Another Step Beyond (Inactive)

Game Master MaUC

Hmmm... I have to remember to check the house-rules document for my other group when I get home, there're some cool new feats in it. I could add them to the campaign's rules.

Well, since nobody else has ideas, Ring of Sustenance and Ring of Jumping it is. Now I can do real Wuxia.

Sustenance and Jumping it is!

That reminds me... You get the first benefit of the Wuxia class feature at this level, right? So... With the Ring, Tai Leng gets what... a +10 to jump checks? And another +4 for having a running start?

Now you can kill your enemies Super Mario-style! XD

By the by, I want to start setting up a back-up character in case Tai Leng dies (I've found I USUALLY prefer it if my characters stay dead), and I've semi-decided I want to try out a Vigilante if that happens or something else makes me want to retire him.

Can I set up the masked persona and have you start throwing mentions of their exploits around town? Even if I don't end up playing them, it could be a neat NPC.

Sure. Sounds interesting.

A few questions as I build the "Laughing Raven":

1.) Why did you make Throw Anything a prerequisite for Blademerang? As-is it actually seems like a worse version of Ricochet Toss for the most part, which has gentler requirements and less prerequisites (since it lets you throw the same weapon(s) repeatedly), costing only two Feats instead of 3 to get off a full attack. I suppose it has some niche utility in letting you throw any light weapon, but that's a pretty small benefit for what you're charging IMO.

2.) Due to your change to Weapon Specialization, it makes a Vigilante Talent I would otherwise take (that grants Weapon Focus and Spec for free)...less than desirable, given I don't have Weapon Training. Can I trade that out for another Martial Focus so I at least get some benefit?

3.) I can't remember, did you allow us to take Deadly Agility (the PoW Dex to damage Feat)?

4.) What are the limitations to using your Custom Weapons?

1- I'm guessing it's because that feat was created before Ricochet Toss. Lemmy's Revised Fighter (and it's accompanying feats) came quite a while before the WMH.

It does have the advantage of not requiring Weapon Specialization... PBS seems to fit the idea of the feat, but it's somewhat taxing... You can ignore that particular prerequisite.

2- Isn't that just Weapon Spec, but with a lower bonus? Wouldn't you prefer to gain the benefit that the feat would provide to Fighters with Weapon Training (+1 at 5th, +2 at 9th, etc)?

3- Yes. Finesse weapons, however, have 2 disadvantages:

A- You can't use Power Attack (which is an universal combat option in this game) in conjunction with Weapon Finesse (but you can take Piranha Strike, which works with any weapon you can used with Weapon Finesse, not just light ones).
B- The damage is never increased by effects/conditions that allow you to add 1.5x Str, like wielding a weapon 2-handed or using the Dragon Style feat (as a rule of thumb, there might be exceptions).

4- Ah, yes... That... I was going to create a list of weapons using Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System, and leave 1~3 unused craft points in each weapon (at least the martial and exotic ones).

The idea was that players would be able to forge or order custom weapons. They'd be limited to adding modification to weapons in the list, rather than have absolute freedom of customization, and in time, more and more modifications would become accessible, usually by researching smithing techniques, gaining access to new forging technology or or by reverse engineering weapons you find.

Alas, I simply never had the time to actually create said weapon list. But now I do! I will try to make that list. But if you have an idea for a weapon that fits that idea, I'm willing to consider it.

2.) It also lets me qualify for Feats with Weapon Training as a prerequisite like Ricochet Toss and Marksman's Utility, though half progression Weapon Spec also sounds good.

3.) Deadly Aim works as usual though, I assume?

If I didn't want to TWF (and not have a trash AC) I might be tempted to try out Brutal Thrower instead though. That'd let me melee better. But Prodigious TWFing (if even allowed) would be too Feat heavy to come online by 6 I think. Though with the Precise Shot squeezing I might be able to manage it.

2- I see... Well, whichever you prefer. If you want the Vigilante Talent to give you this feat instead of Weapon Spec, that's fine. If instead you prefer it to give you the Weapon Specialization progression, that's fine as well (in the end it'll give you a +4 to damage, just like taking WS and Greater WS would. Takes longer, but cost fewer feats).

