So, we recently finished Carrion Crown, and the GM proposed a "continue" of that adventure path, homemade, but related to.
The new "Carrion Crown pt2" will be played by a PC "some way related" to the PC we played in Carrion Crown.
I was playing a gnome illusionist (and i know, he didn't work so good, due to the presence of a lot of undead monsters/immune to illusion monsters xD!).
So, now i need some ideas on what to play next, the new PC will be bounded by background to the old one (and we will play some sessions, like 3 i think, to introduce, using the old PCs, our new PCs) and that will not be hard for me i think... but the build, that's another story, i've always been bad at building PCs.
Any advice is very appreciated.
BP: 20 points
Level: 1
Race: Gnome (my last PC was a Gnome, so i think to bound the new by background is sensed to play a gnome again, but if you've other ideas i'm glad to read those!)
Gold: Level 1 Gold
Traits: 2
For now, about the party, i've just an idea about one of the PCs and i think he's gonna play a slayer, ranger, druid or paladin.
Thanks for reading!
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If you want something interesting. Id recommend an Oradin (paladin with a 1 level oracle dip).
I would look at Nature or Lore Oracle. Each of these has a revelation that lets them use their Cha modifier to AC instead of Dex. Lore has Sidestep Secret. Which also lets you use Cha instead of Dex for Reflex saves. Nature has Nature's Whispers that also lets you use Cha instead of Dex for CMD. There was also a ruling that you cannot add a single stat to anything twice. So Nature would work better without needing to check with your GM.
This also gives you a couple of extra skills and spontaneous spells for possible healing.
Gnomes would work nice for this build, because they get a Con and Cha bonus.
First, thank you for the advice!
The PC my friend is preparing could be a paladin; anyway, despite the fact we could be 2 paladins in a group, paladin has the big issue (to me) of being LG. I don't get very well with the "you must be", then considering the kind of campaign i was more interested in something different (we usually always play as the good ones, devoted to the good, and prepared to die for it).
I don't mean i want to be evil, nor the GM probably will allow me to do so, but i don't know...something different would be good.
If i have to pick a good character i saw something interesting about a Cavalier, something about a Tea-cup, i don't remember the name tho.
A necromancer could fit well the campaign imho, tho i don't know if it works well with gnomes.
EDIT: the paladin is in good contrast with the previous PC, who was a scared gnome, always fleeing in combat, so i'm keeping the idea you gave me on my list!
Undead aren't immune to illusions, dunno what your GM was doing there. Well, illusions like color spray which affect them directly yes, but illusions like silent image fool them as well as any living being.
Some simple undead-zappers a gnome can do:
A cleric focusing on channeling. Worship Iomedae, take the Sun and Glory domains, grab some channeling feats (& maybe channel smite and guided hand if you want to do a little melee sometimes). Something like Str 8, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 16 could work.
A paladin archer. Smiting works well with range. Take the usual ranged feats, PBS, precise shot, rapid shot etc. Str 12, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 10, Cha 16
A kineticist. Make sure you have one of the energy blasts so you don't have trouble with incorporeal undead, get weapon finesse & kinetic blade in case you get caught in melee, then take PBS, precise shot, toughness, weapon focus (kinetic blast) and then whatever takes your fancy. Str 6, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10 makes you accurate, tough and hard-hitting.
The Paladin LG alignment is not as bad as some people fear it to be. Also there should be no problem with a paladin, who is immune ot fear affects being a friend to another person. Maybe he is still trying to instil courage into his childhood friend :P
But if the alignment is an issue for you, no worries.
Gnomes sometimes adopt members of other races. If you want to branch out to a different race, just make them adopted by gnomes via trait.
I think you are being a little too restrictive in what LG is, but if you aren't interested there is no need to continue that discussion.
If Paladin or Oradin doesn't interest you, how about a Swashbuckler or a Bloodrager? You could even go celestial Bloodrager with a bloodline familair that heals people. Bard or Skald can also make good use of the Charisma.
What type of character interests you?
Gnome Spirit Guide Heaven's Oracle.
First of all i want to really thank you for all the answers!
What type of character does interest me? Well lets say i don't know for real, i'm asking advice to check this out.
