Kineticist questions


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I've become rather enamored with the Kineticist class recently, and got it into my head to make an Overwhelming Soul. I'd like to have this guy possibly act as the party face, as well as be something of a mobility expert in and out of battle by using Ride the Blast with his Air and Electric Blasts and form infusions that change those blasts' range and trajectory. However, there's a few things I kinda need clarification on to settle on what precisely I'd like to do with him, and if and how my ideas might end up working. Also, forgive me if I miss out on something basic, I'm still fairly new to this.

1 - One of the first things that drew me in was the combination of Electric Blast + Chain + Ride the Blast + Air's Reach, both as a means of transporting long distances in areas with larger numbers of enemies and possibly as a means to apply Magnetic Infusion to multiple enemies. It seems safe to assume that the initial range is 60 feet, but does Air's Reach also extend to each chained hit, such that my guy will be able to bound between targets 60 feet away from one another, or will each of my targets need to be within 30 feet of the last as the ability text states? Also, could I target, say, an inanimate object within my blast's range as part of the chain?

2 - I noticed several wild talents have a duration of "until the next time your burn is removed" such as Jagged Flesh or Aerial Evasion. Normally these abilities couldn't be used by an Overwhelming Soul since they cost 1 burn, but via Mental Prowess, one could reduce the burn cost to 0 and allow themselves to use it. What does this mean for the effect's duration? Does the effect never trigger since the burn that would have caused it never occurred? Would the effect become permanent since there's no burn to remove, thus no burn is ever removed? Or is it assumed that, since burn is removed from most Kineticists after a full night's rest, that the effect in question would just be removed after a night's rest too?

3 - Since an Overwhelming Soul can't intentionally accept burn, does that make Metakinesis useless unless they choose the Empower effect for Metakinesis Mastery to drop that cost from 1 to 0? And does that mean Omnikinesis is completely useless since both of its potential effects require the player to accept burn, or would they still be able to activate blasts they don't know via Omnikinesis with Mental Prowess, since the added burn is stated to be an addition to the blast's burn cost?

4 - How exactly does Ride the Blast interact with Mobile Blast? Woul I only be able to ride it to its first location? Would I stay inside it for its entire duration? Or would I move with it every time I make it move, but otherwise stand outside of it while it's not moving? (Also keep in mind that this is going to be a permanent ball of whatever, since and an Overwhelming Soul I won't even be able to use it unless its burn cost has been reduced to 0 anyway.)

5 - Can I use Ride the Blast to fire myself straight up? Or in any non-horizontal direction, for that matter, so long as my ending point is within line of sight?


2- I think it depends on whether it has the phrase 'if you accept X burn'.

I am fairly sure that means that you can't use it unless you burn (or at least use your buffer...which you lack).

Overall, from the other threads, I think it has been said that this archetype is meant for those that do not want to accept burn at all (it is a risk reward thing). Which is why they give you overwhelming power, which gives a similar basic bonus as overflow (although less damage...and no stat boosts)

3- You can use empower if you gather power (since it just adds to burn cost). But yes, you are pretty much locked out until you have super charged for gather power (which would allow maximize...but empower is better anyway, from what I can see). You could get quicken with metakinesis master and super charge.

Generally...this archetype is not seen as very...good. Cha is less desirable, and even if you prefer the 'no burn' playstyle, you can just do that with kineticist. But honestly, since a con focused kinectistic basically balances out a lot of the damages from burn... well, one with 3 burn is on par with an overwhelming soul (in health) and it fairly much matches the overwhelming power bonuses to attack/damage...from level 6 (+2 attack from burn that goes to +3 later on, +2 dex for +1 more attack, +3-+4 total; +4 damage that goes to +6 later, +2 con for +2 more damage...maybe, +5-+7 damage total)

So if I was going the minimal burn route, I would just go with earth, pump 3 burn into the DR (cause dr 6 adamantine at level 6 man....) and just run around like taht all day. If I am only going to use 3 burn, making myself into a tank all day with extra boosts seems like a great way to do it. I can make barbarians jealous.


1) No, only the initial hit. The chaining is not "range", which is defined as being distance from the caster.

2) "until the next time your burn is removed" = 8 hours of rest.

3) Empower = Move Action Gather Power. Maximize+Empower = Full round + Move Action Empower. Quicken and 2x are much more difficult for you to accomplish.

4) You appear at the starting position of the Mobile Blast, you don't get to ride with the mobile blast since you can only Ride the blast itself.

5) Yes, since Kinetic Blasts are "Rays", and you'll see under Magic that a Ray can be shot into any space in hopes of hitting something.


Sphynx wrote:
3) Empower = Move Action Gather Power. Maximize+Empower = Full round + Move Action Empower. Quicken and 2x are much more difficult for you to accomplish.

Technically true...but lets be honest here- doing anything more than move action gather power is not really something you can do in usual battle. It is big, flashy, noisy, and invitation for the enemy to attack you and have it blow back in your face. And honestly...the higher meta magics are not worth the time spent to get 0 burn (since you could shoot two empowered blasts instead, pronbably getting better damage)

The main situation where I can imagine this working is that enemies are at the edge of your extended range, they don't have effective ranged weapons, and they have to spend a turn just getting within charge distance to you. And you wouldn't be using that gathered energy for the higher metamagics (since again, two empowered blasts are probably better).

No, you would be throwing infusions on there to do things like AoE grappling (deadly earth+grappling infusion- 7 burn, which I think can be covered by level 11 with full+move super charge and infusion specialization 3) so that you mess them up and leave them as easy targets for everyone else.


Wasn't saying it was a good idea, was showing the only way to use these metakinetic features. :)

Silver Crusade

Where does it say kinetic blasts are rays?


It doesn't say kinetic blasts are rays, but if kinetic blasts aren't rays, then there is no -4 to shoot into combat, doesn't get critical hits, etc, etc...

A developer once said that any spell or spell-like ability (Sp) that requires an attack or ranged attack roll, is considered a ray.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

If you use the English definition, a ray is a mathematical abstract, basicall a line that starts at a point, and then goes on to a theoretical infinity (no second point).

