Hastur! Hastur! Hastur!'s page

88 posts. Alias of Dan Batchelor.


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lonejedi wrote:

I see this in the forums a lot... and even had it come up with me this week... so here's my two cents:

Try bringing up an Incognito browser window (some browsers have slightly different names for the "anonymous mode") and log in that way to try your shopping. The problem seems to be related to local caching of their site which you can either work to manually get cleared... or go Incognito where it ignores the cache (which also means you won't stay logged in after that browser session, but any purchases stay associated with your Paizo account, so small price to pay ;)

This worked like a charm. Thank you.

I am trying to purchase age of ashes #4 as a PDF but it just gives me an error when I attempt to add it to my cart.

Are digital purchases down during the pandemic?

Hope everyone stays healthy and safe.


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In our game (half way through age of ashes 10th level now) it feels as if casters is firmly in the support category. They are not bad but it definitely sucks when you throw off your big bad cone of cold to virtually no effect. We have now house ruled all pure casters start at expert and progress one step ahead getting a new step called archemage at 17th gaining an additional +2 over legendary.

Fixes the to hit issue and helps blaster as they have a better chance of crit fails on fireballs. it also helps when you pull out baleful polymorph or similar spells that you have a chance to at least incapacitate them for a round.

Even with this change martials are still far and away king damage dealers.

Orithilaen wrote:
Can you carry an intelligent item with you when you use dimension door?

In my game:

Familiar: Yes it can come with DD as it is bound to you.

Intelligent items: Yes they can come because they are items.

Your buddy in pest form. No not bound to you.

The real question is can I go pest form and jump on the back of say a Vrock and prevent him from DDing?

The glimpse of the anti paladin we got in the Game Mastery Guide has what I am assuming is the version of Champions reactions like retribution strike.

Unless I am missing something it is not good

Boiled down it works like this:

As a reaction when you are struck you may add 2d6 damage to the attack that is hitting you to then cause 2d6 damage to the attacker. You also gain 2 to damage on your strikes during your next round.

I hope Paizo can rework this as it has two glaring flaws:

1. For Champions AC is what they do. So why would I help my enemies by adding to the power of any blow lucky enough to connect.

2. Antipaladins do not get lay of hands so most likely are going to have 0 healing. While this makes senses thematically it also makes a power that causes me to soak more damage a poor choice.

I dont know maybe it is a missprint and it is supposed to decrease damage to the AP and cause it to the target.

Anyone else seeing something about this power that makes it better than what I am reading?

I would change flight speed to a flutter type power that allows small "hops" as flying magic is really limited in this version of the game

Megistone wrote:
I think it would be too easy to abuse. You can set up an incredibly powerful combo to fire in the same round, without giving your opponents a chance to react or heal.

Ehh, true a BB Lich could potentially annihilate a group with two back to back spells.

So per RAW you cant start an activity that you cant finish during a round in combat. The most obvious effect of this rule is that a caster can only cast one spell a round and then has to find something else to do for their last action.

However if we removed this limitation I think it adds some interesting strategic options.

Action 1-2 cast fireball
Action 3 begin to cast another fireball

Action 1 on my next turn: finish fireball
Action 2-3 cast lightning bolt

The interesting thing here is that while you are casting between rounds you would of course attract the attention of all the mobs who probably want you dead.

Critical hits from normal attacks would now disrupt your spell as if it was an attack of opportunity.

For casters it would increase spell output at the risk of losing spells to disruption or attracting additional attacks.

I am playing around with using this as a house rule but thought I would put it out to everyone in case I am missing some super OP pain in the ass thing I am not thinking of.

Reziburno25 wrote:

Feat 1: Fiendish Resistance
Your body has grown used to it's form granting you an fiendish resistance drawn from fore bearers. You gain either fire or cold resistance equal to half your level (minimum 1).

This grants an ability that is basically the ancestory trait of other races. I would limit this somehow. Something like gain resistance 3/cold or 3/fire your choice that then auto upgrades to 5/fire or 5/cold at 10th level.

Reziburno25 wrote:

Feat 1: Mighty Weaponry
Your fiendish claw or hands grow sharper and your tail more deadlier. You trained in both claw unarmed attack that deals 1d6 slashing damage, and has the finesse, agile traits and your tail unarmed attack deals 1d4 bludgeoning and has finesse and trip trait, both belong in unarmed weapon group. Your claws count as weapons when using them for purpose to meet requirements to use feats such as Twin Takedown or Double Slice and counted as wielded with an empty hand.

Probably make them choose to gain claws or a tail attack.

Reziburno25 wrote:

Prerequisites: Mighty Weaponry.
You know how use natural weaponry your fiendish blood grants you precisely. Whenever you critically hit using an unarmed attack grant by mighty weaponry or fiend heritage, you apply the weapon’s critical specialization effect.

As far as I recall there is not critical specialization traits for claws or tail attacks. Maybe in the bestiary?

Reziburno25 wrote:

Feat 5: Fiendish Twin Resistance
Prerequisites: Fiendish Resistance.
Your body has grown not just to resist one type of extremity but two, you gain other resistance offered by Fiendish Resistance that you didn't take.

