Kineticist Powers I Would Like To See


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

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(Earth/Water/Wood)Create a large hand that can slam, grapple, make AoO.

(Aether/Air/Water)-Protection from arrows effect.

(Fire)-Ability to quench fires and increase intensity of existing fires.

(Aether)-Ability that acts like catch arrows/snatch arrows(maybe catch boulder as well) but can be used on allies as well as self.

(Wood)-Defensive ability should grant a natural armor bonus.

(All)-Ability to alter the direction of an elemental attack like fireball or a breath weapon.

(Wood)-Command plants/control plants ability.

(All)-Ability that grants a constant energy resistance bonus that stacks with abilities that grant resistance based on burn.

(Aether)-Create a telekinetic burst centered on yourself that can knock enemies back and/or prone.

(All)-Ability to change into an elemental of your element, no stat mods, but gain the elemental subtype and any special ability the elemental would have.

(Earth)-Meld into stone effect

(Aether/Water)-Ability that cures some afflictions/ailments.

(Fire/Water)Ability that increases the effect of heat/cold adaptations to resistance 5(max 30) per point of burn instead of 2.

(Earth/Water/Wood)-Ability to create a temporary Golem.

(Fire/Water)-Heat metal/chill metal ability.

(All)-More abilities that grant immunities/resistances such as water granting immunity to sea sickness or snow blindness.


Pathfinder Starfinder Maps Subscriber

Aether - The ability to grab an enemy and just toss him away, or bounce him off walls or the ceiling. (Foe Throw is similar, but you must use the target NPC as a projectile to attack another NPC.)


(Aether)-Some actual area effects such as cones, lines, and bursts would be nice.

(Wood)-Wall of Thorns effect.

(Wood)-Ability to change into a plant creature.

(Aether)-Some kind of teleportation ability like dimension door.

(Aether/Water)-More powerful kinetic healing ability maybe at cost of 4 burn it can act as a heal spell.

(Wood)-Entangle spell effect, maybe at the cost 1 burn you can move it to a different location in range.

(All)-Infusion effect that makes your blast work like the ghost touch property.

(Fire)-Infusion effect, cold Fire, makes fires do cold damage.

(All)- Evasion ability for all elements.

(Aether/Earth/Water)-Improved cover ability that blocks an attack as an immediate action.

(Earth)-An actual acid simple blast.

(Aether)-A simple force blast that uses 1d4s instead of d6s.

(Air/Fire)-A actual plasma composite blast that does fire + electrical damage.

(Water)-Octopus defense-take total defense action to create several tendrils of water that makes AoO each round based on number of tendrils you can create.


(Aether/Air/Water)-Ability to expel water from the lungs to prevent drowning, usable on allies from a distance.

(Water)-Ability to change water into a solid gel like substance similar to the character of Bella in H20 just add water.

(Fire)-Create an area of burning ground(10' squire/level) that slows movement and causes fire damage.

(Water)-Can change the state of water(solid, liquid, or gas) in the area.

(Wood)-Gain woodland stride ability.

(Wood)-Simple wood blast does piercing damage.

(Earth/Water/Wood)-Ability to create a permanent structure such as a bridge, tower, house, castle, etc.

(Air)-Body becomes electrified and cause damage to any that touches him.

(Wood)-Tree Stride effect.

(Fire)-Ability to teleport from one fire to another.

(Any)-Gain freedom of movement.

(Earth)-Turn a creature to stone.

(Wood)-Body grows thorns that cause damage to any that attacks or grapples.

(Aether)-telekinetically lift an ally(or allies) into the air, acts as fly for a single target or levitate for multiple ones. must concentrate on the effect or take burn to make it last without concentration.

(Air)-Greater aerial adaptation ability that grants elec. res. 5 per point of burn instead of 2.

(Air/Earth/Fire/Water)-An energy immunity ability would be awesome.

(Fire)-Wings of fire- gain fly speed and attack with them for fire damage.

Dark Archive

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niteowl24 wrote:
Aether - The ability to grab an enemy and just toss him away, or bounce him off walls or the ceiling. (Foe Throw is similar, but you must use the target NPC as a projectile to attack another NPC.)

