Oh, I forgot about the asterisk. It was a nonspecific "you".
The one meme that bugs me the most whenever I see it, the term "Viable".
"I want to make a rogue, but I need to make it viable."
Under what standards? Is there a preset DPR that must be accomplished before a character is "viable"? I personally consider every one of my characters "viable" if they have a cohesive personality that coincides with the mechanical aspects that I used to build them. A complete coming together of both story and mechanics.
I have a full rogue in a Shattered Star. She is neither the most nor least powerful, and has probably taken what may be considered wastes or trap build choices. Yet I think she's perfectly "Viable".
To me, anybody's character that functions according to the rules (and gels with the campaign style/genre) is perfectly "Viable".
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A little pet peeve (often attached to the above), the misspelling of "Statted" or "Statting". If you were to turn the word Stat into a verb, as is often done here, its tenses would not be Stating or Stated. Those are the tenses of 'State' (as in to state something, or make a statement). To 'Stat' something, would have two T's in the middle.
Playtest forums.
I usually go on hiatus when they come out.
I love the idea of an open playtest, but I would really like to see a much more rigid approach, with stated design goals and targeted discussion.
They do have a place for actual in game results, and a place for discussion(theorycrafting), but sometimes people want to theorycraft in the playtest area. That is all that annoys me about it.
The one meme that bugs me the most whenever I see it, the term "Viable".
"I want to make a rogue, but I need to make it viable."
Under what standards? Is there a preset DPR that must be accomplished before a character is "viable"? ....
I agree. I find this annoying also, but I think it goes back to many people assuming their method of playing is the default method. One thing I do like about this place is that you get to see so many different ways to play the game.
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In defense of "viable":
Personally, when I use it I don't mean "most powerful PC on the block". I mean "character that will actually mechanically live up to the image I'm wanting to roleplay".
That metric is going to vary from person to person of course. But you can't fault someone for being frustrated with, say, their unarmed martial artist never living up to what the player had in mind and seeking help for it. That goes for a lot of character concepts, many of them very common fantasy archetypes, that have proven to struggle mechanically.
Generally, I take "viable" to mean "can fulfill their role in the party and not be frustrating to play".
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I dunno that this is quite prominent or visible enough to really be a meme, but I find it both frustrating and amusing:
People who somehow managed to support both the opinion that 3PP stuff is clearly inferior to anything Paizo-published, but ALSO support the opinion that unless a game uses the OGL, it's obviously worthless.
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I dunno that this is quite prominent or visible enough to really be a meme, but I find it both frustrating and amusing:
People who somehow managed to support both the opinion that 3PP stuff is clearly inferior to anything Paizo-published, but ALSO support the opinion that unless a game uses the OGL, it's obviously worthless.
They also seem to forget that some members of the Paizo staff also make 3pp stuff, as if they forget how to make things unless they are making it for Paizo. I think that next time I see anything like this I will ask them would they buy material from Paizo dev/designer _____. Why or why not. :)
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I dunno that this is quite prominent or visible enough to really be a meme, but I find it both frustrating and amusing:
People who somehow managed to support both the opinion that 3PP stuff is clearly inferior to anything Paizo-published, but ALSO support the opinion that unless a game uses the OGL, it's obviously worthless.
I'll take it one step further and just say "Anyone who claims all 3PP stuff is clearly inferior to Paizo published stuff".
Dreamscarred Press' Psionics and to a lesser extent Path of War (it's good, but a bit wonkier than Psionics) are IMO better made and balanced than the majority of officially published stuff.
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In defense of "viable":
Personally, when I use it I don't mean "most powerful PC on the block". I mean "character that will actually mechanically live up to the image I'm wanting to roleplay".
That metric is going to vary from person to person of course. But you can't fault someone for being frustrated with, say, their unarmed martial artist never living up to what the player had in mind and seeking help for it. That goes for a lot of character concepts, many of them very common fantasy archetypes, that have proven to struggle mechanically.
Generally, I take "viable" to mean "can fulfill their role in the party and not be frustrating to play".
Same. Everyone here has their own standard of viability. It makes it hard to read some threads.
Of course, my standard is really low. I'm playing a winter witch with 14 Str and a longsword in Reign of Winter. Take that for what you will... :)
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I guess for me, the worst part about the playtest forums is that it changes the entire character of the forums while it's here. I've often found the only solution is to walk away until it's over.