However, it is also defined within the game itself:
Ray: Some effects are rays. You aim a ray as if using a ranged weapon, though typically you make a ranged touch attack rather than a normal ranged attack. As with a ranged weapon, you can fire into the dark or at an invisible creature and hope you hit something. You don't have to see the creature you're trying to hit, as you do with a targeted spell. Intervening creatures and obstacles, however, can block your line of sight or provide cover for the creature at which you're aiming.

If a ray spell has a duration, it's the duration of the effect that the ray causes, not the length of time the ray itself persists.

If a ray spell deals damage, you can score a critical hit just as if it were a weapon. A ray spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit.

If you use the standard English definition, then yes, just about every spell with a ranged attack or ranged touch attack could be classified as a ray. However, using the game's definition makes me think that, that is not the case.


Thatd be fine by me, saves me from 2 otherwise heavily needed feats. :P. Point Blank and Precise Shot.


Just because they aren't rays doesn't mean that they don't have the penalty for shooting into combat. here is a thread hoping for a FAQ to answer this question.


Rays are a ranged attack, so they incur penalties on ranged attacks. You still need PBS and PS to avoid these penalties.

Kinetic Blast is not defined as a ray, but rather as a sizable amount of elemental matter or energy, but not as a held or wielded weapon.


No, no if it is not a ray, you dont need PBS and PS. -4 is only for weapons, Sp's are only weapons if they are rays, only because rays are treated as weapons. The moment you decide KB is not a ray, you lose all the rules of the ray, it is not a pick n choose thing.


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did you read the thread I linked? You might view it that clearly, other's agree with you, but there's also a large amount of people who's view isn't a simple. And you do deal with cover in either case.

Scarab Sages

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Sphynx wrote:
No, no if it is not a ray, you dont need PBS and PS. -4 is only for weapons, Sp's are only weapons if they are rays, only because rays are treated as weapons. The moment you decide KB is not a ray, you lose all the rules of the ray, it is not a pick n choose thing.

That doesn't make the least amount of sense to me. I haven't ever seen a ranged attack in Pathfinder that was explicitly exempt from the -4 penalty. Besides, you can take Weapon Focus for Kinetic Blast, so I don't see how it could not be a weapon.


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We have no clear rules on "weapons that aren't weapons" and how do SLA work with spell stuff? Thus the opening for confusion.


Thanks for the replies, guys~ What Sphynx confirmed is pretty much what I was assuming in most cases. I guess my biggest thing was the wording; for the Metakineses and Omnikinesis I wasn't sure, since it does specifically say "by accepting X points of Burn" which, to me, implies that it isn't considered part of the cost of the blast, and therefore couldn't be used with Gather Power.

Even with Gather Power working for it I more or less assumed Twice would be useless, since I'd have to both apply Metakinesis Master to it and use a full-round charge to afford it. It might have some use if an opponent is in some position where it'd completely be protected from my attacks but loses that protection at the end of its turn, but otherwise, I'm just deferring an action I could have taken on the turn I'd Gather Power over to the turn I'd use the charge for Twice.

Quicken would require I take it with Metakinesis Master to be useful, since then I'd spend a move action to Gather Power, a quick action to use the Quickened blast, and still have a Standard left over; with this build I could use that to override my natural move speed in open areas by using my standard action for a blast or whatever else I would need it for, and use Gather Power to Quicken a simple blast infused with Extended or Extreme Range and Ride the Blast. Then again, this is only gonna be possible at 19th level, so it's not the most feasible option out there.

Probably with Metakinesis Master, my best option would be Empower, since that's going to allow me to use it for free, and I can still Gather Power as a move action to use Maximize if I feel the need for it. Also, if Metakinesis can be used with Gather Power, I think it'd be safe to assume that Omnikinesis can use it as well, at least for the first half of its function (take a point of burn to use a blast that you don't know).

However, all this is giving me some confusion regarding Kinetic Blasts as far as what rules they follow. I assumed that the physical blasts were counted as ranged attacks, and the energy blasts were counted as ranged touch attacks, and therefore they'd both be subject to the -4 penalty, even if they aren't weapons. Also, the rules for Kinetic Blast do state that it counts as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats, so even if it isn't considered a ray, it may well follow the same kinds of rules as they do, and I'm inclined to assume as such.

Regardless, I'm also still not 100& sure if I can Chain to things other than enemies, although I'm thinking I could as long as it has its own HP. Understandably I can't just point to any pebble 60 ft away and be like "See that rock? I'm gonna Chain Electric Blast to that rock, then off of it into the ribcage of that goblin hiding behind the wall there." But could I, say, set up a barrier with Kinetic Cover then later use Chain to bounce off of it? Or could I have an ally drop something on the ground that I could target, or could I rebound back to an elemental I've summoned with Spark of Life? Obviously if I did use an inanimate object as a pivot I'm giving up damage and there's always the chance I'd miss it, but it seems a risk I'd be willing to take.


Yeah...with empower as your metamaster, you could make your default blast into an empowered composite blast (since that is covered by super charged gather power), and then you can add 6 burn worth of infusions on top due to infusion specialization.

That can be your default move. It can be the default for both regular and overwhelming souls.

Anyway, for shooting into melee....is that a problem? It is a single feat (precise shot) to solve that. And as far as I can see, there aren't too many feats that kinectists need- toughness (to cover health loss..which overwhelming souls don't really need to worry about), weapon focus (cause why not, you only have 3/4 BAB), maybe deadly shot and some will save feats... really, there isn't too much that you "need". You aren't like normal ranged characters, who need a ton of archery feats, or even like a caster, who needs a ton of metamagic feats.

Just grab the basic feats early on, and then go for flavor.

(I know there is an extra infusion feat... but I am unsure on its usefulness. Each element only has so many infusions, they are level gated enough that you don't have too much overlap, and I have heard that your selection with the feat is limited since it only gets infusions for lower than your level)


Barring melee form Infusions, a Kinetic Blast is a ranged attack.

