Proposed Rule Change for Season 8: Unlimited GM Credits


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3/5

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I Propose that GM character credits become unlimited, so that GMs who'd like to get character credit for GMing a game are always able to do so, no matter what scenario they are asked to run, or plan on running.

I realize this has been brought up before, but I can't recall this ever being shot down by leadership.

Thanks for the time and consideration.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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Why?

Why do GMs need unlimited credit for an adventure?

Why do GMs deserve to get something that players don't get?

And as I am certain there are answers to the above questions, I have one observation that will (likely) be a natural extension to the the answer for the third:

Unlimited replay credit should never be an option. Seeing as it should not be an option for players, it should not be an option for GMs.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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By the time you get to the point that you're re running scenarios often enough for it to matter you really don't need the credit for credit:

I can.. and will! Tackle the black dragon on the snout for each of his points, BUT what makes me agree with him is this:

Some scenarios have very good/powerful boons and you don't want someone putting them on ALL of their character. Thats really the only downside i can see to it.

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Drogon wrote:

Why?

Why do GMs need unlimited credit for an adventure?

-Because they're running instead of playing something they could play

-ANYTHING to get more DMs
-Why not? You can't replay because it clogs the available seats, and gives the players forwarning of the adventure. A DM doing it creates more seats, doesn't clog anything, and if anything frees it up: you're guaranteed the people from last week aren't going to be at this table.

Quote:
Why do GMs deserve to get something that players don't get?

4 bucks per scenario, 4 hours of prep isn't unreasnable, runnings waaay harder than playing...

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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BigNorseWolf wrote:
I can.. and will! Tackle the black dragon on the snout for each of his points...

I've read that you're really just a big teddy bear. I'll accept that tackle! Meaning: I will do nearly anything for GMs, as well. But putting them on a pedestal and lavishing rewards upon them that players will never be allowed to have is not conducive to "fair play." And whining about "fair play" is all that lavishing them with rewards will engender.

And yes, the "boon farming" immediately leapt to my mind as well. Not sure why I didn't point that out. Sometimes I have blinders on...

Sovereign Court 4/5 5/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden

In a not-so-huge scene, it can actually be a bad thing if a GM runs the same scenario many times. Because that makes it much harder to find "virgin" players for anyone else who'd like to GM that scenario too.

There's some advantages to running a scenario multiple times - conserving prep, and practice making perfect. But I think we don't need too strong incentives for re-running things either. I'm quite happy with the status quo; I'll occasionally rerun a scenario especially if pressed for time, but I also run lots of new stuff.

4/5 5/5 * Contributor

I actually made a post about this sort of thing a while back and even got to talk to Tonya about it at PaizoCon. (As a matter of fact, I had a LOT of talks with a lot of very informed people, from Paizo staffers to veteran GMs.)

I think a system that encourages GMs to run scenarios multiple times is a good thing, because cognitively speaking there is a lot of benefit to familiarizing yourself with the content and its something I would like to see in PFS. That having been said, I am also thoroughly convinced that the simple option (let all GMs run anything they want for the rewards listed on the chronicle) is not the best option.

I'm going to try to do a PFS-themed blog post on stuff like this once a month on Guidance, so we'll see what comes of that.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Drogon wrote:


I've read that you're really just a big teddy bear. I'll accept that tackle! Meaning: I will do nearly anything for GMs, as well. But putting them on a pedestal and lavishing rewards upon them that players will never be allowed to have is not conducive to "fair play." And whining about "fair play" is all that lavishing them with rewards will engender.

From a certain point of view it would be letting the DM do the same thing as the player: Get credit for the game they're playing in. There is an often overlooked opportunity cost to DMing: if you're dming then you're not playing. If you are (for some unfathomable reason) running Shocked Quartz of Sharadhoom for the 5th time then chances are pretty good that everyone else that played at those tables got to get credit.

The advantage to DMing is not full prestige, 1 xp, all the lootz, its (full prestige, 1 xp, all the lootz-whatever the players get)

Quote:
And yes, the "boon farming" immediately leapt to my mind as well. Not sure why I didn't point that out. Sometimes I have blinders on...

Blinding dirty trick attack!

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

By the way, I would like to point out that even I (who has a plethora of GMs available on any given day) have a few GMs who won't run a scenario more than once. I'm aware that it is solely because they can't get character credit. And I would really like to change that, as I find that attitude incredibly frustrating. But, like Alexander, I think the simple solution is the wrong solution.

