Mastering the Elements: N. Jolly's guide to the Pathfinder Kineticist


Advice

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But if you're going to make it a utility talent, specify things like "until the next time you recover burn" and reduce the cost of the utility to 1 or maybe 2. Because 5 burn that can't be reduced in any way except buffer is way too costly for this. Infusion specialization is for infusions, it doesn't apply to utility talents ever.

I've been ninjad. Okay, looks much better.


Shiroi wrote:

But if you're going to make it a utility talent, specify things like "until the next time you recover burn" and reduce the cost of the utility to 1 or maybe 2. Because 5 burn that can't be reduced in any way except buffer is way too costly for this. Infusion specialization is for infusions, it doesn't apply to utility talents ever.

I've been ninjad. Okay, looks much better.

Ya I did include the "till you recover burn" clause...I'm going to reduce the burn to 1. At 8th level when she get's it...that's 24 HP dmg by itself.


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No problem, nighttree! That's what we're here for... to help aide the cause of kineticists everywhere!

I think 2 Burn would be an acceptable amount of Burn given the level and benefit you gain. And yes, this class is very number crunch-heavy, but I love it!


Might want to have another look at Illusory Duplicates. Duplicates destroyed regenerate at a rate of 1 every 5 minutes.

And then: If you accept 3 or more burn they instead regenerate at a rate of 1 every 5 minutes.

I feel like something is off there. Is the time supposed to change? Or how many reform? If this has been stated/asked earlier... sorry.

Silver Crusade

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wynterknight wrote:

Speaking of Spheres Of Power, I thought it had a number of interesting things that could be ported over to the kineticist in general and the aetherkineticist in particular. Divided Mind especially opens up a lot of cool options, but Dancing Weapons lets you use melee weapons at a distance, and Quick Catch gives you the ability to use your telekinesis reactively. Some of these things feel like they could be implemented as utility talents, but many are balanced by the use of spell points, which are much less punitive than burn.

I'm actually sort of torn now between kineticist and SoP symbiat focusing on telekinesis; SoP telekinesis offers interesting options (plus the ability to branch out into other spheres), but certain things (blasting and maneuvers, primarily) are much less effective than what the kineticist offers.

I find that I'm in a similar boat; I love the mechanics of the Kineticist (as well as telekinetic Disable Device being *much* less costly to gain), but I can never ignore how much more flexible SoP is. However, I know they're expanding with handbooks; Destruction is actually in the works right now, and (via Patreon) I'm super excited about it :3

One of the key things? The writer has set up a point-buy system to construct your own blasts. So, you want to be a telekinetic blaster? Fine. Take the Force Blast talent, but each time you buy another talent from Destruction, you can use the build-a-blast chart to say "OK, this does force damage, costs 1 spell point, and instead of knocking prone, it attempts a combat maneuver: disarm." Now you have good blasting capability, but also sort of a trick shot feel to it.

Or switch it out for Bull Rush, or Immobile, or whatever you want, really. There's actually an archetype for the Mageknight that essentially uses a blast form like whips, and can do CMB with them.

I wanted to post a link to the doc (recently they decided to let the writers post on other forums and such with the playtests), but I wasn't sure if that'd be kosher for *me* to do it. I think I've seen it floating around these forums though.

Also, there's a telekinetic handbook already out. It doesn't give it much in the way of blasting, but it does add some *super* nifty things for a pure Telekinetic :3


Y'know, I've been thinking: it would be nice if you could just give Ranged Blast for the Elemental Ascetic... just to have the "perfect" Kineticist Monk :P

OK, I really need to ask... If you designed Kineticist of Porphyra, then why are some of your very own materials in red in your own guide?

Might as well try to fix Intellectual Control, Psychological Burn, Delayed Utility Wild Talent and Kinetic Assault then.

(Seriously, while it might not be intended, you're technically bashing your own stuff, because their mecanics suck. How about discussing here what we could do to make them better yet balanced?)

Silver Crusade

Xelaaredn wrote:

Might want to have another look at Illusory Duplicates. Duplicates destroyed regenerate at a rate of 1 every 5 minutes.

And then: If you accept 3 or more burn they instead regenerate at a rate of 1 every 5 minutes.

I feel like something is off there. Is the time supposed to change? Or how many reform? If this has been stated/asked earlier... sorry.