As I mentioned above I would have the characters gain the second resist at 3/fire or 3 /cold with auto upgrade at 10th to 5.

Reziburno25 wrote:

Feat 9: Tiefling Grace
Prerequisites: Below Grace.
Over time your fiendish magic has matured. You gain Darkness as 2nd-level divine innate spell as well one other depending on your fiend heritage, Web if Shackleborn, Blur if Motherless, Enlarge if Pitborn and flaming sphere if Hellspawn. You can cast each of these divine innate spells once per day.

I could be wrong but this one feels too powerful. Granting two second level spells for one ability especially as they are all particularly useful (except for flame sphere that one is trash, you will never cast it at ninth level. Well maybe at night when you want to roast hotdogs at camp. Just hope the hotdogs don't save).

Reziburno25 wrote:

Motherless Heritage: Unlike others when born you almost tore you way out during labor do to the set of fully grown razor-sharp teeth lining your jaw. You gain jaw unarmed attack that has deals 1d4 piercing damage and has unarmed and finesse traits and gives temporary hitpoints of 1d4 back. You may also choose Abyssal as a language to start with due to your Qlippoth blood.

Increase the damage to 1d6; drop the gain of temporary hit points. A vampiric attack like would be OP for an innate ability.

RAW states "Nothing can hold you in place. You immediately escape from every magical effect that has you immobilized or grabbed unless the effect is of a higher level than your unimpeded stride spell. "

Going by the first line this spell would affect grabs, chains, tanglefoot bags, etc.

Going by the next line this would only affect magical bindings such as the web spell.

I assume the first line is just flavor text that we can ignore due to the second line but...


Ravingdork wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:

Weird it wont let me edit my own reply. Sorry meant to put the drunken role playing rant under a spoiler tag to save a wall of text.

The Paizo forums have a 1 hour window in which you can edit posts. After that they get locked, and you need moderator intervention to change them.

I see. I did not know that. Thank you.

Weird it wont let me edit my own reply. Sorry meant to put the drunken role playing rant under a spoiler tag to save a wall of text.

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The Ronyon wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:

That thing just about TPKed the whole group.

Large 4th Level group
Barbarian, Champion, Cleric, Sorcerer, Bard, Monk, Alchemist

What was the Bard doing?

“Interesting question.

Let me tell you something about “the bard”. So as i mentioned I am a failed bard. About century ago I have all the talent in the world and get accepted into a prestigious college. With my gift i can be the next Meric Songspinner or so I am told. I get to school things are going as planned. Early on I meet Vrett a gnome and his girlfriend a spunky little gnome named Amethyst. We call her Amy for short. Vrett is a good friend and doesn't really have my gifts but is a solid performer and has been at the school a few years so he takes me under his wing and shows me the ropes of campus life/ Amy, now Amy is another level. Better than me, beautiful, magnetic, eleteric. The three of us work closely together and I fall hard for her almost immediately. Being friends with Vrett I keep it all to myself. Or so I thought. I channel my pent up feelings into my art and push myself I am one of the only students to give Amy a real run for top performers.
Then one day Amy comes to me crying saying how Vrett has been cheating on her and dumped her for someone else. I comfort her which quickly turns to her pushing for more and soon enough I follow my heart and give in. We make passionate, mind blowing love. When of course right at the crescendo Vrett comes in. Nothing she said was true. Massive fight follows. Vrett hates me. My love for Amy is now rage, hurt and betrayal. Vrett leaves school.
I can't live with the guilt and leave to follow him. Fail to find him and become a wandering minstrel. AMy stays on at the school. Her only really competition gone graduates the top of her class.
Skip forward a century. I end up performing in the inns in Breechhil just killing time until there famed “Heroes for Hire day”. Amy shows up and does me the courtesy of not performing because she would get hired everywhere instead of me. Sadly this is just straight up fact but feels like a huge insult coming from her. “Don't condescend to me Woman!”

So in short what ever she was doing during the fight it was most likely screwing me over some how.”

Now to the Bargast fight. She (illegally cause we were too low. Thank god for mistakes in the players favor) used both the song of defense and Inspire confident. Healed several times and shot crossbow bolts at the fiend.

She DID NOT save our asses with her music. No matter what the others say. It was fine
I DID NOT run into combat to give that shocking grasp at touch range to impress her with my manliness.

Ubertron_X wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:
Also our wife actually rolls everything but secrect rolls in front of the group so I know she didnt fudge the victory for us. Other than the roleplaying reason of letting us go on prepared. We took down time to move striking and armor runes around. I did some research in town and got the vital info not to bring fire to the fight.


Apart from the fact that our GM had us rest and level up directly in front of the encounter we had absolutely no info that we are about to fight or what to expect. Also we did not have a single day of downtime since the AP started as events seemed to be unfolding at a rapid pace.

So our encounter started with a "spring attack" boss monster right in our faces, no place to maneuver, no additional knowledge apart from what we tried to find out in battle and somewhat underequipped (we used the rune weapons as we found them, i.e. our Dwarf fighter used a Rapier instead of his Battleaxe).