I would, however, like to see a solution. I will happily concede that point.

3/5

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Drogon wrote:

Why?

Why do GMs need unlimited credit for an adventure?

Why do GMs deserve to get something that players don't get?

And as I am certain there are answers to the above questions, I have one observation that will (likely) be a natural extension to the the answer for the third:

Unlimited replay credit should never be an option. Seeing as it should not be an option for players, it should not be an option for GMs.

I respond to this in hopes of not starting a heated argument. I disagree with you here, Drogon, but I don't want to start a fight. So here goes:

"Why?"

"...to get character credit for GMing a game are always able to do so, no matter what scenario they are asked to run, or plan on running."

I propose it so that GMs who want credit can take credit. If all the players at their table get credit, why can't they have credit as well, as a courtesy to them for their work in studying the adventure, and running/creating the game for the players? As a reverse of your own argument, why can't GMs get what their players do?

"Why do GMs need unlimited credit for an adventure?"

They don't NEED it, but it would be nice to have the option, since I don't feel like it would go to far in rewarding and enticing folks to help out in whatever way the local PFS group needs. Suddenly, it doesn't matter one way or another if the GM has ran the adventure before. They still have the option to take all the rewards from running it the first time.

"Why do GMs deserve to get something that players don't get?"
- GM Stars boon sheet
- GM Stars
- GM Star bonus to re-rolls
- Access to all boons that a GM wants on a chronicle, regardless of what the PCs earned
- GenCon GM only boons
- Regional Con GM only boons
- Other GM only prizes (like the GMing coin @ KublaCon in California)

I'm not sure you thought that one out, or are you referring to something more specific.

"Unlimited replay credit should never be an option. Seeing as it should not be an option for players, it should not be an option for GMs."

I agree that unlimited replay is bad, but I see play and GM credits as very different things. GMs help create new tables, run the games, and and are ambassadors for new players. The GMs should have the option to get credit if they want it, as both an enticement, and as further reward for their dedication and work to better PFS.

1/5

there are pros to running a scenario more than once. I think they are obvious to any decent GM. I wouldn't mind being able to run some of the scenarios I like again for credit.

For instance last year I ran the Sharrowsmith trilogy and quite enjoyed them. I would love to run them again and think the rp aspects, and certain mechanical elements, of each would be better after experience with how players reacted to the scenarios and after experiencing the flow of each at the table. I could do this of course but doing it for no credit limits how much effort I really want to put into it when there are new scenarios that need to be scheduled and run.

I wouldn't be in favor of unlimited rerun for GM's for credit to avoid boon farming but I think some solution better than 1 in standard and 1 in core, if that is a thing where you play, gets the best from GM's and the effort expended in prepping scenarios.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

The Fourth Horseman wrote:
I disagree with you here, Drogon, but I don't want to start a fight.

You won't get a fight from me. I understand and respect your reasoning. I only disagree with the proposed fix. As I said, however, I would love to see a fix.

With regards to your list of things GMs get that players don't: They complain about many of those, as well. Adding unlimited credit to the list would rile the masses to a level that would be hard to deal with. Just find another solution.

Scarab Sages 4/5 5/55/55/5 *** Venture-Captain, Australia—NSW—Greater West

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How about you can only get the boons once...but get the exp, prestige and item access on subsequent runs?

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Sandra Wilkinson wrote:

How about you can only get the boons once...but get the exp, prestige and item access on subsequent runs?

Items are often a bigger problem than boons, to be honest.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/5 ** Venture-Lieutenant, Florida—Melbourne

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I have a hard enough time figuring out what characters I'm not going to play as much due to GM credits, I don't really need any more than I am already getting. To me, this seems it would only be useful to GMs with less than 3 stars. Quite frankly, I would rather encourage GMs to run a variety of mods rather than the same one over and over again.

1/5

Make a sheet similar to the Second Prestige sheet and have it list boons that you can't get again if you GM twice. I'm relatively unaware of what crazy boons are out there, but I imagine there's not a lot of boons that they'd need to restrict this way. Thus the document wouldn't be that big, nor grow that fast.

5/5

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Drogon wrote:
Sandra Wilkinson wrote:

How about you can only get the boons once...but get the exp, prestige and item access on subsequent runs?

Items are often a bigger problem than boons, to be honest.

