Rogar Stonebow wrote:It's my understanding that this means they are effected by anything that effects humans, but not that they qualify for anything that requires human as a pre-requisite.
Half-Orcs are half human
It actually means they qualify for anything orc, half-orc, or human related.
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If this guide gets updated, here are a couple of things to consider.
(1) For those using Dazzling Display, Equipment Trick (Cloak) will, among other things, let you extend the effects by 1d4 rounds.
(2) For those using Enforcer there are now more ways to deal non-lethal damage without a penalty. I think the complete list is:
Bludgeoner (combat): all bludgeoning weapons
Divine Fighting Technique (Combat-Sarenrae): scimitar
Merciful Bane (general): any weapon currently affected by your Bane class ability
Stage Combatant (combat): any weapon for which you have Weapon Focus
Virtuous Creed, Mercy (general): all weapons
Weapon Special Abilities
Merciful: any weapon
One thing I think merits mentioning is the Conversion Inquisition available to Inquisitors, it lets you key intimidate (and bluff and diplomacy) off of Wisdom rather than Charisma. This, for example, enables Dwarves (already fine inquisitors) to be downright scary (and potentially party faces) no matter how low their charisma is (and wisdom is more useful to inquisitors than intelligence.)
I am looking at your ifrit build and a couple things stood out:
Firstly, rogues are not proficient with kukris. Your build would have to be changed to daggers or else find another route for proficiency.
Secondly, you mention enlarging yourself using Efreeti Magic, but unless you take the Mostly Human alternate racial trait, then you are an outsider and therefore not a valid target for enlarge person.
|Darksol the Painbringer|
Just came across this.
I'd like to point out that Sorcerers deserve an honorable mention, because of the high CHA you'll already need, and in particular because of the infernal bloodline's Corrupting Touch power:
"Corrupting Touch (Sp): At 1st level, you can cause a creature to become shaken as a melee touch attack. This effect persists for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 your sorcerer level (minimum 1). Creatures shaken by this ability radiate an aura of evil, as if they were an evil outsider (see detect evil). Multiple touches do not stack, but they do add to the duration. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier."
Multiple touches do not stack on their own, but combined with demoralize actions, you can attain the frightened condition in just 2 turns, probably less if you're really clever.
Moreover, sorcerers are not the only ones who can benefit from Corrupting Touch. The following feat tree will let anyone access it with just a -2 on their effective sorcerer level: Skill Focus (Diplomacy) -> Eldritch Heritage (Infernal)
For this reason, I think half-elves are as viable for intimidate builds as are humans (free skill focus at first level). The +3/+6 to diplomacy is fun for general social builds too.
Lastly, nobody seemed to mention the significance of Dirty Tricks in amping up the fear level of enemies. Anything on the Dirty Trick feat tree seems applicable to this discussion, including but not limited to the dirty fighter archetype that orcs get access to.
For those not playing PFS, soulless gaze is redonk. If you have cornugon smash AND enforcer, an opponent is frightened in one hit, or panicked in two. They get no save against this, like with signature skill (intimidate). That is so powerful it makes hurtful look like a bad feat since it might end the effect. The only other way to fear stack this effectively is by combining disheartening display, violent display, shatter defenses, and sneak attacks.
If you are playing PFS, soulless gaze, violent display, and hurtful are banned, unfortunately.
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I hate to spoil the author's fun, but I found two issues with his (really impressive) unchained rogue build. It doesn't work exactly as he describes. I think its important to clarify some fear rules if the author could misinterpret them.
Fearsome Strike means you can make them frightened without any save whatsoever. The important part about Fearsome strike is that it requires no Intimidate check, and is not a demoralize attempt. As such, it follows the general rule of fear conditions, which state that such things stack to go to progressively worse fear conditions (unlike demoralize attempts, which specifically state that they can’t raise a creature’s fear condition above shaken). Basically, even if they made the save they are panicked off the bat, and if they didn't make the save they are fully cowering.
ISSUE ONE:Fearsome strike, which causes a creature to become frightened, would not cause a creature shaken by demoralize to become panicked. Fear effects caused by demoralize do not stack with other fear sources to increase fear level, even if demoralize is used BEFORE the other fear source (like in the example above). Demoralize can only extend fear duration, which normal fear sources cannot do.
