Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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ruling that an immediate action cannot be used after the target of an attack is declared is going totally modify the way this Domain power works... after all "As an immediate action, you can attempt to thwart a melee or ranged attack that targets you..." seems to indicate that the cleric can use the power AFTER the target is chosen...
Effects that require attack rolls function differently than things that don't.
Effects that require attack rolls (such as attacks) have a target, then a roll to decide if the effect applies. This allows for an immediate action to alter circumstances.
Effects that have "target(s)" but not attack rolls happen immediately upon targeting. This does not allow an immediate action to interrupt.
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ok, now we are venturing into areas that will result in really odd effects.
I have more than one Cleric with the sub-domain of Love.
** spoiler omitted **ruling that an immediate action cannot be used after the target of an attack is declared is going totally modify the way this Domain power works... after all "As an immediate action, you can attempt to thwart a melee or ranged attack that targets you..." seems to indicate that the cleric can use the power AFTER the target is chosen...
Nobody argued this position. The Casting a Spell rules don't really matter when someone isn't casting a spell.
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Well hopefully some sort of rules based logic for your position appears to help give credit to it. I think most people will be referencing the Casting Time section now for decisions regarding this spell.Obviously it isn't as clear cut as you claim.I think it is pretty clear cut the effect has happened or it hasn't happened. If it hasn't happened the target hasn't been chosen. If it did happen then proceed with the "Effect" section of the spell.
There isn't much support for time during the effect besides dramatic storytelling. Which is pretty much to say none as far as the rules are concerned.
Immediate action can happen at any time. That seems clear to me, but I'm willing to agree that others may feel differently.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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Immediate action can happen at any time. That seems clear to me, but I'm willing to agree that others may feel differently.Well hopefully some sort of rules based logic for your position appears to help give credit to it. I think most people will be referencing the Casting Time section now for decisions regarding this spell.Obviously it isn't as clear cut as you claim.I think it is pretty clear cut the effect has happened or it hasn't happened. If it hasn't happened the target hasn't been chosen. If it did happen then proceed with the "Effect" section of the spell.
There isn't much support for time during the effect besides dramatic storytelling. Which is pretty much to say none as far as the rules are concerned.
I think everyone agrees that immediate actions can happen at any time. People do disagree about what things take time (and thus offer an opportunity to use an immediate action).
Immediate actions can happen at any time. It follows that, if there is no time, immediate actions cannot happen.
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Immediate actions can happen at any time. It follows that, if there is no time, immediate actions cannot happen.+1
My view also.
There are just too many "after hit", "when targeted", to suggest it's not intended to work after targeted/hit.
More or less my feeling.
It really nerds the spell into uselessness if it doesn't act as an interrupt after target has been chosen.
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Immediate actions can happen at any time. It follows that, if there is no time, immediate actions cannot happen.+1
My view also.
There are just too many "after hit", "when targeted", to suggest it's not intended to work after targeted/hit.More or less my feeling.
It really nerds the spell into uselessness if it doesn't act as an interrupt after target has been chosen.
It certainly nerfs its purpose of protecting against cave ins.
It's dome nature has nearly gotten me at least once.
I was flying when the contingency kicked in. Yeah it kept the second aoe detonated above me from taking 80 points from my prot vs fire but the summoned dire critters nearly got me from below.
Knowing how it works I'd say things like black tentacles works just awesome on or rather under it
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Black Tentacles is a spread, it goes round corners but it doesn't go through walls. I wouldn't have tentacles appear on the other side of a dungeon wall, I wouldn't have them appear inside an EFS, both block line of effect.
What about the evocation spell that turned the ground to red holt molten magma?
Figured had issues because I was flying.
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way too many ban requests going on lately
Are you requesting a ban on ban requests?
Yes.
It's getting ridiculous, even by internet standards. We're making paladin and alignment threads seem almost reasonable.I'm sure we all have a list of a dozen or so things we'd rather not see in PFS, but the reality is this is a witch hunt for a spell which came from the 5th player companion ever published almost 7 years ago that has been on the available resources list as long as I can find reference to the book it came from. It hasn't broken PFS up until now and I really don't want to keep wading through these stupid "please ban" threads which continue to damage my opinion of the PFS volunteers and question my support for the campaign.
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As Carla just mentioned, EFS has offensive potential too.
It has a 5' radius, so you can put it around an adjacent opponent & teleport out. No save, no SR.