Wow, that fact that you are sitting here telling us your story is all more impressive. If we had gone that way the only way I'm talking to you is as a ghost. :)

Sam Phelan wrote:
Moved to Pathfinder General Discussion

Thank you. I thought that was where I had posted this.

Oh yeah and full disclosure. I have the ranged meta magic feet so closing in to hit him with a shocking grasp......yeah that was dumb on a couple levels. :)

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Also our wife actually rolls everything but secrect rolls in front of the group so I know she didnt fudge the victory for us. Other than the roleplaying reason of letting us go on prepared. We took down time to move striking and armor runes around. I did some research in town and got the vital info not to bring fire to the fight.

Henro wrote:

That is so, so awesome! Goodness what an incredible encounter, desperate fights with a final, heroic last stand are so good.

Your table will probably fear Barghests for a long time to come, did everyone survive in the end?

We all survived in the end. Laid the goblin tribe to rest. And I still haven't had a good night's sleep since that fight. :)

Reckless wrote:
I had Renali "summon" a giant spider to provide illusory creature flanking and it helped quite a bit, but yeah, tough fight for my group too

My sorcerer is your typical charisma boy rogue failed bard. He talked Renali into helping us. Also a vital factor. I left her out of my narrative because we promised to keep her secret from others until we could get her home and I was avoiding spoilers......sort of. :)

Zaister wrote:
Yeah, that is a tough, tough encounter at APL + 3. I haven't run it yet myself, my campaign is only getting there in 1-2 sessions, but I have read a lot of reports like yours...

We are not a min/max group really but we have multiple experienced roleplayers. I think many groups are in for a rough go of it. The goblin alchemist was given information about the encounter by the DM. In game she was a member of the tribe that had been sent forth to steal human children for it. In stead she found us. So we went in fully rested and freshly minted 4th level heroes. Just about died. Literally saved by an early lucky hit with an acid flask that just wouldn't go out and the champion getting a nat 20 with a striking great sword and doing basically max damage.

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That thing just about TPKed the whole group.

Large 4th Level group
Barbarian, Champion, Cleric, Sorcerer, Bard, Monk, Alchemist

My sorcerer is bleeding out on the floor after enlarging both the champion and the Barbarian I stupidly closed in for a shocking grasp. That did not go well. Fading in and out of consciousness I see the Barbarian screaming in rage even as she is hammered to the floor poison and blood running from her.
Monk was doing virtually nothing due to some protective magic. The thing just laughed at her as her blows land with no effect. It looked down at her then deliberately stepped past ignoring her feeble blows.
The cleric of Calistra is swearing in some language I don't know. She is a "reformed" champion of Asmodeus but I am not sure I buy it. I realize at the last that she is trying to heal me but the creature doesn't like that. The priest is wearing some type of plate armor that covers nothing and yet somehow protects her anyway. Calistra's doing no doubt. It doesn't work in this case and the priest and her sexy armor both hit the ground, dying.
The goblin alchemist is as far as she can get from the Demonic thing. Seeing her former tribe reduced to skeletons that have been placed in bizarre worshipful poses might have broken her. She has been throwing colorful flasks of gods know what at it but missing with most of them. She did get lucky and land something green (acid?) on it and it has been burning away on the skin of the beast. I have no way of knowing if it is even feeling it.
The beast moves to finish me off. I am already done for but it is impatient. The monster's claws slashes down and the last thing I see is the champion's great sword thrust through the back of its head.

Thank the gods for Natural 20s.

Super fun fight but DAMN!!!!!!!!

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Natan Linggod 327 wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:
Natan Linggod 327 wrote:

And there is no mention of needing 'talent' to become a wizard anywhere that I can find. Just time, money and education. All of which the upper classes have in abundance.

There is no mention of it because as a PC if you want to become a wizard you become a wizard. Obviously it takes a talent to do it. Do you honestly think if tomorrow medical school or law school was made free that everyone would be Doctors or lawyers? No way. A lot of people would go to school for it and while we would get some great doctors or lawyers out of it, we would end up with many more drop-outs or bad doctors and lawyers. There is no "talent" for either profession but it takes a combination of traits that not everyone possesses.

Back in PF1 this would be a lot of people getting 1 level of doctor(Wizard), then getting the rest of their levels in something else.

And we aren't talking about the average Joe-in-the-street here, but people with the resources to ensure even the least talented of their brood gets an excellent education.

Also, let's say that Wizardry talent is something that's 'inborn' like a Sorcerer. Wouldn't the upperclasses marry with that in mind? After all, political and economic marriages are much more common among them than among the lower classes. Adding in the requirement for marriage being a history of magic talent seems like a no brainer to me.

And remember that magic isn't something new. It's been around since day dot so a lot of the older family lines would already have been marrying for magic talent for centuries.

In fact, given how important magic would realistically be in a world where it actually works, I would expect that NOT having magic talent would be more of a rarity among the upper classes rather than otherwise.

Oh I agree that every noble house and well off merchant would want to have a wizard in the family. And again using the real world as an example many rich families do have kids that are lawyers or doctors. High powered families would have to keep magic in mind all the time. I think it would be more along the lines of every kid would be trained in the Arcane skill. Even if you have no talent for magic you could have a thorough understanding of how it worked.

