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Specific Battery / Charging Questions for the FAQ (and simple suggestions for solution)


Rules Questions

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Butch A. wrote:


Fire extinguishers have a specified usage, which (by the rules listed) mean that they must use batteries, but their own rules also specify that they can be recharged for 10% of cost. Their battery must be a standard battery (which has 20 charges), and can be removed (again, according to the rules), so you can recharge your fire extinguisher for 1.5 credits, remove the fully charged battery, and use it in your gun or other item, rather than paying 30 credits to charge it.

the fire extinguisher mentions nothing about batteries, instead it states that it has 20 rounds of usage. not charges.

the only fire extinguisher we have current day that uses electricity is the sonic fire extinguisher, but it's not exactly efficient. it would be a much better idea to use something known to be more effective like halon, especially when things like your starship are at stake.


*googles sonic fire extinguisher* okay, that's pretty awesome.


Butch A. wrote:


A personal comms unit costs 7 credits and has 80 charges. That means it must come with a fully charged super-capacity battery, which costs 390 credits. You can sell the battery for 10% of the price and make 32 credits. It costs 195 credits to fully charge a 7 credit comms unit.

...

Beacons, flashlights, lanterns, spotlights, laser microphones, and motion detectors come with 10 charge batteries. Signal jammers come with 12 charge batteries. Detonators come with 5 charge batteries. There are no batteries with the listed number of charges, so it is not possible to buy a charged battery for these items, nor can you figure out a cost to recharge them.

looking closer, i found this thing under technological items:

Quote:
Capacity: This lists the maximum capacity for an item that requires charges to function. An item that holds electrical charges can be replenished with a battery.

so no yanking batteries out of comm unit. this now makes the recharge spell make more sense, as well as all the references to 'power cell'-power cells are integrated and can *not* be removed.

please, correct me if i'm wrong.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Perhaps you might come across some alien batteries you cannot decipher . Brands you recognize should be fine but from species youve never hewrd of might be hard to read.

Well, this is a rules forum so I guess this isnt too helpful.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber
jcheung wrote:


so no yanking batteries out of comm unit. this now makes the recharge spell make more sense, as well as all the references to 'power cell'-power cells are integrated and can *not* be removed.

please, correct me if i'm wrong.

Page 218. "Such batteries can be

recharged as normal using generators or recharging stations
(see Professional Services on page 234), or they can be replaced
(see Table 7–9: Ammunition for battery prices)."

Hence the link to weapon batteries, and the start of all these shennanigans.

Something that was brought up earlier. While it's clear that tech items come with a battery already installed, I didn't see anywhere that stated energy weapons come with a charged battery included in the price. I was under the impression they come empty, just like all other weapons.


i did manage to miss that bit. i had something really long written up to try to fight that, but it sounded stupid on reading it back...
my token attempt will be this: it says you can replace them, but not remove them '_'

Quote:

AMMUNITION

Weapons often employ electrical charges (typically stored in batteries), cartridges of ammunition, or individual missiles. A weapon’s capacity measures what size battery it uses or the number of cartridges it can hold, and its usage is how much ammunition it uses with each attack. You can use launchers to fire their corresponding missiles, which must be loaded individually. Reloading a weapon or inserting a new battery (including ejecting a spent cartridge or battery if necessary) takes a move action.

Weapons that use standard ammunition (arrows, charges, darts, mini-rockets, petrol, rounds, scattergun shells, etc.) are sold preloaded. For weapons with other forms of ammunition (such as grenades), ammunition must be purchased separately.

here's the bit where they come preloaded.


Here is what the GM of our group had to say:

The capacity of the weapon, is just that, the capacity. When you buy a weapon it does not come with a battery. The battery must be purchased separately. The same way you buy a bow and then arrows in Pathfinder

So if you have that level 1 shock rifle with a max capacity of 40. While it CAN use a level 5 battery, until 4th, you only have the 20 charges of the level 1 battery for 10 shots.

Now.. as far as the batteries themselves:
The amount of energy needed to inflict damage to another person requires a battery that holds a pretty serious amount of energy. These are not things you plug into a wall. Recharging a weapon-grade power cell is not like charging your computer. They have specialized facilities that can generate the energy needed to charge these batteries.