With team coordination, you could pull this on almost any medium enemy (or smaller) w/ few problems.
I've heard of at least one PC built around doing this.It's at minimum a 3rd level effect w/ a +5 metamagic, but at 4th.
(Is it me or do the softcovers need more vetting before release?)
It's a 5 foot radius but it is centered on you. Thus it would not necessarily trap anything in an adjacent square as it is only partially in that square. And even if the GM were to rule they can be be trapped, they should get a reflex. For the same reason a reflex save is given to Wall Of Stone.
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Wave Shield is a spell that is similarly activated as an immediate action. It provides fire resistance. It seems like it should be able to be cast after a fireball. If you can't cast it once the enemy wizard starts casting their spell, or after it's been targeted, then that aspect of Wave Shield would seem pretty pointless.
So basically, we should ban anything that lets casters get out of a certain doom situation for them?
So going with this theme, the next items to be banned should be Boots of Escape. And the Freedom of Movement spell. You know the one thing that will save a caster's butt when he's grabbed by a monster with a CMD in the upper 40's or 50's... After all the monster isn't going to get any benefit from this?
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Black Tentacles is a spread, it goes round corners but it doesn't go through walls. I wouldn't have tentacles appear on the other side of a dungeon wall, I wouldn't have them appear inside an EFS, both block line of effect.
Ah, but that is only if the ground is level enough that the seal is water tight. If it is not there is no reason why a black tentacles or cloud kill can not seep in under the cracks.
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Immediate actions can happen at any time. It follows that, if there is no time, immediate actions cannot happen.+1
My view also.
There are just too many "after hit", "when targeted", to suggest it's not intended to work after targeted/hit.More or less my feeling.
It really nerds the spell into uselessness if it doesn't act as an interrupt after target has been chosen.
I have no problem with the spell interrupting the landing of a spell cast. But I do want to remind you that you may not know you are targeted until you are hit. Most spells do not give an outward appearance to show you will be the recipient of its affects. Which also cuts down on EFS's power. Which is a good thing.
Fireball has a pea-sized thing flying in your generally direction, you can react to that. But Phantasmal Killer and Black Tentacles do not have such niceties.
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The minimum size of an aperture to permit line of effect is 1 square foot.Black Tentacles is a spread, it goes round corners but it doesn't go through walls. I wouldn't have tentacles appear on the other side of a dungeon wall, I wouldn't have them appear inside an EFS, both block line of effect.Ah, but that is only if the ground is level enough that the seal is water tight. If it is not there is no reason why a black tentacles or cloud kill can not seep in under the cracks.
Mind sharing where you found that rule?
Then again, that wouldn't stop cloud kill or Black Tentacles.
Spread rules
"Spread
Some effects, notably clouds and fogs, spread out from a point of origin, which must be a grid intersection. The effect can extend around corners and into areas that you can't see. Figure distance by actual distance traveled, taking into account turns the spell effect takes. When determining distance for spread effects, count around walls, not through them. As with movement, do not trace diagonals across corners. You must designate the point of origin for such an effect, but you need not have line of effect (see below) to all portions of the effect."
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Core Rulebook Magic Chapter under Aiming a Spell and Line of Effect
Edit: you needn't have loe to all parts of the Spread, but you need loe to the center and the parts need a clear path. So if you center your tentacles outside of a dome placed on level ground, I don't think you'd be able to declare the spread would reach inside as there wouldn't be a path.
Of course not. That is why I said "Ah, but that is only if the ground is level enough that the seal is water tight. If it is not there is no reason why a black tentacles or cloud kill can not seep in under the cracks."
As in, if it is not level enough for a water tight seal, a spread could get in.
So if you are adventuring anywhere the ground is less than fairly level then you are still open to certain spreads. I don't imagine a fireball would work, applying logic instead of pure RAW, but any spread effect that hugged the ground should have no issues in that case.
And cloud kill specifically would get through as the spell reads... "Because the vapors are heavier than air, they sink to the lowest level of the land, even pouring down den or sinkhole openings. It cannot penetrate liquids, nor can it be cast underwater."
Interestingly enough, if the ground is particularly patchy, such as any difficult terrain, you could throw a fireball under the lip of the dome.
"If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely."
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It's a 5 foot radius but it is centered on you. Thus it would not necessarily trap anything in an adjacent square as it is only partially in that square. And even if the GM were to rule they can be be trapped, they should get a reflex. For the same reason a reflex save is given to Wall Of Stone.As Carla just mentioned, EFS has offensive potential too.