Not actually required, unless that's been FAQed. I thought the same thing at first, but it was pointed out to me that if you read it that way, you're not actually allowed to target objects with your blast either, which is a fairly stupid way to read the ability.


(Air) Possess a technological item.
(Air) Recharge a technological item.
(Air + Earth) Make sand elementals
(Air + Earth) Move Water, but limited to affecting sand
(Earth + Fire) Make magma elementals
(Air) Make lightning elementals
(Water) Make Ice elementals
(Earth + Water) Make mud elementals


(Earth) - Create Pit, escalating into other types of pit spell like abilities as you level (i.e. spiked pit, hungry pit, acid pit).

(Earth / Water) - Create duplicates of yourself, giving you brief (maybe 1 round) mirror image.

(Earth) - Create a dust or sand cloud.

(Earth + Air) - More sand based stuff.

(Earth) - Lock full plate wearer's in place or drastically slow them. Lock metal weapons in their sheaths.

(Aether) - A quick downward spike that deals damage and possibly makes them prone.

(All) - Improved Kinetic Cover. Better HP, maybe even hardness.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
niteowl24 wrote:
Aether - The ability to grab an enemy and just toss him away, or bounce him off walls or the ceiling. (Foe Throw is similar, but you must use the target NPC as a projectile to attack another NPC.)

You can always attack an object, or section of wall, floor or ceiling.


(Aether)-Slow spell effect, one round duration unless you use burn.

(All)-Take burn to recharge a magic item that uses spell(s) related to your element.

(Earth)-Ability to manipulate sand.

(All)-Take burn to automatically use a magic item you would have to use UMD to activate.

(Earth)-grant an ally a stoneskin spell effect.

(Wood)-plant sense-works like tremor sense but through plants and wooden structures.

(All)-Detect the presence of any creature or object that is related to your element.

(Air)-Greater Air Cushion for multiple targets.

(Fire)-Create a pyrotechnics spell effect.

(Water)-Create a obscuring mist/fog cloud spell effect.

(Earth)-Create a wall of stone effect.

(Fire/Water)-Swirling elements enthralls/hypnotizes enemies.

(Wood)-Ability to summon plant creatures.

(Earth)-Create crystal shards, crystal growths on the ground/walls, and turn things into crystals.

(All)-Gain the bane weapon property against creatures related to your element or terrain were element is found.


(Earth)-Ability to detect precious metals and gems.

(Water)-Ability to locate ground water(dowsing).

(Wood)-Speak with plants spell effect.

(Air/Water/Fire)-Ability to grant flaming, frost, or shock weapon properties to your(and allies') weapons.

(Water/Wood)-Sleep based infusion.

(Earth/Wood)-Poison based infusion.

(Wood)-Wood shape spell effect.

(Aether)-Time stop spell effect.

(Fire/Water)-Grant self a displacement spell effect.

(Fire)-Drain body heat from a target dealing cold damage and fatigue and/or exhaustion.

(Earth/Water/Wood)-Rusting grasp spell effect.

(Aether/Air/Earth/Water)-Stun based infusion.

(Wood)-Paralysis based infusion.

(All)-Energy Barrier- Take a total defense action to surround yourself with a barrier that blocks an energy attack based on your element such as cold for water, force for aether, etc.


(Shadow) - Cloak of Shadows (bonus to stealth in areas of dim or no light)
(Shadow) - Veil of Darkness (blinding effect)
(Shadow) - Shadow grab
(Shadow) - Shadow teleporting
(Shadow) - See in Darkness
(Shadow) - Darkness/Deeper Darkness
(Shadow) - Shadow Conjuration (maybe?)

Basically anything that Cloak/Shroud/Darkstar (all from Marvel Comics) can do :D

I wanna be able to make blades of darkness, dangit!


(negative plane) Damage un-typed and 60 foot default range on blast.
Insert Warlock powers and shapes here.

Profit!


Maybe I missed something. Are there Wood and Shadow kineticists? Or is this something being added in one of the other books? I'd really be interested in a Shadow kineticist.


ShepherdGunn wrote:
Maybe I missed something. Are there Wood and Shadow kineticists? Or is this something being added in one of the other books? I'd really be interested in a Shadow kineticist.

