PaizoCon Spoilers

[Garrett Guillotte]

Aratrok wrote:

Quote:

The scope of this effect increases with level, so you might be famous in Hell's Kitchen at low levels and across an entire city district or city at high levels. Might be class abilities that let you move this effect around temporarily.

That gives me pause for concern that the scope on this class is going to be too small. First level being a district is fine- but by the high end of this you should be known to the world or the multiverse. That'd be like if Superman was only known in Metropolis.

That came up in the workshop, and to stress we were working on a pretty early build with a focus on brainstorming the specializations. There were good ideas tossed around, like being able to activate that ability in other places temporarily with the implication that your legend might be known elsewhere, but the fear associated with that ability isn't as immediate in other places until people there know you're around. Everybody in New York knows who Jack the Ripper is, but they're not afraid of him... until someone shows up vivisected in the streets of Manhattan.

Even all those proverbial Wiscrani villains fearing that Batfiend nutjob skulking around the shadows don't worry much about the all-powerful 20th-level mythic divine vigilante of Sarenrae flying around Absalom, until the local criers report a story by the famously bespectacled chronicler Clarek el-Kent announcing that the Superhuman was last seen on his way to town.

[Blackwaltzomega]

Hm. Low-level tools that help mess up scrying and the like, huh?

Hot damn, a reason for rogues, slayers and investigators to be solving crimes and tracking people beyond "the local wizards are lazy buttheads who won't take ten minutes out of their day to just tell you where the people you're looking for live and are doing right now."

[Elrawien Lantherion]

What new races were announced?

[Swashbucklersdc]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Yeah, if it wasn't clear, the new dark folk type is a playable 0 HD race. No details past that.

That is awesome! Dark Folk rule!

[Garrett Guillotte]

VM mercenario wrote:

That is what playtests are for. Hopefully we get Mark Seifter on charge of the playtest, I liked him on the Kineticist playtest.

Mark was in the workshop, as was Jason Bulmahn, Stephen Radney-MacFarland, and Logan Bonner. All the designers were giving feedback and bouncing ideas off the class along with the rest of us. There were things being crossed off and added to the class throughout the session, so as I mentioned, pretty much everything I wrote is still in flux and may already be tossed or changed.

[Garrett Guillotte]

Elrawien Lantherion wrote:

What new races were announced?

The only ones I remember hearing about were the sasquatch-like race (which IIRC wasn't called "sasquatch") and the new dark folk type. There should be more in B5 at the very least, but those are the only two I remember.

[Elrawien Lantherion]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Elrawien Lantherion wrote:

What new races were announced?

The only ones I remember hearing about was the sasquatch-like race (which IIRC wasn't called "sasquatch") and the new dark folk type. There should be more in B5 at the very least, but those are the only two I remember.

That is funny, a squatch running around.

Thanks for the info!

[Garrett Guillotte]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Aratrok wrote:

Quote:

The scope of this effect increases with level, so you might be famous in Hell's Kitchen at low levels and across an entire city district or city at high levels. Might be class abilities that let you move this effect around temporarily.

That gives me pause for concern that the scope on this class is going to be too small. First level being a district is fine- but by the high end of this you should be known to the world or the multiverse. That'd be like if Superman was only known in Metropolis.

That came up in the workshop, and to stress we were working on a pretty early build with a focus on brainstorming the specializations. ...

Also worth noting: they weren't implementing things like the influence rules in Ultimate Intrigue yet because those aren't out yet either. Some of the vigilante's abilities will likely integrate those rules when they're ready since they share the same book. Not sure if that'll be part of the playtest; they weren't part of the workshop.

[Entryhazard]

Ciaran Barnes wrote:

DrSwordopolis wrote:

Entirely new base class. Has 2 modes, so you can be "Lawful Neutral by day and Chaotic Neutral by night. Scant few other details.

I've been watching the Daredevil TV show, and that is sounding very... Dardevily.

Gotta VMC Oracle for that vision curse

[Skeld]

BigDTBone wrote:

All I can say, is I hope we get a new official stat block for Blackjack.

I had the exact same thought when I first heard about a Vigilante class.