It has a 5' radius, so you can put it around an adjacent opponent & teleport out. No save, no SR.
With team coordination, you could pull this on almost any medium enemy (or smaller) w/ few problems.
I've heard of at least one PC built around doing this.It's at minimum a 3rd level effect w/ a +5 metamagic, but at 4th.
(Is it me or do the softcovers need more vetting before release?)
Oh, and one more thing . Since the spell works like a wall of force, they only need to be taller than about 2-3 feet to prevent you from casting... "The wall must be continuous and unbroken when formed. If its surface is broken by any object or creature, the spell fails."
This conceivably would make the spell unusable when adjacent to a creature who you were in combat with or did not want to move out of the way so your spell can take effect.
In fact, since the effect is only 5 feet tall, you would need to stoop to make the dome touch the ground if you were taller than 5 feet.
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Expect table variation
That might as well be the tag line to PFS.
"Come play PFS! Expect table variation."But if it is a real rule and it helps the GM get around a spell they find pesky? I think they'd go for it.
Why ignore a rule to buff a spell that doesn't need buffing?
If the effect can go under a door it could conceivably go under the space below an unsealed dome. Gaseous form would work here. Though there is not really enough room in the dome for two combatants who are not squeezing. But gaseous form and SLAs would work.
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It's getting ridiculous, even by internet standards. We're making paladin and alignment threads seem almost reasonable.
I personally agree with John's statements, Emergency Force Sphere is one of the rare abilities which is easily abusable by the PCs, but provides little to no benefit to NPCs. It allows Wizards, Sorcerers, and Arcanists a "get out of jail free card" which allows them to completely ignore any defensive weakness they may have. Under ideal conditions, where it requires a standard to dismiss or another 4th level spell to escape, the spell is powerful, but not gamebreaking. However, when combined with the...
Paladin class levels are one of the rare class levels which are easily abusable by the PCs, but provides little to no benefit to NPCs (since they tend to be neutral or evil aligned). It allows Paladins a "get out of jail free card" which allows them to completely ignore their defences as long as they have a high charisma score. Divine grace often gives them such high saving throw bonuses that they pass on any roll higher than a 1, and when they smite they almost never miss and are practically impossible to hit as well, even by touch attacks. In PFS where atonements are easily available and GMs are limited in their capacities to censure infringements that accrue over multiple scenarios, the downsides become negligible, while the upsides remain as strong as ever.
For these reasons, I would like to propose the removal of Emergency Force Sphere paladins from the Additional Resources list.
#tongue-in-cheek #WhoWantsToDoOneForColourSpray/Fly/teleportation-subschool?
RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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As a GM, and as a player, I dislike this spell. It feels like cheating in Pathfinder. Stupid EFS!!
The cases where someone uses it to block line of effect for targets not within the radius of the dome is somewhat troubling and sounds obnoxious.
But otherwise, this is a 4th level spell (there are a great deal of other useful spells at that slot), has a hemispheric shape centered on the caster, cannot be reoriented to be below the caster (so limited use for folks in the air), and still consumes an action from the caster to get out of (even if its a swift action teleport, its still an action). Ultimately, its a defensive spell, and using it to negate effects until they get out of it doesn't seem so bad. There's several other players to interact with, yes?
It's rather useful in higher level play (inb4 "who cares about higher level play").
A save or suck shuts down encounters better than this spell does.
I think we should leave it in, but for the folks using it beyond its "obvious" applications to interfere with encounters in a great capacity, it might be good to remind them that "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should" and that the GM is also trying to have fun. Ideally, I think it could be rebalanced by increasing the spell level, but I understand the difficulty of errata for splatbooks.
This is a very well presented argument that actually makes me less upset at the existence of EFS. I think Acedio is spot on with his summation and his comments about folks needing reminders about keeping the fun alive at your table. That said, I still won't be taking this spell with any of my characters.
And regarding those high level encounters--antilife shell is a hemisphere that shuts melee down just as hard. Fortunately at our last table, my druid realized that his buddy the UNDERTAKER doesn't care about that garbage when he's burrowing up from below.
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As a GM, and as a player, I dislike this spell. It feels like cheating in Pathfinder. Stupid EFS!!