Currently kineticists are only the five elements described in the Occult Adventures supplement (barring 3PP sources which I don't look at) but hope springs eternal, it's entirely feasible to see other elements like the eastern elemental wheel represented in future products. Further separation into light and dark based descriptors, while interesting, might be a bridge too far, but one can never be too sure.


It has been said that there will be Wood and Void elements in Occult Origins. Though I am not sure what void will be based on, negative energy, balance between forces, anti-elemental powers, or something else.


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A negative energy and a positive energy Kineticist options sound awesome to me.


None of us has seen Wood and Void elements yet, me included, so I'm just gonna go with my gut feelings and general ideas.

Air:
- talent that dampens wind strength, basically being able to to turn a tornado into a gentle breeze.
- talent that channel electricity through metal weapons (for extra damage on hit) and metal armor or shield (for extra damage on being hit)
- talent to allow an electric blast as per the Call Lightning spell, either having to split your blast into weaker bolts or all at once at a bolt that crashes on one target.
- a 9th-level talent that create a huge tornado

Earth:
- talent that manipulates dirt and sand
- talent that mimics Iron Body
- talent that allows you to create pits
- talent that allows stone levitation
- talent that creates shockwaves to topple opponents

Fire:
- talent that mimics Pyrotechnics
- talent that creates fire rings
- talent that detects heat signatures
- talent that ignites targets (catching fire)

Water:
- talent that create snowstorm/hail/sleet
- talent that creates whirlpools
- talent that chills metal weapons and armors
- talent that creates spikes on your body, or a layer of ice for armor
- talent that heats or cools water
- talent that cures afflictions

Aether:
- talent that severs the connection between incorporeal creatures and the Ethereal Plane
- talent that allows to become incorporeal

Acid (new; Earth):
- Acidic Blast
- Poisonous Blast
- Rusting metals
- Corroding stone
- Acid resistance
- Ooze-like construct creation
- Acidic blood

Wood (new; Earth):
- B/P/S Blast
- Plant creation
- Thorn creation
- Awakening plant creatures
- Animate plants

Sound (new; Air):
- Sonic Blast
- Deafening blast
- Stunning blast
- Ventriloquism
- Silence
- Sound distortion

Shadow (new; Water):
- Shadow Blast (cold damage)
- Darkness
- Shadow control
- Shadow jumping
- Shadow conjuration/evocation
- Shadow puppet

Light (new; Fire):
- Light Blast (pure energy damage)
- Blinding blast
- Light/Daylight effect
- Undead-damaging blast
- Animated lantern-light orb of light

Positive Energy (new; own category):
- Positive Energy blast (heal living; hurt undead)
- Healing
- Removing afflictions
- Turn Undead
- Energy overload (consequence of getting double of your temporaty HPs via positive energy areas)
- Animating objects

Negative Energy (new; own category):
- Negative Energy blast (hurt living; heal undead)
- Rebuke/Command Undead
- Energy/Ability damage/drain
- Fatigue/Exhaustion
- Vampiric Touch


I would also like to see a positive energy based element with a positive energy blast though I think the blast should only heal one person per day. Though using d6s for the blast damage would be ok since could only hurt undead/negative energy based creatures. Also having the ability to do non-lethal damage with blast, various healing/curative powers, disruption weapon property, etc.

Negative energy would be interesting though the blast should use d4s.
Void would be a good element name but like I said void could be something completely different. The ability to create temporary undead, energy drain, live draining(vampire touch), etc.

I would also like to see a light based element that is not related to fire who has a light blast(d4s light based damage) double damage vs creatures vulnerable to light like vampire(maybe all undead), mold/fungus, shadow plane creatures, etc. Also the ability to create visual illusions, invisibility, solid light constructs(weapons, armor, tools, structures such as bridges, houses, boats, etc.) and various light effect such as daylight, sunburst, continual flame, rainbow pattern, prismatic spray, etc.


To be honest, I don't have enough Wild Talent slots to get all the existing powers that I want. I sort of hope they come up with a way of combining the talents a bit rather than yet more of yummy stuff... :/

That being said, here's what I'd REALLY like to see...

I'd like to see an Archetype that somehow merges Aether into the other elements. Thematically it makes sense, since everyone is using Aether to channel their element, and by the very definition of "kinetic", we're all thematic in moving things. It would be nice to see an Archetype that let you pick up the Utility powers of another element (even if only limited to Aether), without you needing to expand into the element, beginning at level 1.