I'm sure i would, since long time, play a necromancer (the one who rises army of undeads), that's an old dream, since i started to play Roleplaying games, but never had a GM allow that; this one will probably allow that, and i'm confident with the fact he could manage it well.
So lets say for now this is the first point in my ideas.
The second one could be a Gnome "Dartagnan-style" XD i've always loved the idea of that one.
Heal isn't a thing for me, i don't like it, and i've done that role in the past, nothing i want to repeat, that's sure.
Swashbuckler and Bloodrager are two classes i've never played.
I played a Gnome Barbarian in the past, and i didn't love it too much, probably due to the size-fact who destroy the fun when you try to grapple an opponent or so on.
And, i forgot, i've always been fascinated by Intelligent Items, so that's another option maybe :D!
If you want an intelligent weapon - the gnome ability scores don't help it much but a bladebound magus could suit you. The gnome FCB for a magus is excellent at least:
Add one of the following to the magus’ list of arcane pool weapon special abilities: allying, conductive, corrosive, corrosive burst, defending, ghost touch, menacing, merciful, mighty cleaving, vicious.
At 6th level they could get flamboyant arcana to help with the d'Artagnan look.
Is such a character viable? I mean is it possible to optimize it a bit to fit is role?
Any other way to get an intelligent item via other class or so?
To make an example, the summoner Eidolon could have the form of an intelligent item or no way?
Sure, a magus doesn't take a lot of optimising to hit things. Suppose you go with Str 10, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 9 (including racials). Take Weapon Finesse as your first feat and Dervish Dance as your 3rd level feat, that gives you basic melee effectiveness. At 5th level you get two more feats - intensify spell assuming you're the standard shocking grasp build and extra arcane pool most likely. Other builds are certainly possible.
Other ways to get an intelligent item - a blade adept arcanist gets a black blade. They're not as good at using it though, it's a bit of a trap option. They do get some use from charisma though. I don't think an eidolon can help you. A 7th level arcane caster with a familiar & the improved familiar feat could get a raktavarna rakshasa which can take the form of an inanimate item. Clockwork familiars are available to tinkerer alchemists, or to anyone from 7th level with a familiar and the improved familiar feat
An ioun wyrd looks like an intelligent item, most ways of getting a familiar will allow it. Some figurines of wondrous power may have intelligence. A migrus from a migrus locker definitely does.
Your initial post said "related in some way". This may mean he doesn't have to be family related, just have a connection. If that interpretation works with your GM, maybe the Gnome was a mentor to someone of another race in Magic School, opening the race up a bit more, assuming you do want to go the Magus route.
The second one could be a Gnome "Dartagnan-style" XD i've always loved the idea of that one.
Take a look at the Mouser archetype of Swashbuckler. That would give you some specials to be able to take advantage of the smaller size. It isn't a requirement, but if the idea of standing under someone and poking up at them amuses you this is the archetype to do that.
Swashbucklers aren't as dependent on strength as most melee classes, so it can be a good fit for a gnome. Pure swashbuckler would work just fine if you don't like that archetype.
If you really want to do Magus, there is a spontaneous caster version of it called the Eldrich Scion. I personally don't like it because it has so low of skill points and limited use of spell combat until 8th level. Others like it because it is a spontaneous caster. You need to play it in a very different way than a normal Magus.
I'd go for the slightly unexpected, and make an arcane bloodrager.
Thanks again guys!
Avr: for the magus idea, i'm loving it, so listing it...bladebound seems exactly what i was thinkin' of.
So Eidolon can't have the form of a weapon or so? I must read more about that class, but i think i would list it, cuz it's interesting!
About the Rakshasa, you said unanimated item, means in that form he can't speak or "act" right?
Jodokai: Yeah some way related, true fact. The background of the previous PC is already written tho; despite this, my character started from level 1, so it's very hard (say if i am wrong on this) for him to be a mentor of someone.. i mean, he could have been a mentor at the end of the adventure, and that will make sense.. but, for how that PC is done, i can't see any sense in someone wanting him as a mentor... i mean he was famous, but he was also a coward.
In any case i could work on something different thanks to this advice, even i prefer stay as a gnome if possible, i mean if that doesn't mean to avoid an optimized character (lemme know your opinion).
BretI: i'll take a look at the mouser for sure, thank you for the link!
