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Our group is running through the "In Pale Moon's Shadow" playtest currently with new characters (as the module required), and while we haven't completed it yet, I can make an update for the rest of the game in a follow-up post. For this, I am the one GMing (another player will be GMing the next part, "Affair at Sombrefell Hall" after this, which we already have the basis for before we start, and seems to primarily function as a "healing stress-test" adventure).
The players were introduced to the main NPC, and asked only a couple questions related to the NPC's available information, such as who the other party is (which I only told them about the organization working against them), and what sort of object they're looking for. The most important question they kept asking was "How many days do we have to get this done?" I never told them, both because there was no notes on the NPC knowing, but also to help push the urgency of beating the other party there, which may be for naught depending on what the players do, as described in the module. It also lets me throw in the other party when I want if I really want to just challenge the players, since the book tells me I can throw them in effectively when I want, though I will notify otherwise of the actual results.
The players did opt for the Camels and the map provided. The magic items received were identified (even if barely), which was a Scroll of Fly (which the Wizard possesses), and a +1 Warhammer (a random +1 melee weapon rolled between the Paladin and Barbarian, which happened to land on the Paladin's designated number).
On the next turn, the hyenas keep assaulting the party (the camels having only 13 AC made them easy prey for the Hyenas to pull them into the briarthorns and just slaughter them), though no party members were hurt; the Hyaenodon misses the Paladin with both attacks, and the Paladin managed to stand up and deal a significant blow with his new +1 Warhammer, amounting to ~13 damage on the attack. With his default 21 AC, he raises his Shield for 23 AC. The Wizard utilizes Telekinetic Object once more without result, and the Druid strikes with a Produce Flame for 5 damage on a fresh hyena. The Cleric makes a shot on the Hyaenodon with no effect, and the Barbarian manages to move and slay the already wounded Hyena with his Lance.
On the Hyaenodon's next turn, he strikes the Paladin for 8 damage. The Paladin uses his Shield Block reaction to only take 1 damage from this attack and suffer a shield dent (of which it could handle 4 before being broken), after which it pulls him closer to the briarthorns. At this stage, the Hyenas have pulled the Cleric's camel into the briarthorn and basically have it dead. The Barbarian later attempts to save it, but fails. Another camel (the Druid's) is being pulled to the side of the briarthorns, later being critically hit by the Barbarian for over 30 damage while Raging. The other hyenas were taken down by the Wizard, Druid, and Cleric. The Paladin beating on the Hyaenodon with some significant strikes from the +1 hammer made quick work of it, but not without taking significant damage from some nice rolling (and some briarthorn D4 damage). Thankfully, with some Druid healing and Channel Energy magic, the party is mostly unscathed, the remaining Camels are healed up, and the party makes a compromise to compensate for the lost camel.
All-in-all, I think this encounter played the way I wanted it to. The added hyenas weren't overwhelming, but still enough of a nuisance to divert the players' attention between them all (and warrant some losses). The Paladin was threatened by the Hyaenodon significantly, but in the end managed to prevail and survive, having 3 dents in his shield after taking 2 from a particularly devastating blow, and with enough healing power to spare and continue for one more encounter to finish the night. (The Paladin's shield was repaired fully with a lucky critical success from the Barbarian who had a repair kit on him.)
When it popped, it initially spit some acid at the Barbarian (the closest target). Afterward, it proceeded to use a Breath Weapon on the party; the Goblin was wise enough to ready a Move Action to move out of the Breath Weapon's direction, though it still managed to hit several PCs (not the Cleric due to his range) and the Camels (which took some persistent acid damage over the course). It later tried to crunch down on the Paladin's Armor, but due to some bad rolls, failed horribly. Due to the lack of action economy and varied threats, the party didn't have much difficult in taking it down. The Druid doing its Survival check find the half-digested body containing 375 gold, 3 healing potions, and the Expert Thief's Tools (which went to the Wizard, the one who is at least Trained in Thievery).
In hindsight, I really played this creature dumb; I completely forgot it has a burrow speed, so I could have did some hit-and-run tactics (though it probably wouldn't have been fair if I did it most of the time); I could have at least had it burrow underground, pop up some distance a round or 2 later, and pew-pew some acid at the PCs, but it never occurred to me at the time, since I was mostly wanting it to try and dent the Paladin's armor and fail horribly. I'll chalk this one up to poor tactics on my behalf just to try and ruin the Paladin's day, but at least the breath weapon made them sweat a bit. After putting out the persistent acid, the Cleric expends their Channel Energy and since it was towards the end of the day, the party rests at the bottom of the river the travelled forward to. (They probably could have carried on if they wanted, but I ruled that they were pretty tired and should rest.)
I was actually genuinely surprised that the players attempted a more "diplomatic" approach. The reason why I say "diplomatic" is because when the Gnolls (whom had their axes out at the time) put their equipment away and drew bows, yipping about enemies approaching and to ready fire, the Barbarian, who had the Gnoll language, had the gall to utilize Intimidate to make the Gnolls cease their assault and "surrender." With a miraculous roll, he critically succeeds, and the Gnolls were coerced into a ceasefire, thereby stopping the encounter entirely. The gnolls were too afraid to fight the dominating Barbarian, and as such went with a parley. The party gave them access to a couple camels (that they no longer can ride across the river with), provided food and water to the gnolls, as well as some currency. In exchange, they accommodated his party with directions up the mountains (thereby ignoring any Athletics checks), warned of a ferocious beast up the mountain that tore apart their entourage, and let them by without a fight. They also let them know of their leader, Zakfah, and to gain his respect by presenting the head of said beast to him.
Once again, I appear to flop as a GM. I probably should have just let the encounter happen, and have the players fight just to see how it went for proper playtest data, but I honestly believe this presents a unique opportunity for me to progress the story in a way that nobody could see coming (and thereby make it much more interesting).