Because I can't find it on the PRD, here's D20PFSRD.COM

Kinetic Blast wrote:
Physical blasts are ranged attacks that deal an amount of damage equal to 1d6+1 + the kineticist's Constitution modifier, increasing by 1d6+1 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st. Spell resistance doesn't apply against physical blasts. Energy blasts are ranged touch attacks that deal an amount of damage equal to 1d6 + 1/2 the kineticist's Constitution modifier, increasing by 1d6 for every 2 kineticist levels beyond 1st.
PRD wrote:

Dexterity (Dex)

Dexterity measures agility, reflexes, and balance. This ability is the most important one for rogues, but it's also useful for characters who wear light or medium armor or no armor at all. This ability is vital for characters seeking to excel with ranged weapons, such as the bow or sling. A character with a Dexterity score of 0 is incapable of moving and is effectively immobile (but not unconscious).

You apply your character's Dexterity modifier to:

Ranged attack rolls, including those for attacks made with bows, crossbows, throwing axes, and many ranged spell attacks like scorching ray or searing light


Catharsis wrote:


That doesn't make the least amount of sense to me. I haven't ever seen a ranged attack in Pathfinder that was explicitly exempt from the -4 penalty. Besides, you can take Weapon Focus for Kinetic Blast, so I don't see how it could not be a weapon.

That is kinda my point Catharsis. Kinetic Blast does everything that a ray does, it is treated in every way as a ray (regardless if this is just a global error on our parts, or if it is intended as so).

If it looks like a ray, smells like a ray, acts like a ray and sounds like a ray...

And thematically... Since the derail was inreply to being able to shoot into an empty square... Why wouldnt it be able to? Two blasts, earth and aether, are throwing an object. Two blasts are throwing blasts of either water or air, and the other three blasts are shooting an energy. Not making the element magically appear around the target (which would obviously not be.a ray), so why even debate if it is a ray or not? You can obviously, by the very definition of kinetic, projectile what you are doing. The target is irrelevant, and is only a part of the description because they can potentially move out of the way (or we can miss the much smaller target than a 5x5x5 block of the world.


Actually, having the element just appear near the opponent would be pretty cool for earth.

I am mostly imaginging that they get impaled from below by a spike/stalagmite

But for general purposes, making it a normal ranged weapon is appropriate.

Dark Archive

It's not treated like a ray. If it were, the text would read that Kinetic Blasts counted as rays, rather than counting as weapons for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus.

Why do people always make things harder than they need to be?


Legio_MCMLXXXVII wrote:

It's not treated like a ray. If it were, the text would read that Kinetic Blasts counted as rays, rather than counting as weapons for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus.

Why do people always make things harder than they need to be?

Because people assume that there's a -4 to attack rolls which only happens to Rays and Weapons. Because it makes sense that they are intended as rays.

I personally don't care if it's a ray or not. But I do care that if someone wants to claim it's not a ray, but decides to add a -4 to attack rolls when firing into melee. It's either a ray or not a ray, it's not a pick-n-choose what aspects of a ray you decide to interpret it has having.

And seriously, the ONLY aspects that a ray offers are:
1) -4 to attack rolls when firing into melee
2) A chance for a Critical Attack
3) Ability to fire into an open space

So, it's either all 3, or none of the 3.


Makes sense if you think about it.

3 choices...
1) suffer a -4 on firing into melee to gain a chance at critical and wider targetting options.
2) dont suffer a penalty, but dont get to critical or wider target options
3) sacrifice two feats, get no penalty, get a chance to critical and wider targetting options.

Thats why I dont care if its a ray or not, they all balance each other out. :)

Dark Archive

Sphynx wrote:
Legio_MCMLXXXVII wrote:

It's not treated like a ray. If it were, the text would read that Kinetic Blasts counted as rays, rather than counting as weapons for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus.

Why do people always make things harder than they need to be?

Because people assume that there's a -4 to attack rolls which only happens to Rays and Weapons. Because it makes sense that they are intended as rays.

I personally don't care if it's a ray or not. But I do care that if someone wants to claim it's not a ray, but decides to add a -4 to attack rolls when firing into melee. It's either a ray or not a ray, it's not a pick-n-choose what aspects of a ray you decide to interpret it has having.

And seriously, the ONLY aspects that a ray offers are:
1) -4 to attack rolls when firing into melee
2) A chance for a Critical Attack
3) Ability to fire into an open space

So, it's either all 3, or none of the 3.

It takes the firing into melee penalty. It has a chance to critically hit. It can fire into an open space. Still isn't a ray. It's a kinetic blast.

Also, the other thing that being a ray offers is not needing to be called out as counting as a weapon for the purposes of feats like weapon focus. If it were a ray, it would be affected by Weapon Focus: Ray, and there would be no need for Weapon Focus: Kinetic Blast.

It's seriously not hard.


Why does it have a penalty for firing into melee, why does it get a chance to critical, and to fire into an open space? Where are those rules?

Dark Archive

uch Attacks: Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The act of casting a spell, however, does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack as long as the spell deals damage.

Critical hits explained.

I'll have to take my time looking for the rest, but I recall seeing it before, so it's just a matter of finding it again. This was the easiest but to find quickly, but it's a start.


I look forward to it, I went through all the books (via the prd of course) to find any reference that would cause Kinetic Blast to receive a -4, and the only things I could find are if it was a ray, or if it was a weapon. Didn't really search for the open-area stuff, but I'm pretty sure you won't find that anywhere either. :/

Scarab Sages

Sphynx wrote:
I look forward to it, I went through all the books (via the prd of course) to find any reference that would cause Kinetic Blast to receive a -4, and the only things I could find are if it was a ray, or if it was a weapon.
PFSRD Kineticist: Kinetic blast wrote:
Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus.

Kinetic blasts are weapons. You just don't count as "wielding" them (presumably for things like Lead Blades).

