Pathfinder Forums Memes that Grind Your Gears


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Opinions that must come from Paizo staff members (even staff not presiding over the material in question) in order to be meaningful.

Adversarial analysis of characters: class A can beat up class B, therefore it is better.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
magnuskn wrote:

"Murderhobo". No other term on this forum gets my hackles up like this one.

I already feel that gamers in general tend to verbally punch themselves in the face way too often. But this is one of those concepts which, if you'd explain it to anyone who is not a gamer, would just confirm every stereotype "normal" people have about gamers.

Aside from that, the concept of a "murderhobo" is disgusting and offensive. It's very probably just me, but when someone refers unironically to their character or group as "murderhobo(s)", I cringe in disgust.

I was following up until the point where you mentioned people referring to their own characters/parties as murderhobos. I thought the term was generally used by people pointing out a method of playing that they don't like.

Oh, no, some people unironically refer to their playstyle as "murderhobo'ing".


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
Adversarial analysis of characters: class A can beat up class B, therefore it is better.

But... but... that's why my dad is better than your dad. Why can't it be the reason my class is better than yours?

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Here's one I see from time to time:
Jumping into a thread to point out that DPR isn't everything and can't tell you how useful your character is... in response to someone using DPR to help someone decide between Weapon Focus and Furious Focus.

Dark Archive

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I could do with less "ninja'd!" when someone posts the same answer ahead of you.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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I could do with less "ninja'd!" when someone posts the same answer ahead of you.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

The Exchange

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A few years back I was going through some serious stress in my life. It got so bad I even started getting stressed and caught up in stuff on these boards. I had to leave the threads as it really was becoming an issue for me.

In those days there were sooooooo many things that used to bug me.

Now days I've actually come to a really calm place again. So now, I find the things that used to bug me just went away.

I post in threads that interest me at times with the intention of sharing my perspective, but I find I occasionally upset folks even without meaning to.

I guess to get back on topic, I memes are getting you upset or frustrated sometimes it's a good idea to take a step away and remember this is just a game played by large numbers of people, all of whom play different to you. Not really worth getting frustrated over.

Rambled a bit there. I had a point when I started, but typing this with my 8 year old boy here who is renowned for the number of questions he can ask in under a minute. I may have lost the point somewhere :)


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I get tired of the "This is too powerful this is too weak threads" and the dire warnings of class, spell, feat, ability, etc bloat threads.


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Jiggy wrote:

Oh, just got reminded of another one:

When posters call people idiots or otherwise assault those who disagree with them, then their posts get deleted, and the poster attributes it to Paizo not wanting them to express inconvenient opinions or some such thing, or otherwise acts like the mods are out to get them.

The mods must be out to get me!

Do you see any of the posts I've made in this thread prior to this one? No? Must mean they were all deleted! The mods are out to get me!
Now sure, I didn't actually make any posts in this thread prior to this one, so the fact that they were all deleted is only vacuously true, and there would be no way for the mods not to delete all zero of them...

but I only refrained from posting in this thread earlier because I knew my posts would all be deleted anyways! THE MODS MUST BE OUT TO GET ME!


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Six Degrees of Bash the Rogue.

-Matt


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Well, they do suck, pretty badly.

(I mean, that one guy I rolled up, just kept nat 1'ing his attack rolls with the sand tube filled with poison...)


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Devils advocate and/or acting willfully obtuse.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Mattastrophic wrote:

Six Degrees of Bash the Rogue.

-Matt

Could you define "bash"? The ideas I have in my head of what it means to "bash" are things that really only apply to words directed at a person, so I'd like to get a clearer understanding of what you're actually meaning here.


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I generally mean "the orc has scent, thus immediately detects the Rogue, and, though Rogue goes first, misses his attack (which isn't a sneak attack anyway), and then the orc uses his great club on the rogue. The rogue dies. Again." You know: bashing.

This is obviously a joke. Clearly, that link is about bards.


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Muad'Dib wrote:

Devils advocate and/or acting willfully obtuse.

I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. Could you explain why you think this is a problem?

See the blue text in Tacticslion's previous post.


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Tacticslion wrote:

Well, they do suck, pretty badly.

(I mean, that one guy I rolled up, just kept nat 1'ing his attack rolls with the sand tube filled with poison...)

*grindgrindgrindgrind*

-Matt


Muad'Dib wrote:
Devils advocate

Hey! That poster isn't so ba-

Muad'Dib wrote:
acting willfully obtuse

Hey! I'm right here you know!


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Muad'Dib wrote:
Devils advocate and/or acting willfully obtuse.

I do want to say, though - and, though it seems like it, I'm not actually joking - that the whole "devil's advocate" thing, while it can be annoying, sometimes produces good or very interesting conversations and allows me to see things from a perspective that I might not have been able to previously.

That's actually something valuable. Sometimes it's annoying, but sometimes it's really great, even when I disagree with the given position.

Yes, I realize I'm kind of being a devil's advocate, of sorts, for the idea of a devil's advocate, but I absolutely promise, this isn't a troll or a joke or anything like that. I'm being honest here.