3- Yes, it does.

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I don't think AC will be a problem... You're basically adding 1/2 your level to AC, remember? The progression in much faster than what you'd usually get by actually buying RoP and AoNA.

If you still think your AC's too low, you can always take Dodge. It actually scales now and includes Mobility:

Dodge: Gain a +1 Dodge bonus to AC and CMD. Increases to +2 at BAB +8 and to +3 at BAB +16. This bonus is doubled against attacks of opportunity provoked by moving through an opponent’s threatened square. (This feat supersedes Mobility, Two-Weapon Defense and all other feats that just give you a +1 Dodge bonus to AC).

If, still you think your AC is too low (which I doubt), you could use the Fighting Prodigy feat to grab the "Strong Arm, Stable Shield" Combat Prowess:

Strong Arm, Stable Shield (Ex): While wielding a light, heavy or tower shield, you can add your Str modifier to AC instead of your Dex modifier. This ability does not affect Touch AC unless the character is somehow capable of adding the shield’s AC bonus to touch AC. Any condition that would cause you to lose your Dex bonus to AC also make you lose your Str bonus to AC. If you have a negative Dex modifier, that penalty still applies to your AC.

(I've been actually wanting to playtest that one... One of my friends uses it in my other game, but he also uses light armor specifically to keep his AC low-ish so as to encourage enemies to attack him).

BTW, the WMH is one of those books that I don't know very well, so I won't just give a blanket permission to use everything in it... BUT, I'm fine with pretty much everything I've seen.

The only things I can remember that I don't like are:

- The feat that lets you use AoO to deflect ranged attacks.
- The AWT that give the WT bonus to saves.
- The AWT that makes Bravery apply to all saves.

The first one is because it makes pretty much anyone with Combat Reflexes all but immune to archers and other ranged attackers.

The other two... It isn't that I don't like them, it's just that I think it's a tad too much when used in conjunction with this Fighter. You know... With Fighters getting a second good save and Bravery also applying to mind-control effects.

Man, looking at custom weapon gen I find myself wanting to move away from Thrown weapons just because of the Extendable mod.

Interesting weapon idea:

Essentially a pair of bracers that can shoot out two short swords that can then break apart into a pair of whip-like weapon (like Ivy's sword).

It would be pretty fun in conjunction with this Feat for cool factor, though practicality is dubious.

Edit: Also, what is the "better version" of Martial/Exotic Weapon Proficiency you mention in the houserules doc? That's never elaborated on.

Man, looking at custom weapon gen I find myself wanting to move away from Thrown weapons just because of the Extendable mod.

Extendable was specifically inspired by Ivy's sword (which is named Valentine... Just like Ivy's surname... I guess she isn't very creative).

Edit: Also, what is the "better version" of Martial/Exotic Weapon Proficiency you mention in the houserules doc? That's never elaborated on.

Huh... I could swear that was present in at least one of the homebrew documents...

Anyway... I'll update the campaign doc later...

Martial Weapon Proficiency (requires BAB +1): You gain proficiency with one martial weapon of your choice. If your BAB is +5 or higher, you gain proficiency with all martial weapons.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency (requires BAB +1): You gain proficiency with one exotic weapon of your choice, plus one additional exotic weapon. If you have Martial Weapon Proficiency (either the feat or the class feature), you gain proficiency with one additional exotic weapon for every +5 in your BAB.

So... Anyone planning to do anything? Or do you intend to stay in the sewers for a little longer? XD.

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On a separate note, I noticed a few typos made the proficiency feats a little confusing to read... Here's the correct version:

Martial Weapon Proficiency
You are proficient with martial weapons.
Prerequisites: BAB +1.
Benefit: You gain proficiency with one martial weapon of your choice. If you have BAB +5 or higher, you gain proficiency with all martial weapons.