In any case, given that all ranged attack rolls in Pathfinder have universally suffered a –4 penalty when shooting in melee, the books would absolutely have to mention the lack of penalty explicitly if it were an intended feature of kinetic blasts. That would be a huge boon to kinetic blast compared to all other ranged attacks in the game. There is no such mention. I can't believe such a fundmental fact would be left unstated for the reader to puzzle together on their own.

I'm not sure why kinetic blasts were not named "rays" — my guess would be that it's better for Kineticsts if they're a weapon category of their own, since that allows them to use Weapon Focus and Improved Critical etc. on both ranged and melee blasts. I don't think they meant for them to be different from rays in any other way — if you think they should, the burden of proof is on you to find an explicit wording to that effect.


I think it's pretty much assumed that, with the exception of some infusions, all of the Blasts are thrown or shot at an enemy (aside from Telekinetic, in which case you're picking up and object and throwing that). Take away thinking about mechanics and numbers and just imagine yourself in the position of the Kineticist themselves. You're still throwing a ball or shooting a beam of magically charged whatever toward the enemy, and if an ally you don't want to hit is standing right next to them, unless you've got the confidence that you won't hit them while they're moving around, you're going to pull back just a bit, sacrificing your damage potential so you can aim at the enemy, and as such taking the risk of losing some damage or missing altogether.

Actually, going over the rules for Kinetic Blade, I noticed two particular things:

Kinetic Blade wrote:

You form a weapon using your kinetic abilities. You create a nonreach, light or one-handed weapon in your hand formed of pure energy or elemental matter. (If you're a telekineticist, you instead transfer the power of your kinetic blast to any object held in one hand.) The kinetic blade's shape is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect the damage dice, critical threat range, or critical multiplier of the kinetic blade, nor does it grant the kinetic blade any weapon special features. The object held by a telekineticist for this form infusion doesn't prevent her from using gather power.

You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it's part of another action (and isn't an action itself), using this wild talent doesn't provoke any additional attacks of opportunity. The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast's damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier). The blade disappears at the end of your turn. The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type. Even if a telekineticist uses this power on a magic weapon or another unusual object, the attack doesn't use any of the magic weapon's bonuses or effects and simply deals the telekineticist's blast damage. The kinetic blade doesn't add the damage bonus from elemental overflow.

This first bolded part makes the distinction that damage and criticals are not affected by applying Kinetic Blade, and while this may mostly be a distinction so the player can't say that they can roll to confirm a critical on an attack roll of 18 if their blade is in the shape of a kukri, or that their critical does triple damage because it's shaped like a warhammer, that also implies that the Kinetic Blast already has its own critical range and damage, so that should put that debate to rest (and of course, since the totals for those aren't stated, it can be assumed that it only threatens a critical at 20 and has a 2x critical multiplier).

The second bolded part is also important, although I don't think it was strongly debated, because it makes the distinction that this particular infusion allows you to use it as part of an attack action, rather than it being an action all its own. This means that, although it's considered a ranged or ranged touch attack, the use of a kinetic blast isn't itself an attack action. Therefore, unless it's being used with a Kinetic Blade/Fist/Whip infusion, kinetic blasts aren't going to be affected by BAB.

I guess this still doesn't solve the ray debate, but at least we're getting closer. I think I've already stated this but the way I see it, Kinetic Blasts are essentially ray imposters; they look like rays and they act like rays, they just aren't rays. It's like making the distinction between an SOS pad and a Brillo pad. It's a "rose by any other name" situation, pretty much.

Oh, and also, while I didn't make this part bolded too, it also states that an object used for Kinetic Blade is't counted as being held for the purpose of Gather Power, so essentially if you plan to use Aether and be a melee fighter, having an object in-hand is essential. It could be literally anything since its properties don't matter to the Telekinetic Blade/Whip, but it has to be something. I dunno, Telekineticists seem like they'd make better use of flinging things around and don't strike me as particularly offensive anyway, considering the double-Aether composite deals the damage of a simple blast, but it's something to consider. Maybe if you're going with an element trifecta and want Aether as the main?


Catharsis wrote:


In any case, given that all ranged attack rolls in Pathfinder have universally suffered a –4 penalty when shooting in melee,

Where does it say this (outside, of course, of people posting it on these forums instead of an a FAQ or Errata)?

While something may be universally accepted, that doesn't make it fact nor correct.

I'm not disagreeing, after all, I've stated in this thread already that I believe that Kinetic Blasts are rays, since they meet all the same effects of rays, I just don't know where such a rule exists, other than on these forums (which until recently, despite having played since the game came out, I never really paid attention to, and surely don't consider them official as a rules source). I'm of the opinion that the -4 has never come into question because all the other sources of such attacks are either labelled as "ray" or "weapon", or because the developer who answered the question on these forums, felt that it was a "ray" or "weapon" and likely would have stated as much if pressed into answering "Why?" to his affirmation. :/

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Hello everyone,

I have a different question on a Kineticist defense talent, Flesh of Stone.

From what I can tell it defense talents seems to be always active unless stated otherwise, but I wanted to make sure about this. With the Flesh of Stone talent it does not state that it needs to be activated. It does talk about when the earth kineticist accepts burn the DR of the power increases by 1 until the burn is removed (by resting). So this seems to show that it is a continually active power.

Anyone have a clarification? I just want to make sure I'm using the talent correctly.


GamerDJ wrote:

Hello everyone,

I have a different question on a Kineticist defense talent, Flesh of Stone.

From what I can tell it defense talents seems to be always active unless stated otherwise, but I wanted to make sure about this. With the Flesh of Stone talent it does not state that it needs to be activated. It does talk about when the earth kineticist accepts burn the DR of the power increases by 1 until the burn is removed (by resting). So this seems to show that it is a continually active power.

Anyone have a clarification? I just want to make sure I'm using the talent correctly.

Well, it does say 'you can dismiss or restore this effect as an immediate action', so...maybe it starts automatically the first time you get it, and you can then turn it off or on as you like. But when it starts is rather much a tiny semantic issue. It gives a fairly definite 'on/off' switch.