I don't think repeat GM credit is necessary, but if it was implemented I think this would be a decent way to do it. Any GM credit after the first does not grant access to anything, boons or items, but only provides XP, PP, and GP.

Liberty's Edge 5/5

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Starfinder Superscriber

I agree with what BNW and trollbill said above. Even when I was at half the number of tables I am now, I was getting to the point where even though I mostly liked a credit, a part of me was a little sad that it meant I would get to play that character a bit less. I want to play my characters; I really don't need xp credit for every scenario I run. I GM because I enjoy it, and I like GMing things more than once because due to practice I think I get better at it.

Honestly, once I was past about 50 tables, I started watching my table count (so that I can get GM stars) more than the xp my characters got. A shallow and meaningless motivation, I know :) But, still, it's kinda fun. I suspect once I'm at five stars (I predict it happens before or at next PaizoCon), I'll pay less attention to that. But I still enjoy GMing. (Of course, maybe by then I'll start to hyperfocus on building up my Starfinder Corps GM stars....)

I may have a warped perspective because where I am, we don't have a problem getting GMs. When a game is posted on the warhorn, usually the GM slots fill up faster than the player slots. Yes, sometimes still the VC calls out for a GM to fill in, but even then usually he gets a response very fast. So I don't really see a need for more rewards for GMs; I perceive there being enough, and I don't want it myself.

If we did want more of a reward than table-count-for-stars for GMs replaying scenarios, how about one free-floating PP that can be applied to any character for each scenario GMed in which the GM does not get character credit?

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

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I mostly agree with everyone here, some sort of credit would be nice but free unlimited replay is bad. Spitballing some ideas:
- Let GM replay stars apply to getting GM credit for a scenario?
- Let GMs re-reunning scenarios mark "replay" on a chronicle and apply that chronicle as a 1 XP, 2 PP, 500 gp, no items/no boons chronicle to a first-level character? (how many people like level 1 anyway?)
- Let GMs clearly mark "replay" on a chronicle which counts as a no-XP, no-PP, no-Gold/items/boons chronicle to a character for faction credit? (those things are a pain to fill up anyway)
- Add one-line GM boons to each chronicle that add something small but fun that increases with GM credit? Ex: "GM reward: check one box every time you GM this scenario. For every box checked, this character receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge: Engineering checks related to bridges."

Paizo Employee 4/5 Pathfinder Society Lead Developer

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Terminalmancer wrote:
- Add one-line GM boons to each chronicle that add something small but fun that increases with GM credit? Ex: "GM reward: check one box every time you GM this scenario. For every box checked, this character receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge: Engineering checks related to bridges."

That's interesting!

3/5

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RE: Alternate Solution:

Create a sheet similar to the format of the season-specific faction sheets, but aimed at GMs.

Make the "better" options require running a (non-evergreen?) scenario a second time (or more, maybe).

Example:

Each time a game you have GM'd is reported, check one of the below boxes.

<10 boxes>

The below boxes may only be completed once the 10 boxes above have been completed.

Each time you've GM'd a scenario a second time, check one of the below boxes.
<5 boxes>

Boon unlocked - Minor boon, thematic with "familiarity" (ex. opens a familiar option that is not normally available, but has been made available in the past as part of a chronicle, such as a faerie dragon)

Each time you've GM'd a scenario a third time, check one of the below boxes.
<4 boxes>

Boon Unlocked - Moderate boon, thematic with "expertise" (ex. increases bonus from masterwork tools for the character it is applied to, or results of take 10 are 13 and take 20 are 22, etc.)

Each time you've GM'd a scenario a fourth time, check one of the below boxes.
<3 boxes>

Boon Unlocked - Major Boon, thematic with "specialist" (ex. grants either skill specialization or weapon specialization with a specific skill or weapon ; or allows proficiency with a specific armor, shield or weapon type ; or allows +1 DC to a specific spell)

Each time you've GM'd a scenario a fifth time, check one of the below boxes.
<2 boxes>

Boon Unlocked - thematic with "viewed by ten pairs of eyes" (ex. Warning of the Decimvirate ... 3 boxes ... you may elect to check a box at any time to remove the flat-footed condition from the character this boon is applied to, if applied at the beginning of the surprise round you may act in the surprise round even if you are not normally able to do so. Once all three boxes have been checked you may roll twice and take the better result on one initiative check per game.)