The cases where someone uses it to block line of effect for targets not within the radius of the dome is somewhat troubling and sounds obnoxious.
But otherwise, this is a 4th level spell (there are a great deal of other useful spells at that slot), has a hemispheric shape centered on the caster, cannot be reoriented to be below the caster (so limited use for folks in the air), and still consumes an action from the caster to get out of (even if its a swift action teleport, its still an action). Ultimately, its a defensive spell, and using it to negate effects until they get out of it doesn't seem so bad. There's several other players to interact with, yes?
It's rather useful in higher level play (inb4 "who cares about higher level play").
A save or suck shuts down encounters better than this spell does.
I think we should leave it in, but for the folks using it beyond its "obvious" applications to interfere with encounters in a great capacity, it might be good to remind them that "just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should" and that the GM is also trying to have fun. Ideally, I think it could be rebalanced by increasing the spell level, but I understand the difficulty of errata for splatbooks.
This is a very well presented argument that actually makes me less upset at the existence of EFS. I think Acedio is spot on with his summation and his comments about folks needing reminders about keeping the fun alive at your table. That said, I still won't be taking this spell with any of my characters.
And regarding those high level encounters--antilife shell is a hemisphere that shuts melee down just as hard. Fortunately at our last table, my druid realized that his buddy the...
On the assumption that EFS works both only on the ground, where it can trap you, and also is always in the exact same orientation of up, I don't have a problem with the spell.
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Had some butterscotch cookies. Back in a calmer mindset. Read through the posts in the thread again.
I do see that immediate actions have been around for so long and have been so widely interpreted that it is difficult to make a ruling about it now, and especially for PFS.
But if the problems with EFS are some specific uses of it, then a good way to keep both camps happy might be to make a specific ruling for EFS in PFS (had to check those letters in those acronyms). Would all sides be happy if it was ruled that EFS:
a. (cannot be cast in the time after a spell has been cast and before a spell takes effect) or (cannot be cast in response to conditions that the caster cannot perceive); and
b. cannot be cast after an attack roll has been made; and
c. references the "bottom edge of the dome" and hence is clearly intended to be an upright dome with the rounded-side facing the sky.
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As for interaction with the teleportation subschool (which I still think is overpowered, but I won't start a crusade over it), GMs please remember that if a spell-like or supernatural ability works like dimension door, it shares the limitation of immediately ending your turn after use. Furthermore, dimensional agility as worded specifically only works for casted dimension door spells and the abundant step ability. Abundant step is the only ability that simulates dimension door and works with dimensional agility. The teleportation subschool ability does not work with DA. That should also solve the problem with the teleportaton-subschool EFS users (or rather, it should never have been a problem if the rules were applied correctly).
Benefit: After using abundant step or casting dimension door, you can take any actions you still have remaining on your turn. You also gain a +4 bonus on Concentration checks when casting teleportation spells.
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Immediate actions can happen at any time. It follows that, if there is no time, immediate actions cannot happen.+1
My view also.
There are just too many "after hit", "when targeted", to suggest it's not intended to work after targeted/hit.More or less my feeling.
It really nerds the spell into uselessness if it doesn't act as an interrupt after target has been chosen.
I have no problem with the spell interrupting the landing of a spell cast. But I do want to remind you that you may not know you are targeted until you are hit. Most spells do not give an outward appearance to show you will be the recipient of its affects. Which also cuts down on EFS's power. Which is a good thing.
Fireball has a pea-sized thing flying in your generally direction, you can react to that. But Phantasmal Killer and Black Tentacles do not have such niceties.
Any Ray spell like disintegrate or a cone or line AOE.
I agree there has to be something noticeable to react to to choose to cast EFS after the target has been chosen.
Absent sensible stimuli, the EFS would have to be preventative rather than truly emergency.
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Wow, can we please stop with requests to ban things? This has gotten absurd! It feels like every week we have a new topic about something, generally obscure, that someone doesn't like, and they bemoan the damage it does/might wreak upon the campaign. Enough already.
You know what does damage the campaign? Coming to the official forums and wading through post after post by forum "regulars" griping about their latest pet peeve, and stirring up the forum mob to get that which upsets them removed from the game.
Aside from being drearily monotonous, it is also a massive turn off as a player. Basically it comes across as either, wow, there must be a lot wrong with this game, what with all these complaints... Or it looks like, hmm, there sure are a lot of people whining to management to get their way. Neither is the kind of thing that inspires confidence in the campaign, or those involved in it. It is even worse when those supporting these ban threads start to look like a forum clique.