Of course if the OP was asking if making a world were every noble was a wizard would work. Then absolutely it could work. I would probably give everyone the adapted cantrip feat even if they are not casters for free at first level. Then have every noble take the wizard dedication at 2nd level.

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Natan Linggod 327 wrote:

And there is no mention of needing 'talent' to become a wizard anywhere that I can find. Just time, money and education. All of which the upper classes have in abundance.

There is no mention of it because as a PC if you want to become a wizard you become a wizard. Obviously it takes a talent to do it. Do you honestly think if tomorrow medical school or law school was made free that everyone would be Doctors or lawyers? No way. A lot of people would go to school for it and while we would get some great doctors or lawyers out of it, we would end up with many more drop-outs or bad doctors and lawyers. There is no "talent" for either profession but it takes a combination of traits that not everyone possesses.

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citricking wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:

Casting spells requires the talent to do so and takes real effort. It also takes expensive schooling. Not everyone is able or willing to do it.

In real life everyone should be a lawyer and a doctor as both can have powerful impacts on your life. Most people are not either though.

They don't have nearly as powerful effects on your life as magic, especially if you're already rich and and powerful, they don't affect you much.

Of course they do. In fact more so if you are rich and powerful. Who do you think pays all those high priced lawyers.

The fact is, it is much easier to pay a guy who did all the schooling and learning than it is to do all that yourself.

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Casting spells requires the talent to do so and takes real effort. It also takes expensive schooling. Not everyone is able or willing to do it.

In real life everyone should be a lawyer and a doctor as both can have powerful impacts on your life. Most people are not either though.

ZᴇɴN wrote:

Castlevania Combat Cross.

That is all.

Simon was raised by gnomes? You know, actually, that clears a lot of things up for me.

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HidaOWin wrote:
Also, the flickmace could look like a ball and chain flail with some cunning self retracting mechanism. Or look a bit like a meteor hammer. It could definitely look cool.

Sorry but the most "cool" this ridiculous thing looks is like the guy at the gas station with the extendable key ring or maybe as mentioned above a paddle ball.

Here is a video to show you the coolness:

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I see that Paizo made, arguably, the best 1 handed weapon a yo-yo that you need to be raised by gnomes to use.

GM: “Your barbarian was raised by gnomes?”

Player 1: “Yes, and every time he lost his temper his parents made him stay in his room and his only entertainment was his yo-yo.”

Player 2: “Weird, my fighter was also raised by gnomes but his parents bought him two yo-yos to play with.”

Player 3: “You two sound like powergamers. Not me, my martial is based off the tried and true yo-yo and board style fighter that every fantasy movie ever has. He became an adventurer when his adoptive parent’s village was wiped out by orcs.”


Bandw2 wrote:

man that TPK one feels like a narrative fudge roll, but you do you. sounds like you're a good DM.

meanwhile, I roll everything secret. well, technically I take a picture of anything crazy, but I GM mostly through the net but use real dice.

Oh narratively it is. However I dont have a problem with it as either I misjudged the power level of the foe or the group got super unlucky. In either of those cases I am willing to use a get out of jailfree card.

On the other hand

If they players attacked the Lich despite many warnings they were not ready to face this foe and then failed to run away when given the chance. I will keep that TPK that is one them.

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Kade Gryffinhart wrote:

That is the same with campaign settings for existing systems. They tended to start as a homebrew first. I don't think the problem tends to come in fudging the rules or the rolls to help the story and the players along. I think the problem is when you are fudging them to punish players for pissing you off or because you are seeing the die the rolled horrible with last week do mostly above average this week.

When dealing with a campaign setting that you and your players are creating, I feel it is important to create and alter rules so that they fit your setting more. When dealing with new players that have never played before, I find it important to play a little looser with the rules. The faster a new player's character dies out of the gate, the less likely a the player is to return to not only your campaign but the game as a whole. Heck I don't even like it when established players die right out of the gate. I'm not running that one campaign from years ago where the whole point was to see how quick the party would be TPK.

But that is just my opinion and experience.

I never fudge rolls. In fact, other than secret rolls, I roll everything in front of the players. I don't tell the players what the enemies need but everyone is going to know that a 1 or 2 is probably bad. They might suspect I am fudging it if the Lich rolls say a 7 to save and I say that is a success but overall I think this helps a lot with player trust. Keep in mind it also means that I don't fudge to save players either. I like there to be a sense of danger. If players don't die they aren't being heroic they are just not being lazy when the save someone. However that last sentence is a whole nother topic.

This is how a typical situation might go in one of my games. The characters are about to charge into a throne room of undead with the BIG BAD LICH sitting on the throne.

Here is what I think

Should happen: Fight of several rounds with both sides getting in a few good blows and the fun of unleashing there saved up big gun attacks.


Barbarian leads the charge and gauges the strength of the undead minions.
Wizard AOEs and kills or damages many of them.
Fighter: Charges the skeletal champion on the dias.
Rogue: Moves in and helps the fighter
Lich: Monologues and throws out spells causes damage but not killing anybody.
Group: Descends on the Lich and beat him down

Could Happen: The lich fails an early save to the Wizards disintegrate or dies to a lucky critical hit from the warrior.