That's a typo, I'll probably see about getting it changed later. That second line shouldn't be there, originally it took 10 minutes to reform with it being cut down to 5 minutes if you had 3 or more clones. Now it's just 5 to start with, so there's no reduction. Thanks for the mention though, I'll talk about getting this updated.

JiCi wrote:

Y'know, I've been thinking: it would be nice if you could just give Ranged Blast for the Elemental Ascetic... just to have the "perfect" Kineticist Monk :P

OK, I really need to ask... If you designed Kineticist of Porphyra, then why are some of your very own materials in red in your own guide?

Might as well try to fix Intellectual Control, Psychological Burn, Delayed Utility Wild Talent and Kinetic Assault then.

(Seriously, while it might not be intended, you're technically bashing your own stuff, because their mecanics suck. How about discussing here what we could do to make them better yet balanced?)

As was stated before, I'm not rating my own material. I was told it would be a 'gross misuse of my power.' Instead, Texas Snyper and The Mortonator are doing the reviews for my content so that my own bias doesn't bleed into the ratings.

Also, I honestly don't think any of those need balancing any further than they are. As was talked about with Mark, there's a give and take in things, and Delayed Utility Wild Talent is necessary to keep Universal Focus from being overpowered. Really it's to keep the entire elemental avatar archetype from being overpowered.

There's just certain options that need to be balanced against certain things, so red in archetypes is there to help balance out blue and purple so that the entire thing isn't overpowered. I wasn't looking to make things that were blatantly more powerful than the base class, but actually fit in relatively well with the power of options that had come before it.

I mean I myself don't consider Intellectual Control or Psychological Burn red (I'd say they're orange), but for archetypes sometimes you need some red to make sure that the entire thing doesn't turn out purple. Having an archetype be purple (especially if no other one already is) to me is a failure of design, it's making something that's blatantly more powerful and unbalancing.

There's also a reason for red/orange in thematic value. An option may be red (even to me) but have an important thematic place in the class. Far be it for me to avoid including something like that if it fits the theme of the guide.


With Elemental Scion... You can increase the damage of one of your simple blasts a step, if you do that with a single blast element like earth... Whne you get the composite at 7th does it increase a step as well? Seems like it should jump to (using earth/metal as an example) 2d8 seeing as the base is now doing 1d8.

Or is it just meant to make the base stronger as a helpful thing for early levels?


Also, with Elemental Scion, time, and suspended impact... If one were to increase the base to 1d6 rather than the 1d4, would the added damage from delaying the blast increase by 1d4 each round still, or go up to a 1d6?

I'd assume if that were the case you would have just said it does an additional dice of damage. But again, just looking around a nit-picking a bit. (Finally actually got the book/PDF). There was something else I saw that I was going to ask about but I can remember presently.

Edit: Basic Vibrokinesis, gives you a +2 bonus in sing checks... But nothing to bluff/disguise? If you can sound like anyone you want that seems like something g that should get you a bonus (at least to disguise).

Silver Crusade

@Xelaaredn

1. Nope, it doesn't increase when you get the composite, you're right that it was mostly to be helpful early levels, a slight boost to help make going solo that much more appealing an option. I'd say Scion's the best archetype if you know you won't hit 7th level, since it's a straight upgrade then.

2. For suspended impact, I would say the die goes up with elemental scion. The implication there was that your blast would only be doing 1d4, so at 1st level with elemental scion it would do 1d6, and at 15th it would do 1d8 for each round suspended.

3. For basic vibro, I wasn't thinking too hard on it, the sing bonus was just an add in. I don't think it'd be too strong to have it give a bonus to bluff or disguise myself, so feel free to use it like that as well.

If you've picked up KOP, feel free to leave a review, let me know how I did and such. I'm talking about a possible follow up to the book later, something smaller but still fun with some ideas I had left over.


Sure is difficult to wade through this with all the 3rd party stuff added. I realize it would have been extra work, but separate threads would have been nice. I am an admitted Paizo-purist.
Sound element is stepping on the Bard's licks, man! Sound should remain dominated by the Bard (see the nice list of sonic spells on the Bard spell list as well as the Sound Striker archetype...), thank you very much.


Fourshadow wrote:

Sure is difficult to wade through this with all the 3rd party stuff added. I realize it would have been extra work, but separate threads would have been nice. I am an admitted Paizo-purist.