Depending on how the Zakfah "encounter" goes, I may just have them all show up at once (due to Zakfah's goals of wanting the loot as a tribute to the Carrion King) and challenge the PCs for their loot (they are Chaotic Evil after all, and could have simply used the PCs to do the dirty work for them). If the PCs let them have some of the loot (or all of it, considering how heavy some of it is), I could have the Night Heralds track them, defeat them, and interrogate where the party is, thereby allowing the Night Herald fight even well after the players succeed in beating them there.
Towards the end of the session, I let the players move forward to the next encounter, and they successfully identify what the creature is prior to the encounter with the appropriate checks. At the start of the next session, I will prepare the fight and doubly research the tactics on creatures so that A. I don't play them so recklessly or callously, and B. I don't flop playtest data results that should be triggering.
Neat playtest so far! I think allowing for creative solutions and diplomacy/intimidation is definitely in the spirit of the playtest where we included details on NPC motivations that would allow you as the GM to determine what the NPCs really want. When we played in-house, my paladin actually had nearly Diplomacied the manticore until Jason's barbarian got fed up and decided it was time for a fight (it's one reason why we included a diplomatic option in the survey, not that many others followed my crazy paladin's example).
I would say only in Part 5 do you want to make absolutely sure that the PCs actually fight all the things, and I think they'd have trouble trying to Diplomacy some of those enemies.
Thanks for the encouragement, Mr. Seifter; it helps when developers give some input as to their opinion on a playtest, so now I don't feel so silly about the Gnoll encounter being played out the way it did. (Still bummed on the Ankhrav, but I'll chalk that up as a learning experience in better examining creature abilities and how they interact with the environment.) I'm actually interested in how the PCs could "diplomacy" the manticore, such as by allowing safe passage or something; maybe have the party defeat the gnolls, or give it some treasure? Could make for some interesting roleplaying interactions with the party and see what actions they take. I atleast know that the Manticore will try and weaken the PCs with his tail barbs before dive-bombing them in melee combat (though the Manticore will be spending an action each turn to maintain his flight, he can at-least move somewhat freely), so that part of the playtest should be mostly accurate in its execution.
In the 5th adventure, I plan to stress-test the entire "Anti-Magic/No Resonance" theme (assuming it's possible, I haven't read if we make new characters for that yet) by making a Dwarf Superstition Barbarian, with 8 Charisma, the Ancient's Blood ancestry feat, and almost anything else that either cuts down on magic or Resonance entirely. The idea is to see if, in the higher levels, it's possible to survive with very little magic and see if a "non-magical" character is possible to play. (I'd prefer a 1-20 approach for more accuracy, but just for a higher-level concept, it's worth trying out at a given level just to see if it's worth attempting.)
I would say Part 6 is likely an excellent place to test out the non-magical-at-high-levels character, mostly because Part 5 has its own idiosyncrasies that might likely confound your results. Plus it's even higher level.
Neat playtest so far! I think allowing for creative solutions and diplomacy/intimidation is definitely in the spirit of the playtest where we included details on NPC motivations that would allow you as the GM to determine what the NPCs really want. When we played in-house, my paladin actually had nearly Diplomacied the manticore until Jason's barbarian got fed up and decided it was time for a fight (it's one reason why we included a diplomatic option in the survey, not that many others followed my crazy paladin's example).
I would say only in Part 5 do you want to make absolutely sure that the PCs actually fight all the things, and I think they'd have trouble trying to Diplomacy some of those enemies.
Kind of sounds like Darksol ran the 3rd encounter great, and I wish I'd ran it more like that. Unfortunately while my players did try and enter diplomacy, I effectively forced combat as I was worried about going off-rails altering the feedback.
It's good to know some flexibility is allowed within the playtest, so thanks for that Mark!
Great write up! I think you did all the right things as DM.
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I have an update to our playtest, though unfortunately it comes with some unexpected bad news. Our Druid player got frustrated with how much Pathfinder was clashing with his current real life issues (he is constantly working and playing/preparing for Pathfinder took most of whatever free time he had left), and I believe he's expressed numerous complaints with the current iteration of both the rules and the playtest regime (such as having to make a character nearly every adventure, which takes upwards of 2 hours at a time), to where both us and he agreed to have him leave while we are conducting the playtest.
While we were able to get a replacement player to continue the playtest adventure (a fairly selfish CN Gnome Sorcerer with the Imperial Bloodline wanting to investigate a lead on one of his ancestors, which may happen to be Tular Seft), it does skew the playtest results some due to "interchangeable" party members thereby allowing a sort of "select which characters handle which encounters/challenges", and it created a obstacle as to how I would both "remove" the old PC and replace it with the new PC. However, as a GM I have to roll with the punches that come our way and come up with a solution palatable to everyone (including the playtest results).
I arbitrated that the Druid stayed behind to tend to the camels and the gnolls in their camp so that when the other players find and get to the Sergeant, the camp would be fortified enough for the Sergeant to come back to their remaining gnolls unharmed and alive (there are other beasties in the area, after all). On the trek up prior to the manticore fight, the remaining PCs spot the Gnome Sorcerer trying to scale up the mountain, converse with him, and come to an agreement of adventuring together to get what they both want out of it.
With that out of the way, and having a somewhat valid explanation for this in-game, let's get to the nitty-gritty of the encounters we completed.
The only other bad thing was that the directions for drawing the map wasn't clear on aspects other than what the PCs could travel. Outside of the 20 foot winding trail, I didn't know precisely what to make the sides out of, and for simplicity and tactical reasons I ruled that it was a concave "cliff" that the PCs could climb up with a DC 15 Athletics check (and they tried to utilize the Nimble feat to bypass that difficult terrain, which I disallowed due to it requiring an Athletics check; not sure if this was the right call or not).