Melkiador: is Arcane Bloodrager an archetype?
Take a look at a raktavarna rakshasa on d20pfsrd. It can't take any action while inanimate - even speaking is a free action - but you can observe through its senses at any time.
It's also a good option to pick up via lesser planar binding for those who like a bunch of spies.
Arcane is one of the bloodlines which bloodragers can take.
Thank you avr, i found within your link this Familiar! This one is fascinating me... i mean he eats the souls of dead creatures *-*!
So bloddragers are spontaneous spellcasters, uhm, i don't like very much the idea...
Thank you avr, i found within your link this Familiar! This one is fascinating me... i mean he eats the souls of dead creatures *-*!
So bloddragers are spontaneous spellcasters, uhm, i don't like very much the idea...
Bloodrager is strong..Very strong..Only a handful of spells will be picked. Most will help push your combat skills to the next level. You only get a small portion but access to spell trigger/completion items. I think you would have fun with the class. It is my favorite martial class.
Louise Bishop: Bloodrager seems (to me) a barbarian with spells, probably using Defensive spells or buffs, nothing i may like, i'm more on the Save or Suck spells or conjuration ones.
If you like save or sucks you may prefer the frostbite magus to the shocking grasp type. Not much different, just take rime spell instead of intensified spell and use frostbite instead of shocking grasp. Frigid touch offers some burst damage though less than intensified shocking grasp.
OK, there's no actual saves involved but the ...or Suck part functions just fine.
Avr: What i like of the magus is the black blade, seems really the intelligent item i was looking for.. but, you sacrifice some arcana right? Is that a bad thing, considering i will probably play already a race that doesn't go for the maxed optimized character?
You have to spend one magus arcana to get the black blade; basically the same as spending one on a familiar. Instead of getting Int + 1/2 magus level in your arcane pool, you get Int + 1/3 magus level and your black blade gets a separate pool with its Int + 1. I'm not sure which of these you mean.
Comparing the bladebound to the normal magus for arcane pool assuming 14 Int initially & level ups into Int, +2 headband at level 6 & +4 at level 9,
Level | Base Magus | Bladebound Magus + Black Blade
1 | 2 | 2 + 0 = 2
2 | 3 | 2 + 0 = 2
3 | 3 | 3 + 1 = 4
4 | 4 | 3 + 1 = 4
5 | 4 | 3 + 2 = 5
6 | 6 | 5 + 2 = 7
7 | 6 | 5 + 2 = 7
8 | 8 | 6 + 2 = 8
9 | 9 | 8 + 3 = 11
10 | 10 | 8 + 3 = 11
Except at 2nd level, between the bladebound magus and their black blade they always have as much or more arcane pool than the base magus.
Avr: Nice thank you bro/sis for the explanation! That's what i was trying to figure out, if i had to sacrifice the pool, and seems i don't! Very very cool!
Well for now here's my list:
1) Black Blade Magus
2) Summoner (straight summoner or master summoner i think, if someone can tell me some opinion on would be great!)
3) Swashbuckler
4) Oradin
About debuffers and necromancers, which classes do fit those roles best in term of efficience/flavour?
A magus makes a reasonable single-target debuffer and a terrible necromancer, you'd have to reach high level and use spell blending.
The original summoner is pretty good at area debuffs. It can have an undead-themed eidolon but that's as far as it goes into necromancy. Unchained summoners are worse at area debuffs but still passable and I think don't have an undead-theme option.
On master summoner; excellent at battlefield control by throwing disposable monsters around and a weak eidolon can still be a useful scout or other specialist. The downside is that lots of summons is absolutely horrible to run at the gaming table and I think it'd be worse in play-by-post.
A swashbuckler could maybe go into intimidate for a little debuffing (menacing swordplay helps), or specialise in some combat maneuver. They're not ideal for it though. They don't do necromancy.
An oradin isn't a natural debuffer. Their spellcasting is minor, they don't get bonus feats so combat maneuvers are hard, aside from a charisma focus they have nothing to help intimidate. In PF necromancy is evil unless house-ruled which means paladins are incompatible with it.
Nice explanation! As always.
For debuffing/necromancy seems i would look into other classes, an thoughs?
I'm just looking for any option to choose finally what i want to play :)!