Sound element is stepping on the Bard's licks, man! Sound should remain dominated by the Bard (see the nice list of sonic spells on the Bard spell list as well as the Sound Striker archetype...), thank you very much.

That is why it is under Advice instead of the Rules/General Discussion. Many times the forum is indication of what you can expect to see in the thread. Advice is commonly filled with 3pp and house rules.

Silver Crusade

Fourshadow wrote:

Sure is difficult to wade through this with all the 3rd party stuff added. I realize it would have been extra work, but separate threads would have been nice. I am an admitted Paizo-purist.

Sound element is stepping on the Bard's licks, man! Sound should remain dominated by the Bard (see the nice list of sonic spells on the Bard spell list as well as the Sound Striker archetype...), thank you very much.

I actually agree that a lot of this chatter should have been in another thread, but as you've seen, I have very little control of what goes on in this thread, as it's become more of a Kineticist hub more than anything.

And yeah sound is, but that was kind of its point. I like it as the loud and showy element, something with a lot of fun to it. Personally, I think sonic energy is criminally underused, and I don't even think Bards dominate sound since they're given so little to work with. There's like maybe 10 sonic spells on their list out of a massive list and Sound Striker is only one archetype, which makes me wish that Bards had MORE sonic in their life.

Sonic is super powerful since it's basically untyped for how little it's resisted, but I think that just means it should be included in the elemental system more instead of left on the outside like it currently is.


Did you see the FAQ for the Sound Striker? Makes Weirdwords much simpler and Sonic energy rather than the original Slashing/Piercing/Bludgeoning! Not much sonic resistance going around, so Sound Striker is my favorite archetype for my favorite class.
Yes, there could be and should be more sonic spells on the bard spell list, but it is significantly better in that respect than it was (a lot of them came from the APG--still possibly my fav hardback book).
Of course, now I have added to the distraction/chatter that clutters this thread. Mea culpa.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Just a quick question-if you were going to build a kineticist that sticks with only b one element the whole way through, what would you pick?

Liberty's Edge

Fire, of course.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Why? Jw

Liberty's Edge

The Fire Composite blast really packs a punch, and there are some "abilities" that lets you ignore, at least partially, fire resistance.

And also looks "Cool". Never wanted to be the Human Torch?


Plus, Fire has "ignore death" as a utility wild talent.


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Azten wrote:
Plus, Fire has "ignore death" as a utility wild talent.

If you ignore her long enough, sometimes she learns her lesson and just goes away.

Designer

As a heads-up, N. Jolly is right that 3pp advice should be in a separate thread. It actually has it's own subforum, so I am debating what to do about that vis-a-vis the number of posts here; moving forward (since I don't know if I can do it retroactively or how much work that would be), it would be best to separate the threads out, or I can alternatively move this thread to 3pp advice if people would prefer that option.

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
As a heads-up, N. Jolly is right that 3pp advice should be in a separate thread. It actually has it's own subforum, so I am debating what to do about that vis-a-vis the number of posts here; moving forward (since I don't know if I can do it retroactively or how much work that would be), it would be best to separate the threads out, or I can alternatively move this thread to 3pp advice if people would prefer that option.

Yeah, figured that was the case. For those of you who want to discuss Kineticist of Porphyra, please go to this thread to do so.

Mark, a question here, is discussing the ratings of KOP kosher here? I feel like that pertains to the guide itself, but I don't want to have this massive thread go anymore off the rails than it already has, so I'd rather get a clear answer on that.

As an aside, I did not know how to do 'ooc' before now, good to know.

Corsario wrote:

The Fire Composite blast really packs a punch, and there are some "abilities" that lets you ignore, at least partially, fire resistance.

And also looks "Cool". Never wanted to be the Human Torch?

Fire and Earth are both AMAZING solo elements, having enough infusions to make sure they can always pick up something fun as well as a great variety of utility wild talents.

Designer

N. Jolly wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
As a heads-up, N. Jolly is right that 3pp advice should be in a separate thread. It actually has it's own subforum, so I am debating what to do about that vis-a-vis the number of posts here; moving forward (since I don't know if I can do it retroactively or how much work that would be), it would be best to separate the threads out, or I can alternatively move this thread to 3pp advice if people would prefer that option.

Yeah, figured that was the case. For those of you who want to discuss Kineticist of Porphyra, please go to this thread to do so.