I followed the Manticore's tactics down pretty well, sneaking up behind towards the Sorcerer and Cleric and utilizing its Double Spike attack numerous times, circling the PCs with their minor ranged comebacks (though a couple of them were painful due to some lucky rolls, such as by the Cleric Archer). The Barbarian got dangerously close to the Manticore and ran out of rage (becoming fatigued); the Manticore had an opportunity to strike and almost took down the Barbarian with two hits (one of them being a Critical Bite). The Barbarian had 4 HP left, but the Cleric with his channels was able to bring him back in the fight. Eventually, by being in melee, the Manticore took some significant damage, and I tried having it do some guerrilla tactics, by diving towards the cliffside and covering itself with the rocks there. Due to its extreme stealth score, the odds of the PCs finding it before it was too late was slim, but a Natural 1 at the worst possible time warranted a critical failure and exposed his position at a bad time, with him shouting some obscenities at stepping on a rock it didn't see, and taking 1D4 damage (houseruled, I know, but it didn't really impact tactics or the outcome any more than if I didn't have it work, and the whole hillside was technically houseruled anyway). The Sorcerer then followed up with a Web spell (which it couldn't break due to rolling a 3 and not being higher than a DC 18 result, making it extremely slow for a round), but due to the Cleric keeping everyone else alive, the Manticore had only one hope of defeating the players, which was by getting into the Cleric's face, thereby making it more difficult for the Cleric to hit back (he's using a Longbow), and also cut off their potential healing supply. While his divebomb was successful in dropping the Cleric to Dying 1, the Paladin managed to get in range, deliver a killing blow that brutally maimed the Manticore's skull (which plays a part later in the next encounter, as I ruled based on how well he rolled), and saved the Cleric's life with a timely Lay On Hands.
The Paladin didn't have much ranged options, and mostly tried to utilize his auxiliary tactics, such as Intimidate, to contribute when the Manticore wasn't down on the ground fighting. About his second intimidate check in, he critically failed and bolstered the Manticore to his checks, so the Paladin had to hand over his bow and arrows to someone else for contribution while he went on healing duty as well through the Channel Life feat while the Manticore was not in melee range. He is responsible for the killing blow thanks to his +1 Warhammer.
The Sorcerer had some interesting contributions because they were largely self-propelled (which was the player's playstyle). Initially, due to it getting slaughtered by the Manticore's Tail Spikes, it tried feigning allegiance. With a successful roll, I simply had the Manticore no longer treat the Sorcerer as a threat, since the Manticore was baffled by his Diplomacy request (initially trying to say it was on the Manticore's side). It also made use of Invisibility (which did save him from getting swiped up by the Manticore later in the fight), and contributed towards the end with Magic Missiles.
The Cleric was the MVP of this fight, due to his plentiful healing and ability to utilize numerous ranged attacks. Several of them were hits dealing significant damage (thanks to some lucky rolling of course), and anyone getting down could be saved with the two-action Channel. The Bless benefit at the start of the fight also guaranteed a few hits as well, though the fight did last longer than the duration of the spell due to the Manticore's tactics, and as such was able to contribute quite well.
The Wizard mostly utilized his cantrips. The Mirror Images were cast once, which made the Manticore not waste spikes on him until the very end (which I actually forgot the Wizard had Mirror Images active). Due to a Natural 20 and actually hitting the Wizard on a random die roll between it and the images, the Mirror Images really only delayed whatever pain the Manticore could deal. Realistically, the Images would have saved a few hits, but in this result of actual play, it really only altered the Manticore's tactics slightly, and didn't actually warrant being cast due to its lack of relevant results. The Wizard did all kinds of tactics, such as utilizing cantrips (Telekinetic Object, Ray of Frost, etc.), shooting with his Bow, and so on, and was successful more with his Cantrips than his bow. He did take the Fighter Dedication feat for proficiency, and did have some +1 Medium armor as a result.
The Barbarian was a wild card and did all kinds of things in the encounter. He would try Intimidation tactics, he would try throwing Javelins. He even brought a couple Magic Weapon Oils to utilize, this time with the Paladin's Bow (though it was wasted because of the Manticore tactics and obtuse rolling). We did have an issue as to how the Oil is applied to an object, though and it did slow down the game more than necessary. According to the rules, it takes two hands to put an oil onto an object, but I was under the impression that you could pour the oil with one hand and hold the object in the other, though it appears you have to have two hands free, holding nothing (other than the oil, obviously) to apply it. So it created an awkward situation where the Barbarian had to draw the oil, drop the weapon, apply the oil, then pick it back up, thereby wasting 2 actions (and/or a reaction, in hindsight). I rolled with it because the Barbarian wasn't in any apparent danger, but I think these rules need to be clarified and/or fixed for ease of play, because it was a bit of a headache and clunky, and since the Barbarian has one more that I expect him to utilize for the final fight on his Lance, getting this explained properly would help for the remainder of the playtest.
Overall, the players enjoyed the encounter other than the fight taking a little long due to tactics employed by the Manticore (and it having stronger than normal statistics), but it was the right amount of deadly and difficult, all things considered. The PCs take the head of the manticore off (as brutally maimed as it was with arrows and bludgeoning damage from rocks and danger
The PCs approach the encampment. One of the Gnoll Guards succeed at their Perception check to notice the PCs, so it goes to notify the Sergeant, and the gnolls proceeded to defensive positions. The Sergeant speaks in a semi-broken Common language (just because he knows it doesn't mean he's extremely fluent in it), telling the PCs to leave or they will fight. The Barbarian, holding the head of the Manticore (brutally damaged as it was), barks back in Gnoll (which gave him a +2 Circumstance bonus on his check) that they will let them pass if they know what's good for them, tossing the head at the Sergeant and making an Intimidate check. Rolling a 2 (and failing the check), the Sergeant proceeds to look at the head, rolling a Nature check, and fails the Nature check horribly to identify the Manticore, and a Perception check to determine if the PCs were capable of such a feat (which it didn't originally believe before due to the failed Nature check). Thinking it's being slighted, he proceeds to challenge the Barbarian to a duel to see if they truly were capable of defeating the Manticore. The Barbarian accepts; Zakfah then says that if any of the PCs interrupt the duel, his soldiers would get involved and fight back.