Each time you've GM'd a scenario a sixth time, check one of the below boxes.
<1 box>

Boon Unlocked - Major Boon - thematic with "Glory is its own Reward" (as there is no credit towards GM stars after running a scenario a 6th time) ... (ex. may elect to begin a character at 3rd level with static amount of gold / prestige - similar to how the playtest for Occult adventures worked in creating a protégé character)

Sheet Completion - Explored, Reported, Cooperated!
Any time you apply your GM stars as a player, such as for a shirt re-roll, increase the total bonus by 2. If applied to a Day Job check, the minimum result of that check cannot be less than if you took 10 on the day-job check.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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Terminalmancer wrote:

I mostly agree with everyone here, some sort of credit would be nice but free unlimited replay is bad. Spitballing some ideas:

- Let GM replay stars apply to getting GM credit for a scenario?
- Let GMs re-reunning scenarios mark "replay" on a chronicle and apply that chronicle as a 1 XP, 2 PP, 500 gp, no items/no boons chronicle to a first-level character? (how many people like level 1 anyway?)
- Let GMs clearly mark "replay" on a chronicle which counts as a no-XP, no-PP, no-Gold/items/boons chronicle to a character for faction credit? (those things are a pain to fill up anyway)
- Add one-line GM boons to each chronicle that add something small but fun that increases with GM credit? Ex: "GM reward: check one box every time you GM this scenario. For every box checked, this character receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge: Engineering checks related to bridges."

Why am I twitching every time I start reading this post?

O.o

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

LOVE the box-checking ideas. Those are sweet. Needs to be a pretty good boon to get the guys I know of to GM a scenario more than once, though. Just so you know...

5/5 5/55/55/5

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Drogon wrote:


Why am I twitching every time I start reading this post?

O.o

Because you keep replaying it over and over in your mind

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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It's my very own Tripledent Gum commercial...

4/5 *

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I love the "GM check box" idea - a benefit without giving away the farm.

Another option would be to allow multiple credit on a wider range of scenarios than just the evergreens. I have less issue with someone advancing through the low levels than I do with a GM getting the high-tier boons and unique items on all their characters when other players are limited to one. Maybe you could get credit for GMing a Tier 1-5 scenario twice or three times?

The one concern I have beside boon-farming is that people shouldn't be drawn to GMing solely because of the reward. We've all been at that table where the GM hasn't prepped at all and is just reading the scenario and rolling dice... we don't want to incentivize that as the only way to get "all the things".

2/5 5/5 *

I'd actually like to see more rewards for GMs that don't include XP/GP/PP. We all like to get recognition and credit (in some way) for taking the time to prepare and run a scenario, but sometimes you don't really want to have credit blobs that have no actual character development behind them.

Shadow Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area North & East

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There's plenty of scenarios out there that I'd be happy to re-GM for just gold and xp without boons or item access.

But that wouldn't really be fair to players, because some GM's might go to only scheduling games that don't have boons anyways. And that's not cool.

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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rknop wrote:
a part of me was a little sad that it meant I would get to play that character a bit less. I want to play my characters; I really don't need xp credit for every scenario I run. I GM because I enjoy it, and I like GMing things more than once because due to practice I think I get better at it.

Huh, so this is what an ephiphany feels like?

I'll be hitting 80 tables next Saturday(after running - and seeing the death of - far too many fellnight spriggans for comfort) and while two years ago I'd be elated to credit-boost one of tier 6-7 characters to tier 7-8 now it kinda rings hollow and I've got 5 characters on that tier anyway and I want to play them!

I just run scenarios because fun things are fun. Credit is secondary.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

I don't mind GMing for no credit on replays, though I'd love to be able to apply an evergreen at second level more than once to different characters as a GM. I don't think that would be too game-breaking!

I've recently been GMing more than I'm playing, and have been slow-tracking my GM credits so that my characters don't advance too much.

Question to all of you: If I choose not to apply a chronicle to a character when I first GM it, do I lose the right to apply it to a later character when I GM the scenario a second time? Someone told me that they thought it might be the case, but I cannot imagine that PFS would be that punitive to their GMs.