-Skeld

[Dragon78]

I am sure there are more 0HD races in B5 but they might be reprints from other books.

[Albatoonoe]

Man, That vigilante sounds like it's going to open up a lot of character concepts. Like the helpless old man that is secretly the villainous mage. I like it.

[Blackwaltzomega]

I do wonder if it's going to cause problems for a party when three people don't have secret identities and one of them does, though.

You can't hang out with full-time superheroes as Bruce Wayne, and it's kinda inconvenient for the party if they have to keep up this charade that they don't know you in one mode if the Vigilante's operating as part of a party.

[Dragon78]

This class sounds more useful in a city based campaign or a modern setting.

[DankeSean]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Lots of jokes that the iconic vigilante will be one of the existing iconics in a costume, but that obviously won't be the case, right? *wink*

Bonus points if it's Valeros with a little dinky domino mask and otherwise just wearing his normal adventuring outfit.

[Blackwaltzomega]

I'll be disappointed if there isn't some joke about wearing an eyes-slot wondrous item making Vigilantes unrecognizable.

[RAdeMorris]

Skeld wrote:

... Wrath of the Corrupt or Rise of the Runelords with Revenge of the Runelords and so on...

D'oh. Now I want a Wrath of the Runelords.

[TriOmegaZero]

Blackwaltzomega wrote:

I do wonder if it's going to cause problems for a party when three people don't have secret identities and one of them does, though.

Yeah, we brought up the idea of an ability to extend the anonymous nature of the character to his companions, in between cracking jokes about the Gold Baron beating up poor folk. "Channel to heal rich/harm poor" was my favorite joke.

[Duiker]

I imagine that the party would normally be in on the secret identity.

Also, I'm kind of rooting for the vigilante iconic to end up being the Red Raven.

[Ambrosia Slaad]

Garrett Guillotte wrote:

Inner Sea Races is following the Inner Sea Gods model of giving lots of background and collating and expanding on a lot of content scattered across previous releases. Lots of ethnicities as well, including what it means to be Varisian, Garundi, etc., which can potentially extend to non-humans of those ethnicities...

Right now, this is the absolute #1 thing I want from Inner Sea Races: definitive bits of setting info to move the non-human races away from the current near mono-cultures each currently has.

[Garrett Guillotte]

Duiker wrote:

I imagine that the party would normally be in on the secret identity.

Also, I'm kind of rooting for the vigilante iconic to end up being the Red Raven.

I'm betting on the Midnight Maiden.

[Cpt_kirstov]

Skeld wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

All I can say, is I hope we get a new official stat block for Blackjack.

I had the exact same thought when I first heard about a Vigilante class.

-Skeld

which blackjack?

[Deadmanwalking]

Cpt_kirstov wrote:

Skeld wrote:

BigDTBone wrote:

All I can say, is I hope we get a new official stat block for Blackjack.

I had the exact same thought when I first heard about a Vigilante class.

-Skeld

which blackjack?

Presumably the one from the Guide to Korvosa and Curse of the Crimson Throne. He's very much a masked vigilante with a secret identity who's unique to Golarion after all.

It's possible to do his stats with existing stuff, but not easy.

And I'd bet we get a new person as the Iconic vigilante, rather than anyone who's been mentioned before.

[Arachnofiend]

brad2411 wrote:

I think that Evil vs evil would be just as common on golarion as good vs evil. Evil soceities don't normally work together unless there goals are the same. Way of the Wicked is evil vs good because good had won the wars of good vs evil. Golarion is a much darker place then the setting of way of the wicked.

I wouldn't say that the WotW setting isn't dark; it's a textbook example of Good Is Not Nice. "He's going to get sent to the salt mines" has become a bit of a running gag in the game I'm GM'ing.

[Deadkitten]

So I might get blasphemed for this but, one of my friends brought up a good point:
Does a "superhero" like class like the vigilantee belong in a fantasy RPG?

[Arachnofiend]

Deadkitten wrote:

So I might get blasphemed for this but, one of my friends brought up a good point:

Does a "superhero" like class like the vigilantee belong in a fantasy RPG?

It probably wouldn't fit D&D, but it definitely fits Pathfinder. Everything fits Pathfinder.