Wizard: If I have line of sight I want to use my disintegration spell on him.
Me: Roll to hit (Wizard rolls and succeeds)
Me: With crash of steel on steel the fighter hits the Skeletal Champion knocking the undead warrior aside. For just a moment the Lich is standing clear in front of its throne. The wizard’s chanting echoes across the room and for just a moment the lights flicker as all the green in the spectrum appears to gather at the wizard’s fingertip and then lancing out to strike the Lich on the chest…..(Roll in front of the group gets a natural 1 takes 200 damage) The Lich form is touched by the green light and colors seem to turn negative as with an echoing cry he is destroyed.

My mental response to a 2 round fight that was a semi climax to a story arc. “That kind of sucked to end off 12 levels of build up. “Hmm, let me…..”
Me: "As you search the throne room a loud rough voice and a shimmering demonic figure appears standing in front of the Throne. “Acererak, have you dealt with those pesky mercenaries yet?” The form is obviously a projection. Your arcane lore tells you it is most likely being sent from somewhere nearby.

I am now mentally creating an additional adventure to let the group hunt down a demon who is the power behind the lich.

Could Happen: We lose a character or two in the first round to a blown save and the group needs to retreat double quick


Me: With crash of steel on steel the fighter hits the Skeletal Champion knocking the undead warrior aside. For just a moment the Lich is standing clear in front of its throne. The wizard’s chanting echoes across the room and for just a moment the lights flicker as all the green in the spectrum appears to gather at the wizard’s fingertip and then lancing out to strike where the lich had just been standing. The throne disappears in a burst of arcane energy. The Lich points his own skeletal hand and fires a very similar green bolt at the wizard. (One critical fail roll later)
The wizard didn't even have time to react. Mentally still tied up in the arcane destruction you just unleashed your form is torn from the world.

The groups fighter is hit with a spell and goes down, Things get bad. Cleric calls the retreat. Barbarian makes a move through grab to snatch up the fight in a fireman’s carry. Rogue grabs up the fighters sword as he runs for the door. The megalomaniacal Lich realizes these worms are beneath him and instead of finishing them off he laughs and taunts the foolish mortals. His minions harry the group until the have fled the castle. I don't just do resurrections all willy nilly in my games. They always require something special. It makes death matter more than it does in a video game.

Afterward the game I pull the wizard aside to find out a couple of things: 1) Do you wish to continue playing the same character? Most often this answer is yes but sometimes the player wants a change anyway. If not we plan on rerolling a character. If so then….
2) I am going to have you play an NPC for the next session or two as the group travels to save your soul. I give her the background and what the true motives of said character are and swear her to secrecy.
3) I have never had this happen but….They have no wish to play and NPC they can either come and watch or take the next session off.

After they patch themselves up the cleric finds out as the wizard died her soul was taken captive by a demon who is in league with the lich. They will have to hunt down the demon to free the wizard's soul. This allows the group to get a little more XP or items to face against the lich when they return. The dead wizard comes back with as much XP as the experience of death/transference to a different state has shown her new things so she stays at the level of the group.

Could Happen: TPK (Total Party Kill) On a TPK this is either extreme bad luck on the partys part and lots of “1” came up. Or I planned a “Dangerous” encounter that was really an “Impossible” encounter. In these cases I usually take it easy. Depending on how the deaths happened I use a couple of options:


“Conan you are the last to fall. You realize this foe was too great for you and his taunting laughter chases you into darkness.”

Option 1: It was basically damage that killed them and not death effects or disintegrations.
“You awaken the sound of water dripping. You are naked and laying on a cold stone slab. Looking around to get you bearings you seem to be in some sort of cell. You hear the sound of your friends waking up nearby. Beyond the bars is a chamber. Some mad alchemist lab or torture’s den. Either way you are sure you don't want to stay long…….”

Option 2: Death from death effects or disintegration. The lightly glowing globe appears to be suspending the group in the void. You can see nothing in every direction. As the party looks around A. voice rings out. “Hello my friends, I apologize for interfering but I have been following your progress closely and could not let that fiend win.” An Ancient silver dragon appears out of the void. “Acererak is more dangerous than you know. Demonic forces have been helping him from the shadows. I will return you to the village but you must track down this demon before attempting to face the Lich again.”

Could Happen: The thief is snuck through the door and attempts to sneak past the lich and through the secret door behind the throne and regains the “Holy Relic of Great High Lord Macguffin” and is lucky enough not to get seen. The group gets some XP for pulling off the heist.


“As triumphantly hand over the Holy Macguffin you looted from the Lich there is an explosion of noise. Rising into the air on a horse with flaming hooves is Venger Acererak and he looks perturbed. His undead minions are descending on the village.”

Could Happen: The characters try something I didn't think of


No idea I didnt think of it. Justa adjust the best I can. :)

So I know what your thinking:

Damn, did he really just type all that

Tl;dr I dont fudge rolls I just adapt.

*edits to do some cleanup of this stupidly long post :)

Frogliacci wrote:

2e meanwhile is way too new for any substantial houseruling to not look suspicious, though.