But yes, no stated time limits/usages, and it can be turned on at will. So it might as well be always on. I can think of very little reason why you would not have flesh of stone alway on. Unless you have jagged flesh ability, and you wanted to hug someone, of course.

But outside of that one side option, turning off the defensive powers seems more like a social/politness thing. Flesh of stone is none intrusive, but enveloping winds would wreck havoc in an office (with all the wind and lightning), searing flesh makes it hard to stand next to you, and shroud of water obviously has water going everywhere. Flesh of stone though...it is 'meh' when it comes to having it up constantly (I am unsure if there are even necessarily any visual cues associated with it; it just says your skin hardens, not that it looks different, so you only end up looking like The Thing if you really want to RP wise). Force ward is good too, since it is rather invisible/maybe just a slight glow?


Onyx Tanuki wrote:

The second bolded part is also important, although I don't think it was strongly debated, because it makes the distinction that this particular infusion allows you to use it as part of an attack action, rather than it being an action all its own. This means that, although it's considered a ranged or ranged touch attack, the use of a kinetic blast isn't itself an attack action. Therefore, unless it's being used with a Kinetic Blade/Fist/Whip infusion, kinetic blasts aren't going to be affected by BAB.

This is incorrect. All kinetic blasts use BAB even if it is not being used with an "attack action." This is just like ranged touch attacks or melee touch attacks as a part of spells also apply BAB and ability score modifiers to the roll.


Sphynx, core rulebook, in the combat section:

Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)

If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.

If your target is two size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with, this penalty is reduced to –2. There is no penalty for firing at a creature that is three size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with.

Precise Shot: If you have the Precise Shot feat, you don't take this penalty.


KalDragon wrote:

Sphynx, core rulebook, in the combat section:

Shooting or Throwing into a Melee: If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a –4 penalty on your attack roll. Two characters are engaged in melee if they are enemies of each other and either threatens the other. (An unconscious or otherwise immobilized character is not considered engaged unless he is actually being attacked.)

If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the –4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character.

If your target is two size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with, this penalty is reduced to –2. There is no penalty for firing at a creature that is three size categories larger than the friendly characters it is engaged with.

Precise Shot: If you have the Precise Shot feat, you don't take this penalty.

That's the thing, if it's not a weapon then you're not shooting a ranged weapon and no -4. If it is a weapon then you get weapon bonuses.


Other ranged touch attacks that are not rays that still ought to take the target in melee penalty: Acid Splash, Acid Arrow


that's why this thread is trying to get a FAQ about it.


cavernshark wrote:
Onyx Tanuki wrote:

The second bolded part is also important, although I don't think it was strongly debated, because it makes the distinction that this particular infusion allows you to use it as part of an attack action, rather than it being an action all its own. This means that, although it's considered a ranged or ranged touch attack, the use of a kinetic blast isn't itself an attack action. Therefore, unless it's being used with a Kinetic Blade/Fist/Whip infusion, kinetic blasts aren't going to be affected by BAB.

This is incorrect. All kinetic blasts use BAB even if it is not being used with an "attack action." This is just like ranged touch attacks or melee touch attacks as a part of spells also apply BAB and ability score modifiers to the roll.

Gotcha. So how exactly would BAB work with a Kinetic Blast? For example, let's say I'm 10th level, so my BAB is +7/+2. What exactly am I adding to the blast's attack roll from BAB? Just the +7? I would assume that (aside from using Quicken or Double metakinesis) I still only get one blast per turn since it's a spell-like ability that takes up a standard action, but since it's a ranged attack or ranged touch attack, I'd follow the normal rules of adding my Dex mod, size bonus, and range penalty?

Scarab Sages

Kinetic Blasts are not rays. However, they are a type of weapon.

Kinetic Blast wrote:
Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus.

Since a Kinetic Blast is a ranged weapon, then the standard -4 penalty for shooting into applies.


Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Gotcha. So how exactly would BAB work with a Kinetic Blast? For example, let's say I'm 10th level, so my BAB is +7/+2. What exactly am I adding to the blast's attack roll from BAB? Just the +7? I would assume that (aside from using Quicken or Double metakinesis) I still only get one blast per turn since it's a spell-like ability that takes up a standard action, but since it's a ranged attack or ranged touch attack, I'd follow the normal rules of adding my Dex mod, size bonus, and range penalty?

That is correct. A basic kinetic blast with no modifiers is a spell like ability which takes a standard action to activate. This SLA includes a single ranged attack if physical (against opponents AC) or a single ranged touch attack if energy (against opponents touch AC). In both cases you add your BAB (7 in this case) and your dexterity modifier as you would on any ranged attack. Incidentally, this is the same as if you threw a flask of alchemists fire or did some other standard action ranged attack that's not capable of a full-round attack action.


Imbicatus wrote:

Kinetic Blasts are not rays. However, they are a type of weapon.

Kinetic Blast wrote:
Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus.

Since a Kinetic Blast is a ranged weapon, then the standard -4 penalty for shooting into applies.

Pretty sure you just defeated yourself.

That states they count as ranged weapons for FEATS. Logically we could then assume they don't count as ranged weapons for anything else, or they wouldn't point it out.

Thus, no -4.


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cavernshark wrote:
Onyx Tanuki wrote:
Gotcha. So how exactly would BAB work with a Kinetic Blast? For example, let's say I'm 10th level, so my BAB is +7/+2. What exactly am I adding to the blast's attack roll from BAB? Just the +7? I would assume that (aside from using Quicken or Double metakinesis) I still only get one blast per turn since it's a spell-like ability that takes up a standard action, but since it's a ranged attack or ranged touch attack, I'd follow the normal rules of adding my Dex mod, size bonus, and range penalty?
That is correct. A basic kinetic blast with no modifiers is a spell like ability which takes a standard action to activate. This SLA includes a single ranged attack if physical (against opponents AC) or a single ranged touch attack if energy (against opponents touch AC). In both cases you add your BAB (7 in this case) and your dexterity modifier as you would on any ranged attack. Incidentally, this is the same as if you threw a flask of alchemists fire or did some other standard action ranged attack that's not capable of a full-round attack action.