[Albatoonoe]

Deadkitten wrote:

So I might get blasphemed for this but, one of my friends brought up a good point:

Does a "superhero" like class like the vigilantee belong in a fantasy RPG?

The "Alter Ego" is much, much older than super heroes. There's plenty of fantasy stories where unassuming characters turn out to be much more powerful (and sometimes more evil) than they appear. Not to mention, the pulp-y roots of pathfinder makes drawing from sources like Zorro (a much easier fit for fantasy) an easy choice.

[DM_aka_Dudemeister]

The scarlet pimpernel!

[Deadmanwalking]

Deadkitten wrote:

So I might get blasphemed for this but, one of my friends brought up a good point:

Does a "superhero" like class like the vigilantee belong in a fantasy RPG?

With super-powers beyond the abilities other PCs have? Probably not.

But the whole 'dual identity' thing? Sure.

As others have noted, that can be used for a host of fantasy tropes, from the Zorro-style pulp adventurer, to a Scarlet Pimpernel style secretive freedom-fighter, to a Jack the Ripper style serial killer. All three of those are more 18th-19th century than properly medieval, but what with the guns and all, plus some of the hints about Occult Adventures, Pathfinder is already drawing on those eras for inspiration. And doing a good job of it.

Heck, there's already the 'Mysterious Avenger' Swashbuckler Archetype, which fits this thematic archetype right down to having a 'Secret Identity' Class Feature.

[The_Superior_Dudemeister]

THE THCARLET PUMPERNICKEL!

[brad2411]

Arachnofiend wrote:

Deadkitten wrote:

So I might get blasphemed for this but, one of my friends brought up a good point:

Does a "superhero" like class like the vigilantee belong in a fantasy RPG?

It probably wouldn't fit D&D, but it definitely fits Pathfinder. Everything fits Pathfinder.

I would say it could fit galt pretty well!

[Albatoonoe]

I'm pretty sure there's at least a few "mysterious knights" with alter egos, but I can't recall any. Still, I hope that alleviates any concerns on how this would fit in Pathfinder.

[chbgraphicarts]

Superman, the first codified "Superhero" appeared in 1939 - a crime-fighting vigilante with an alternate identity. Before him, however, there was:

The Human Bat (1899)

The Scarlet Pimpernel (1905)

Zorro (1919)

Simon Templar, The Saint (1928)

The Shadow (1930)

The Lone Ranger (1933)

The Phantom (1936)

The Green Hornet (1936)

---

So, yeah, the idea of a Pathfinder-defined "Vigilante" existed well before the modern idea of a superhero.

---

Also, the more I read up on what the "Vigilante" is, the more it screams "THE DWEAD PIWATE WOBERTS!!!"

[chbgraphicarts]

Albatoonoe wrote:

I'm pretty sure there's at least a few "mysterious knights" with alter egos, but I can't recall any. Still, I hope that alleviates any concerns on how this would fit in Pathfinder.

Sir Gareth, the Black Knight (even though he was good, he won the Black Knight's armor and thus inherited the title).

Lynnette mistaking him for a kitchen boy (since Gareth had been posing as one in Camelot) was a major plot point in Le Morte d'Arthur.

[OldManJim]

The_Superior_Dudemeister wrote:

THE THCARLET PUMPERNICKEL!

Well now you're just being daffy... :)

The Scarlet Pimpernel would have worked perfectly for my DM-PC. He was a playboy rouge that was the King in our Kingmaker campaign.

A shame Irovetti killed him at the end of book 5.

[OldManJim]

I really hope the Hells X AP's are put on the Realm Works store when it's up & running. It would save a lot of work & be perfect for running 2 entire cities & all the plots / intrigue.

[Legowaffles]

I had an idea for a Gestalt character who would be publicly considered a really good guy. The kind of character even a Paladin would respect (though, probably not always agree with). However, in reality, he'd be an evil bastard who uses linguistics to tell lies, and always manages to tell the truth without being noticed for what he is.

A poor, starving man on the roadside? Companions unwilling to share a little coin? The character would give the poor man some food (if the character had any) as well as 5 GP (far, far more than a commoner would make in a year if memory serves). Asked why, he would say "It was the right thing to do." With absolute honesty.