I agree on this as well it is too soon to make major changes. I have no idea how this system will even work yet. Hopefully RAW is solid enough to reduce the need for any or at least only a small handful of house rules.

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Nox Aeterna wrote:

Simply put, being a social game, discussion will end up being the way decisions are made, but I do think the RAW can weight heavily on how those discussions go.

Oh I agree discussions with your GM should be the go to move. I just dont quite understand the "X spell is" is uncommon or rare and now GMs can disallow it and that sucks. I want a rule that forces the GM to allow me to have X spell"

Why? If the GM was against something being in his game and as mentioned above even if you could "force" the GM to allow you to have "X spell" why would you want to do this?

A good GM should be more than happy to help you realize your character design assuming it would not be completely broken or there is another in-story reason for it. The GM should be able to explain why they are restricting the spell.

A bad GM is just a bad GM and you are probably better off not playing with them regardless of what they are restricting or weather you could use RAW to force your way with them.

Evilserran wrote:

I have been gm and p-layer since 3.5 and have abso9lutely seen the gm vs player mentality. There are a few certain GM's I outright avoid in Society, when I can, at least with specific builds. Their interpretations of the rules (gm's) are quite often shoddy, and at least one in particular, will tell you you cannot do/go/charge/move where you wanted, because X, but you declared it already so you have to change a target or do nothing... I have nearly lost several charge based characters in 3.5 and PFs due to this gm style.

As a GM, I have seen players "modify" a rule, or alter its meaning by a clever trick of language to try and cheat past a feat, or do something undoable. I have seen a rock thrower claim they could throw sling bullets with full ititerative attacks, while dual wielding at level 1, and they didn't even have quick draw....When I informed them they could not, they proceeded to complain about how their home GM said it was fine, and went to ask all the other GM's present, who sided with me.

That being said, with the 80+ some odd people I have interacted with in over 17 years of play, I am pretty sure those issues can be counted on two if not one hand.

Wow, I feel your pain. This is the type of stuff that makes my ears bleed. Certain things I find so nonsensical that even if they were allowed by the rules I might not allow them. However I try and be upfront about it. If an experienced player is coming into my game with a character I like to go over it with them before the game. One question I always ask is "So what is your big gun attack" and it behooves a player to tell me "Oh I dual wield two slings and machine gun baddies to death like a cartoon character" That way I can let them know they should look elsewhere to play or maybe we can find a different way to design the character that would work in my world.

*Edits to correct spelling

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N N 959 wrote:

I'll bite.

The reason I play PFS is to avoid GMs invoking Rule 0. Why?

1. I'm interested in playing Pathfinder. I'm not that fascinated with GM Bob's version of Pathfinder. No offense to GM Bob, but I don't think GM Bob's house rules/modifications are going to be a net improvement over the efforts of professional game designers. Time and time again I've seen GMs make house rules to alter rules/mechanics that they don't fully understand. Like pulling on a loose thread of a knit sweater, GM rule-zeroing creates more problems than it solves.

I agree you need to let your players know your rules/changes. I mean there is an old story floating around about a guy who went to a gen con in the early days of D & D and got into a game where he was attacked by a duck driving a +1 hotdog stand.

However the complaint isn't “I keep getting into f$%^ing games and dying to a f$%^ing duck driving a hotdog stand. It is “this rule allows the GM to much power” let’s be honest here do you really think GM running the duck driving the Hotdog cart going to care about RAW.

N N 959 wrote:

2. Pathfinder is a cooperative game. As a GM, I don't "own" the game, it belongs to all the people at the table. There is no game without players and GMs, I don't see one as more critical to the game than the other, there just happens to be more players than GMs. Obviously for game play, it makes sense to enable the GM to make adjudications when the rules are ambiguous or players can't agree.. But the GM isn't always the most knowledgable about the rules and as GM, I get to decide because the players agree to it.

As the GM you don't “own” the game but most are trying to tell a story that you can enjoy along with the multiple players. As a GM I am not worried about someone pointing out that spending 3 rounds and heightening the spell to third level gets them 6 magic missiles not 3 like I said. That is fine and I actually like players who are knowledgeable about rules that can catch those types of brain farts.

N N 959 wrote:

3. IMO, the game is most enjoyable when the GM's presence is transparent. When I GM, I don't want to imprint my "style" on the players. I want them to perceive that the outcomes were not at all influenced by my personality. Obviously that is still my style, but by way of analogy, I'm trying to serve unflavored water.

Interesting because as a GM I definitely have a style of GMing. Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones both have a severely different flavor of storytelling. One isn't better than the other and certain flavors might suit your tastes better than others but both are tasty. You just need to find one that suits you and hope it isn't D&D the movie flavored (eeeeegads)

I don’t force a predetermined outcome because that is how “I” planned it. I set up situations and let the players handle it how they may. Sometimes I know how it will turn out and sometimes the players do something off the rails that I didn't see coming. In those cases I just adjust and move on. Often times it can make the story more interesting that what I had planned.

N N 959 wrote:

4. A GM refusing to follow the rules engenders a feeling of player vs GM, for me.


This may just be a matter of perspective. To me if I point out a rule to a GM and they acknowledge it but keep the situation the same. I just assume that either:

1) There is something going on that I am not aware of...or
2) The GM forgot about something and now a basic spell is about to ruin his murder mystery or whatever and so he is ignoring the rule. Either way I don't feel combative. I just roll with it.