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What grinds my gears. other than some of what has been stated in the last five pages?
Overuse of the terms straw man, fallacy and so on. It stops meaning what it was originally intended to mean and comes across as "I disagree with you and will dismiss you with a trite internet argument dismissal. Take that!"
At least that is how I read it. That or you just managed to make it through a class and learned the term and want to impress everyone.
I could do with less of it.
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That's just an ad hominen.What grinds my gears. other than some of what has been stated in the last five pages?
Overuse of the terms straw man, fallacy and so on. It stops meaning what it was originally intended to mean and comes across as "I disagree with you and will dismiss you with a trite internet argument dismissal. Take that!"
At least that is how I read it. That or you just managed to make it through a class and learned the term and want to impress everyone.
I could do with less of it.
*headdesk*
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Smurfing.
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What is wrong with smurfing? Guys, let's all chip in and discuss smurfs!!!
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I dunno that this is quite prominent or visible enough to really be a meme, but I find it both frustrating and amusing:
People who somehow managed to support both the opinion that 3PP stuff is clearly inferior to anything Paizo-published, but ALSO support the opinion that unless a game uses the OGL, it's obviously worthless.
A related one that grinds my gears:
Someone goes on a rant about how That (3rd party) Book should never be used because it is TOTALLY BROKEN ROLFSTOMP AND DESTROYS GAME BALANCE! Anyone who suggests using That Book is a filthy munchkin rollplayer out to destroy game balance...
...
unless it was released by Paizo, in which case it's good that it destroys game balance, because only filthy rollplaying munckin MMO playing whiners care about balance, and even using the word 'balance' as anything but a derogatory insult, let alone criticizing That Book instantly turns the game into Wuxia Anime MMO on Paper 4e!Seriously, if you don't care about game balance, fine. If you do, fine. Just be consistent.
It's even more annoying when they admit later on in the thread (or even the same post) that they haven't even read That 3rd Party Book, they are just ranting about how much they hate it anyways.
Thanks for reminding me!
Calling certain styles of play or options Weeaboo Fightan Magic always bothered me (I liked Bo9S, including its fluff). Although much like Social Justice Warrior, it's an insult that unintentionally makes the thing under attack sound way more awesome than the attacker intended.
Who wouldn't want to be a Social Justice Warrior? That sounds awesome. :D
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I'll take it one step further and just say "Anyone who claims all 3PP stuff is clearly inferior to Paizo published stuff".I dunno that this is quite prominent or visible enough to really be a meme, but I find it both frustrating and amusing:
People who somehow managed to support both the opinion that 3PP stuff is clearly inferior to anything Paizo-published, but ALSO support the opinion that unless a game uses the OGL, it's obviously worthless.
That doesn't have the same degree of irony, though.
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What is wrong with smurfing? Guys, let's all chip in and discuss smurfs!!!
It's smurfing contagious and it really smurfs me out.
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Who wouldn't want to be a Social Justice Warrior? That sounds awesome. :D
Definitely, it doesn't sound like an insult at all. This is what I think of when I hear that.
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Who wouldn't want to be a Social Justice Warrior? That sounds awesome. :DDefinitely, it doesn't sound like an insult at all. This is what I think of when I hear that.
It highlights the ridiculously misplaced self-importance of people who make up reasons to be offended on the internet pretty well to me.
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It highlights the ridiculously misplaced self-importance of people who make up reasons to be offended n the internet pretty well to me.Who wouldn't want to be a Social Justice Warrior? That sounds awesome. :DDefinitely, it doesn't sound like an insult at all. This is what I think of when I hear that.
Making up reasons to be offended is basically what the part of the internet that isn't porn is all about.
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Hey!! That is so offensive! The internet is about so much more than making up reasons to be offensive! I am totally offended by your accusation!Making up reasons to be offended is basically what the part of the internet that isn't porn is all about.It highlights the ridiculously misplaced self-importance of people who make up reasons to be offended n the internet pretty well to me.Who wouldn't want to be a Social Justice Warrior? That sounds awesome. :DDefinitely, it doesn't sound like an insult at all. This is what I think of when I hear that.
There are so many wonderful places I want to go with this. But all those roads lead to ruin.
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The "hate" threads.