When the duel starts, both Zakfah and the Barbarian tie on Initiative, but due to current rules, Zakfah goes first, to the Barbarian's significant detriment. He moves into position, makes a swing with his Scimitar for a large amount of damage, and critically succeeds his Intimidate check to make the Barbarian run away. The Barbarian being forced to run away, triggers an attack of opportunity from Zakfah, and he trips the Barbarian, making it difficult for him to run away. At this time, neither the gnolls nor the PCs are interfering (though the Gnome is jonesing to do so).
At this point, Zakfah is laughing at the Barbarian, putting away his Scimitar, drawing his Bow, and shooting the Barbarian as a mockery to his combat prowess. The Barbarian stands up finally, with his Lance in hand, swings once, and misses horribly. He then tries to Intimidate, but due to an even worse roll (and not having benefits from Aid Another), Zakfah is bolstered by the Barbarian's Intimidate checks. Once again, the PCs and gnolls are not interfering. At this point, the Gnome decided to interfere with a cantrip (I believe) that lets him disarm Zakfah's weapon. The spell fails, but neither Zakfah nor the Guards notice the spell (or its effects) taking place through a bad Perception check, and as such, the Gnolls still aren't interfering
Zakfah puts away his bow, draws his scimitar again, and makes a swing, hitting the Barbarian again, putting him down to single digits in HP. The Barbarian is really in trouble and fighting an enemy beyond his apparent league.
The Barbarian decides to remove a grip on his lance (which provoked, but was missed), draw a potion, and drink it. (At the time, we didn't think dropping a hand off the Lance was a Reaction, and actually instead took an action to do. Oops on our part there.) With it returning only 7 HP on a D8 (a good roll), it was still fairly weak and a single hit would still drop him. The Gnome once again tries to interfere, but with a successful Perception check from Zakfah, he is discovered, and as such orders his minions to deal with the Gnome. The other PCs then follow suit and provide other forms of aid (the Cleric uses the last of his Channel Energy at this time to bring the Barbarian back to fighting spirits), and thus a brawl starts, as Zakfah barks to the gnolls to just stop them all. The Cleric summons an Earth Elemental which distracts Zakfah for a round, and gives the Barbarian some breathing room to recoup from Raging and enter the combat anew, whereas the Wizard creates a Flaming Sphere on Zakfah, but due to better than average rolling, Zakfah becomes unaffected by the spell, and as such really only served as a minor inconvenience to the overall encounter flow.
Zakfah's ability to spend one of his actions for a Step on his minions helped with their ability to press the offensive, with Intimidate being valid tactics in inhibiting the PC's ability to contribute. Unfortunately, with there being only 3 guards, and Zakfah being by himself, the odds of them benefitting from their Pack Attack feature was practically non-existent. Flanking, on the other hand, was prevalent on both sides of the encounter, and did result in some hits (and criticals as well, one of which dropping the Sorcerer).
With the encounter progressing, one of the Gnolls is dropped (but I did roll for stabilization checks, with it succeeding before its actual death, for storyline purposes), and with Zakfah approaching death, was planning to surrender on his initiative and concede their prowess. The Gnome Sorcerer, being revived through his Hero Points, and then Critically Intimidated, managed to utilize his Ray of Frost cantrip on his way back to bring down Zakfah. The remainder of the Gnolls retreat and yip in surrender. The party accepts their surrender, and returns Zakfah and the other Gnoll to consciousness. The Gnolls concede to their strength as most canines would in their primal paradigm (though disapprove of their less-than-direct methods), and finally believe that they were capable of defeating the Manticore. The PCs ask about whether they know of an entrance to a tomb, the gnolls aren't entirely sure of one, but tell them of the entrance to C1 as being possible, but aren't sure as to whether it can even be opened or not (as the adventure appears to describe). When the gnolls are told that they have survivors down the hillside, they yip in excitement, pack up their stuff, and proceed down from where the PCs went to meet up with the rest of their pack and continue their conquest to retrieve loot for the Carrion King (which the PCs aren't aware of in terms of their motives).
At this point, the PCs are out of Lay On Hands, Channels, and other several limited resources, so they rest for the day, and heal up, marking the end of Day 4 (or Day 5 if I went by the original travel rules, and so far it's looking like the PCs will beat the Night Heralds here within 2+ days, though with Zakfah and the others being alive, I may just allow the Night Heralds to track the PCs and make one final battle just to playtest the deadliness of the encounter, as well as reveal some further plot points that the relevant NPCs may have knowledge of).
With the Manticore fight weighing heavily on their resources, this was once again the right amount of deadly, and made for some interesting interactions that the encounter may not have intended. (The duel part was kind-of made up since there was botched Intimidate and Perception checks, but since it escalated into a brawl, it did allow for a semi-accurate playtest of both "diplomatic" and combat resolutions, so on that front I believe it went very well.)
In addition, this was where we screwed up the Arcane Evolution feat of Sorcerers, since I didn't notice the Arcane trait (and even if I did, had no idea what it would represent), and the feat only says "one scroll in your possession," thereby not marking what kind of spell it was (such as if it had to be an Arcane spell or not), meaning I initially allowed the Sorcerer with a Scroll of Heal (2nd level) to effectively heal himself and others with his slots while still being an Arcane spellcaster. I will be "retconning" this, since it's fairly fresh in our minds, and to make sure character features and abilities are enforced as they're intended.
