mechaPoet hit the nail on the head. Inquisitors get it due to Van Helsing.
Bolt Ace doesn't because of oversight.
|
In the meantime, may I suggest a 1500gp alternative?
I plan on using it to gain proficiency with the Launching Crossbow.
Hand Crossbows kinda suck for Bolt Ace even if you houserule it.
And can't do much of the TWF shenanigans you can with them like you can with guns.
Do snipers use a big badass gun or a spy mini gun that fits in one's bra? (or other places)
Bolt ace sounds like a medieval version of a sniper...
Why wouldn't they use both? Even talented snipers can get caught in close quarters sometimes. It would be stupid for them not to have a small, handheld weapon as a back up.
They certainly aren't spymasters. but having two hidden hand crossbows can be handy if a fight breaks out at the Royal Wedding.
Really I'd want hand crossbows because I have the ridiculous/awesome image in my head of a dude in medieval clothing wiping out two hand crossbows and Matrixing it up.
I'm pretty sure they can do the TWF shenanigans, it is the double pistol (musket) shenanigans which the bolt ace loses out on. Mind you, the loss of free touch AC hurts the TWFing bolt ace more than the TWFing gunslinger and not having access to the up close and deadly deed of the pistolero weakens the power of the signature deed feat, but the actual shenanigans should still work.Hand Crossbows kinda suck for Bolt Ace even if you houserule it.
And can't do much of the TWF shenanigans you can with them like you can with guns.
Might have worded it poorly.
But the loss of touch AC (so TWF with non-light hurts), lack of damage stacking options (which is why gun TWF is good) and losing Gun Twirling (which tends to be the most widely accepted and palatable way to reload from my experience) makes it a lot rougher around the edges
bolt ace doesn't sound like spymaster, is all I'm saying... it's even weird for me that inquisitors have the proficiency... i mean, Van Helsing had a similar hat and was using a repeating heavy x-bow...
And a "spymaster" is the only person ever who could benefit from an easily concealed weapon not too dissimilar from your weapon of choice, but easier to reload and fire quickly?
Snipers carry pistols as sidearms too.
Besides which, the Bolt Ace isn't even tooled as a Sniper. He's a Gunslinger with crossbows. He's all about quick shooting.
Why wouldn't they use both? Even talented snipers can get caught in close quarters sometimes. It would be stupid for them not to have a small, handheld weapon as a back up.Do snipers use a big badass gun or a spy mini gun that fits in one's bra? (or other places)
Bolt ace sounds like a medieval version of a sniper...
They have pistol whip, and if you feat up no AOO for shooting in melee.
because they want our tears
Snipers that get caught in close quarters are generally dead meat. They are certainly not going to be wasting their time with the puny damage of a hand crossbow, which was traditionally used to deliver drow poison. The damage of a hand crossbow is generally from either the carriage of poison or sneak attack.Why wouldn't they use both? Even talented snipers can get caught in close quarters sometimes. It would be stupid for them not to have a small, handheld weapon as a back up.Do snipers use a big badass gun or a spy mini gun that fits in one's bra? (or other places)
Bolt ace sounds like a medieval version of a sniper...
So the alternative to carrying a less powerful weapon is carrying no weapon at all?
Yeah... That makes sense... Specially considering that they can get Dex to damage with the hand-crossbow as well.
Normally snipers would carry melee weapons for close quarters.
What's the advantage to using a hand-crossbow over a heavy crossbow in close quarters? In a realistic (or low-level) game, you'd drop your ranged weapon and use a melee one. In PF, if you could have the feats to use a hand-crossbow in close quarters, you could have the feats to use your main crossbow. Why would you use both?
It makes sense that a crossbow-specialist would know how to use hand-crossbows. More than a few feats effect both your main crossbow and your secondary one.
Maybe you decided that using a shield is a better idea in a certain situation... Maybe you have to carry something in one of your hands, etc.
Besides, as Rynjin mentioned, the Bolt Ace is the crossbow-equivalent of the Gunslinger, not necessarily a sniper.
Snipers that get caught in close quarters are generally dead meat. They are certainly not going to be wasting their time with the puny damage of a hand crossbow, which was traditionally used to deliver drow poison. The damage of a hand crossbow is generally from either the carriage of poison or sneak attack.Why wouldn't they use both? Even talented snipers can get caught in close quarters sometimes. It would be stupid for them not to have a small, handheld weapon as a back up.Do snipers use a big badass gun or a spy mini gun that fits in one's bra? (or other places)
Bolt ace sounds like a medieval version of a sniper...
A) Yes generally snipers are very good in close quarters but we're talking about PCs here.
B) Bolt Aces, if they got proficiency, would get the same bonuses from deadly aim and dex to damage so the damage lowering wouldn't that much.
C) Why not have the close range gun with a bolt of poison like you said ready in case someone bothers you?
D) It shouldn't really cost much to have one. So why not have both?
E) Hand Crossbows are easier to hide. (or at least they should be.)
@thejeff While it is true that people would have daggers or short swords in case someone bothers them, gunslingers suck at melee without wasting feats on it. It's be better to have a sidearm. Is it realistic or accurate? Maybe not but it's more so than use a heavy crossbow when someone is close enough to whack you over the head.
As for why hand over light or heavy crossbow when PF doesn't really make that much of a distinction? I refer you to point E.
I can agree with that. I just didn't see the point of a hand-crossbow as a close quarters back-up weapon.Normally snipers would carry melee weapons for close quarters.
What's the advantage to using a hand-crossbow over a heavy crossbow in close quarters? In a realistic (or low-level) game, you'd drop your ranged weapon and use a melee one. In PF, if you could have the feats to use a hand-crossbow in close quarters, you could have the feats to use your main crossbow. Why would you use both?
It makes sense that a crossbow-specialist would know how to use hand-crossbows. More than a few feats effect both your main crossbow and your secondary one.
Maybe you decided that using a shield is a better idea in a certain situation... Maybe you have to carry something in one of your hands, etc.
Besides, as Rynjin mentioned, the Bolt Ace is the crossbow-equivalent of the Gunslinger, not necessarily a sniper.
Hand-crossbows can be used in conjuction with a shield or melee weapon in your other hand.
Anyway, I'm mostly disagreeing with LazarX idea that crossbow specialists agouldn't be expected to be proficient with hand-crossbows.
Why wouldn't they use both? Even talented snipers can get caught in close quarters sometimes. It would be stupid for them not to have a small, handheld weapon as a back up.Do snipers use a big badass gun or a spy mini gun that fits in one's bra? (or other places)
Bolt ace sounds like a medieval version of a sniper...
Shooting a hand crossbow next to someone still provokes. Besides the non-crunch substantiated concept of "well it's small so it makes sense for me to use it in tight quarters," the hand crossbow has zero mechanical advantage in the situation you are describing. That said, most times said issue can be resolved by "I 5ft step back and full attack" regardless of what ranged weapon you are using.