Why does everyone "hate" monks/rogues/fighters/etc
If they(people mentioning hate) had bothered to pay attention they would know many of the people that speak against ____ actually want it to be improved. They(those complaining about class/feat/etc ___ ) just don't agree with Paizo's implementation of it.
Also on the list-->Why does Paizo "hate" _____
Hmm... Not sure if it's still relevant these days, but since it may wind up going down that road in another thread...
"CANNIBALISM IS EVIL!!1ONE!".
Seriously. WHERE in the rulebook does it state that consuming the flesh of sentient creatures is a morally EVIL act? It's more of a social taboo on the Law/Chaos axis.
But I'm not here to start another Cannibalism Alignment argument.
I suppose it boils down to... "THIS IS MY VIEW OF ALIGNMENT AND IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS SO TODDLE OFF YA BLOODY SOD!" is something that really... really... REALLY!... Grinds my gears smooth.
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Hmm... Not sure if it's still relevant these days, but since it may wind up going down that road in another thread...
"CANNIBALISM IS EVIL!!1ONE!".
Seriously. WHERE in the rulebook does it state that consuming the flesh of sentient creatures is a morally EVIL act? It's more of a social taboo on the Law/Chaos axis.
But I'm not here to start another Cannibalism Alignment argument.
I suppose it boils down to... "THIS IS MY VIEW OF ALIGNMENT AND IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS SO TODDLE OFF YA BLOODY SOD!" is something that really... really... REALLY!... Grinds my gears smooth.
It grinds mine when cannibalism under all circumstances is seen as evil while genocide and child murder isn't.
(has a half-orc barbarian from a culture that doesn't actively go for cannibalism, but in times of great need if someone offers their flesh it's something to be honored. Cultural alignment: CG)
((that led to some awkward moments while crossing the Crown of the World))
((("No really guys, I'm serious. If I die I'm totally fine with it. I want you to survive this. Hey, don't make that face.")))
Hmm... Not sure if it's still relevant these days, but since it may wind up going down that road in another thread...
"CANNIBALISM IS EVIL!!1ONE!".
Seriously. WHERE in the rulebook does it state that consuming the flesh of sentient creatures is a morally EVIL act? It's more of a social taboo on the Law/Chaos axis.
But I'm not here to start another Cannibalism Alignment argument.
I suppose it boils down to... "THIS IS MY VIEW OF ALIGNMENT AND IT'S THE ONLY ONE THAT MATTERS SO TODDLE OFF YA BLOODY SOD!" is something that really... really... REALLY!... Grinds my gears smooth.
It grinds mine when cannibalism under all circumstances is seen as evil while genocide and child murder isn't.
(has a half-orc barbarian from a culture that doesn't actively go for cannibalism, but in times of great need if someone offers their flesh it's something to be honored. Cultural alignment: CG)
((that led to some awkward moments while crossing the Crown of the World))
((("No really guys, I'm serious. If I die I'm totally fine with it. I want you to survive this. Hey, don't make that face.")))
I would say that it's considered evil because we as humans in the modern world would consider it to be an evil act. We used it to point out why we were superior to tribal cultures that practiced it.
While I could see someone from a tribal culture doing it and it not being considered an evil act, depending upon the circumstances, because cannibalism was most often practiced under certain circumstances. However if someone from someplace like Taldan started munching upon his dead foes without it being for a lack of any other option for food I would probably considered it an evil act, or at least a chaotic act depending upon why he was eating that person.
Whenever people play fantasy games or read fantasy books or historical fiction we want to put our modern sense of morals upon the characters. The truth is that characters from that time period or setting aren't going to have our modern morals.
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When a forum lurker favorites your post and you have no idea who they are and you've never seen them post before.
But I guess they find me cool or something so Ive got that going for me.
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Aargh.
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When a forum lurker favorites your post and you have no idea who they are and you've never seen them post before.
But I guess they find me cool or something so Ive got that going for me.
When you've been posting for a year or two and only just learn that you can click the "x people have favourited this" to find out who.
Seriously, how did I not know that? :P
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What grids my gears is when you have to defend the premise of your thread. For example...
Thread: Need Advice with Potatoes
OP: I've got these potatoes. Should I boil and mash them, or cut them and fry them in oil?
Answer #1: Why are you using potatoes; carrots are so much better anyway.