Source (below) is the same faq which the author references above
Q: (10/8/09) Can you demoralize the same being more than once, and have the effects stack?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) The shaken condition gained in this matter cannot be stacked to create a stronger condition. If you succeed at another demoralize attempt, you just extend the shaken condition’s duration. There was a sentence left out of the skill description that will be noted in a future errata update.
A: (Jason Bulmahn) This is indeed the case.
Q: (10/8/09) Does the above mean a Shaken condition imposed by a Intimidate Skill – Demoralise can never be upgraded by another use Source of a Fear condition?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) Correct. Though, as noted above, it can extend the duration of the shaken condition.
Q: (10/8/09) Does this idea that Shaken + Shaken only increases the duration of the Shaken condition come into effect only when Demoralise is in the mix?
A: (Joshua J. Frost) Yes.
The updated demoralize description on d20pfsrd says "This shaken condition doesn’t stack with other shaken conditions to make an affected creature frightened."
Cowering is not a fear condition. From the official prd (see fear)
"Becoming Even More Fearful: Fear effects are cumulative. A shaken character who is made shaken again becomes frightened, and a shaken character who is made frightened becomes panicked instead. A frightened character who is made shaken or frightened becomes panicked instead."
Note that cowering was not mentioned. And under fearful,
"Panicked characters cower if they are prevented from fleeing."
So on a panicked character's turn, they attempt to flee. If they cannot, they cower until their next turn, when they attempt to flee again.
Also, while the intimidate skill unlock can allow demoralize to cause frightened, panicked, or cowering conditions, these conditions are still caused by demoralize, and thus do not stack with other fear sources to increase fear conditions. So if you used demoralize to frighten a creature, casting doom on it would not make the creature panicked, but would extend the fear duration with some rounds of shaken.
I really like what he's done here to create a guide on a both underused and misunderstood mechanic (at least in my experience).
In fact, I welcome Warpriest Guy's rules clarifications because it brings it down a notch from potentially cheesy and making me a target for rulebooks thrown by my GM, to powerful but usable (again, at least at my table).
Really fun guide, good job.
Just figured it's a good option since it's fairly economical as far as intimidate checks go. It would give another opportunity on top of other intimidate checks (Combining bullying blow with cornugon smash), but the later feats offer better bonuses. Rampage gives a bonus to offense, and Snarl is a +4 bonus to saves against anything shaken, not just things shaken by you. That's pretty substantial considering the best intimidating classes have a notable weakness is key save areas. On top of Sacred Tattoo and Fates Favored, that's hella good saves.
The style gives pretty good bonuses on things that may be out of reach (Snarl at a enemy caster, Dodge the fireball, and pelt him with arrows that have boosted accuracy from shaken, Shatter Defenses and Orc Rampage). It's also another method of free intimidates outside of power attacks in case accuracy is a worry.
Tho you kinda need need Unhindering Shield since Orc weapons are two handed and you wanna make use of the Vikings bonus to shields (But it's worth the mad AC)
Another feat to consider: Shadows of Fear from Ultimate Intrigue. It's PFS legal. Requires Hidden Strike +2d8 or Sneak Attack +2d6.
The first time each round that you hit a creature suffering from a fear effect, you can deal hidden strike or sneak attack damage as if you were flanking that creature (unless they have Improved Uncanny Dodge or something else that prevents flanking).
Since Rogues don't get a second attack until 8th level, and they can get +2d6 Sneak Attack at 3rd, a well-built intimidator can be getting sneak attacks every round pretty much on his/her own. And considering some builds where sneak attacks trigger more demoralize...
1) Comparing Merciful (+1 bonus) vs. Blade of Mercy (trait): 1d6 hp rider vs 1 hp rider.
2) Please include non-PFS things. Put it in a section labeled Non-PFS (not evaluated) so at least others have a single source for all things intimidate.
3) Reducing the enemies effectiveness by 10% can be a 67% reduction if they started with 15% chance to succeed. That may be worth a standard action.
4) Please mention (and include links to) all FAQ/errata that are relevant. A section of the document, or adjacent to the relevant thing is easier to find than reading a long thread hoping for information.
5) If you sub Wis for Cha (Inquisitor Conversion Inquisition), it also means you have a better Will Save.