Hmm

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

Drogon wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:

I mostly agree with everyone here, some sort of credit would be nice but free unlimited replay is bad. Spitballing some ideas:

- Let GM replay stars apply to getting GM credit for a scenario?
- Let GMs re-reunning scenarios mark "replay" on a chronicle and apply that chronicle as a 1 XP, 2 PP, 500 gp, no items/no boons chronicle to a first-level character? (how many people like level 1 anyway?)
- Let GMs clearly mark "replay" on a chronicle which counts as a no-XP, no-PP, no-Gold/items/boons chronicle to a character for faction credit? (those things are a pain to fill up anyway)
- Add one-line GM boons to each chronicle that add something small but fun that increases with GM credit? Ex: "GM reward: check one box every time you GM this scenario. For every box checked, this character receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge: Engineering checks related to bridges."

Why am I twitching every time I start reading this post?

O.o

One more reply and you'll have replied as much as I've replayed!

Darn it, now it's two more replies.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Hmm wrote:

Question to all of you: If I choose not to apply a chronicle to a character when I first GM it, do I lose the right to apply it to a later character when I GM the scenario a second time? Someone told me that they thought it might be the case, but I cannot imagine that PFS would be that punitive to their GMs.

Hmm

No, you don't lose that right.

At least, I never have. I can't count how many scenarios I've run more than once. But I always know which ones I haven't taken credit for, and every now and then I'll pick one and apply it on my latest run. The system doesn't explode, or flag my account, or any other such thing. So I'm pretty sure it's okay to do so.

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

Terminalmancer wrote:
Drogon wrote:
Terminalmancer wrote:

I mostly agree with everyone here, some sort of credit would be nice but free unlimited replay is bad. Spitballing some ideas:

- Let GM replay stars apply to getting GM credit for a scenario?
- Let GMs re-reunning scenarios mark "replay" on a chronicle and apply that chronicle as a 1 XP, 2 PP, 500 gp, no items/no boons chronicle to a first-level character? (how many people like level 1 anyway?)
- Let GMs clearly mark "replay" on a chronicle which counts as a no-XP, no-PP, no-Gold/items/boons chronicle to a character for faction credit? (those things are a pain to fill up anyway)
- Add one-line GM boons to each chronicle that add something small but fun that increases with GM credit? Ex: "GM reward: check one box every time you GM this scenario. For every box checked, this character receives a +1 bonus on Knowledge: Engineering checks related to bridges."

Why am I twitching every time I start reading this post?

O.o

One more reply and you'll have replied as much as I've replayed!

Darn it, now it's two more replies.

"TripleDent GUM

Will make you smile..."

GAH!

Silver Crusade 4/5 Venture-Captain, Pennsylvania—Pittsburgh

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Muser wrote:
rknop wrote:
a part of me was a little sad that it meant I would get to play that character a bit less. I want to play my characters; I really don't need xp credit for every scenario I run. I GM because I enjoy it, and I like GMing things more than once because due to practice I think I get better at it.

Huh, so this is what an ephiphany feels like?

I'll be hitting 80 tables next Saturday(after running - and seeing the death of - far too many fellnight spriggans for comfort) and while two years ago I'd be elated to credit-boost one of tier 6-7 characters to tier 7-8 now it kinda rings hollow and I've got 5 characters on that tier anyway and I want to play them!

I just run scenarios because fun things are fun. Credit is secondary.

I love low-level GM credit and hate high-level GM credit. The only redeeming aspect of high-level GM credit is that, since we have so few high-level scenarios, at least it takes us twice as long to run out of them.

Silver Crusade 5/5 5/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Germany—Bavaria

Hmm wrote:

I don't mind GMing for no credit on replays, though I'd love to be able to apply an evergreen at second level more than once to different characters as a GM. I don't think that would be too game-breaking!

I've recently been GMing more than I'm playing, and have been slow-tracking my GM credits so that my characters don't advance too much.

Question to all of you: If I choose not to apply a chronicle to a character when I first GM it, do I lose the right to apply it to a later character when I GM the scenario a second time? Someone told me that they thought it might be the case, but I cannot imagine that PFS would be that punitive to their GMs.

Hmm

Regarding your question, you are correct if a GM chooses not to take GM credit the first time, he can take it after he has run it the second time.

---

Regarding the issue at hand, I worry quite a bit that this would lead to conflicts between GMs who gets to run a certain scenario.

I have come to the personal conclusion that running a scenario can be a very pleasurable experience, and this could prevent GMs from running scenarios, if other GMs farm them for benefits.

5/5 5/55/55/5

Terminalmancer wrote:


I love low-level GM credit and hate high-level GM credit. The only redeeming aspect of high-level GM credit is that, since we have so few high-level scenarios, at least it takes us twice as long to run out of them.