As obvious from my racial choice, I'm always "air" oriented. But I really need/want some basic TK from level 1 onwards...

Or maybe a "hybrid" of elements... Start with both "basics", and at levels 1, 5, 9, 13, 17 you get 1 element's infusions, at 3, 7, 11, 15, 19 you get the other element's. Similarly with Utilities. And replace Expanded Element with just the composite blasts, unable to "expand".

-Something-, anything for those of us torn between elements. :P


Elements I would like to see would be light, positive energy, negative energy, time, sound/music, shadow, nature(animal based), dream, metal, emotions, technology, and magic.

Archetypes I would like to see...
-Sorcerer bloodline based one with cha used for save DCs and damage. Maybe a mechanic that gives you the bloodline spells.
-Monster based one were you take on the traits of creatures like fey, dragons, aberrations, plants, etc.
-Anti-elemental one were your powers are focused on countering, nullifying, deflecting etc. an element or all elements.
-One were you gain a animal companion and wild empathy.
-One focuses on summoning things.
-A skill focused one that gains more skill points and class skills.
-One were you gain a phantom or eidolon like companion.
-A psychic magic focused one were you gain a selection of spells that you cast as psychic magic but uses the monster rules were you gain psychic energy points.
-One completely focused on defensive abilities and has better AC.
-A shapeshifting focused one.


Dragon78 wrote:

(Wood)-Body grows thorns that cause damage to any that attacks or grapples.

(Fire)-Wings of fire- gain fly speed and attack with them for fire damage.

Aren't those powers already? Earth has jagged flesh, which gives you spikes for the rest of the day (And it technically damages weapons hitting you too- just that it admits that would not do much due to hardness).

Jet flames are flight, basically. Pretty poor flight, but flight none the less. Two talents, but you can move with a move and hover as well.

Third Mind wrote:
(Earth) - Lock full plate wearer's in place or drastically slow them. Lock metal weapons in their sheaths.

Entangling infusion? I know it isn't the same thematically, but it does let you halve their movement with teh first hit, and they are fused to the ground with the second. Also, it works on armored and unarmored foes alike, which is useful.


lemeres wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:

(Wood)-Body grows thorns that cause damage to any that attacks or grapples.

(Fire)-Wings of fire- gain fly speed and attack with them for fire damage.

Aren't those powers already? Earth has jagged flesh, which gives you spikes for the rest of the day (And it technically damages weapons hitting you too- just that it admits that would not do much due to hardness).

Jet flames are flight, basically. Pretty poor flight, but flight none the less. Two talents, but you can move with a move and hover as well.

Third Mind wrote:
(Earth) - Lock full plate wearer's in place or drastically slow them. Lock metal weapons in their sheaths.
Entangling infusion? I know it isn't the same thematically, but it does let you halve their movement with teh first hit, and they are fused to the ground with the second. Also, it works on armored and unarmored foes alike, which is useful.

I was more aiming for something along the lines of hold person, but I suppose that would suffice. For some reason I've always been somewhat eh on the entangled condtion, despite it being pretty solid. That said:

(Earth/Water) - Teleport up to your speed as long as you use your element to do it. Can't Teleport from Earth to the air, but you can go from one earth based point to another earth based point. (I know ride the blast exists, but this wouldn't require an attack)


Wood is a different element so it wouldn't hurt for another element to get a similar but thematically fitting ability.

Wings of fire would be a higher level ability and possibly a third tire option to get after both jet flames ability.

(Aether)-kinetic leap- same as Air's Leap.

(Earth)-Ability that lets you bypass all DR/hardness for objects and creatures made of stone and earth with blast and weapons(natural or manufactured).

(All)-Ability to control/posses a creature related to your element.

(Wood)-Warp wood spell effect.

(Fire)-Choose a creature or creature type(subtype if humanoid or outsider) and they cannot be harmed by any fire you create or control.

(Air)-Take gaseous form, as the spell.

(Water)-Create a aqueous orb spell effect.

(All)-Ability to communicate (maybe telepathically) with creatures related to your element like all aquatic and water subtype creatures for the water element.