As I've said above, due to the fourth encounter taking too long, we weren't able to get to the other stuff (we didn't start until 7:30 at night, and that fight took ~3.5 hours to complete), or even finish the adventure within 2 sessions. Unfortunately, I wasn't even able to input my (or our group's) findings to the online surveys due to these encounters and adventures taking way longer than when the surveys and such are available (I don't have links or the ability to apply my survey findings anymore now). In fact, the Lost Star took 2 long sessions and I had to input the surveys while we were still playing it, which spoiled a couple of things for me as a player, which I decided not to do for future playtest adventures so that the surveys I input are more accurate, so I think having those surveys available for at least one month when you initially air them would be acceptable so that those groups with longer playthroughs (or less frequent meeting times) can still get an opportunity to put in their feedback.
Tomorrow night, we plan on finally finishing this adventure, and hoping to at last bring in a result of how we felt about this adventure, about the party options, and other relevant statistics. One thing I can say for sure is that these adventures feel like they take longer to play than the window we have to input our feedback through the online surveys.
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One thing I can say for sure is that these adventures feel like they take longer to play than the window we have to input our feedback through the online surveys.
You can complete the surveys for older parts of Doomsday Dawn AFTER the playtesting "moves on". Scroll down the playtest page to see the links.
Paizo has said that they ARE looking at results on the older surveys after the window is closed. So, it isn't crucial to finish the surveys "in time"
Once again, I appear to flop as a GM.
NO WAY! The gnolls are described as stragglers, few in number and without their leader. You played them right, especially considering the good roll. And you players were sharp in sacrificing their poor camels - perhaps not the kindest options, but hey the mission is urgent!
The PCs gave them food (they had extra rations stocked up), and gave them camels for transportation. Unless the gnolls craved camels, they probably wouldn't have eaten them.
We're going to keep the surveys available for more than a month; don't worry! Lost Star is still available.
Also, I have to say I like your group's style. They had a lot of good backups and made use of several solid auxiliary strategies we built into the game that not everyone is using yet. Nice work, and thanks for the feedback!
We're going to keep the surveys available for more than a month; don't worry! Lost Star is still available.
Also, I have to say I like your group's style. They had a lot of good backups and made use of several solid auxiliary strategies we built into the game that not everyone is using yet. Nice work, and thanks for the feedback!
Sorry for the late response, but thanks for keeping them out and for your compliments. I did fill in my fair share of the surveys (though I accidentally put down only one time of a player hitting 0 HP, when it was actually twice, I forgot the Manticore fight which dropped the Cleric), but it wasn't enough to warrant a PC death, thankfully.
Will be posting the actual conclusion (with a potential follow-up to the Night Herald encounter, which will be fully in-depth since it will be the primary focus of the possible final installment) later on today, so stay tuned for that if you want to see it. I would like some suggestions as to what to do for a "battle map" inside Kelmarane if we follow through (as this is easily a possible outcome for this adventure given the circumstances and write-up in the conclusion section of the Night Heralds entry); would it be more of an urban setting with numerous shoddy buildings that have window openings for available clear shots? Would the streets be potentially crowded with innocent people, or could I have them attack at night when the PCs are unaware and in their rooms (which is a severe disadvantage for them, I might add)? So much possibility with the world being my oyster here.
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So here it is; the conclusion to the playtest adventure.
Picking up where we last left off, I noted that I screwed up the Arcane Evolution feat, which I compensated with resetting the Sorcerer player's HP to its previous value, and I adhoc'd a couple healing potions for the Sorcerer to use after the party received them from the Druid holding the shoddy fort of the lesser pack. It healed him approximately 8 HP for 2 Resonance points of his potential 8 (which put him at ~half of his 40 HP). The Cleric followed up with a Channel of his own on both the Sorcerer and Barbarian (putting him at 3 for the day) to max them out, and then everybody else used a potion to top off whatever little HP they had left.
From here, the players moved upward the trail from where Zakfah was stationed.
With that out of the way, they safely utilize the latch and open the doors. The initial hallways are narrow and strangely drawn; it seemed weird to counteract the whole "half a square" thing, since most players and creatures can't just fit into a half-square. Would I have to use Squeezing rules for this or something? I wasn't quite sure, and if there were encounters that relied on fighting in these tight spaces, it could immensely change the feel and outcome of those combats. Compared to other hallways, this wasn't really helpful to adjudicate, so I just treated it as a normal 5 foot wide hallway.
The players were being very wise in travelling down the hallways. They were using Survival checks to track on a regular basis to see if anyone else [notably, the Night Heralds] were already in this tomb (with a critical success on the Cleric stating that the ground hasn't been disturbed for hundreds of years), as well as using Detect Magic (to determine if there were more traps and such in the area). Light spells were required for most players (except for the Goblin Paladin who had Darkvision already), but with at least 2 Light cantrips, vision wasn't particularly problematic for them short of the Cleric not being able to make very solid Perception checks down the halls.
In the split of the hallway they travel, the Paladin notes of a multi-fork section (the right section leading to the hallway detour of C3, the left section leading to C2, and the winding hallway leading to C4). The party decides to head down the section leading to C2.
Once the Barbarian lands on the island the Stone Elemental is on, the "statue" comes to life, and combat is initiated. The potential stealth rules made the potential tactics (burrow, stealth, then unburrow and strike against flat-footed AC) very clunky and unviable until they were hit, and was actually surprisingly durable against the trio. (Unfortunately, since I do forget burrowing every now and then, the players have reminded me several times when they hit to ask if it burrows down again, so that's a fault on my part.)