I use it to get a character through level 6 (since there are so few scenarios there) or if no one is standing at that precipice, throw it on a first level character and start at 2

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

There is a set of scenarios in season four where I had people fighting over who got to GM those. I agree that unlimited GM replay there would be unbalancing.

Hmm

Shadow Lodge 4/5

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I'm fine with the unlimited gm credit thing as long as the following aren't available:

Cultist's Kiss
Refuge of Time
Feast of Sigils
Cult of the Ebon Destroyers
The Merchant's Wake

Sovereign Court 5/5 Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

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Muser wrote:

I'm fine with the unlimited gm credit thing as long as the following aren't available:

Cultist's Kiss
Refuge of Time
Feast of Sigils
Cult of the Ebon Destroyers
The Merchant's Wake

Eyes of the Ten Pt IV

Quest for Perfection Pt III
Captive in Crystal (not relevant starting August, but still...)
All for Immortality Pt 1 (and probably part 3)
Race for the Runecarved Key
...

There are a lot of these kinds of things. Navigating the maze of "what can be allowed, and what can't" is too much to ask. Someone will take credit when they shouldn't. Much easier to have a blanket "yes" or "no" rule in place.

Pretty sure it's obvious that I vote "no."

Go with the check-box card idea.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

Muser wrote:

I'm fine with the unlimited gm credit thing as long as the following aren't available:

Cultist's Kiss
Refuge of Time
Feast of Sigils
Cult of the Ebon Destroyers
The Merchant's Wake

Why look... Those were the ones I'd mentioned earlier. Odd duck that I am, I GMed some of those without taking the boons. My dark archive character is good aligned, and I could not see her taking them. Those boons are fun but definitely would imbalance things if there were replays allowed.

Hmm

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Those things seriously should've had a time limit. I'm glad that they exist though since they set a precedent for how good a boon can be and between "get an extra feat!" and "+1 on Diplo checks with Western Katapeshi gnolls..." we've started to find some balance.

4/5

Muser wrote:
Those things seriously should've had a time limit. I'm glad that they exist though since they set a precedent for how good a boon can be and between "get an extra feat!" and "+1 on Diplo checks with Western Katapeshi gnolls..." we've started to find some balance.

I seem to remember one of them having a 1 year time limit from your chronicle date. I agree that some of the others should as well.

Liberty's Edge 4/5

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What do I get for GMing a scenario for the first time? 1XP, 2PP, some GP, maybe a boon and no fear of a death chronicle. What do the players get? Maybe 1XP, 2PP, some GP, a boon or a condition (or two) to be removed, run by someone who maybe has a feel for how the story should flow in the time allowed.

What do I get for GMing a scenario for no credit? A tick towards my next star. woohoo. What do the players get? same as above, except story that flows more smoothly, better mission specific rules knowledge (chase rules of the month anyone?) and maybe time left for a satisfying conclusion.

If unlimited replay boons are a problem, then don't give them out. Rerun a scenario? You get everything except boons you have already applied to any other character. Add the clause to the Season 8 Player Guide to make it RAW. All I want is 1XP, some GP and a tick towards my next star (WOOHOO!), you can keep the Fame, boons and reminders of stuff I might want to buy.

Dark Archive 4/5 5/5 ****

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Simply said, I think that this is a Bad Idea, for most of the reasons stated above.

The current rules are simple, and allow a reward that previous organized play campaigns did not have. More than what is currently allowed could be problematic, though I think the solution of the checkboxes referred to here would be kind of neat.

4/5

RealAlchemy wrote:
Muser wrote:
Those things seriously should've had a time limit. I'm glad that they exist though since they set a precedent for how good a boon can be and between "get an extra feat!" and "+1 on Diplo checks with Western Katapeshi gnolls..." we've started to find some balance.
I seem to remember one of them having a 1 year time limit from your chronicle date. I agree that some of the others should as well.

There is one with a one year time limit, but it was not listed above.

And my reward for GM'ing is much more about the players having fun than getting a chronicle.

And I have ran modules multiple times, and never thought about not getting a reward for the second or third time I ran a module.

Grand Lodge 4/5 5/55/55/55/5 **** Venture-Captain, Minnesota

I love the idea of the checkboxes.