Effectively, doing/saying things that make people perceive him as a really good guy. In such a scenario, giving the poor man coin and/or food, goes along with the idea. Makes it more unlikely he would ever be pegged for the Villain he is until he was ready for it.

In short, he would be a Villain with Good Publicity. Fun fact: his role model has an image in the linked to page.

Vigilante would seem to be perfect for this character.

[Samy]

I wonder if the Vigilante is one puzzle piece they are putting in place for an eventual Crimson Throne Anniversary Edition...

[Marco Massoudi]

Samy wrote:

I wonder if the Vigilante is one puzzle piece they are putting in place for an eventual Crimson Throne Anniversary Edition...

2012 - Rise of the Runelords Anniversary Edition!

2017 - Curse of the Crimson Throne Anniversary Edition!

I hope so!

[Dragon78]

I still think it is a weird class idea but still can't wait for the playtest.

[Milo v3]

Part of me hopes it doesn't get too tied to a spot... while another part of me sees the opportunity of a Druid/Vigilante hybrid class.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

I went to the art preview. They said no recording devices present so I can saw, OMG THE ART WAS AWESOME!!! but that's all I'm going to say. Know direction was allowed to record the audio, but that's it.

[Dragon78]

Art preview for what Dale McCoy Jr.?

[Samy]

Was anything announced about the dates for PaizoCon 2016?

[Devil's Advocate]

Deadkitten wrote:

So I might get blasphemed for this but, one of my friends brought up a good point:

Does a "superhero" like class like the vigilantee belong in a fantasy RPG?

If Robin Hood doesn't belong in a fantasy RPG, that game is probably not inspired by Medieval Europe.

[Garrett Guillotte]

Samy wrote:

Was anything announced about the dates for PaizoCon 2016?

May 27-30, 2016.

[Erik Mona]

Marco Massoudi wrote:

Is the "Rusty Dragon Inn" Pathfinder Battles set 45 or 51 minis?

45.

Marco Massoudi wrote:

Is the "Bar Case Incentive" the building with walls or is it made up of different pieces like the shown counter and rack?

It is literally the piece shown on the blog. The bar "back" and the actual bar, with shelves and bottles and lots of details. But it's not a whole building or anything, which would be impossible. We tried and tried and tried to get Baba Yaga's Dancing Hut as the case incentive for Reign of Winter, and it simply wasn't feasible.

Marco Massoudi wrote:

If so how many squares is it gonna be?

That's a good question I don't know the answer to.

[Kalindlara]

Not to be a bother, but what was the reason for the Hut being unfeasible? Too much sculpt complexity/paint steps driving up the price?

...because I totally would have paid more to get the Hut, for the record. (I'm already buying a case - I can scrape up another Jackson or two.) Of course, I'm probably in the minority there. ^_^

[chbgraphicarts]

Kalindlara wrote:

Not to be a bother, but what was the reason for the Hut being unfeasible? Too much sculpt complexity/paint steps driving up the price?

...because I totally would have paid more to get the Hut, for the record. (I'm already buying a case - I can scrape up another Jackson or two.) Of course, I'm probably in the minority there. ^_^

Big, fat hut on a pair of literal chicken legs.

"Not feasible" more than likely means "not happening because the laws of physics said 'f~+% you'".

I'll be damned if that thing could stand up under its own weight.

It's possible for something like stop-motion animation, where the main body of the armature is a giant, empty shell, but for a large resin-cast mini those spindly little legs are just gonna give out and bend like Beckham.

[Dale McCoy Jr]

Dragon78 wrote:

Art preview for what Dale McCoy Jr.?

Upcoming Paizo releases. ;)

Seriously though, I saw some images of monsters from Bestiary 5. I had to go "Awwww" to the [redacted] with the [redacted]. Considering the looks I got, I don't think that was the desired response. I think they were expecting something more like, "OMGWTFBBQ!"

Also got to see images of the big bad in Giantslayer. All I gotta say is "DAMN!!!" And some from Hell's Rebels. I saw a helper [redacted].