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I would love it if kineticists could get a power that lets them attempt to banish an outsider regardless of its type. This would greatly help pyrokineticists against devils and many other non-fire typed fire immune enemies.


Dragon78 wrote:

Elements I would like to see would be light, positive energy, negative energy, time, sound/music, shadow, nature(animal based), dream, metal, emotions, technology, and magic.

Archetypes I would like to see...
-Sorcerer bloodline based one with cha used for save DCs and damage. Maybe a mechanic that gives you the bloodline spells.
-One were you gain a animal companion and wild empathy.
-One focuses on summoning things.
-One were you gain a phantom or eidolon like companion.

Since the kineticist doesn't need many feats, those seem like they could be done through variant multiclasing (Sorcerer, druid or summoner, respectively), or the feat chain that buys you a companion.

Have fun.


Dragon78 wrote:

I would also like to see a positive energy based element with a positive energy blast though I think the blast should only heal one person per day. Though using d6s for the blast damage would be ok since could only hurt undead/negative energy based creatures. Also having the ability to do non-lethal damage with blast, various healing/curative powers, disruption weapon property, etc.

I was playing around with a homebrew idea and what I came up with was for it too do full kinetic blast positive energy but also apply 2 burn to those hit by it (kind of symbolizing them being overwhelmed with positive energy). This would make it worse then kinetic healing and keep people from complaining about unlimited healing. It also could lead to some pretty fun builds that would focus on stacking burn on opponents to knock them out. I was also allowing drain to drain anything healed by positive energy, so you could have a vampiric healer.


(All)-Improved ability to ignore energy immunity.

(Aether)-Telekinetic Storm spell effect.

(Air)-Call Lighting spell effect.

(Earth)-A rusting blast infusion.

(Fire)-Surround yourself with smoke that grants concealment and sickens any within 5ft.

(Water)-Geyser spell effect.

(Wood)-Transmute metal to wood spell effect.


(All)-Ability to create some magic items that are related to your element would be cool.


Aether - Craft Construct (like a stone puppet)


(Aether)-Ability to sense a creature right before it teleports within 60ft of you.

(Aether)-Ability to prevent, change location, or attack a teleporting creature.

(Aether)-Dimensional anchor spell effect.

(All)-Ability to effect a incorporeal or ethereal creature.

(Air)-Ability to walk on clouds as solid ground.


(Air)-Ability to control/move clouds/mist/fog.

(Earth)-Transmute mud to rock/rock to mud spell effects.

(Wood)-Telekinetically move wooden objects, wooden creatures, and plant creatures.

(Earth)-Telekinetically move earth/stone/sand like Telekinetic haul.

(Fire)-Ability to see in darkness.

(Earth)-Rock catching special ability.

(Water)-Freeze a creature in a solid block of ice for 1 round/level.

(Earth)-Rock throwing special ability.

(Water)-Telekinetically move water and ice like telekinetic haul.

(Fire)-Ability to control/move ash and smoke.

(Wood)-Ability to take on plant-like traits gaining some plant immunities/resistances.

(All)-Ring of sustenance effect.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

(All) An option (possibly through an archetype or prestige class) that allows a kineticist to use composite blasts of elemental and alignment-based (anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy) energy: i.e, chaotic lightning blasts for an aerokineticist, hellfire blasts for a pyrokineticist, holy water blasts for a hydrokineticist, or lawful earth for a geokineticist. Or possibly just as an infusion, to add the alignment descriptor (good aligned rare metal, anyone?).


Dragonchess Player wrote:
(All) An option (possibly through an archetype or prestige class) that allows a kineticist to use composite blasts of elemental and alignment-based (anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy) energy: i.e, chaotic lightning blasts for an aerokineticist, hellfire blasts for a pyrokineticist, holy water blasts for a hydrokineticist, or lawful earth for a geokineticist. Or possibly just as an infusion, to add the alignment descriptor (good aligned rare metal, anyone?).

...but wouldn't that mean that water would be the only useful element most of the time?

Just saying- there is a reason why there is a magical item designed purely to make the monk's "lawful" ki strikes hit as "good" ki strikes.

DR/Evil is the most common alignment DR. And the only element that actually has consistent problems with DR would be earth (since everything else could, possibly, just go energy, and avoid DR entirely; earth is purely physical, and as such always faces DR).