Hmm

Shadow Lodge 4/5

Mulgar wrote:
RealAlchemy wrote:
Muser wrote:
Those things seriously should've had a time limit. I'm glad that they exist though since they set a precedent for how good a boon can be and between "get an extra feat!" and "+1 on Diplo checks with Western Katapeshi gnolls..." we've started to find some balance.
I seem to remember one of them having a 1 year time limit from your chronicle date. I agree that some of the others should as well.

There is one with a one year time limit, but it was not listed above.

Nah, it's there. What a feast!

edit: I can already feel some people squirm and yes, I've invoked some spoilers here. Sorry! It's just that it gets harder to talk examples the less transparent we make them.

Silver Crusade 5/5

3 people marked this as a favorite.
Muser wrote:
Mulgar wrote:
RealAlchemy wrote:
Muser wrote:
Those things seriously should've had a time limit. I'm glad that they exist though since they set a precedent for how good a boon can be and between "get an extra feat!" and "+1 on Diplo checks with Western Katapeshi gnolls..." we've started to find some balance.
I seem to remember one of them having a 1 year time limit from your chronicle date. I agree that some of the others should as well.

There is one with a one year time limit, but it was not listed above.

Nah, it's there. What a feast!

edit: I can already feel some people squirm and yes, I've invoked some spoilers here. Sorry! It's just that it gets harder to talk examples the less transparent we make them.

*Kicks down door.*

Spoiler Police, FREEZE!

seriously though no biggie, that cookie has already crumbled

3/5

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Thought I throw my two cents in here:

I'm a VA for one of the several stores in the Phoenix Valley. I generally don't run a scenario twice, but that is only because I schedule what scenarios are ran at the store I'm in charge of, and if I haven't ran it yet, then most of my player base hasn't played it yet. I have found that I am GMing far more often than I get to play.

There are, however, times that I do run a scenario more than once. For instance, sometimes I GM something at another store to help out and to make sure the table goes off. Or for instance, I recently scheduled Shades of Ice parts 1 thru 3 at my store. I ran all 3 at a different store a couple years back when I first started GMing (and was not a VA). It'd be nice to get credit again - but it isn't going to prevent me running it my store so my playerbase has a chance to play it.

There is one time of year where I do consistently re-run scenarios: Phoenix Comicon. Our VC sets it up so other than the special, you are usually running the same scenario 2 or 3 times. First, you don't have to worry about prepping a different scenario each day. Second, most of the scenarios scheduled are primarily for attracting new players, meaning tier 1-2 and 1-5 scenarios. Yes we do schedule some higher level scenarios for our veterans, but that's only a small fraction of what we schedule.

Pros/Cons of this: You don't get multiple credit (other than multiple table credit), but it's easier this way in my opinion. Another con is that we might be losing out on some people volunteering for the con because they can't get GM credit more than once - it is offset a little in the fact that as long as you GM 3 sessions over the 4 day con, you get 2 full event passes to PCC.

Anyway, I'm in favor of unlimited limited GM credit. By that I mean, you can get a GM chronicle an unlimited number times, but it is limited in the boons, where you can own get a boon once via GM credit. Now that's per boon - meaning if a chronicle has something like 'Boon (Liberty's Edge)', 'Other Boon (The Exchange)', and 'Third General Boon any faction can earn', then you could GM it once and apply to a Liberty's Edge character, but if you GMed it again, you couldn't get the Liberty's Edge boon, but you could get the Exchange boon.

You could take this a step further and limit it to also unique items that are on chronicles, but limit it to when the item is purchased. For example, if I run a scenario and apply it to my -1, and the chronicle has a unique item, and then I run it again on my -2, and I buy the unique item on my -2, then I need to cross off the item on my -1 chronicle as well.

Another limit past the unique items could also be Limit X items. For instance, a scenario I recently got to play had some +1 holy arrows (Limit 3 or 4 - I'd have to look at the Chronicle to be sure). Make items like that be global GM Limit X. Meaning it doesn't matter how many times I've GMed, I can only buy 4x +1 holy arrows across all characters that have GM credit for that scenario (and I can buy an additional 4x +1 holy arrows on the character that actually played the scenario).

Of course this would rely on the honor system as I don't see a way to really enforce that. Sorry if I'm rambling. Just my 2 cents on it.

Scarab Sages 5/5 5/5 *** Venture-Captain, Netherlands

Having GM stars recharge without a boon and then let GM use them to get a second GM chronicle could work I think.

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