P.S. If any of this sounds snappy it is not meant to be. I appreciate your perspective on this.A big reason I might not have run into this is I play with players I know in real life. Lately I have been thinking about running a game at a local shop just to allow people without a GM a chance to play. But all this adversarial nonsense has me rethinking it.

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Dear Miss Manners,

I have seen many posts on the boards here that complain about the rules allowing the GM “too much power” and a few that complain about players “getting to much control”.
I honestly do not understand this. I have been both a player and a GM since the original hardbound AD&D books and this makes no sense.
As a GM I am going to run the game I want to run. For instance in PF1 when I tell you cant have more than one class per 5 character levels. I am not going to allow your Ninja/Paladin/Assassin/Rogue/Fighter/Monk/Gunslinger/Barbarian/Ranger/Druid /Butcher/Baker/Candlestickmaker into my game. Now you can show me exactly where in the books it says this is a legal character and how wrong I am. Hell, you could have the highlord of Paizo himself come down and tell me in a thunderous voice “Hastur! You are wrong. This character is legal.” Guess what? You still can't play that character in my game. I don't care about your law degree in PF1 rules. If you don't like how I run my game go elsewhere.
Now that being said as a GM I am trying to lay out a world for exciting stories and allow players to help tell those stories and hopefully have a ton of fun playing. And while I may have a certain way I do things I am not at odds with the players. It is a group effort. If you as the player didn't have fun during a session I as the GM probably didn't either. As the GM I have reasons for the things I do. Certainly I have better things to do then just show up to run a game where I f&*$ with you all night.

Tl;dr So my question is? What is happening in games where players feel that a rule in the book is going to help them? Are there really that many petty GMs that are just arbitrary f@#&ing with characters? And if so does a rule written in the book actually help?

In the situation I posted above if I caved into the thunderous voice of the Highlord of Paizo and allowed you to play your character would you really want to play in my game. If I was the player and had a character the GM didnt want to allow I would have no qualms about changing it or trying with a different GM.

-Signed Honestly Confused

Blave wrote:

The trait only means it's a feat belonging to the sorcerer class. All class feats and all focus spells have their respective class as trait. It doesn't have any rules attached to it, so it doesn't limit your abilities in any way.

As for Bloodline Conduit, by RAW you could use it for spells you got via multiclassing.

By RAI, it might be intended to be only for sorcerer spells. But since this is a capstone feat and limited to 5th level spells without duration, I can't see it doing anything that would break the game.

Thank you for the reply.

I agree I dont see it being broken at all to cast spells gained from Multi-classing and if I had to rule on it in a game I ran that is what I would rule.

I just wanted to make sure I wasn't over looking some side bar rule that specifically disallowed that.

I missed the sidebar on the Incapacitation trait and that makes a HUGE difference in how those spells function. :)

I am a Sorcerer with Cleric Archetype and Master Cleric casting ability. If I take the Sorcerer Ability of Bloodline Conduit am I able to cast 5th level or lower cleric spells with no spell slots once a minute or because it has the Sorcerer tag will it only apply to my Sorcerer spells.

I was unable to find what the Sorcerer tag on an ability does if anything.


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Gisher wrote:
Be wary of BIG ALCHEMY!

See Gisher here gets it. I'm just saying be careful what those alchemists hand you. Sure they SAY its a healing potion and the next thing you know your hands have turned into tentacles.

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NielsenE wrote:
just a big ole pile of goodberries that don't heal?

Sorry I know they all say their food is "pure", and "wholesome" but there is way too much green sludge and smoke coming out of those alchemy guilds.

I'm leaning towards freeze dried soilent-green.

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A weeks worth of rations is light bulk and can be held in one hand. I'm not sure I could hold 7 modern day military MRE packs in one hand.

What do you suppose the alchemist guild is doing to make food so light and do you suppose it has something to do with all the aberrations in the world?

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I dont know the odds as I am not a math guy but I will throw in my 2 cents. I have seen a lot of posts about how powerful monsters are in the this edition.

For me this is a huge plus. I like my players to be worried about dying. Scary monsters make characters that much more heroic. If I want to run and easier game it is very easy to run lower level mobs against the players.

My only gripe about the current system (which appears to work very much liek the starfinder system) is that monsters of a particular CR are very, very similar. The monster creation system kind of makes it so there are just 3 monsters at ever CR ad caster, fighter, and skill monkey. I dislike that Pit Fiend and Balor Demons are basically identical because they are both CR 17.

IF they could work a little more variety into each CR level I would be happy.

N N 959 wrote:
Hastur! Hastur! Hastur! wrote:

The internet has had 10 more years to improve fan toxicity since the PF1 play test. It is now Master levels and training hard for legendary levels.

But remember as these boards will be quick to point out that is only +2 better at toxicity levels so really not that much more toxic. Why even bother practicing to be mean and rude to each other for a crappy +2.