Exotic Weapon Proficiency
You are proficient with some exotic weapons.
Prerequisites: BAB +1.
Benefit: You gain proficiency with one exotic weapon of your choice. If you have Martial Weapon Proficiency (either the feat or the class feature), you gain proficiency with one additional exotic weapon for every +5 in your BAB.

How's that Int based Monk coming along? I want my knowledge skills back! =p

Too much homebrew projects for too little free time. I need to pick my priorities... But you know... You could always play a Magus /Bard/Alchemist with the Universal Unarmed & Unarmored variant from Lemmy's Revised Monk.

In any case... I do have 2 sketches of my idea... One trades ki powers for 4 spell levels. The other trades Ki powers and a few other things for 6 spell levels.

You know... I was thinking... "Should I make a spell-caster Monk archetype or just a Int-based Monk archetype?", and then it hit me:

I can do both! One is an Int-based Monk that changes only a few class features... And the other is a spell-casting Monk that trades most of it ki powers! :O

Mastermind Monk: (placeholder name :P)

Brilliance (Ex): You use your abilities by focusing on your intellect, rather than your spiritual balance. You use Int instead of Wis for AC and Ki-related abilities

Analytical Mind (Ex): You gain a +2 on all saving throws against illusion effects. This ability replaces Still Mind.

Epiphany (Su): You can spend 1 ki point to grant yourself a bonus equal to your Monk level on one Int-based skill check, but cannot use ki to grant said bonus to Wis-based skill checks. This ability modifies your Ki Power.

Seer (Su): You can see magical auras and invisible creatures as if under constant effect of Detect Magic and See Invisibility spells. This ability replaces Sense The Void.

I also wanted to trade Stunning Fist for something more theme-appropriate, but I don't know what. Pseudo-Sneak Attack? Make the opponent Confused? Give it a penalty to attack rolls, concentration checks and skill checks? I have no idea. :/

I personally have always liked the Exploit Weakness ability.

It does fit the theme... But +1/2 half level to AC is a tad too much IMHO. Specially with our house-rules. Even more so considering it's at-will, while Stunning Fist is a limited resource.

Maybe some sort of Sneak Attack/Bleed damage combo... something like, say... You deal precision damage and force a saving throw... If the target fails, it's also bleeding and/or staggered.

Hmmm... Could work... The status effect isn't as powerful as Stunning Fist, but you get a benefit even if the target makes its saving throw.

To justify the limited uses per day, it could be fluffed as an injection of Ki (or whatever it is that Monks use to activate Stunning Fist) made with pin-point accuracy.

One minor change I'd make to the archetype: Add a clause to Analytical Mind that it counts as Still Mind for the purpose of prerequisites. There's some Feats and PrCs that have Still Mind as a prereq and since it is already arguably a weaker ability (Illusions being rarer and usually less game changing than Enchantment spells), losing access to those things kinda hurts.

Consider replacing all of the basic uses of Ki Power besides +AC and extra attack with different thematic abilities. Being able to cast stuff like Identify, Detect Secret Doors, or Borrow Skill in place of getting a huge bonus to a Str/Dex/Wis checks. Though I'd really miss the super Acrobatics boost, it seems thematic and useful.

The Stunning Fist variant granting a Sneak Attack-alike seems cool. Stunning Fist can already do Staggered so I'm eh on that just from a unique ability perspective. Bleed is rarely sexy but it's cool at least. The main thing I wanted from Exploit Weakness was the ability to ignore DR or Hardness for a round so that would also be great.

@Storm Dragon: You can switch to the Int-based archetype, if you prefer. We can come up with something for the Stunning Fist later.

Swapped over, redid my stats to fit and my Str is higher now, as are all my other stats. I think I was using a 20 PB before, whoops.

By the by, anybody know what's up with Nicos? He hasn't posted in about two weeks.

Hope he didn't go to jail again.

@Storm Dragon: Now that you changed your character build, remember to update Tai Leng's profile... Including his passive skill bonuses. I'm guessing your knowledge skills went up, but Perception and Sense Motive went down.

So... Which one of you is going to GM a game so that I can finally play my grappling Paragon Fighter or spear-dancing Warlord Fighter?