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Ok. So you saw an argument where one side was the Devil, and you were like "Man, that guy could use an advocate."

Dark Archive

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Thymus Vulgaris wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:
Don't do X, whatever you do!
Can I do XXX?

What happens in the Calistrian temple, stays in the Calistrian temple.


Thymus Vulgaris wrote:
Tacticslion wrote:

Hey, now, X is some strong stuff. It'll mess you up, if you're not careful - you definitely shouldn't X. Just look what happned to a perfectly innocent mixture! Then it mutated! And again! O.o

Don't do X, whatever you do!

Can I do XXX?

I thought I just did! There were three X links in that post...


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Hands down the biggest trouble I've had in the threads is when I'm brainstorming a concept for a rule change and instead get a combination of comments on how horrible my idea is without explaining why, followed by a hundred other posts describing how they'd personally handle it and their way is hands down phenominally better than my way. For... Reasons...

It's happened so often and so reliably that I no longer even look at the homebrew section of any forum anymore. For some reason 'lets explore my idea' sounds a lot like 'lets shoot down my idea so I can hear your idea instead' to a lahohohohohot of people.

Got really old really fast. I now have an immediate negative reaction to anyone who says 'I'm a game designer' especially if it's followed by 'so listen to me'.


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Using the quoting system and then editing what someone said and throwing a "fixed it for you" in there is annoying, disrespectful, and simply reeks of arrogance.

SomeoneIDisagreeWith wrote:
Summarizing their points in a condescending manner via edited quotes, such as "blah blah blah I'm a dirty min-maxer" is also bad form

And it will probably happen to me here as a result of pointing it out


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thegreenteagamer wrote:
WORDS.

Summarized that for you.

In the least helpful way possible.


Can someone answer the phone already? Cause I called that $#!+

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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thegreenteagamer wrote:
Can someone answer the phone already? Cause I called that $#!+

I feel like there's a joke here somewhere about holding a ringing turd up to your face and saying hello, but I'm not sure how to execute it.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Jiggy wrote:
I feel like there's a joke here somewhere about holding a ringing turd up to your face and saying hello, but I'm not sure how to execute it.

However you do it, just put it out of its misery.


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Vincent Takeda wrote:

Hands down the biggest trouble I've had in the threads is when I'm brainstorming a concept for a rule change and instead get a combination of comments on how horrible my idea is without explaining why, followed by a hundred other posts describing how they'd personally handle it and their way is hands down phenominally better than my way. For... Reasons...

It's happened so often and so reliably that I no longer even look at the homebrew section of any forum anymore. For some reason 'lets explore my idea' sounds a lot like 'lets shoot down my idea so I can hear your idea instead' to a lahohohohohot of people.

Got really old really fast. I now have an immediate negative reaction to anyone who says 'I'm a game designer' especially if it's followed by 'so listen to me'.

Conversely -- and not directed at you Vincent, but inspired by your comment -- when someone posts a house rule for discussion that has an enormous footprint in the rules, then responds to any feedback on that as hostility, as though you're meant to assume the rule will work and congratulate the poster. Since I've been this person, I'll use an example: proposing damage penalty systems that affect attack rolls but not spell casting.

Obviously, the first point of feedback for such a person, if you're trying to be helpful, is to point out that footprint. But sometimes it's so huge and obvious, I get exhausted trying to explain it and give up.

On a related note, I also hate when people post house rules for discussion and don't state the reason they are making the change! It's impossible to evaluate whether a rule works or breaks the game unless you know what it's intended to do...

I've definitely been guilty of all this stuff, way back. That's what makes it so hard to see it happening to other posters!


Oh, here's one: people who love Pathfinder but hate Vancian spellcasting. (again, that was me, once)

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Posters who seems to hate alignment, hit points, Vancian casting, SoD/SoS spells, yet still insist on playing Pathfinder bug me - I mean, there are plenty of games out there, why not pick one that has elements you actually like?

Memes that annoy me:
"The rogue is unplayable! Why not play an NPC class if you play a rogue!"
"No one plays above level 12 anyway!/High levels are unplayable!/High levels are pure rocket tag!"
"All games of Pathfidner are murderhobo style games."

These don't annoy me when backed up by good arguments - but all too often they are presented as The Truth(TM) and you are foolish for daring to question the great wisdom of the boards, because everybody just knows they are True.

Basically any time someone states that their personal opinion/playstyle is the only real way to play it gets on my nerves. I try to avoid doing this myself - I can get strident arguing for my case but I try to step back when I see myself doing that and remember to add in lines that validate other's experiences. If you're having fun you're not playing wrong.


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thegreenteagamer wrote:
Using the quoting system and then editing what someone said and throwing a "fixed it for you" in there is annoying, disrespectful, and simply reeks of arrogance.

Sweet tapdancing hell on a stick, this this this this this.

Shadow Lodge

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I wrote:
I don't play Pathfinder because it's good, I play Pathfinder because it's popular.