Seeing things long legal removed from the campaign... especially on the grounds of anecdotal complaints... has a disheartening effect, and gets frustrating. If it happens too often, or even the requests become too commonplace, that frustration can grow to to annoyance, or just hit a plateau and inspire defeated disinterest.
The more onerous and fickle the rules and rulings in PFS become, the less fun the campaign is. Let's not suck the fun out of the game in a quest to remove everything that we disagree with.
Pathfinder Society Lead Developer
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Wow, can we please stop with requests to ban things? This has gotten absurd! It feels like every week we have a new topic about something, generally obscure, that someone doesn't like, and they bemoan the damage it does/might wreak upon the campaign. Enough already.
You know what does damage the campaign? Coming to the official forums and wading through post after post by forum "regulars" griping about their latest pet peeve, and stirring up the forum mob to get that which upsets them removed from the game.
Aside from being drearily monotonous, it is also a massive turn off as a player. Basically it comes across as either, wow, there must be a lot wrong with this game, what with all these complaints... Or it looks like, hmm, there sure are a lot of people whining to management to get their way. Neither is the kind of thing that inspires confidence in the campaign, or those involved in it. It is even worse when those supporting these ban threads start to look like a forum clique.
Seeing things long legal removed from the campaign... especially on the grounds of anecdotal complaints... has a disheartening effect, and gets frustrating. If it happens too often, or even the requests become too commonplace, that frustration can grow to to annoyance, or just hit a plateau and inspire defeated disinterest.
The more onerous and fickle the rules and rulings in PFS become, the less fun the campaign is. Let's not suck the fun out of the game in a quest to remove everything that we disagree with.
I like to think that there's some balance in rules curation between total permissiveness and the blind application of the banhammer.
Removing options is a painful process and among the least enjoyable parts of my job; I'd much rather create fun adventures for people to enjoy. When I read that a mechanic is making it difficult to enjoy those adventures, I investigate why. Anecdotal evidence isn't the most objective source and suffers from a limited sample size, yet it's what I have to work with. At this point Linda and I spend increasing amounts of time looking through new books and reviewing content in part because limiting options after the fact is so difficult. Like you say, banning something later doesn't reflect well on the campaign.
One advantage of these discussions is that they bring up some interesting rules considerations and potential clarifications that I hadn't considered before, such as the timing of immediate actions as compared to the triggering action. My impression is that emergency force shield is intended to be perfectly reactive (i.e. appears after targeting but before the effect takes effect), even if some of the deeper rules discussion suggests that shouldn't be the case. I don't intend that impression to be binding.
I don't intend to make any changes to emergency force sphere in the next Additional Resources update. I am, however, watching the associated rules thread with curiosity. It may be that we could benefit from some clarification in the Campaign Clarifications document, or perhaps the Pathfinder Design Team can some insight on the matter. It's still a little early for me to say.
Either way, this thread has run it course. Be good to each other, folks.
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My impression is that emergency force shield is intended to be perfectly reactive (i.e. appears after targeting but before the effect takes effect), even if some of the deeper rules discussion suggests that shouldn't be the case. I don't intend that impression to be binding.
Under that interpretation I'd be advocating for a hydraulic powered adamantium banhammer. A fourth level spell to auto block 99% of attacks as an action a caster isn't using anyway is really nuts.
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FiddlersGreen, per the FAQ spelllikes that reference the specific spell count as meeting casting requirements
Huh. I stand corrected. So with a 1 level dip into the teleport subschool, you can start taking climbing the dimensional agility feat tree from level 1.
...So you know how I said earlier in the thread that I thought the subschool was overpowered but wasn't going to start a crusade against it...
Actually, I double-checked the FAQ and would disagree. The FAQ is for spell-like abilities specifically. The teleportation subschool power is a supernatural ability that acts like dimension door (thus sharing the weakness of DD). But it is not a spell-like ability that can be serve as a prerequisite, and also falls outside the purview of the listed uses of the dimensional agility feat.
Spell-Like Abilities, Casting, and Prerequisites: Does a creature with a spell-like ability count as being able to cast that spell for the purpose of prerequisites or requirements?