Just throwing it out there, Scavion has yet to run a PbP for us...

Well, except Shore to Sea which was killed by Dark Souls 3. =p

Plus you did say you'd play Molly as a Warlord Fighter in the next game he ran.

Oh, semi-related, I was considering running a Starfinder game sometime soon. I want to see that system more in depth, I only got to play on session with it.

Starfinder? Can't it be a be a game that doesn't sound like a glorified Technology Guide? :P

It's actually not a bad system for the most part. It definitely has things going for it that Pathfinder doesn't. I hear it gets wonky at high levels (for different reasons than PF), but I'd like more experience with the system since it seems to have a clear design philosophy at least.

I've checked some of the rules changes for the first time... One thing I like is the reduction of actions that provoke AoO and some of the new skills (3 of which I always considered adding to my games: Getting rid of Escape Artist, getting rid of Fly and fusing Climb and Swim).

The rest... Well... Pretty much every other change elicited one three reactions from me: "This kinda sucks", "Meh.. Whatever" or "Could have been good, but went too far and now it kinda sucks" (this last one being Paizo's classic design mistake. They never know when to leave things alone).

I guess they tried to simplify the system, which is cool and all... But it feels like it's drinking too much from the 5e's well... And in doing so, getting the weakest points of both systems.

Hmmm... I actually like the idea of standing up and using objects not provoking... drinking potions and picking up objects, I'm not so sure, but pulling a lever or kicking an object away from you shouldn't provoke.

It has the added benefit of making Trip builds less obnoxious.

What do you guys think?

I'm a big fan of 5th Edition so standing up and not provoking/using objects is pretty great.

What about everyone else?

And remember:

A post a day keeps the TPK/hiatus away. ;)

Losing one of the primary benefits of Trip would make me want to rethink spending 4/5 Feats being based around tripping multiple people at once, but if I could partially rebuild into being more Grapple focused or something I'm fine with it.

Assuming you're making it work exactly like 5e anyway.

Well... To be fair, you do still get an AoO when they fall once you reach BAB +6 (or Monk level 6) if you have Improved Trip (and another one when they stand up if you have that one feat whose name I forgot). And the target still suffers heavy penalties (or a rather big loss of action economy). Not to mention that Trip can now be used on flying targets (to bring them down and possibly knocked prone) and doesn't provoke a trip attempt AoO when you fail by 10 or more.

My only grip with trip builds is precisely the character suffering all of that AND provoking 2~4 AoO when standing up...

Ideally, Disarm and Trip would be more universally useful, but less all-or-nothing.

(Also, I don't know how Grapple works in 5e :P)

I meant the trip part (Grapple is a horrible, no good, very bad combat maneuver in 5e, only thing going for it is it takes an attack instead of an action). Since you reference action economy though I'm assuming UNLIKE 5e it still takes them a Move to get up? If so, that's still worthwhile.

Yup. The only change is that standing up doesn't provoke... Maybe crawling away doesn't either, but keeps the prone condition and reduces the speed by half or something? As if the character were combat-rolling or something...

So, you guys have wanted somebody else to run a game I know, so I was thinking on what might be fun. I initially thought about maybe reviving Myrial with a soft reboot, but honestly I think I'd hit the same snag as before. It's hard to keep making unique missions for thieves and assassins past a certain level (that aren't just reskinned dungeon delves). Not-Pandora has the issue of 3/5 party members not being part of this little group and I don't feel like having an open recruitment.

But as I was thinking more, I thought maybe a loose game based on the bounty system from Myrial might be fun. It'd start around mid-level (probably 8th), and you'd be part of a monster hunting guild. The basic structure would be a simple hunt down monsters, get loot, and maybe some cool unique items crafted from the body parts of especially interesting monsters.