Excellent, that's about what I was guessing~

This actually also brings up a thought I had for a "jedi" build, where the focus is on using Kinetic Blade/Whip for most attacks rather than other form infusions (so his blasts are actual attack actions rather than their own standard actions); would it be better to go the full 20 in Kineticist, or to multiclass as something else that gets +4 BAB by 4th level (like Barbarian, Fighter, or Paladin)? In the former case his BAB goes up to +15/+10/+5, so he gets three attacks, and assuming he has, say, 18 Con, and his uses a composite blast with Aetheric Boost, he could be dealing 3*(10d6+34) (10d6+20 from the blast's damage, 10 from Aetheric Boost, 4 from Con mod, for a range of 132 to 282 damage if all hits connect) with a physical Kinetic Blade/Whip or 3*(10d6+12) (10d6 from the blast's damage, 10 fro Aetheric Boost, 2 from Con mod, for a range of 66 to 216 damage if all hits connect) if using Blue Flame Blast instead. In the latter case, if everything remains the same except I take four levels in another class, I bring my BAB up to +16/+11/+6/+1, so I have an extra hit, but I've also lost two damage dice per Kinetic Blast. So I now have damage with a physical blast of 4*(8d6+28) (8d6+16 for blast damage, 8 for Aetheric Boost, 4 for Con, range of 144 to 304 if everything connects), or BFB would do 4*(8d6+10) (8d6 for blast damage, 8 for Aetheric Boost, 2 for Con, range of 72 to 232 if all hits connect).

So the pros for going all 20 in Kineticist are that he has less hits to deal his damage with (meaning a better chance that they'll all hit since the BAB on his last hit is still +5), gets the benefit of a free Empower or cheaper Maximize, and I'll get a few extra Wild Talents (as well as accessing 7th and 8th level WTs for any off-elements I take and 9th on my main element).

The pros on the other side are that I get extra overall damage without spending as much Burn, and I get to dabble in the things other classes might give me interesting bonuses. For example, I'd get another damage buff by using a Barbarian/Bloodrager's Rage (and I should be able to use Kinetic Blade/Whip in Rage since it's a Con-based skill), or a Cavalier could make a lot of use out of Challenge and Cavalier's Charge, as well as whatever bonuses he gets from his Order, or a Slayer could potentially apply tack on Sneak Attack damage as well as study targets. In some cases it could be worth it to go 15/5 rather than 16/4, needing to expend extra Burn on his composite blasts but getting slightly better benefits from the side-class (like better boost to Slayer's study target, or Bloodrager's improved uncanny dodge, or Cavalier's banner). Unfortunately, this extra versatility in his fighting style costs him a few key late-level abilities that he'd get as a Kineticist, and he's going to really need buffs to his attack rolls since, while he's getting an extra hit, that hit is more likely to miss because of having a BAB of 1, which would actually cut his potential damage a good chunk below the pure Kineticist because of his lower damage dice on his blasts.

Sorry, I'm probably rambling, but hopefully you guys get the gist of what I'm saying here. I'm honestly leaning toward a 16 Kineticist/4 Bloodrager build (because what better source would there be to awaken a person's Kineticist powers than a magical bloodline?) but I'm still thinking it'd be insanely cool to be charging at enemies on a steed while wielding a telekinetic lash.

Silver Crusade

I hate to break it to you Onyx Tanuki, but you can't use your blast (even the Kinetic Blade or Whip) while raging. First of all, just because it has modifiers based on Con doesn't make it a "Con-based skill". In fact, it's not a "skill" at all. "Skills" are things like Acrobatics, Sleight-of-Hand, Heal, etc. Furthermore, you can't use Spell-Like Abilities while you rage, and just because you're using the Kinetic Blade/Whip doesn't change the fact that it's still Spell-Like. Therefore you can't do it while raging. Even a Bloodrager (who can cast spells while raging at level 4) can't do it because Blood Casting (the ability that lets you do it) only specifies being able to do it with Bloodrager spells which Kinetic Blast isn't.

While many people in home-games allow the Urban Barbarian to do casting and the like since the flavor of it is that you're much more in control of yourself, RAW states that the Urban Barbarian still can't cast while raging. The clause "This otherwise follows the rules of rage" means "While in rage, a barbarian cannot use... any ability that requires patience or concentration" still applies and since Spell-Like Abilities need concentration, you are barred from using your blasts during Rage.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Where is the rule that says you can't use spell-like abilities while raging?


Counts as a spell and you can't cast while raging.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mahtobedis wrote:
Counts as a spell and you can't cast while raging.

The word "spell" doesn't even appear under the Rage class ability in that context.

Mind citing the actual rule that says a raging barbarian can't use a spell-like ability?


Ravingdork wrote:
Mahtobedis wrote:
Counts as a spell and you can't cast while raging.

The word "spell" doesn't even appear under the Rage class ability in that context.

Mind citing the actual rule that says a raging barbarian can't use a spell-like ability?

immediately, the fact that concentration checks are a part of the spell rules seems like a tip off (since barbarians can't do anything that requires concentration while raging). Then there is this bit:

CRB wrote:
To cast a spell, you must be able to speak (if the spell has a verbal component), gesture (if it has a somatic component), and manipulate the material components or focus (if any). Additionally, you must concentrate to cast a spell.

This is an issue that has been raised in the rules forums very often, and seems fairly well settled as far as I am aware.

Also, the fact that blood rager has to really go out of its way to grant you the ability to cast spells during its blood rage is another tip off.

This applies to kinetcist because it uses Spell Like Abilities...which function exactly like spells for most respects, except it removes the verbal, gesture, and material requirements so it is PURELY concentration... which can be tested with an AoO that comes when you use them.