After a couple rounds of combat between the party, and allowing a free Perception check to notice something out of the corner of the Cleric's eye (probably shouldn't have even did that, but due to the nature of the Water elemental approaching in relation to the "dead calm" of the water, it seemed appropriate, since even a Water Elemental would cause water to move). While the Cleric didn't succeed, he did notice that something is causing water to move, meaning something was in the water. At this point, the Water Elemental (which the players made me design to be a Large Mouth Seabass Catfish because -reasons-) jumps from the water to get an aerial tail slap to the Cleric (AKA its water thrust melee attack) and dive back down into the other side. I'm not sure if this is even technically possible by the rules, since doing another action, such as attack, while in the middle of another action, ends that previous action, but since it made the relevant Athletics and/or Acrobatics check with flying colors, I ruled it to have worked that way.
From here, the divisive battle became apparent. The Sorcerer, being smart and going invisible while walking towards the steps, avoids being a target in the following rounds (since the Elementals aren't particularly smart to try and find the Sorcerer when other threats are readily apparent); he does re-emerge with Magic Missiles. The Earth Elemental does some solid damage on the Wizard, with a little bit of damage on the Paladin. It actually eventually burrows underneath to get to the island the Sorcerer and Cleric are on, and threaten them in the same round the Water Elemental is slain, and as a result gets some Critical Hits on the Sorcerer (though he is still alive at the end, not dropping to 0 HP whatsoever).
The Water Elemental really focused on terrorizing people on-land with his knockback reach and splitting between the people he could affect on the stairwell and on the island they traveled to. The Barbarian actually had the guts to challenge the Water Elemental in its own terrain, and it actually almost did him in, but due to timely Cleric healing, the Barbarian persisted (which also gave us a clue on how underwater combat and "breathing" works, which is much more permissive in PF2 than in PF1; I didn't like how in PF1, underwater combats were basically impossible due to you needing to spend a Standard Action each round to avoid drowning). Here, you get a flat breath rate equal to Constitution, which drains down with each action you take, and the option to take a deep breath to double that time before you jump, which the Barbarian did).
In other unfortunate events, due to the Barbarian taking the fight to the Water Elemental and not having any reason to retreat or reposition, the Water Elemental didn't really get to utilize his Vortex ability or aura to keep the PC in his threatened range (because that's exactly where the Barbarian wanted to be). The Barbarian was smart enough to not utilize his Dragon Fire Rage benefits while underwater, so on that front he still contributed quite well, though Fatigue has usually led to him getting critically hit (and regularly hit on otherwise misses). However, the Water Elemental was pretty durable and did some damage (plus annoy players), not to mention had to deal with a summoned Water Mephit (which absorbed a couple secondary attacks that could have been directed at the Barbarian for potential hits/crits).
The Earth Elemental did something funny in this encounter before it consequently died; it emerged where the Cleric's Mace and Shield was (on the ground, as they were dropped). I ruled that as part of rising from the ground, it would grasp the mace and shield freely (because it didn't require any special effort on the Elemental whatsoever). It would then move up and smack the Cleric in the face, with his own weapon! Talk about insult to injury! Unfortunately, the Elemental rolls a 2 on his attack roll and misses, and even if grabbing the mace and shield freely wasn't possible by the rules, it could have just emerged, moved, and attacked as normal; I just wanted to make the encounter that much more enjoyable/funny.
With the defeat of the Elementals, the Cleric spends some Battlefield Medic to heal people up whatever HP they are down (with 2 Channel Energy uses left). The players spend an hour or two (they're about half-way through Day 5/6 right now) to search the chamber with no results other than the Elemental Gems they've acquired. A Critical Success from identifying them via the Wizard reveals that crushing the gem (thereby destroying it and costing 1 Resonance Point) summons the exact Elementals again for 1 minute, before they are returned to their own plane.
With the Elementals being in place, I wasn't sure if Detect Magic would work on them, as they aren't technically magic items. They might be supernatural creatures by nature, but I wasn't particularly sure if detecting magic would apply here, and as such I disallowed it, both to build suspension and to force the party to split some, thereby making the encounter more difficult as a result. Whether this was intended or not, I'm not sure, but I don't think it would have altered the raw outcome of the encounter, though it might have told players a little more about the Elementals than before; in fact, if I didn't blurt anything out by mistake, they would have assumed the Earth Elemental was a golem of some kind!
From there, the PCs head out of the hallway, continuing down the northern hall to C4, but at the first bend prior to C4, decide to head south to investigate the hallway with the turn-off to C3. When they see down that hallway, they notice a small "aura" of red-orange color appearing steadily moving in the doorway to their right. Approaching the doorway and peering down the stairs, the radiance of the hallway improves, and a critical success of Perception on the Goblin Paladin had him get the taste of soot and the smell of what would pass for a Pathfinder "cooking grill/smoker," which reveals to the players this might be a follow-up encounter to the previous room they were in. As such, they didn't want to go down that hallway, and proceeded from the southern entrance to C4. The enemies in C3 are not encountered in this adventure.
Here, the players attempt to use their Assurance on Arcana (specifically, the Sorcerer) to try and get some basic information, but due to it simply being a 15 (and failing by 10), I falsely deduced to them that the dais of the room was actually the Countdown Clock (since the symbols were fluctuating and had dials to adjust it). However, with an aid from the Wizard on a following Assurance check (which he automatically assists with Assurance of his own), combined with the Goblin Paladin being the scribe and having a somewhat accurate description of what the Countdown Clock might look like, this concept was later debunked.
Here, the players further examined the dais (which had dials and such scattered to warrant utilizing their ANRO [Arcana, Nature, Religion, Occultism] skills), they attempted to make a check to understand the runes of the four circular indentations. With a miraculous, on-the-nose 25 Occultism check, the Wizard (who know the Ancient Osiriani language) deduced that each of the sigils in the indented circle patterns were actually part of an equation that, when matched, would align itself with the door and open it. If he was close, I would have ruled that he thought the equations to be incomplete and require either an additional component or slight alterations to match the equations in question (such as the Elemental Gems) to finish, since this would be a "pretty close, but not actually true" solution to the apparent puzzle. However, with that not being the case, he spends 4 full rounds touching the symbols in the correct order, thereby setting the circular indentations correctly and opening the door.