I don't want it to be non-stop combat, so part of the challenge would be finding many of these monsters, them either being rumored (but not confirmed) to exist, living in remote hidden locations, just being too crafty to easily find, etc. to give you a reason to interact with locals, talk to people, and gather info. Some of the monsters would probably be full homebrew, or twists on existing ones, and may require some non-standard ways to kill, either through some huge amounts of weird DR, a relationship with other local wildlife that makes them tougher, or some other thing I can come up with to make a fight harder (but not impossible) without the right knowledge, strategy, or implements.

Considering two power/options boosters in either Gestalt, Mythic, or maybe both. Mythic would be heavily modified though (primarily, you would get Mythic ABILITIES and pseudo-Tiers, but none of the Tier abilities themselves and ability choice would be mildly restricted to encourage choice of fun stuff that adds new options and not just a huge numbers boost).

Thoughts?

Hmmm... Not sure about gestalt/mythic... But I'm willing to give it a try.

If it's more a monster-hunting campaign, I think I'll go with the "Grappling Superman" build I've been wanting to try... The Paragon archetype is finally at a level I'm comfortable with (although I'm sure it might still be fine-tuned a little bit based on playtest and feedback).

:)

I like the Mythic Talents since they grant stuff that isn't generally possible in PF and bring martials a little more level with casters. Seven League Leap as a stand-in for Teleport, Aerial Assault as ghetto Fly, unique control options like Master Grappler, etc.

The Mythic Tier abilities like Amazing Initiative would be omitted, and I'd be nerfing Mythic Surge as well to probably only apply to skill and ability checks and MAYBE saves, but not attack rolls.

Updated Tai Leng's stats BTW. I also got rid of his Starknife since he's no longer proficient. Can I pick up a bundle of shuriken in its place?

Huh? How did he lose proficiency?

Well, in any case... Yes, you can buy the shurikens. No need to keep track of the common, ordinary ones. Unless they are magical, made of a special material or otherwise extraordinary, just assume you always have another one them.

You might want to take a look at the Glove of Flying Daggers as well.

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Unrelated: I don't know how late I wilI stay at work today, but I'll try to post in the gameplay thread when I'm home, assuming I don't just fall on the bed as soon as I get there. :P

The Harrow Warden archetype grants Starknife proficiency and the ability to Flurry with it, but since I changed archetypes that's no longer a thing.

Just so y'all know...

There's finally a playable version of Lemmy's Mage Base Class. It's kind short at the moment, and far from finished, but it's definitely playable... And quite interesting, IMHO.

Feels a little like an Arcanist who sacrifices arcanist exploits and all but 1 spell slot (all but 3 starting at 8th level) in exchange for a bunch of (kind of) at-will abilities and Warlock-style blasting.

I'd be interesting in hearing what you guys think of it. :)

Who are you and why are you trying to sell us on our old friend lemmy's work?

I'm MaUC and Lemmy is the GM of three of my current gaming groups. And I like Lemmy's homebrew. :)

Discussion is up for the new game.

Oh, boy... I just realized why the Positioning combat prowess is so broken for ranged attackers... You can leave melee range, make a full attack and then move another 5 ft, therefore denying full attack to the melee enemy while still getting your own... Same goes for reach weapons.

That is... Absurdly powerful for a 2nd level ability! oO

I'll add a clause saying that you must end your movement at equal or lower distance from your target. Maybe compensate by letting it be used additional times at higher levels/BAB.

Sorry, Scavion. :/

You can change it to a different feat/combat prowess if you want.

Took you long enough.

If you have time to post here, you have time to post in the gameplay thread as well! XD

That I do.

Oh, yeah... I think I talked to Rynjin about this, but here's to refresh everyone's memory:

Ideas
What do you guys think of doing away with Escape Artist and letting it be handled by Acrobatics or Sleight of Hand? (or maybe one or the other, depending on the situation, like to escape handcuffs)?

I'm half tempted to just do away with Fly as well, and let Acrobatics take its job.

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PS: Go post in the gameplay thread, you lazy buns!

Oh, one more thing... I made a better Campaign Inventory (pseudo-vacations FTW!).

That made me think... I don't know who is using what item... Nor how you guys want to handle gold. Split in equal parts? Have a communal "party fund"?

Ohhh, so many shinies!