Also, the kineticist class uses the words concentration or concentrate appears precisely 18 times. Removing the vaguer uses, it is still...16 or 17 times which would mess with rage.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
rage wrote:
"The increase to Constitution grants the barbarian 2 hit points per Hit Dice, but these disappear when the rage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."

Spell-Like is not related to the use of the ability, but the effect of the ability. You don't actually "cast" as spell-like ability, you use one (otherwise you'd end up with verbal components, material components, and somatic component requirements, as well as Arcane spell failure for wearing armor).

Now I could see an argument for not being able to use the Gather Power ability, as when you take damage you must make a Concentration check to maintain the gathered power, and you can't concentrate while raging.

But I don't see anything wrong with flying into a rage and shooting fire from your hands, since it's not really a case of concentration to do that, at least no more concentration than it takes to make any other standard action attack (like Cleave).


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Thank you, lemeres.


Admittedly I did get the terminology slightly confused. Aziraya was right in that I mixed up the definition of "skill" and I in no way meant that one could, for example, try to check for Bluff or Knowledge in the midst of a bloodrage.

So where does that leave us? Well, the other limitation to what can be done in the midst of a bloodrage is "any ability that requires patience or concentration." It doesn't specifically call out any particular type of ability, although the wording of blood casting implies that it means you can't cast spells (and even then, the only spells we're getting here are bloodrager spells, which can be cast during a bloodrage anyway). What we need to figure out with this is does a kinetic blast actually require concentration or patience to use?

Looks like we're about to have another "kinetic blasts are rays" situation on our hands. Anyway let's look at exactly what's happening here. I'm just gonna copy/paste as much stuff as I can find that's relevant to save people from needing to swap to other pages and dig things up themselves:

Spell-like Ability:
Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.

A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

If a character class grants a spell-like ability that is not based on an actual spell, the ability's effective spell level is equal to the highest-level class spell the character can cast, and is cast at the class level the ability is gained.

Bloodrage (Su):
The bloodrager's source of internal power grants him the ability to bloodrage.

At 1st level, a bloodrager can bloodrage for a number of rounds per day equal to 4 + his Constitution modifier. At each level after 1st, he can bloodrage for 2 additional rounds per day. Temporary increases to Constitution (such as those gained from bloodraging or spells like bear's endurance) don't increase the total number of rounds that a bloodrager can bloodrage per day. The total number of rounds of bloodrage per day is renewed after resting for 8 hours, although these hours need not be consecutive.

A bloodrager can enter a bloodrage as a free action. While in a bloodrage, a bloodrager gains a +4 morale bonus to his Strength and Constitution, as well as a +2 morale bonus on Will saves. In addition, he takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class. The increase to Constitution grants the bloodrager 2 hit points per Hit Die, but these disappear when the bloodrage ends and are not lost first like temporary hit points. While bloodraging, a bloodrager cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration.

A bloodrager can end his bloodrage as a free action. When the bloodrage ends, he's fatigued for a number of rounds equal to twice the number of rounds spent in the bloodrage. A bloodrager cannot enter a new bloodrage while fatigued or exhausted, but can otherwise enter bloodrage multiple times during a single encounter or combat. If a bloodrager falls unconscious, his bloodrage immediately ends, placing him in peril of death.

Bloodrage counts as the barbarian's rage class feature for the purpose of feat prerequisites, feat abilities, magic item abilities, and spell effects.

Blood Casting (Su):
At 4th level, the bloodrager gains the ability to cast spells even while bloodraging. He can also cast these spells defensively and can make concentration checks for these spells while bloodraging. While bloodraging, he can cast and concentrate on only his bloodrager spells (see below); spells from other classes cannot be cast during this state.

Kinetic Blast (Sp):
At 1st level, a kineticist gains a kinetic blast wild talent of her choice. This kinetic blast must be a simple blast that matches her element.

As a standard action, the kineticist can unleash a kinetic blast at a single target up to a range of 30 feet. She must have at least one hand free to aim the blast (or one prehensile appendage, if she doesn't have hands). All damage from a kinetic blast is treated as magic for the purpose of bypassing damage reduction. Kinetic blasts count as a type of weapon for the purpose of feats such as Weapon Focus. The kineticist is never considered to be wielding or gripping the kinetic blast (regardless of effects from form infusions; see Infusion), and she can't use Vital Strike feats with kinetic blasts. Even the weakest kinetic blast involves a sizable mass of elemental matter or energy, so kinetic blasts always deal full damage to swarms of any size (though only area blasts deal extra damage to swarms). A readied kinetic blast can be used to counterspell any spell of equal or lower level that shares its descriptor. A kinetic blast that deals energy damage of any type (including force) has the corresponding descriptor.

Wild Talent:
A kineticist can use wild talents—magical abilities similar to spells but drawn from the kineticist's innate psychic talent and usable at will. Wild talents are typically spell-like abilities (though some are supernatural abilities), and take a standard action to use unless otherwise noted. A wild talent always has the elemental descriptor or descriptors (aether, air, earth, fire, or water) matching its element entry. A wild talent that can be used with any of several elements gains the appropriate elemental descriptor when used with an element. For example, the wall wild talent gains the earth descriptor when used by a geokineticist.

Every wild talent has an effective spell level. A kineticist can always select 1st-level wild talents, but she can select a wild talent of a higher level only if her kineticist level is at least double the wild talent's effective spell level. Kinetic blast and defense wild talents are always considered to have an effective spell level equal to 1/2 the kineticist's class level (to a maximum effective spell level of 9th at kineticist level 18th).

Unless otherwise noted, the DC for a saving throw against a wild talent is equal to 10 + the wild talent's effective spell level + the kineticist's Constitution modifier. The kineticist uses her Constitution modifier on all concentration checks for wild talents.

In addition to the wild talents she gains from her other class features, at 2nd level and every 2 levels thereafter, a kineticist selects a new utility wild talent from the list of options available to her. A kineticist can select only universal wild talents or those that match her element (see Elemental Focus above). At 6th, 10th, and 16th levels, a kineticist can replace one of her utility wild talents with another wild talent of the same level or lower. She can't replace a wild talent that she used to qualify for another of her wild talents.

