Soooo.... If Meredian is permanently out for some reason I'm thinking about my next character. lol. Hopefully it wont be needed, but It got me thinking all the same.
I've got several things in mind, but first a question.
Hypothetically, what level do you think that an otherwise vanilla wizard (non-lich, Non-templated, WBL gear, etc) would need to be in order to keep up with this group?
I say "Wizard" because they can get most creative when "breaking the game" isn't really a problem.
Edit: Same question, but perhaps with an epic level or two for some really fun magic tricks.
Soooo.... If Meredian is permanently out for some reason I'm thinking about my next character. lol. Hopefully it wont be needed, but It got me thinking all the same.
I've got several things in mind, but first a question.
Hypothetically, what level do you think that an otherwise vanilla wizard (non-lich, Non-templated, WBL gear, etc) would need to be in order to keep up with this group?
I say "Wizard" because they can get most creative when "breaking the game" isn't really a problem.
Edit: Same question, but perhaps with an epic level or two for some really fun magic tricks.
Nevermind. I thought I was going to go insane.
Still though. I'm having a lot of ideas. :-)
Oh, we all do.
I very nearly posted a mermaid wereshark to use as a cohort for this adventure.
Oh, we all do.
I very nearly posted a mermaid wereshark to use as a cohort for this adventure.
Mine is a mundane caster effectively without a body who abuses magic jar. :-)
Basically an otherwise normal wizard that seriously abuses the magical corner cases.
Elephant (simulacra if needed) + Anthropomorphic animal + magic jar + blood money + fabricate = Infinite wealth.
It'd be interesting to see what a caster could do with effectively infinite wealth. Granted, not everything would be available. Esoteric knowledge, artifacts, etc. Hence his desire to adventure. :-)
Could be fun.
Not as infinite as you'd think. "You cannot create magic items with blood money," and even with an elephant's Str, you're topping out at a pretty low cash value.
Not as infinite as you'd think. "You cannot create magic items with blood money," and even with an elephant's Str, you're topping out at a pretty low cash value.
Materials to make magic items aren't themselves magic. :-)
Then you're limited by crafting time... as is this party. :D
If you guys want to start capturing elephants/something else and mining their blood for gems, of course, Jiator would totally be a fan.
Then you're limited by crafting time... as is this party. :D
True, but were I to build from scratch ...
Why build from scratch? A custom magic item that casts Magic Jar, Blood Money, and Fabricate each 1/day only costs around 45,000, and you could buy additional charges for it up to at-will for a total of 225k at higher levels.
Or Anaxian can learn all those spells.
I am entirely okay with this party paying for everything with literal blood diamonds.
Why build from scratch? A custom magic item that casts Magic Jar, Blood Money, and Fabricate each 1/day only costs around 45,000, and you could buy additional charges for it up to at-will for a total of 225k at higher levels.
Or Anaxian can learn all those spells.
I am entirely okay with this party paying for everything with literal blood diamonds.
Lol. If Meredian dies we can revisit this. It's an interesting idea. I believe I could play a wizard that doesn't step on Anaxians toes. It could be fun.
Edit: scratch that. Meredian can't die. Lol. If she gets bored and wanders off we can revisit this. :-)
Your idea is built into the game already. All you'd have to do is play another copy of Anaxian. :)
Your idea is built into the game already. All you'd have to do is play another copy of Anaxian. :)
Lol. Possibly, but I'd go a different direction. It might be fun for Anaxian to have a counterpart with different tricks.
Or take Leadership in a few levels, and have Anaxian dupe you a cohort. Or if you're more interested in out-of-combat shenanigans, request a crafter wizard cohort as part of your monthly tribute from the Drow city that you guys captured.
Actually, weather or not I ever play it I may make it for fun.
Which brings me back to my original question.
What level do you think a non-templated wizard need to be in order to keep up with this group?
15?
It's a really hard call, honestly. Possibly level+2, but I'm disinclined to give anyone more class levels than the maximum, because of spell utility scaling.
It's a really hard call, honestly. Possibly level+2, but I'm disinclined to give anyone more class levels than the maximum, because of spell utility scaling.
So if he were, let's say human, level 12? I'm going to build him on hero lab for fun and I need some parameters.
Sure—but were you to actually play the character in the campaign, I'd take it down two levels and add some templating or monstrous race.
Sure—but were you to actually play the character in the campaign, I'd take it down two levels and add some templating or monstrous race.
Ok. Level 10, standard race, but rules as written for magic and such?
RAW for magi and such. You could use the unused template levels to "buy" an unusual race (up to 45 RP, I believe, from the recruitment). Personally, I'm always a big fan of Aranea.
RAW for magi and such. You could use the unused template levels to "buy" an unusual race (up to 45 RP, I believe, from the recruitment). Personally, I'm always a big fan of Aranea.
Sooo... How about a human wizard who gave himself abilities via wishes and experimentation that equal to 45 rp?
You want to make a character that is even more indestructible and dangerous than Meridian, who is the most indestructible and dangerous person in the party?
You want to make a character that is even more indestructible and dangerous than Meridian, who is the most indestructible and dangerous person in the party?
She can be destroyed. She just doesn't stay dead. lol.
I'm just screwing around as a mental exercise.
Hey, fun thought. Noble Marid is within the range for monsters we could be.
Yea. Even with race builder modifiers and infinite wealth I'm having a hard time making a character that can keep up with this group. lol.
Perhaps he can, but only just and only if i'm very clever.
I think with easier access to higher level spells I'd have an easier time of it.
Oh gosh, noble marid.