Only if the pre-requisite calls out the name of a spell explicitly. For instance, the Dimensional Agility feat (Ultimate Combat) has "ability to use the abundant step class feature or cast dimension door" as a prerequisite; a barghest has dimension door as a spell-like ability, so the barghest meets the "able to cast dimension door prerequisite for that feat. However, the barghest's dimension door would not meet requirements such as "Ability to cast 4th level spells" or "Ability to cast arcane spells".posted February 2015 | back to top
Benefit: After using abundant step or casting dimension door, you can take any actions you still have remaining on your turn. You also gain a +4 bonus on Concentration checks when casting teleportation spells.
So thankfully, under a careful reading of the rules, you actually can't use the teleportation subschool's ability as a 'backdoor' and start climbing the dimensional agility feat tree from level 1, nor can you abuse it with dimensional agility. Or at least, none of the rules referred to thus far support that notion. If it did, I'd be asking to borrow BNW's "hydraulic powered adamantium banhammer".
But what makes it overpowered in my opinion is also that it is a supernatural ability, and hence does not require any kind of concentration. As a swift action. But I'm not going to press it further. Or if I decide to, it won't be on this thread...
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I do see 3 misunderstandings around EFS:
1. How the spell works.
Some people think you can somehow cast that in any direction, but the description and intent is pretty clear. It´s a standing dome, centered on the caster with no protection at the bottom and that bottom can´t be sideways.
Also what can penetrate under the dome and when. The spell itself says "The bottom edge of the dome forms a relatively watertight space if you are standing on a reasonably flat surface. " So black tentacles or other effects on the floor is not unreasonable, check the environment.
2. Probably the most "difficult", which has actually nothing to do with the spell itself, how immediate actions work. I think Feather Fall is a good example actually. For some reason you fall and before that happens, you cast the spell.
Being targeted works the same way. Something targets you with something, casting a spell, a melee attack, whatever. Then, after the targeting is declared, effectively using that action, the immediate action can happen and EFS be cast, which comes into effect before the triggering action is resolved.
Here´s some help from another game:
There´s action cards (which you can only do on your turn), sometimes cards (which you can play sometimes, when the specifications on the bard are met. Swashbucklers riposte and parry is an example.) and there´s anytime cards (which you can play whenever).
Immediate actions are clearly anytime cards.
3. How dimensional agility interacts with different abilities and who actually qualifies for it. That´s a totaly different construction side though and also a rules question.
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Being targeted works the same way. Something targets you with something, casting a spell, a melee attack, whatever. Then, after the targeting is declared, effectively using that action, the immediate action can happen and EFS be cast, which comes into effect before the triggering action is resolved.
You make all pertinent decisions about a spell (range, target, area, effect, version, and so forth) when the spell comes into effect.
This this strongly suggests a lack of time in between targeting and effect.
2. Probably the most "difficult", which has actually nothing to do with the spell itself, how immediate actions work. I think Feather Fall is a good example actually. For some reason you fall and before that happens, you cast the spell.
Or you fall 5 feet and then cast the spell. Or someone falls past you and you cast it. There's no need to turn it into a timey whimey ball.
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How about we stop flogging the dead equine ?
I'm tired of "player x" misrepresents the spell arguments. At nearly 140 scenarios and at least 1/4 to1/3 of them in tier for that spell I've seen it used FOUR times
Can't we move beyond the ban this train we are on now?
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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This this strongly suggests a lack of time in between targeting and effect.This isn't MtG. The game has a ton of examples of immediate actions usable in the sliver of time between targeting and effect, no matter how short it is.
Like what?
Any that I can think of, you are still affected, but the condition changes or you get a bonus. Furthermore, most are at least somewhat specific use cases.
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This this strongly suggests a lack of time in between targeting and effect.This isn't MtG.
If it was, there would be lots of time in between the targeting and the effect, the game would be built around the interruptions, and have clear rules regarding it.
The game has a ton of examples of immediate actions usable in the sliver of time between targeting and effect, no matter how short it is.
There are lots of things that are in response to being effected. Not the same thing.
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Venture-Agent, Nebraska—Omaha
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There are lots of things that are in response to being effected. Not the same thing.While I'll accept you see it as not the same, I see it as they couldn't more more similar.
Most abilities ("When you are the target of [such-and-such] spell...") trigger on effect. The spell has been cast and you are included in the targets. If you fail a save, the effect will resolve.
If being targeted and being affected are the same thing, as you say, how do you justify preventing line-of-effect after being targeted? Are you conflating being affected with resolving the effects?