Funny. And you know and easy way to fix that? Outside of attack rolls, let each Skill level roll another d20 and take the best. So someone Trained in Toxicity gets 2 rolls to get it right where someone Legendary gets 5. But we'll see if Paizo goes that route. If not, I'll be back here rolling the die five times.

I do sort of like this idea but the crits would be insane. What about allowing at legendary allowing 5 times during the adventuring day you can roll advantage another 20 sided. Then if I really want to be mean, rude, and toxic I can tell the GM I am spending one of my additional dice to craft my post.

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Counter point:

3 Fighters with Furious focus and a healing cleric. Which also has the advantage of not burning spells on every attack.

Jokes aside I am happy that your unusual group seems to be working. :)

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I love the idea of resonance. Binding with powerful magic items and avoiding the Christmas tree effect are worthy goals as is increasing the game power of the charisma stat.
It is funny that in an RPG the stat that will get your the furthest in real life (Charisma) is one of the most common dump stats.

I feel like the limiting consumables needs to be addressed in a different way.

Maybe wands no longer cast spells but add damage or other effects to spells. A wand of Charm adds +1 to the DC of any charm spell you cast. A wand of healing auto heightens +1 any heal spell you cast. Etc etc

Staffs can just expand your castable spells. So a character that has bound a staff of fireball can use 3rd level spell slots to cast the fireball spell even if he didn't memorize it today.

Potions: can be limited by
Player: "Good shop keeper I have 10,000,000 gold and want to buy every healing potion I can. "
Shop Keeper "Very well sir, I will ring you up for (GM rolls a d6) 3."

Healing and the 15 minute adventuring day is a whole different problem as well.

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The internet has had 10 more years to improve fan toxicity since the PF1 play test. It is now Master levels and training hard for legendary levels.

But remember as these boards will be quick to point out that is only +2 better at toxicity levels so really not that much more toxic. Why even bother practicing to be mean and rude to each other for a crappy +2.

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Put me in the camp of people who love the stamina system. I am an old school gamer (Original Hard Cover AD&D times) and was very leery of stamina when I first read Starfinder but I came around in a big way.

Stamina ups the intensity of fights. When the mobs knock someone into hit points of damage "S@#t just got real" Suddenly every hit is a potential problem and crits can be down right deadly. This allows a group healer to do things other than healing for the first part of a fight and then swoop in and be a hero.

Mobs are so powerful that virtually ever fight someone would take damage. This was a much more interesting mechanic than just hit points. You know you will be going into the next fight with your stamina topped off so do you waste resources healing your 10 points of hit point damage or just allow it to linger and hope the mobs dont get through stamina again.

Stamina allows a group to run without a healer. Granted the GM will have to role back the fight difficulty a bit but I believe adventures and combats would be every bit as intense.

Stamina is a great mechanic because it slows down the rate that players "lose" fights. As soon as you burst through to hit points of damage the players are on the ropes but now healing spells and magic items can slow the descent.

Also, There are not 2 pools to track with stamina. Just one really. If I have 70 stamina and 70 hit points then you just track damage like alwasy. As soon as I have taken 71 damage I am now into hitpoints.

GM: "Iron man just hit you for 71 stamina. Thanos, you are now into hitpoints."
Player: I touch the blood on my cheek and say "All of that for a drop of blood."
GM: Nice I am going to allow a free intimidation roll.

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Witch of Miracles wrote:
magnuskn wrote:
Witch of Miracles wrote:
This is reaching a point where you just need the GM to use common sense (which is, admittedly, dangerous). You can't just sit around in a dungeon for 10 minutes while the wizard is meditating on his spellbook without consequences. Are there no patrols? Is there no wildlife? Hell, even if they acknowledge that, is the rest of the party going to keep escorting this maniac out of the dungeon so he can swap spells in peace every time the situation changes slightly? Continuously...
If you read the official AP's from Paizo, then the answer is "yes, you can totally sit all day on your duff in dungeons and do whatever, as long as you move three rooms back." Because monsters seldomly move from their rooms. The dungeons with active patrols and so on are very few and far between.

That's what I mean about common sense, though.

Combat is loud. Extremely loud. If you're forgetting that a lot of the dungeon has a shot of hearing you if you start clanging swords around, that's an issue.

Certainly, not -every- dungeon has active patrols, and not every dungeon has monsters willing to leave their rooms, but in the vast majority of cases, if an intelligent dungeon inhabitant hears combat, the party is probably going to end up on something of a timer as those inhabitants start moving to check it out. Same goes if they alert the wrong person. (I still well remember my party entering the boss room in Catacombs of Wrath first, then just getting slammed by everyone the boss could alert arriving in waves.) While it's also your job to exercise "don't penalize the party for making mistakes they couldn't have known to avoid," you've also got to play the enemies out in a reasonable fashion.

Also worth noting that if enemies won't or shouldn't leave their rooms, there's usually a good reason (forge at hook mountain is loud and full of clanging noises anyways, so enemies there probably wouldn't hear combat at the entrance; bosses taking time to buff once the...

Spending 10 minutes, even in a dungeon, is nothing. It takes that long to search a room properly. At best the wizard will just not help with the search and will change up spells.

Also something is overpowered if it requires the DM to be constantly thinking of a way to not let the player use it as printed.

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