If I was to list it based off of need, I would say fire would need some holy option. This is mainly due to the fact that devils have immunity to fire, and yet they are not of the fire subtype. That makes the drain infusion, designed to deal with subtype creatures that might have immunity to your element, into less of a problem. So fire kineticists might as well go home in a Cheliax heavy campaign. So giving fire some option like "holy fire: deal 1/2 of your damage as fire, 1/2 as holy damage that only affects evil outsiders" would be rather useful.

Earth is rather ok against DR/evil, in comparison, since they can just empower through it- the advantage of having your basic attack have damage comparable to cluster shot, and picking the type of blast designed for high damage (also, it doesn't deal with SR, which is not uncommon for DR/evil creatures). I might still want some options to get past alignment, but it isn't as desperate as fire vs devils.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
lemeres wrote:
Dragonchess Player wrote:
(All) An option (possibly through an archetype or prestige class) that allows a kineticist to use composite blasts of elemental and alignment-based (anarchic, axiomatic, holy, unholy) energy: i.e, chaotic lightning blasts for an aerokineticist, hellfire blasts for a pyrokineticist, holy water blasts for a hydrokineticist, or lawful earth for a geokineticist. Or possibly just as an infusion, to add the alignment descriptor (good aligned rare metal, anyone?).
...but wouldn't that mean that water would be the only useful element most of the time?

Note, the examples I used are just the most "common" combinations (thematically). There's nothing preventing unholy lightning (like in Return of the Jedi), holy fire (very Biblical), or anarchic water (in line with several traditions, such as the original Babylonian myth where Tiamat is aligned with chaos and the oceans). Anarchic earth isn't one that comes up often (other than in the Recluse novels), but is still possible.


(All)-An aligned blast infusion sounds like a good idea to me.

(Aether)-Ability to create small portals that you can attack from(anyone remember the Sharn).

(Air)-Ability to change into flying animals.

(Earth)-Ability to change into land based animals.

(Fire)-Ability to use fire for divination related abilities.

(Water)-Ability to change into aquatic animals.

(Wood)-Gain a climb speed in the trees or on wooden buildings/structures.


(Void)-Ability to control undead.

(Void)-Healed by negative energy, harmed by positive energy.

(Void)-Gain spiderclimb/wall walking ability.

(Void)-Ability that reduces gravity related penalties.

(Void)-Gain the clerics channel power(negative energy version only).

(Void)-Generate a fear aura or fear cone effect.

(Void)-Change into a shadow creature.

(Void)-Gain the ability to animate dead.

(Void)-Gain immunity to energy drain effects.


The ability to ignore nonlethal damage from burn so that I don't end up with less effective health than the sorcerer after a combat encounter.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Void - creature summoning (shadows or tentacle space monsters or something)
Wood - A wood/wood composite blast
Wood - Basic phytokinesis

HFTyrone wrote:
The ability to ignore nonlethal damage from burn so that I don't end up with less effective health than the sorcerer after a combat encounter.

I've made several kineticists. Since I regularly had a higher Constitution score than anyone else in the party, retrained my hit points to max, and also invested in the Toughness feat and extra hit point favored class bonuses, I can honestly say that something like you describe is not necessary. I can damn near max out my burn for the day and STILL have more leftover hit points than other members of my party have at the start of the day.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Void - The ability to deal full blast damage against incorporeal creatures as a low-level utility.


Ravingdork wrote:
I've made several kineticists. Since I regularly had a higher Constitution score than anyone else in the party, retrained my hit points to max, and also invested in the Toughness feat and extra hit point favored class bonuses, I can honestly say that something like you describe is not necessary. I can damn near max out my burn for the day and STILL have more leftover hit points than other members of my party have at the start of the day.

A 5th level kineticist with a +5 constitution modifier, toughness, and the +1 HP favored class bonus per level will have 75 max HP. Hitting your burn limit at that point would leave you with 35 maximum health, which is a decent amount higher than a D6 hit die class who did nothing more than roll median and didn't dump Constitution. At 10th level, under the same conditions and with a +9 constitution modifier will be left with 30 HP if he hits his burn limit. Again, this is with maximum rolls, where the same sorcerer with a +1 con modifier and median rolls with have 40 health total. A 12 burn limit is extremely easy to hit given that you don't even get to use "free" composite blasts until level 11, and a ton of your actually useful abilities require you to spend burn to get anything out of them.