Oh, right. A cleric channelling negative energy with some variant channelling can do area debuffs, their basic spell list has single target debuffs, and they get animate dead as soon or sooner than anyone else. Probably the best.
A wizard with the necromancy arcane school has a different but even more impressive suite of debuffs. They're a spell level later getting animate dead though.
A juju oracle can be the best undead creator. They're OK at debuffs but not up to the other two.
If you just wanted debuffs on the character and not animate dead there are a thousand schemes in PF, you'll need to narrow it down a bit.
Well i don't really know much about the campaign, but i can say it will be homemade and will get our char to 20level (maybe some mythic aswell).
Personally i like the witch (even if i never played one), so if i can get debuffs + hordes of undead, well i'm listing that XD!
The fact i don't like about Ju-ju (if i've understood the class well) it's that he uses good undead, no sense for me. Calling undead is evil? Well no problem, i will do that in any case; i don't need to call good souls or whatever.
Cleric seems already a better option, if you say they're good on debuffs and undeads, that's what i'm looking for.
Summoner with Undead Eidolon, hey cool!
Master summoner ability to throw 1 million creatures in the fight doesn't scare me, i'm pretty sure i can handle having prepared sheets and rolling multiple dices at one time.
The question is, can they summon undeads?
Not well. There's a feat, skeleton summoner. It has a prereq of spell focus (necromancy) which is mostly useless to a summoner, and the ability it gives you to apply the skeleton template to your summons once/day is mostly a downgrade. You'd be paying two feats for the desired flavour with little payback in mechanics.
The advantage the juju oracle gets is in this revelation:
Spirit Vessels (Su): You can channel wendo spirits into lifeless bodies, reanimating them to aid you. When using the animate dead spell, you can control 6 HD worth of undead creatures per caster level rather than 4 HD. In addition, any zombies or juju zombies you create using animate dead, create undead, or similar spells possess maximum hit points.
I think their non-evil undead got revised away some time ago.
It's not impossible for a witch to mess around with undead but they're worse at it than a wizard. Debuffs they have, sure.
Ok, i'm now reading about the Juju Oracle
Craft Juju Fetish (Ex): You can craft juju fetishes as if you possessed the Craft Wondrous Item feat. All juju fetishes you create are treated as being CL +1. If you possess this revelation and Craft Wondrous Item, all juju fetishes you create are treated as being CL +2.
Stupid question:
This means you can create woundrous items?Which revelation do i would pick to build a horde of undeads?
One is the one (Lmao) that you mentioned above.
Oracle is one of that class i never played but i think i may like, and also, seems gnome work good (right?) for that class.
So lets say i finally decided to build my character around that.
I need some help building the character and his progression (here's where i lack the most)
Resume:
Dino Somethingidontknowyettumplefimbl
BP: 20 points
Level: 1
Race: Gnome
Gold: Level 1 Gold
Traits: 2
Class: Oracle
STR 7 after racial mod STR 5
DEX 14 DEX 14
CON 12 CON 14
WIS 10 WIS 10
INT 10 INT 10
CHA 18 CHA 20
Suggestions?
According to this guide the suggestion is:
20 point buy: Str 14, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 17Oracles do have another option here, too, though it’s not one the guide explores. You can instead choose to dump your intelligence score in place of your wisdom score.
FEATS:
1) Improved Initiative3) Extra Revelation
5) Extend Spell
i don't know honestly ^-^
MISTERY: Juju
REVELATION:
1) Spirit Vessels (Su)
2) Undead Servitude (Su)
3) ???
About Curse, which one should i go for? I mean, for roleplaying probably being blind could be really cool, but at what cost?
Ok, spells, a nice jump in the dark for me, since i've been always playing arcane for the most:
#0
Bleed
Create Water
Detect Magic
Light
#1
Cause Fear??
Inflict Light Wounds
Restore Corpse? Sensed?
Which spells do i want to take as a must in the next levels?
Craft Juju Fetish lets you create a particular category of wondrous items only. Juju Fetishes.
Undead Servitude is your other undead army revelation, you've got that already.
5 Str amounts to 'I don't want to wear armor' and 'Strength damage poison? Shadows??? I'moutofhere!'. Be sure you're OK with that. Hard-maxing or completely dumping an ability isn't always a good idea.