Making some Arcana checks and some Reach Detect Magic (to verify that the cone the floating guy is in detects as magical), the spellcasters deduce that the guy is floating through magical means and that the magic keeping him in place is weakened. A critical success the following turn also deduces that the mask itself is most likely the source of this magic. As such, the Wizard utilizes Telekinetic Projectile to knock the mask off of Mabar, which disables the magic (and thereby frees the Mummies. At this point, Initiative is rolled.
Mabar technically wins Initiative here, but considering the description stated in relation to his rescue, he was slow to get up, I didn't really have him act in the first round of combat, counting as Slowed 3 for this purpose (and taking 5 damage as a result). The Mummies won initiative, each of them swarming an available PC. Two of them hit for some solid damage, and cause both the Paladin and Wizard to fail their Saving Throws (though in this case Mummy Rot seemed way too weak). The players realize that the mummies are pretty brutal in melee combat, and need to bottleneck them so the players don't get torn apart simultaneously. From here, the Wizard follows up with Burning Hands to surprising effect, with a Critical Save from one mummy, a failure on the second mummy, and a critical failure on the third mummy so affected. The Barbarian following up with a Raging Red Dragon Fire Strike on said third mummy puts him down right quick (with me elaborating that the flames were catching on their bandages and thereby increasing the devastating effects of their fire attacks). At the start of the next round, Mabar stands up and turns invisible (he hears the Gnome saying something that sounds endearing and trustful, thereby sticking around to hopefully get the last blow in and engage in a dialogue).
The party retreats to the bottleneck southern hallway, with the Paladin holding point with his shield and the other party members running behind him to avoid getting swarmed. The mummies get numerous lucky hits in (with the Paladin getting either Cover or Shield Raise and the Mummies having less than stellar to-hit), but don't ever down the Paladin. The Cleric supports in the back with an AoE Channel, both healing the party and damaging the mummies for a minor amount of damage, the Barbarian hits with some Raging Fire attacks, and the Wizard contributes heavily with his Flaming Sphere (getting all Failures or Critical Failures, plus the Weakness 10 to Fire). The Paladin absorbs numerous attacks and manages to strike some enemies as well. If not for the bottleneck tactics, the damage would be more widespread (and probably more deadly, since the Paladin was sitting at an AC of 23 most of the fight), but once again, it seemed the right amount of deadly and surprising.
With the drop of the final mummy (before Mabar could try and punch it to death), Mabar emerges from Invisibility to thank his "rescuers," and offers his help. With the Wizard speaking Ancient Osiriani, and the Sorcerer having solid Diplomacy checks, they engage with dialogue and the Wizard is the middle-man. The sorcerer asks most every possible question, such as the layout of the tomb, where Tular Seft lays at rest, what his ambitions were, etc. The party feels the need to rest, so they all share some food and drink (Mabar making his own for his rescuers through his innate spells), and as such the end of Day 5 and the beginning of Day 6 begins.
The Cleric player, deciding to pull a prank on the Paladin, shoves him toward the mirror. When this happened, I actually added to the risk when the PCs asked what would happen if they jokingly shoved him in and to make a save, such as "Would this actually kill the PC?" And I said "It's possible." But it was equally funny when it was just a failure and I had the goblin pull this pose for the majority of the day in fear and insanity.
The players investigate the tomb, come across numerous texts which, with a successful Occultism check, resulted in the players acknowledging the texts being valuable to the Order of the Eye. They also realize the Mirror is worth a lot of money, and acquire the +2 Scimitar, Staff of Fire (which was given to either the Sorcerer or Wizard), and Scrolls of Stoneskin and Gust of Wind (the latter of which wasn't properly identified by the party, but by Mabar with a lucky roll). They also find the Countdown Clock, which they easily identify due to its powerful aura.
The PCs clear out the rest of the resting place (having Mabar carry the stuff since they are mostly full on their stuff), and originally intended to move down the right side, but statements from Mabar combined with their inability to open it due to lack of Expert Thievery, resulted in them unable to proceed down the hallway from C4. This was done largely as a deterrent from adventuring down that way as the adventure suggests, but if the PCs did find a way to open the door from Expert Thievery, I would have triggered the Night Heralds here, but with this being enough of a deterrent, and the Night Heralds being 2-3 days out yet, it didn't make sense for me to throw them here yet, even if the PCs had no clue when the Night Heralds would arrive.
With everything cleared out and their objective finished, the PCs exit out the way they came, trade the mirror to Zakfah on their way out to present to the Carrion King, and return to Kelmarane where they return the Countdown Clock to be in the Order's custody, receive their 50 gold reward (plus some extra gold for the basic things they find to sell, the sacred texts being traded, and other miscellaneous subjects).
However, there are still several loopholes and plot points to cover within this adventure that, as written, the adventure wasn't meant to cover. What happened to Zakfah's troop? Did they just return to the Carrion King with a lousy (even if expensive) mirror, or did they get greedy, try to find more loot, and get caught by the Night Heralds? Furthermore, would the Night Heralds have encountered the Fire and Air Elementals in C3, acquired their Elemental Gems, and be able to utilize them in a future fight (such as in the fight against the PCs)? And lastly, would the Night Heralds have enough time and gumption to continue their quest by encountering Zakfah's troop, defeating them, interrogating them, followed by killing them and stealing whatever loot they had, and tracking the PCs back to Kelmarane, thereby triggering this encounter and putting their skills as new-founded Order of the Eye operatives to work?