The kineticist requires a mind-boggling level of bookkeeping, has very limited utility, and is more prone to being hard-walled than any class should be. Given those conditions already, the nonlethal damage just strikes me as overkill.

Remove elemental overflow entirely, give the class full BAB, remove the nonlethal damage aspect of burn, change gather power to a way to reduce overall burn as a minimum full-round action, and re-adjust certain talents to accomodate this change in dynamic. Doing this would still prevent the kineticist from spamming abilities with no thought, but also allow it to actually function as an "all day class"; and on top of this stops the player from having to constantly recalculate all of their stats, bonuses, nonlethal damage, etc.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
HFTyrone wrote:
Ravingdork wrote:
I've made several kineticists. Since I regularly had a higher Constitution score than anyone else in the party, retrained my hit points to max, and also invested in the Toughness feat and extra hit point favored class bonuses, I can honestly say that something like you describe is not necessary. I can damn near max out my burn for the day and STILL have more leftover hit points than other members of my party have at the start of the day.

A 5th level kineticist with a +5 constitution modifier, toughness, and the +1 HP favored class bonus per level will have 75 max HP. Hitting your burn limit at that point would leave you with 35 maximum health, which is a decent amount higher than a D6 hit die class who did nothing more than roll median and didn't dump Constitution. At 10th level, under the same conditions and with a +9 constitution modifier will be left with 30 HP if he hits his burn limit. Again, this is with maximum rolls, where the same sorcerer with a +1 con modifier and median rolls with have 40 health total. A 12 burn limit is extremely easy to hit given that you don't even get to use "free" composite blasts until level 11, and a ton of your actually useful abilities require you to spend burn to get anything out of them.

The kineticist requires a mind-boggling level of bookkeeping, has very limited utility, and is more prone to being hard-walled than any class should be. Given those conditions already, the nonlethal damage just strikes me as overkill.

Remove elemental overflow entirely, give the class full BAB, remove the nonlethal damage aspect of burn, change gather power to a way to reduce overall burn as a minimum full-round action, and re-adjust certain talents to accomodate this change in dynamic. Doing this would still prevent the kineticist from spamming abilities with no thought, but also allow it to actually function as an "all day class"; and on top of this stops the player from having to constantly recalculate all of their stats, bonuses, nonlethal...

In that case, don't max out your burn. Unless you're in a live or die situation, why would you do that anyways?

Just use enough to pump your Defense wild talent and get the most out of your elemental overflow. My aerokinectist normally has 168 hit points, but when he maxes out his elemental overflow, he has 180 hit points and 60 nonlethal damage. That leaves him with 120 hit points, effectively--more than many of the other 12th-level characters in the party. What's more, since he is generally a highly mobile long-ranged combatant (as are most other kineticists it would seem), his survivability is much higher than even his hit points would initially indicate--to say nothing of his high AC from his pumped Dexterity!


The ability to do full damage to incorporeal targets is something I would like to see for all elements.

Alternate 20th level cap ability for each element would be awesome.

Aether- Immune to force, DR5/-, once per round deflect one attack directed at you.
Air- Immune to electricity and wind effects, not hindered by weather, can walk on clouds, mist, or fog.
Earth- Immune to Acid, attacks ignore DR/hardness of creatures with earth subtype or is made of stone or earth.
Fire- Immune to fire, light blindness and dazzle, can breath smoke or ash, attacks do half damage vs fire immune creatures and ignores resistances.
Water- Immune to cold and pressure damage, freedom of movement effect under water, swim speed 50ft.
Wood- Immune to poison, paralysis, polymorph, sleep, and stunning. Type changes to plant.
Void- Immune to negative energy, death effects, disease, and energy drain. Gains cold resistance 20.


Dragon78 wrote:
The ability to do full damage to incorporeal targets is something I would like to see for all elements.

They already do that, sans void kinetisist. All of their blasts are considered magic for the purposes of DR and incorporeal targets. Void can have a problem but only because one of their blasts is a negative energy blast.