Mark, a question here, is discussing the ratings of KOP kosher here? I feel like that pertains to the guide itself, but I don't want to have this massive thread go anymore off the rails than it already has, so I'd rather get a clear answer on that.

Now that the guide has expanded to include 3pp material, in its totality it's a 3pp guide (3pp guides by necessity will include options from non-3pp stuff too, even if just basic items, skills, feats, races, etc, though in this case it has more), so in that regard, it would make sense to move the whole thing to 3pp advice and then keep the KoP stuff. Branching off a new thread that was like "N. Jolly's Guide to the Kineticist (Kineticists of Porphyra section by Texas Snyper and The Mortonator" and putting it in 3pp advice is also a solid option, and it's nice to have a thread in each subforum so more people can find them, but as you mentioned above, it could be hard to make sure the topics don't bleed.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

See I was thinking water or air, as then you'd have both bludgeoning and cold damage

Designer

2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
See I was thinking water or air, as then you'd have both bludgeoning and cold damage

They also work well mono, or even together for a storm kineticist. Aether on its lonesome makes a really nice troubleshooter character, though it doesn't have the nova potential of aether with two other expanded elements. Really, you can make a variety of great mono element kineticists with any of the five elements in OA (not as much wood and void because the space available means you have fairly few options mono).

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
Now that the guide has expanded to include 3pp material, in its totality it's a 3pp guide (3pp guides by necessity will include options from non-3pp stuff too, even if just basic items, skills, feats, races, etc, though in this case it has more), so in that regard, it would make sense to move the whole thing to 3pp advice and then keep the KoP stuff. Branching off a new thread that was like "N. Jolly's Guide to the Kineticist (Kineticists of Porphyra section by Texas Snyper and The Mortonator" and putting it in 3pp advice is also a solid option, and it's nice to have a thread in each subforum so more people can find them, but as you mentioned above, it could be hard to make sure the topics don't bleed.

I have actually seen other guides include 3P that haven't been swapped, and it's still based on an official class. Although I will admit the scope of what KOP has added is a bit larger than what other guides have included.

If it needs moved, QSS. It's still entirely serviceable as a non 3p guide, as none of the 3P options are being included in the base assumption of the class (none of the Paizo section of the guide references the 3P to make sure that people who don't want to include it aren't being forced to consider it), so whatever's decided works for me. If a second thread is what it needs for KOP based options, I can make that and point people towards it when KOP stuff comes up.

I'm just a humble and physically attractive guide writer, so I'm willing to go with the flow here. Whatever works best for the board works for me.

2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
See I was thinking water or air, as then you'd have both bludgeoning and cold damage

Air can be okay, it does get a few decent things and a nice composite, but I wouldn't solo water. Air's combination of bludgeoning and electric damage combined with its utility wild talents makes it a decent solo, but not as good as fire or earth which get AMAZING composites for soloing.

Designer

N. Jolly wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Now that the guide has expanded to include 3pp material, in its totality it's a 3pp guide (3pp guides by necessity will include options from non-3pp stuff too, even if just basic items, skills, feats, races, etc, though in this case it has more), so in that regard, it would make sense to move the whole thing to 3pp advice and then keep the KoP stuff. Branching off a new thread that was like "N. Jolly's Guide to the Kineticist (Kineticists of Porphyra section by Texas Snyper and The Mortonator" and putting it in 3pp advice is also a solid option, and it's nice to have a thread in each subforum so more people can find them, but as you mentioned above, it could be hard to make sure the topics don't bleed.

I have actually seen other guides include 3P that haven't been swapped, and it's still based on an official class. Although I will admit the scope of what KOP has added is a bit larger than what other guides have included.

If it needs moved, QSS. It's still entirely serviceable as a non 3p guide, as none of the 3P options are being included in the base assumption of the class (none of the Paizo section of the guide references the 3P to make sure that people who don't want to include it aren't being forced to consider it), so whatever's decided works for me. If a second thread is what it needs for KOP based options, I can make that and point people towards it when KOP stuff comes up.

Yep, the way you have it set up in the guide seems to me like there's no reason this thread would need to be moved if it was just about the Paizo section and the discussion of the other section gets its own thread. As the OP, I figured I'd see which you preferred (and we can revisit that option if it isn't working).