All of these things are both possible avenues to explore within this playthrough that have lasting consequences on the plot as the players know it (since several Night Heralds have story-related knowledge they could spill to the players), and are well outside the scope of the main intent of the playtest, which is to determine whether the PCs would easily beat an opposing NPC party to their objective. In this playthrough, it's been shown that the PCs easily beat them to the objective and without very much risk to their lives. (Yes, there were a couple players downed, but were easily and quickly revived as a result.) This could be a result of very lucky rolling, taking big risks that pay off, as well as player/GM ingenuity in relation to the adventure at hand. I can easily see how this could have gone bad for the PCs, resulting in them either encountering or losing to the Night Heralds, such as by not having someone trained in Thievery or Survival, not avoiding a couple encounters, needing to rest more than usual, or just simply not having the healing that a Positive Energy Cleric could pump out. So many factors could have gone against the PCs, but in this playthrough they didn't.
However, I can say that depending on tomorrow's circumstances will determine if we follow through with the Night Herald combat or not. If we do, we can at least determine how deadly the Night Heralds (with a customized 5th party member!) would've panned out in a general scenario, and if we don't, then I can easily rule that Zakfah returned to the Carrion King with a precious mirror (worth over 1,000 gold, I might add), with the Night Heralds not being foolish enough to face them, and as such would retreat to their masters and suffer whatever consequences await them.
The adventure itself was fun for me to run, and I learned a lot about having a GM Poker Face in relation to events (mostly psyching players out of taking Strides V.S. Steps with looming and falsified Attacks of Opportunity threats). I still need to learn to not be such a helicopter GM though, since it felt like I may have made certain aspects of the adventure easier than it should have, but I'd rather be a more permissive GM and let players do things than a dismissive GM which denies players things (unless it makes sense to do so).
This coming Monday, we will either run a separate one-off board game to buy time for other players to prepare and come join in on the next adventure, or we will make a proper conclusion to this chapter with the Night Herald encounter and additional plot points being mentioned. I'll post an update on whatever happens, but for the most part, I can say that this goose is cooked, and the dinner was pretty delicious.
Nice. I think looking at impact of half-space passage-ways / squeezing on combat is actually interesting to test, although not actually relevant here (and corridors are extreme linear manifestation of it, a wider room or area could also use squeezing rules for specific squares/groups of squares e.g. for furniture or low roof, to add terrain variety)
The Water Elemental jump attack does bring up interesting issues, on one hand "falling back to water" could be free effect but does that leave them at surface of water or would inertia send them deeper? Ruling they jump (move up) + attack + spend action moving down (falling + swimming deeper) seemed decent ruling in the moment.
I do like the swimming / holding breath thing hinging on CON (or 2*CON) = Actions, changes the dynamic from normal where you want to spend every action every round on SOMETHING to considering conserving actions if they aren't critical (especially for lower CON character / without deep breath).
Was the "solid Diplomacy Sorceror + language proficient Wizard acting as middle-man" handled as Aid, if Wiz is only one able to directly engage in Diplomacy? High skill character Aiding has good chance for Crit Success, not to mention other characters also Aiding, interesting dynamic even if Wizard is not so hot personally. It sounds like you made good use of Aid with Knowledge checks.
A good question on the Water Elemental. If it was just a random creature, I'd rule that inertia and such would take place (and probably require an Athletics check to resume swimming or drop as normal). But it has a Swim Speed and the Water trait, so I'd say it could just stop near the surface as a part of its movement. If a fish can do it, why can't a Water Elemental that looks like a fish do it?
While that makes sense, Diplomacy wasn't really required here. The Sorcerer attempted to do Diplomacy mid-combat, it didn't really convey anything to Mabar other than he wasn't hostile (and the party's actions further showed that), and that's only because he was rolling 20+ on the checks (even trying in different languages he knows!) and surpassing Mabar's Will DC.
Mabar is generally approachable if he is freed according to the book, and since the Sorcerer saved him and the Wizard can speak/understand Mabar, it became a simple translation sequence.
The Aid Another checks were helpful and certainly made a difference. It would have been really funny if the players tried for days to remove the dais from the tomb only to find it wasn't the dais at all and lose to the Night Heralds that way, but they were smart (and risky) enough to realize that wasn't the case. Even then, I don't think they could have done that short of a spell like Shrink Object (which I don't think exists in PF2 anymore!).
I am a bit confused how your Party avoided the latch rune:
Disable Thievery DC 19 (expert)As your group lacked expert thievery? Simple oversight, I guess, and I feel the trap is a bit unfair anyway.
For the Water Elemental I plan on having it dive always out of reach and then drag whoever is in the water down via vortex, while protecting it from out of water damage. With hits also taking Actions from the Players, I hope to get to use the drowing rules.
I didn't even realise that the Elemental Gems are supposed to be the actual magic item, I thought they were only McGuffins for the "riddle".
As for the riddle - did you only have them roll once? You do realise that they need to pick all 4 emblems, right?Looking Forward to have your group encountering the Night Heralds :)
It was an oversight, because I thought that it was the same as spotting, except with a Thievery check, and the irony is that I did have it written down as expert thievery. Oops. It would've only made them burn another channel heal at the end of that day, and they had a couple to spare, so it didn't skew the results that much, and the players had ideas like using Mage Hand to pull the latch (which I disallowed because it seemed to go beyond the intent of the spell) to bypass it.
As for the puzzle checks, it didn't read as each part having it's own check to me. From what I understood, the players make a check, realize that it was an "equation," and selected the parts in order based on what the equation was. While it can make sense for each part to have its own check, the person making the check has the Ancient Osiriani language (which I felt should make a difference), and it's not like each part is completely different from the other in terms of set-up or application based on how the entry read.
If the puzzle parts each required their own check, it might have slowed them down another day, but they were 2-3 days ahead, which meant they still would have beat them there more likely than not.
As for the Night Heralds, the group opted to not do the fight, (sorry folks!) and as such the results of that encounter will not be posted. We will be starting the Affair at Sombrefell Hall tonight (with me being a PC). As per the usual, I'll be posting our results in a separate thread later on this week, so stay tuned if you are interested!