They would still do only half damage since none of the blast have the ghost touch property and the force blast is a composite blast for Aether. Incorporeal creatures take half damage from physical attacks, magic, and energy damage. The only exceptions are force effects, ghost touch weapons, and specific metamagic.


HFTyrone wrote:
The ability to ignore nonlethal damage from burn so that I don't end up with less effective health than the sorcerer after a combat encounter.

As much as I hate that mecanic and that the devs literally made it clear that they do not want to change it, I wouldn't say no for options related to Burn, such as feats that reduce Burn damage or spells that heal Burn damage only.

However, considering that the Kinecist can Burn himself up to 5 points less with Infusion Specialization, you're pretty much safe to spam your regular blast or your blade/whip.

One problem I do have is that Composite Specialization and Metakinesis Specialization (don't have my books right now, but something along those lines) come too late and don't reduce it much. I would have prefered something scalable, up to saving maybe 3 points of Burn each instead of just 1 point.

Here's something I would like to see, possibly as a feat: the ability to HOLD SOMETHING in your hands while Gathering Power, so there would be no more weapon dropping, which COULD lead to talents/abilities to channel your blasts through a wielded weapon, stacking BOTH the weapon's properties AND the blast's properties.

Seriously, if Kinetic Blade, Kinetic Whip and Kinetic Fist were designed to substitute weapons and that Gathering Power requires both hands to be free... why give them actual weapon proficiencies or not give them the monk's unarmed strike damage equals to half their Kineticist levels (to balance) ?


Oh, I forgot:
- a feat that allows a Kinetict to learn more blasts... because Extra Wild Talent doesn't allow that. Extra/Expanded Kinetic Blast (insert new element here) wouldn't be a problem.

- a feat that allows the Kineticist to "stack" blasts per round. For instance, a 20th-level Kineticist has +15/+10/+5 for a Base Attack Bonus. Stacking a blast on round 1 would let him shoot 2 blasts, one at +15 and a second at +10 on round 2. Stacking a blast at both rounds 3 and 4 would let him shoot 3 blasts, one at +15, a 2nd at +10 and a 3rd at +5. Basically, being able to make full attacks with ranged blasts (like an archer could shoot multiple arrows), Rapid Shot, "Twinned" Blast, and TWF included, by holding off blasts. That may sound like overkill, but that wouldn't be like Gather Power to avoid Burn (a similar action would be required (hands free, standing still, etc)), but you would still be vulnerable to have your concentration disturbed. Furthermore, the damage dealt all at once on a single target could lead to Death by Massive Damage at the expense or holding back for a few rounds. Finally, Flurry of Blasts is a total mess ATM, so that would be a nice compensation.

- more counterspelling feats... because I only saw one for Cold, Electric and Fire blasts only... when there is room for the other blasts to counter similar spells.


Dragon78 wrote:
They would still do only half damage since none of the blast have the ghost touch property and the force blast is a composite blast for Aether. Incorporeal creatures take half damage from physical attacks, magic, and energy damage. The only exceptions are force effects, ghost touch weapons, and specific metamagic.

If you double dip Aether you get a force blast.


Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
They would still do only half damage since none of the blast have the ghost touch property and the force blast is a composite blast for Aether. Incorporeal creatures take half damage from physical attacks, magic, and energy damage. The only exceptions are force effects, ghost touch weapons, and specific metamagic.
If you double dip Aether you get a force blast.

Except that the Force Blast is just dumb... It's basically LIKE a simple blast, because it doesn't deal double damage LIKE a composite blast.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
They would still do only half damage since none of the blast have the ghost touch property and the force blast is a composite blast for Aether. Incorporeal creatures take half damage from physical attacks, magic, and energy damage. The only exceptions are force effects, ghost touch weapons, and specific metamagic.
If you double dip Aether you get a force blast.

Yeah, I see no reason why force blast wouldn't do full damage.


Ravingdork wrote:
Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
Dragon78 wrote:
They would still do only half damage since none of the blast have the ghost touch property and the force blast is a composite blast for Aether. Incorporeal creatures take half damage from physical attacks, magic, and energy damage. The only exceptions are force effects, ghost touch weapons, and specific metamagic.
If you double dip Aether you get a force blast.
Yeah, I see no reason why force blast wouldn't do full damage.

Agreed with your points, but it exists is my point.

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