Answer #2: Raw keeps potatoes abstract, and that's the way it should be.
Answer #3: You're playing in a game with DRAGONS and MAGIC! Why are you bothering with potatoes!
... and then you spend your energy defending the premise of potatoes, knowing that you'll never get even close to know whether to mash or fry them.
:(
[edit] Oh crud, I just notice there are four pages of posts I haven't read. This probably came up before...
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That post was obvious favorite-baiting. :P
To be completely honest, I am completely serious. Drives me nuts. WHO ARE YOU AND WHY DO YOU LIKE ME?!
What's the difference between 'favorite-baiting' and 'writing good, funny/interesting/helpful posts'?
Well, except posting in a thread frequented by tacticslion, 'cause that's obviously fishing for favorites. It would not surprise me if more than half of my 'favorited by others' posts were favorited by tacticslion.
Well Tacticslion and I have a mutual stalking relationship.
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When a forum lurker favorites your post and you have no idea who they are and you've never seen them post before.
But I guess they find me cool or something so Ive got that going for me.
I was tempted to make a sockpuppet account to favorite this post.
But Grunthos the Violently Flatulent, someone with no posts, beat me to it. DAMN YOU GRUNTHOS THE VIOLENTLY FLATULENT!!!!That post was obvious favorite-baiting. :PWhat's the difference between 'favorite-baiting' and 'writing good, funny/interesting/helpful posts'?
Well, except posting in a thread frequented by tacticslion, 'cause that's obviously fishing for favorites. It would not surprise me if more than half of my 'favorited by others' posts were favorited by tacticslion.
Tacticslion sometimes even favirites my posts when I vehemently disagree with him.
Sometimes I think he has some nefarious purpose for favoriting stuff. =p
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People misspelling usernames.
It's RIGHT THERE, people!
"Rynjyn", hmph.
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There have been a few people who have favorited VERY odd posts I made. Not my usual oddness, I mean posts like me requesting that the Paizo staff cancel an order, and stuff like that.
I don't... I don't think that's me...
EDIT:
People misspelling usernames.
It's RIGHT THERE, people!
"Rynjyn", hmph.
>.>
... okay, that one's totally me.
EDIT 2:
You know, I should probably do something funny with all the "Tacticslion favorites stuff" posts, but I can't really come up with any one thing (there's really just way too many angles to take on it!), and now it's just sitting there all awkward and not doing something funny like "I shall take over the world!" or something... dang it! :P :D
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I may get a few tomatoes thrown my way but I was ridiculously excited when SKR favorited one of my posts.
I may get a few tomatoes thrown my way but I was ridiculously excited when SKR favorited one of my posts.
I KNOW, RIGHT?!
MAN SQUEE~!
In my case, though, it was more like "Brandon Hodges says something ambiguous about one of my posts, but also that Todd Stewart did so...
EDIT: HOLY CRUMBLE FISH, I FOUND ONE
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When a forum lurker favorites your post and you have no idea who they are and you've never seen them post before.
But I guess they find me cool or something so Ive got that going for me.
I was tempted to make a sockpuppet account to favorite this post.
But Grunthos the Violently Flatulent, someone with no posts, beat me to it. DAMN YOU GRUNTHOS THE VIOLENTLY FLATULENT!!!!That post was obvious favorite-baiting. :PWhat's the difference between 'favorite-baiting' and 'writing good, funny/interesting/helpful posts'?
Well, except posting in a thread frequented by tacticslion, 'cause that's obviously fishing for favorites. It would not surprise me if more than half of my 'favorited by others' posts were favorited by tacticslion.
I thought I was special. I guess not. <sighs>
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I may get a few tomatoes thrown my way but I was ridiculously excited when SKR favorited one of my posts.I KNOW, RIGHT?!
MAN SQUEE~!
In my case, though, it was more like "Brandon Hodges says something ambiguous about one of my posts, but also that Todd Stewart did so...
EDIT: HOLY CRUMBLE FISH, I FOUND ONE
I still don't know how to process the fact that my post that has the most faves by RPG professionals, some of them long-time heroes going back as far as 2nd Edition, was a me/book slash fic.
Seriously. I still don't know if I should be proud or ashamed.
I'd say the former. Definitely.
(And I'd love to see that post again, because it's great!)
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I'd say the former. Definitely.
(And I'd love to see that post again, because it's great!)