The group isn't actually that min-maxed. You guys are really good at survival, and excellent at planning out your defenses ahead of time, but kinda crap at actually dealing damage. Which is fine, but it means you've got different challenges than a standard party. (A cookie-cutter Human Diviner 10-12 would have no trouble keeping up with the party, except for the "staying alive" bit)
Also, not a fan of free-reign race builder usage (vs just pre-existing high-power races). It's incredibly exploitable, and never meant to be super well-balanced.
So.. Meri needs to find out what she's gonna do from confusion.
Hey, I can deal damage just fine, thanks.
I was thinking Illithid Sighted Seeker, seems like a diviner/telepath
I have a feat slot open, and I kinda wanna take Blind-Fight or another concealment negating feat, but I feel that's kinda meta lol.
Yeah... Illia- and Drisquar can deal damage like a good Stalker/Warlord, though, which still puts them a bit behind plenty of the DPS characters I've played (Cavalier/Bloodrager/Ranger/Pistolero) at about the same power levels. Just saying the team is further ahead in defense than offense.
Meanwhile, I'm just waiting for the game where I get to play (or someone else does) an Illithid Psychic Monk/Tetori, Mindchemist, Vitalist, or something else equally and appropriately silly.
@Drisquar: Adding a feat in the middle of a fight is a bit too silly. If you want to fill it in right after this battle (in case future Illithids go wibbly on you) go ahead.
Hmm... now that Occult Bestiary's out, Paizo finally has stats for the "top-tier" aboleth variants they've been talking about for years and never started. Ah well; will have to keep that in mind.
Also, not a fan of free-reign race builder usage (vs just pre-existing high-power races). It's incredibly exploitable, and never meant to be super well-balanced.
I can see that. Mostly I just pushed his int to ridiculous levels and added a few senses.
Free reign builder usage + magic/psi transparency is lulzy as all get out.
Built a character with a +22 (+8 against mind effecting) Will save and the racial ability to take all will saves for all allies.
Imma be a Shoggath!
Its like a dream come true. :D
Coffee, I've been thinking about your ideas for a new character, and I am getting the impression that Meridian isn't doing quite what you want her to.
What if instead of making a new/backup character, we talk about what you want your character to be able to do, and see if we can rework Meridian so she can do those things?
Coffee, I've been thinking about your ideas for a new character, and I am getting the impression that Meridian isn't doing quite what you want her to.
What if instead of making a new/backup character, we talk about what you want your character to be able to do, and see if we can rework Meridian so she can do those things?
Thank you, but I'm good. It was just a fleeting thought.
Mer is fun, though I may tweak her a bit. I'm still learning about kineticists.
I find that one of the reasons Anaxian is so effective is because I have kept his expenditures fairly small. Instead, I've dumped a ton of money into having a whole bunch of "spell in a can" items so that no matter what is happening, I always have something to contribute. His big focus in in animating undead minions, which is kinda niche really. Because of that, I have put my wealth assets toward being a generalist.
It might be worth having other party members invest in things like that too. Anaxian can make whatever you might want. Just come up with a list of stuff that would give Meridian more utility.
Meridian actually has the luxury of being able to spend a lot more on expendable items because with Astral Projection, all her items are just projections also. They still work normally, but aren't actually consumed.
That means if Meridian had a scroll of Wish and used it while projected, her projection wouldn't have it anymore, but her real self still would. Then she could dismiss and recast Astral Projection and have the scroll back.
Meridian's big problem is getting any new gear to her actual body. She'd need to plane shift here to pick it up physically, and then back to astrally project again. Once she does that though, everything she has is essentially a "once per projection" effect.
Opens a lot of cool options for her.
Wish is a bad example. You'd need physical diamonds to cause a real effect. A scroll of Miracle, on the other hand... :D
Instead, I've dumped a ton of money into having a whole bunch of "spell in a can" items so that no matter what is happening, I always have something to contribute.
And this, my friends, is the essence of all *useful* competitive min-maxing.
It was determined that with conscious effort Meredian can carry stuff back to her body.
To teleport someone else with you, you have to be able to touch them. Wall of a Force prevents that.
Also, some of the effects I had planned have targets of "you" so I couldn't cast them on the shoggath unless I was the shoggath at the time.
Will post after work(and a nap). Long, late night. Incredibly awesome though.
Right... but Illia- had teleported you *inside* the wall of force.
Buff spells.
Also, wow, somehow missed Anaxian's teleport.
Anyway, let's teleport over to Jiator and get him out.
Looks like Drisquar's backing you up right on cue! And John has just left to go find the others, so he'll probably catch up with you once things start exploding.
Right... but Illia- had teleported you *inside* the wall of force.
She did?
I thought that the reason it wasn't attacking us was because there was a wall of force in the way. My mistake.
We'll still go with the buff spells explanation. Now it's really a force to be reckoned with, for a few minutes at least. Should be enough time for us to bust the architect out.
It didn't attack you because you weren't food, and illia was amusing. Still, shoggoth on the run... [/music]
Yay! I'm amusing!
Fun fact of the day: Dominate allows a new saving throw each time a monster is compelled to do an action against its own nature. "Don't eat this abboleth," to a Shoggoth, is a command fundamentally against its nature.
is there anything this team might need at this point, that i should take into consideration when making a new character?
All our bases are pretty much covered. We don't really have a divine caster, but so far we've done well without one.
I'd say either a fully divine caster, or a martial character designed to synergize well with either Dris or Illia.
Re-working Sir John would be preferable to a new character, in my opinion.