Silver Crusade

Mark Seifter wrote:
Yep, the way you have it set up in the guide seems to me like there's no reason this thread would need to be moved if it was just about the Paizo section and the discussion of the other section gets its own thread. As the OP, I figured I'd see which you preferred (and we can revisit that option if it isn't working).

I like to accommodate my readers as best that I can, and knowing that people like fourshadow read my guide lets me know that keeping options as separated as possible to make sure that people can enjoy it without needing any other options. I suppose I can use the KOP thread I just made for the discussion of the guide and it's ratings, I'll be sure to point people to it if it's brought up in this thread.

Personally I hope we can keep it as two threads so that there isn't too much bleeding over, since I think both sections deserve their own discussion.

So again, if anyone wants to discuss KOP options or their placement in the guide, please go to the KOP discussion thread as this thread will be solely for the 1st party discussion of options which will be completely divorced from any 3rd party content.

EDIT: Would it be possible to include the disclaimer and thread link in the original post? Just to make sure anyone who just checked the first post would be aware about where to discuss different material.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

It's funny, I was expecting earth and fire to be the worst, as you don't have any other form of attack (no touch AC hit for earth, always subject to SR for fire.

Guess I need to look into infusions more. Weekdays wrong with solo on water? Was the one I was looking at.

Designer

2ndGenerationCleric wrote:

It's funny, I was expecting earth and fire to be the worst, as you don't have any other form of attack (no touch AC hit for earth, always subject to SR for fire.

Guess I need to look into infusions more. Weekdays wrong with solo on water? Was the one I was looking at.

Mono water can potentially be less useful if you don't have water very often in your game, since some of its sickest utilities involve water.

Silver Crusade

2ndGenerationCleric wrote:

It's funny, I was expecting earth and fire to be the worst, as you don't have any other form of attack (no touch AC hit for earth, always subject to SR for fire.

Guess I need to look into infusions more. Weekdays wrong with solo on water? Was the one I was looking at.

The reason Earth is the best solo is because while you are synced into 1 type of blast (physical), you get all three damage types no matter what so you can always use the best one for the job. Metal Blast is just AMAZING considering it has great damage and such. Earth's utility wild talents don't dry up either, making for a very nice curve of abilities.


Speaking of first party materials while I have Mark here on the subject... I posed some questions about the pushing/pulling infusions and how they work in various oddball situations. Care to weigh in?

Pushing someone *up* with snaking infusion hitting from below, whether on the ground (does it have that level of control to specify hitting from near the ground, or must I have a space beneath them as if in case of a flying target to do that?) or in the air.

A much easier to do "pulling upwards" with a snaking or singularity infusion, or from a kineticist being airborne above a target?

A pulling or pushing infusion and cliff edges or harmful terrain?

A pushing or pulling infusion and a Wall form or mobile blast to push or pull them into?

A pushing or pulling infusion and a solid object to shove them into?

A pulling singularity infusion to hold someone in the air for three rounds on the wrong side of a cliff as they beg for their life?

A throwing infusion paused mid throw to do the same?

A mobile blast with pushing or pulling infusion doing anything at all?

A wall blast with pulling infusion forcing the damage for crossing the wall by pulling them through itself, which must of necessity occur after having dealt damage for them being adjacent before it pulled them?

Does being pushed away by a pushing wall end your turn or end your movement? If not, could you then be subject to the wall again?

Can you shape a wall infusion at all, or must it be a flat plane?

If you had a shaped wall or two walls facing correctly and both had pushing (or back to back pulling) could they damage loop as long as you failed your saves?

Gravity Master to "drop" them into a wall, especially a pushing wall which would toss them back "up" at gravity master to be dropped into it again?

Gravity Master downwards does nothing, or makes things heavier (possible interaction with flying foes, or weight carry issues for everyone?)

Can a gravity master who flies upwards with no breath and repeatedly uses gravity master on top of itself juggle someone out into space and leave them there?

Could two if they alternated efforts, given that I suspect the target would fall between castings of an individual?

How does a pushing singularity work? I believe pulling is towards the center, I assume pushing is directly away? Is that the same for mobile blast?

Can I get confirmation on the intent (raw or not, I know you can't "faq/errata answer" these) of these abilities and their interactions?

I'm making a character I rather like the concept of, who can move a lot of people very efficiently. Maybe not much else, but he definitely does that.

Oh, and can I get any confirmation on whether the push/pull is limited by 5' + 5' for every 5 by which you exceed their CMD? This is a common clause for most spells, but most spells don't kill their caster so I need to be sure how the trade works.