Infusion (Su):
At 1st level, a kineticist gains an infusion wild talent from the list of options available based on her elemental focus. She gains additional infusions at 3rd, 5th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 17th, and 19th levels. By using infusions along with her kinetic blasts, a kineticist can alter her kinetic blasts to suit her needs. Infusions come in two types, each of which changes a kinetic blast differently: a substance infusion causes an additional effect, while a form infusion causes the kinetic blast to manifest in a different way. Each infusion can alter only certain kinds of kinetic blasts, which are listed in its Associated Blasts entry. Each time the kineticist uses one of her kinetic blast wild talents, she can apply up to one associated form infusion and up to one associated substance infusion.

Some infusions change the action required to activate a kinetic blast or entirely transform the kinetic blast's normal effects.

The burn cost listed in each infusion's Burn entry is added to the burn cost of the kinetic blast the infusion modifies.

The DC for a save against an infusion is based on the associated kinetic blast's effective spell level, not the level of the infusion. The DCs for form infusions are calculated using the kineticist's Dexterity modifier instead of her Constitution modifier. When a kineticist modifies a kinetic blast with a form infusion and a substance infusion that both require saving throws, each target first attempts a saving throw against the form infusion. If a target succeeds and a successful save negates the infusion's effects, the entire kinetic blast is negated; otherwise, the target then attempts a saving throw against the substance infusion. If a kineticist's form and substance infusions both alter the kinetic blast's damage, apply the substance infusion's alteration first.

At 5th, 11th, and 17th levels, a kineticist can replace one of her infusions with another infusion of the same effective spell level or lower. She can't replace an infusion that she used to qualify for another of her wild talents.

Kinetic Blade:
Element(s) universal; Type form infusion; Level 1; Burn 1

Associated Blasts any

Saving Throw none

You form a weapon using your kinetic abilities. You create a nonreach, light or one-handed weapon in your hand formed of pure energy or elemental matter. (If you're a telekineticist, you instead transfer the power of your kinetic blast to any object held in one hand.) The kinetic blade's shape is purely cosmetic and doesn't affect the damage dice, critical threat range, or critical multiplier of the kinetic blade, nor does it grant the kinetic blade any weapon special features. The object held by a telekineticist for this form infusion doesn't prevent her from using gather power.

You can use this form infusion once as part of an attack action, a charge action, or a full-attack action in order to make melee attacks with your kinetic blade. Since it's part of another action (and isn't an action itself), using this wild talent doesn't provoke any additional attacks of opportunity. The kinetic blade deals your kinetic blast damage on each hit (applying any modifiers to your kinetic blast's damage as normal, but not your Strength modifier). The blade disappears at the end of your turn. The weapon deals the same damage type that your kinetic blast deals, and it interacts with Armor Class and spell resistance as normal for a blast of its type. Even if a telekineticist uses this power on a magic weapon or another unusual object, the attack doesn't use any of the magic weapon's bonuses or effects and simply deals the telekineticist's blast damage. The kinetic blade doesn't add the damage bonus from elemental overflow.

I think the main argument against being able to use a kinetic blast when raging is that it's a spell-like ability, and therefore functions as if it was a spell. However there's two possible counter-arguments here: that the use of a kinetic blast is instinctive and natural, and that the use of kinetic blade bypasses kinetic blast.

First, one could reason that firing off a kinetic blast - or using any spell-like ability, for that matter - is an action that's performed as organically as drawing a sword or charging at a foe and requires no more concentration or focus than either of those. There's no verbal or somatic motions that are actually required, and one doesn't need to have a focus to channel that elemental energy through or material components to draw it from; the energy for a kinetic blast just appears in their free hand for them to lob at a foe as a ranged attack. If you look at the closest analog to a kineticist in other media - Avatar style bending - you see that pretty much any act of bending is done as a natural part of fighting. Benders don't use their elements as magical spells, they use them as weapons, as extensions of themselves. Kineticists, IMO, are no different than their assumed inspiration; kinetic blasts are their weapons. If this wasn't the case we'd have never had the confusion of whether kinetic blasts incur the ranged-weapon-thrown-into-melee penalty. The only kinetic blast I can think of that might break this, specifically, is Telekinetic Blast, as it requires loose objects around a fighter to be used, and even then it requires little concentration if any to just telekinetically fling a random piece of loose anything toward a foe.

But let's humor the possibility that all spell-like abilities require some level of concentration, and therefor can't be used while raging. This brings me to my second argument: using the kinetic blade infusion does not actually require the use of the kinetic blast ability. In most cases, you're still performing the kinetic blast ability with a form infusion, but if you read the rules of the kinetic blade, you see that rather than using it as a part of the kinetic blast ability, it's used as part of an attack action, charge, or full-attack action. Now, do attack actions, charges, and full-attack actions require concentration or patience? Because if so that'd make barbarians and bloodragers pretty useless wouldn't it? And keep in mind that infusions are a supernatural power, not a spell-like ability, so if you're specifically calling out spell-like abilities, this completely circumvents that. And there's several supernatural abilities that are used specifically as a part of one's rage or bloodrage, so clearly supernatural abilities are not barred from use completely.

And even in the event that literally anything that isn't just a passive ability, an attack, or a rage ability is barred from use mid-rage, what exactly stops me from first using my infusion, THEN activating bloodrage, THEN using the energy weapon already in-hand to attack, THEN dismissing the rage at the end of the round? At worst, this means I'd only be able to attack in this manner every three rounds (one for the actual maneuver and two spent recovering from the associated fatigue), and only as many times as I have rounds of rage available (which at 4th level Barbarian/Bloodrager is going to be 10 plus Con mod). And in those fatigue recovery rounds, nothing is stopping the Kineticist from acting as normal, simply using their kinetic blast while incurring the fatigue penalty. This basically turns rage into a temporary 2 damage boost to a kinetic blade plus whatever other bonuses Rage happens to grant.

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