With a bonus to charisma and an alternate racial favored class bonus of 'Oracle: Add +1/2 to the oracle’s level for the purpose of determining the effects of the oracle’s curse ability.' gnomes do make good oracles, yes. If you want a curse which won't interfere with you, covetous or legalistic works. If you're used to arcane magic then blackened (& the pyromaniac alternate racial ability) might suit you. If you want something themed to go with your undead then haunted might be right. Others might work for you too, that's not an exhaustive list.
Bleed is a remarkably pointless spell, anything's better. On 1st level spells, Cause Fear is decent at low levels, but Restore Corpse can wait until you can actually animate dead. You might prefer a defensive spell like Shield of Faith or a different attack spell like Barbed Chains.
Obviously if you want undead servants you're going to want the spells which create them. Animate dead, maybe lesser animate dead, create undead. Desecrate will also be useful there.
For later debuffs look at sound burst, silence, blindness/deafness, prayer, vision of hell/aura of doom (these stack well) and hallucinogenic smoke. If you're neutral rather than evil you might find burst of radiance useful. If you get weapon finesse and your GM agrees it applies to touch attacks then there are a bunch of other good options; they do involve being close to the enemy though.
Other spells which you will want to look at include Blessing of Fervor (excellent buff), Hide from Undead (in case you screw up with undead), Shield of Darkness (defensive buff) and Death Ward (in case you screw up with undead, part 2).
Oh ok Juju fetishes!
For stats i'm definitely asking XD i've no idea! I feel bad as you do on dumping!
So which stats should i consider a valid setup?
Haunted seems fitting really well!
Oh ok, some nice spells, going to read those :).
If you can get your total strength to 7-8 then you can wear light armor if you're careful. You may have to drop cha one point to do that.
You might want a different revelation first BTW, maybe Natural Divination. Even lesser animate dead won't be castable until 4th level.
I could do as it follows:
STR 12 -> 10
DEX 14
CON 10 -> 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 17 -> 19
Or
STR 12 -> 10
DEX 12
CON 11 -> 13
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 17 -> 19
Or
STR 12 -> 10
DEX 12
CON 10 -> 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 18 -> 20
Or
STR 12 -> 10
DEX 14
CON 10 -> 12
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 17 -> 19
what do you think fits better?
First or last there, they're the same and of those would be my choice. Tho' the second one should probably read CON 13 -> 15 I'd still prefer to have +2 mod on an active ability and +1 mod on a passive one than vice versa.
Juju Oracle gets Hideous Laughter as a bonus spell, so if you want a nasty spell to specialize in with Magical Lineage and such, that's a pretty good one.
The Dual-Cursed Oracle Archetype is a very interesting choice, since it grants the Misfortune Revelation and Ill Omen as a bonus spell. Ill Omen involves no saving throw, so you can throw Quickened Ill Omen at things as a level 4 spell with Magical Lineage. Badly cursing foes with a swift action is brutally strong.
So the right setup should be:
STR 12 -> 10
DEX 12
CON 13 -> 15
INT 10
WIS 10
CHA 17 -> 19
For feats i'm still wondering what i want to pick
Badbird: thanks for your advice.
Hideous Laughter is a spell which has no connections with necromancy, nor i think fits my character, so even if it's free, isn't something i want to specialize on.
What does this archetype sacrifice? I mean Pro/Cons respect of the original class?
Dual-Cursed loses the extra class skills and the first three bonus spells from their Revelation. They must also take a second Oracle Curse that never improves.
In exchange, they gain three new bonus spells including Ill Omen and Bestow Curse, they gain more Revelation picks (at 5 and 13), and they gain access to two new Revelations (Misfortune being incredibly strong).
Dual-Cursed is, more than anything, about cursing the hell out of a target, no pun intended. Say you've got Magical Lineage: Ill Omen and Quicken Spell at level 8 - you could cast Quickened Ill Omen on a target, then slap it with Bestow Curse and laugh as they have to throw twice for the save and take the lower roll. Then, once the target is stuck with Bestow Curse's "-4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks", their next d20 roll is also roll-twice-take-worse because Ill Omen gimps one more roll per 5 levels. If they somehow succeed on this roll, or if they then make another roll, you can throw Misfortune at them.