I appreciate the input! Loving the class as always.

Silver Crusade

@Shiroi

[sarcasm]Am I going to need to link ANOTHER FAQ post?[/sarcasm]


Did I miss a faq post? *goes back and checks thread*

Silver Crusade

Shiroi wrote:
Did I miss a faq post? *goes back and checks thread*

Nah, I only have the three, I'm just teasing you about how many questions you have up there. It'll be nice to get some clarification on them though, I doubt it'll change any ratings.


Three? Maybe I am missing faq posts. Lol

But yes, this kind of questioning would be nice in the guides faq maybe if you felt inclined.

And yeah, having built him I know he's quite suboptimal. Great battlefield control, but not a major player in damage or other effects. Had to give up feats for darkness infusion even, to get all the different ways I could move people around in there, and still couldn't take many throw at all because of the high level and aether being secondary.

Oh! I forgot one, does the size bonus to CMB from Kinetic Form adjust your blasts' CMB to push/pull/trip someone?

Mover is going to be so much fun to play as, but my party might need to tone down their optimization to keep things fair. Lol


Huh. You don't normally see trip attempts at range. What does bowling infusion do to a flyer? Are you just immune to being tripped while airborne, or does it "snag your wing" and make you fall prone (from a much greater height than normal trips against melee ground opponents)?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Holy cow rare metal infusion is cool


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Is it my imagination, or could I use ride the blast with a metal infusion to pull a T1000 through, say, a cell door? :D


2ndGenerationCleric wrote:
Is it my imagination, or could I use ride the blast with a metal infusion to pull a T1000 through, say, a cell door? :D

As long as you can actually fire through the cell door's bars, I don't see why not. That's more a question of how you flavor your character, honestly. For example, one of the kineticists I've developed actually uses glass, but it's simple a flavored version of earth and sandstorm blasts for him which otherwise function exactly as earth and sandstorm blasts do. So if you want to imagine your version of ride the blast is turning into liquid metal and squishing through the bars, go for it!

Although I will say, if you're using ride the blast for transport rather than a surprise attack, you may be better off using it with earth blast. But again, no reason you can't flavor it as you described.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Oh definitely better off using earth blast to do it. I juust realized I could use metal to do it as the T1000. Though if would be a quick way to activate elemental overflow


Never activate elemental overflow with an attack unless you're trying to kill something. Sink that burn into your defenses or an all day talent like kinetic form instead. Even if the benefits are meager for your build (ranged specialist mono fire) it beats getting *nothing at all* for your damage. I'd rather have high hp and no overflow than to waste burn for no benefit at all just for the overflow. To kill something? Sure. I'll take massive overkill damage on a few guys throughout the day to max my overflow out. To boost my defense and abilities to make myself tougher, compensating for the lack of hp and gaining damage in the process as a bonus? Sure. But just to do obscene damage to an empty square for the sake of activating overflow? That is such a waste of my HP and limited daily burn.

Silver Crusade

Shiroi wrote:
Huh. You don't normally see trip attempts at range. What does bowling infusion do to a flyer? Are you just immune to being tripped while airborne, or does it "snag your wing" and make you fall prone (from a much greater height than normal trips against melee ground opponents)?

I think fliers are just immune to being tripped now, which is a damn shame. Yet another thing taken away from melee.

I do agree that elemental overflow should be powered via defenses or long term buffs, as there's enough of both to make sure that you're topped off. For using burn on blast, I'm a stingy person regarding it, so I doubt I'd do it on a physical blast unless the opponent was a sitting duck. Energy, I'm more likely to go for it since it's basically an auto hit after a certain point.


I got to try Mover last night in a one shot! First time I've actually gotten to be a kineticist! Freaking loved it!

My party was pretty vastly overpowered for the module, a level 10 mixed bag that was actually 3.5 not pathfinder. I didn't notice I had the wrong copy, so I just dealt with the wrong numbers and that may have influenced respective power levels of some things.

The Stonelord Paladin was immune to mundane damage (like he should be) but lacked ranged options to deal with his primary antagonists. The Unchained monk of the four Winds (I made that archetype fit, it wasn't a problem) at least could climb to make himself a more viable target and get some counterattacks. Meanwhile a Mageknight from SOP had similar range issues but created spots of darkness to impare flying, which helped out. A swashbuckling gunslinger was built around melee and ranged in fluid tandem and did really, really well. He mostly stood next to me, because I was a cannon. A really, really powerful cannon. I attracted a lot of attention for his attacks of opportunity.

