -2 of the PC means Griffon is at level 10 as its Level 8 and yes you can't have a hellhound until 9. I searched the boards and the couple post agree Cohort level 8 means you have to be level 10 and have a high enough leadership score to take a level 8. So this makes the monsterous cohorts poop and you should pretty much always take a NPC with class levels.
Bold move there Seb
I have literally nothing to hurt it with. But if it drains me to death I promise not to restart the cohort discussion with the next character.