I know it has been out for a while now but i'm still trying to wrap my head around the Advanced Class Guide - and one question as a player who often enjoys building multi-classed characters is - are there any (many?) of the ACG classes which make good dips?
Either the primary class or a specific archetype of the class?
Both ones that are good 1-2 level dips and ones which are good as a planned multi-class with other classes (perhaps to lead up to a prestige class).
For example - are there any new options for Dragon Disciple builds to consider? What about other prestige classes?
I have a PFS Lore Warden Fighter 6 / Maneuver Master Monk 1 / Rogue 3 whom I have been looking at options for his next level (possibly including also retraining one or more of his existing levels though that would be a bit complicated due to his feats). He's a high DEX / high INT build so I always intended him to have a few levels of an arcane caster class but haven't been able to decide which. (besides being a skill monkey, his other main focus is Dirty Tricks followed by two weapon fighting w/sneak attacks)
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Swashbuckler is Nice for a one level dip for everybody planning to go dex based melee.
Brawler is Nice for a two level dip on several melee guys.
Specifically inspired blade swashbuckler is a great one level dip for any dex based rapier user. Warpriest can be a good dip alternative to fighter or cleric, especially if you want to use a suboptimal weapon for flavor reasons. Bloodrager is basically barbarian plus if you are dipping.
Half-orc+something with a familiar(like bloodrager 1)+skald+amplified rage gives you a +6(8 with the bloodrager) to str and con and you can still cast while raging.
Empiricist Investigator 2 gets you int instead of Dex/Cha/Wis to a lot of good skills.
Shaman has some nice stuff for a dip with it's hexes.
Trade all/some of your rogue levels to slayer for increased combat or investigator for increased skills and some combat.
Verminous Hunter Hunter 1 can get you fast healing 1
Blood conduit bloodrager can give you a free feat
Brawler has flexible maneuvers and makes it so you don't need INT for feats.
Sacred fist Warprist/warpriest for quickened buff spells with fervor.
I'd definitely ditch the rogue levels for Empiricist Investigator then add another level next level up (Find some potions that last a long time and use alchemical allocation. Remember you only have to pay for the potion once) and your first level extracts are pretty good on their own.
I'm not sure if that's possible in PFS though
Daring Champion Cavalier 1 is also a good dip in most place you'd consider Swashbuckler 1. Deeds and Ref vs a Teamwork feat, Challenge, and Fort.
Markov Spiked Chain wrote: Daring Champion Cavalier 1 is also a good dip in most place you'd consider Swashbuckler 1. Deeds and Ref vs a Teamwork feat, Challenge, and Fort. Yes, but a major draw for some people is the parry and riposte ability in addition to the finesse and whatnot. so I agree that the Cavalier could be a good dip for some situations, I don't know if it's quite the substitution.
For a Dragon Disciple, a Blood Conduit Bloodrager can grab claws that work during all rage rounds instead of just 3+CHA/day, plus free Improved Unarmed Strike in case you're going full or partial unarmed and/or feral combat training and/or want to get into a style feat. Plus of course rage rounds with Extra Rage.
The Snakebite Striker Brawler Archetype gets 1d6 Sneak Attack at level 1, and that can be a very special ingredient in any dip.
Swashbuckler is a great dip class... But little more that. (1~3 level.is all you need. Maybe 4~5).
while Empiricist Investigator definitely sounds good I think it wouldn't be as good as my current rogue levels in my current build - as I would lose my sneak attack of 2d6 (with my fairly high BAB and massive ability to impose dirty tricks via being a Maneuver Master Monk (and having Greater Dirty Trick and a build w/items optimized for Dirty Trick) I generally blind then dish out a lot of attacks via two weapon fighting each with sneak attacks. Can be quite effective.
That said, alchemical allocation is great and as far as I know it is indeed PFS legal (though potions beyond min caster level are harder to come by). Definitely lots of good options.
(and on a practical note not sure I have the GP to retrain three full levels of rogue so dips that would require me doing so are less appealing - as would dips that aren't full BAB classes unless they have something really great to offer (Investigator may though the fact that Investigators like Alchemists don't get Detect Magic has always puzzled me - though their lack of 0-level spells is the reason and Identify is good but far less flexible)
The bounty hunter slayer archetype would fit my Dirty Trick theme but would take retraining at least one level (which would lose me a die of sneak attack) - though the ability to impose a wide array of Dirty Tricks in a single round is tempting especially if I eventually get high enough level to take the Dirty Trick Master feat... and especially since with Greater Dirty Trick removing each effect would take a standard action - so I'd lock down enemies pretty quickly...
Bolt Ace Gunslinger for any crossbow build.
Quote: Half-orc+something with a familiar(like bloodrager 1)+skald+amplified rage gives you a +6(8 with the bloodrager) to str and con and you can still cast while raging. Yeah, this is essentially one of my favorite rage mechanic toys. Alternatively, you could play a human and manage it thanks to the Racial Heritage feat, but you're essentially just getting +1 skill point per level at that point.
Brawler is a great dip. Swashbuckler is a great dip for the right build (DEX). Slayer can be a good dip.
Personally, though, I'd rather take a lot of the Advanced Class Guide classes the full distance, Bloodrager especially. I just love that class even if the name makes me wretch. (It sounds like a cheesy metal band.)
Backlash3906 wrote: Bolt Ace Gunslinger for any crossbow build. You need 5 levels for it to be worth it. It's more than a dip at that point.
Imbicatus wrote: Backlash3906 wrote: Bolt Ace Gunslinger for any crossbow build. You need 5 levels for it to be worth it. It's more than a dip at that point. 5 Levels increases damage output, but the Grit pool and Sharp Shoot deed at first level are attractive. The latter is great for when you need to hit NOW, and works with Vital Strike. Good options for magic ammo or capitalizing on buffs.
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If you and/or your DM think that using racial SLAs to qualify for prestige classes is cheese,* then there's an interesting alternative: a one level dip of Snakebite Striker Brawler gives you a head start towards qualifying for any PrC that uses Sneak Attack as a prerequisite. This is nice for an Assassin build, and it's well beyond nice for an Arcane Trickster. In fact, IMO dipping a level of Brawler moves the Trickster PrC from "flavorful, but be prepared to kinda suck for like six levels" to "totally viable!" A level of SS Brawler, a level of rogue, three levels of wizard and you're off to the races. There's nothing not to like.**
Doug M.
*it is totally cheese.
**Okay, you're giving up 4 skill ranks, Evasion, a rogue talent and trapfinding. In return, you get +1 BAB, +2 Fort, +2 hp, the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, the ability to do d6 damage with your bare hands, and an earlier SA die. And if you're going Trickster, you're getting a full! extra! level! of spellcasting. That is beyond a no-brainer. You want evasion that badly, buy the ring.
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