If you have a battery that can take an even larger charge, then it would require a more specialized setup and equipment. If not military, then industrial set ups to charge these monster power cell that are probably made from some insanely expensive materials.

Charging stations are not kiosks like charging your phone. These are specialized businesses that charge industrial batteries. Looking at it from the power station point of view, it would not matter if you only had to charge one charge or 25, it still takes the same amount of energy to spin up the generator needed to power up your weapon-grade cell. So in other words, once they have to activate their charging equipment, they still have to pay the same amount so they are going to charge you the same amount no matter if you ask for 1 charge or 50. It is all determined by the size and draw of the generator they need to plug your cell into. If it's a heavier cell then they will need to use the bigger machines so they are going to charge more.

I like this ruling and plan on using it in my own games.


But there's no cost when you have access to a charging station, whether on your own starship or readily available as part of a colony or some similar situation.

There is only the time to recharge, which is not at all covered that I found other than the rate of time per charge from the back-up generator armor upgrade.

Liberty's Edge

For reference, there has been a discussion about Batteries and how to use them on the Starfinder Society side of the house.

Here is the link to what Thurston posted the other day on this subject.


Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Roleplaying Guild Subscriber

Yeah....I really don't like the solution of "No batteries for you" when it comes to weapons. Not only does it put them at a disadvantage compared to projectile weapons (unless you're planning on making these come with no ammo as well?) The price of a battery is factored into their cost, and at low levels, even an extra 60 credits can be a big deal, never mind the cost of the high charged batteries.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Maps, Pawns, Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
The Mad Comrade wrote:

But there's no cost when you have access to a charging station, whether on your own starship or readily available as part of a colony or some similar situation.

There is only the time to recharge, which is not at all covered that I found other than the rate of time per charge from the back-up generator armor upgrade.

Public charging stations absolutely DO have a cost. It says so right there in the book. (Sorry, I don't have it on hand to give you a page number or quote.)

Liberty's Edge

Ravingdork wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:

But there's no cost when you have access to a charging station, whether on your own starship or readily available as part of a colony or some similar situation.

There is only the time to recharge, which is not at all covered that I found other than the rate of time per charge from the back-up generator armor upgrade.

Public charging stations absolutely DO have a cost. It says so right there in the book. (Sorry, I don't have it on hand to give you a page number or quote.)

Page 235 of CRB. Price 1/2 price of the battery or cell, 1 round (6 seconds) per charge.


Gary Bush wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:

But there's no cost when you have access to a charging station, whether on your own starship or readily available as part of a colony or some similar situation.

There is only the time to recharge, which is not at all covered that I found other than the rate of time per charge from the back-up generator armor upgrade.

Public charging stations absolutely DO have a cost. It says so right there in the book. (Sorry, I don't have it on hand to give you a page number or quote.)
Page 235 of CRB. Price 1/2 price of the battery or cell, 1 round (6 seconds) per charge.

Public charging stations =/= private ones such as the starship you own or the colony you are a part of/have been salvaging.

I'd missed the charging rate. Which means that there should be a credits-per-charge-rate since there is a time-per-charge calculation.

If the characters' starship charges them quarters to recharge their spent batteries ... there is definitely a problem.


The Mad Comrade wrote:


I'd missed the charging rate. Which means that there should be a credits-per-charge-rate since there is a time-per-charge calculation.

here's the problem.

Quote:
You can recharge a partially depleted battery or cell, but the price for doing so is the same as if it were fully spent.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
jcheung wrote:
The Mad Comrade wrote:


I'd missed the charging rate. Which means that there should be a credits-per-charge-rate since there is a time-per-charge calculation.

here's the problem.

Quote:
You can recharge a partially depleted battery or cell, but the price for doing so is the same as if it were fully spent.

Which is where the rules themselves should be subject to the unwritten rule of common sense. Electric vehicles don't cost a flat-rate to recharge whether fully depleted or only getting a top up. Nor does a gas tank. There is a price-per-charge - potency of said charge determined by the specific battery - if there is a time-unit-per-charge replenished. It takes a variable amount of time, ergo it is simple arithmetic to determine the actual recharge cost.