I had the lowest AC of the party, but never took a real scratch because of my Aether shield (4 burn to fill up overflow, and lost no health at all because of the +2 con and all the temp HP). I forgot it the first time and took an on hit fear effect I should have shrugged off like a sir. I did mess up my damage, I applied infusion specialization to my Metakinesis to get both empower and maximize for a move/standard combo. This happened like 3 times, so I should have taken my max 10 burn by the end of the day. Given that it wouldn't have affected my damage or to hit, that I forgot to add overflow to damage and to hit, that I wouldn't have taken past max burn or dropped myself from over burn anyways, and that I never actually took a hit for it to matter... yeah. I worked it out to be +60 damage over 3 turns on the boss, but should have gotten +9 of that back from adding overflow.

First session problems, but that's okay. I seemed to be doing just fine without it, averaging 40+ damage per round with a good accuracy even on a physical blast each round using just empower. Not quite 60 when I glitched and did my maximize. Nobody else in the party could offload near that, averaging like 20-30 for a melee full attack. Granted they were better defended than I was, and maybe even more rounded as characters, but since damage wasn't the specialization I was going for I'm very surprised I managed it so well.

And so many people complained the kineticist didn't do enough damage during the playtest. Lol


Man, that's got me so pumped to play my telekineticist now. I can't wait for my next game.

How much did you play the maneuver/moving angle as opposed to straight blasting? How effective was it?


Not very, it was played at level 10 so with a move gather and two infusion specialization I could get to a 15' push if I wanted... but my opponents were 50' fly speed flyby attack builds to whom it wouldn't matter, and a size huge thing that parked itself next to a bridge where I wanted it to be anyways. I could only get to that 15' move if I didn't add a form infusion. In a melee game using extended and pushing 10' I could have done a lot to make enemies provoke and stop them from making full attacks on allies, but the scenario favored empower and snaking by a lot.

Next level I'd gain 2 from a move burn, and had one more specialization I think. That would let me push 15' on a snaking, which opens up my range and ability to effectively make use of pushing in a single round by a *lot*. Even then, it would be mostly useful against melee, or slower flyers who don't use charge and flyby tactics as heavily.

Designer

Shiroi wrote:

Not very, it was played at level 10 so with a move gather and two infusion specialization I could get to a 15' push if I wanted... but my opponents were 50' fly speed flyby attack builds to whom it wouldn't matter, and a size huge thing that parked itself next to a bridge where I wanted it to be anyways. I could only get to that 15' move if I didn't add a form infusion. In a melee game using extended and pushing 10' I could have done a lot to make enemies provoke and stop them from making full attacks on allies, but the scenario favored empower and snaking by a lot.

Next level I'd gain 2 from a move burn, and had one more specialization I think. That would let me push 15' on a snaking, which opens up my range and ability to effectively make use of pushing in a single round by a *lot*. Even then, it would be mostly useful against melee, or slower flyers who don't use charge and flyby tactics as heavily.

One fun thing to do against melee flyby with pushing is to ready an action to pushing infusion blast them during their flyby. Depending on their positioning, this likely prevents them from moving as far away as they want (frex, 50 foot fliers at 25 feet out fly 25 feet forward, get pushed back 15 feet, and now have to fly 15 more feet to reach melee and can't retreat more than 10 feet). Granted, assuming that you push for the maximum on a max 15 pushing is assuming a lot. Another fun thing to do is push fliers downwards from where they want to be, since flying up costs double, so 15 feet is really costly.


Mark Seifter wrote:
Another fun thing to do is push fliers downwards from where they want to be, since flying up costs double, so 15 feet is really costly.

you'd need the snake infusion or be above them to do this right?

Designer

Chess Pwn wrote:
Mark Seifter wrote:
Another fun thing to do is push fliers downwards from where they want to be, since flying up costs double, so 15 feet is really costly.
you'd need the snake infusion or be above them to do this right?

Not only that, but if you're not above them and they're melee, they have no need to fly up the 15 feet again.

Silver Crusade

So Mark, do size bonuses from Kinetic Form provide bonuses on the trip and other CMD checks?

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