KISS has its uses ... this is one of those times when it fails.


KISS would be "batteries are one time consumable items"
would make it a lot easier to track >.<


Maybe easier but sooooo much more expensive...


Just have to drop the price accordingly, also KISS. Thanks jcheung!

Oooh, and ... we could put fusions on 'em without anyone batting an eye other than 'per charge' or 'per battery' being the debate.


truth. the only wrenches in the loop then would be technomancers using charging jolt or recharge.


jcheung wrote:
truth. the only wrenches in the loop then would be technomancers using charging jolt or recharge.

remove recharge/transfer charge, problem solved on those. Not read charging jolt yet.


think recharge, only double the effect on batteries with no chance of destruction or damage (i have yet to find something that is purely charged by battery, so the safe way to use recharge confuses me)

removing them would be a bit unfair to technomancer who can use battery to power their spells though lol.


Meh. Make batteries per-charge cost reasonable, they'll chew through 'em like Pathfinder characters snort charges from wands of cure light wounds. It'll work out. ;)

Wayfinders

Joseph Norris wrote:

Here is what the GM of our group had to say:

The capacity of the weapon, is just that, the capacity. When you buy a weapon it does not come with a battery. The battery must be purchased separately. The same way you buy a bow and then arrows in Pathfinder

So if you have that level 1 shock rifle with a max capacity of 40. While it CAN use a level 5 battery, until 4th, you only have the 20 charges of the level 1 battery for 10 shots.

Now.. as far as the batteries themselves:
The amount of energy needed to inflict damage to another person requires a battery that holds a pretty serious amount of energy. These are not things you plug into a wall. Recharging a weapon-grade power cell is not like charging your computer. They have specialized facilities that can generate the energy needed to charge these batteries.

If you have a battery that can take an even larger charge, then it would require a more specialized setup and equipment. If not military, then industrial set ups to charge these monster power cell that are probably made from some insanely expensive materials.

Charging stations are not kiosks like charging your phone. These are specialized businesses that charge industrial batteries. Looking at it from the power station point of view, it would not matter if you only had to charge one charge or 25, it still takes the same amount of energy to spin up the generator needed to power up your weapon-grade cell. So in other words, once they have to activate their charging equipment, they still have to pay the same amount so they are going to charge you the same amount no matter if you ask for 1 charge or 50. It is all determined by the size and draw of the generator they need to plug your cell into. If it's a heavier cell then they will need to use the bigger machines so they are going to charge more.

I like this ruling and plan on using it in my own games.

too bad what he's saying goes completely against RAW:

Quote:


AMMUNITION
Weapons often employ electrical charges (typically stored in batteries), cartridges of ammunition, or individual missiles. A weapon’s capacity measures what size battery it uses or the number of cartridges it can hold, and its usage is how much ammunition it uses with each attack. You can use launchers to fire their corresponding missiles, which must be loaded individually. Reloading a weapon or inserting a new battery (including ejecting a spent cartridge or battery if necessary) takes a move action.
Weapons that use standard ammunition (arrows, charges, darts, mini-rockets, petrol, rounds, scattergun shells, etc.) are sold preloaded. For weapons with other forms of ammunition (such as grenades), ammunition must be purchased separately.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Well, it's their game, so... rule 0.

Wayfinders

kadance wrote:
Well, it's their game, so... rule 0.

true, unless it's Society play...

Liberty's Edge

Corbin-626 wrote:
kadance wrote:
Well, it's their game, so... rule 0.
true, unless it's Society play...

We have been told to expect an answer (or at least part of one) next week for Society play.

Liberty's Edge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

On the Society side of the house, leadership has provided some clarity on this question.

For those interested, it can be found on this blog.

Grand Lodge

not pulling up


Kagerage wrote:
not pulling up

Another link: http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lk6h?Science-Huh-Aint-It-a-Thing#discu ss


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

LINKIFIED!

Liberty's Edge

Not sure why that link was wrong but thanks for providing a better link.

Grand Lodge

hmmm I will take from some of this


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

To prevent bots from spamming urls, any pasted url without the bracket code before and after has a space inserted into it to kill it.


Yep.

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