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Mythic Evil Lincoln wrote:
Oh, here's one: people who love Pathfinder but hate Vancian spellcasting. (again, that was me, once)

Okay this one I'm guilty of, and proud to say so. IMO most of the many other spellcasting system that've been brought into the 3.5/PF mechanics (psionic power points, warlock/dragonfire adept invocations, pact magic [both the 3.5 binder and 3rd-party occultist versions], incarnum/akashic mysteries, and a handful of others... really the only "new" systems I felt *didn't* work out were shadowcasting and truenaming) just feel personally like they present the idea of spellcasting as it's depicted in nearly every other medium just plain better than the slot system. Spont-casting default classes come a little closer, but there's a reason I just can't stand most prepared caster classes in 3.5/PF. [/soapbox]

ryric wrote:
Posters who seems to hate alignment, hit points, Vancian casting, SoD/SoS spells, yet still insist on playing Pathfinder bug me - I mean, there are plenty of games out there, why not pick one that has elements you actually like?

Generally I think it's because they dislike one or two elements of the system but like most/all of the rest, and excising/replacing the handful of things they dislike is easier or more palatable to the rest of their group than learning an entire new system that may or may not have just as many holes of its own.

EDIT: ... or what TOZ said. It's the only game they can get a group together to play, so they try to tweak it to make it what they want, but still able to get people to join them. Cause it's really no fun playing alone.

Me personally I like PF, I think it's a good game (better than the other options I've tried anyway, and I have no interest at this point in learning yet another new system), I just think it's one that each group should be willing to tweak and adjust to fit their play style.


^ That one! :D

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

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Orthos wrote:


ryric wrote:
Posters who seems to hate alignment, hit points, Vancian casting, SoD/SoS spells, yet still insist on playing Pathfinder bug me - I mean, there are plenty of games out there, why not pick one that has elements you actually like?

Generally I think it's because they dislike one or two elements of the system but like most/all of the rest, and excising/replacing the handful of things they dislike is easier or more palatable to the rest of their group than learning an entire new system that may or may not have just as many holes of its own.

That's fair enough. I've just seen posters who never seem to say anything positive about any aspect of the system. It's more that type I'm referring to. It's one thing to dislike, say, alignment. But if you dislike alignment and class based systems and spell slots and magic item proliferation and x and y and z... I have to wonder.


The meme that grinds my gears most are those that go on and on about DPR and mechanical optimization. Ugh. To me, that's the least interesting part of Pathfinder, and screams WRONGBADFUN!

But the other thing that really grinds my gears is when a poster tells another that the way play the game is WRONGBADFUN.

Catch-22!

My solution this cognitive dissonance is to avoid the Rules and Advice forums as much as humanly possible.


I have them triangled up =) Does wonders for blood pressure.


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As for stuff that bugs me... people who say others should not use certain houserules, alternate game methods, or leveling restrictions such as E6 because it somehow violates the intended design of the devs who certainly know better what they're doing than some podunk player or GM.


I also tire pretty quickly of being sold on the ideas of e6 or the forge of combat and folks talking about how bad non casters are compared to casters. True or not, the conversation has gotten way old for me personally. I'm not bringing it up to be contrary to orthos's post... simply that orthos's post includes mention of e6 which reminded me of e6 and how I get annoyed at how often it comes up and the reasons why it was created and comes up often.

Thats a trouble I only run into here specifically on the paizo threads though.


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When people relentless plug their own house rules as the solution to common complaints about basic game rules... oh, wait, no.


Vincent Takeda wrote:

I also tire pretty quickly of being sold on the ideas of e6 or the forge of combat and folks talking about how bad non casters are compared to casters. True or not, the conversation has gotten way old for me personally. I'm not bringing it up to be contrary to orthos's post... simply that orthos's post includes mention of e6 which reminded me of e6 and how I get annoyed at how often it comes up and the reasons why it was created and comes up often.

Thats a trouble I only run into here specifically on the paizo threads though.

I'm sad that we still have to have the conversations about martial/caster issues. I think they they are old too, but I'm not willing to let them go, in the hopes that some day I can play a mundane with story agency granted by the rules and not a benevolent GM.


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Haladir wrote:

The meme that grinds my gears most are those that go on and on about DPR and mechanical optimization. Ugh. To me, that's the least interesting part of Pathfinder, and screams WRONGBADFUN!

But the other thing that really grinds my gears is when a poster tells another that the way play the game is WRONGBADFUN.

Catch-22!

My solution this cognitive dissonance is to avoid the Rules and Advice forums as much as humanly possible.

I am probably one of the biggest proponents of DPR on the boards, but I advocate DPR as a method for balancing consideration, not as a method for build exploitation.

I think that people see DPR and don't see the context, just like a bull and a red cape.

Liberty's Edge

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A new one.

Posters who complain about posters who seems to hate alignment, hit points, Vancian casting, SoD/SoS spells. While also telling them to leave and play another game.

A message board is simply not a echo chamber. Don't like a certain topic don't post in it. And no your not doing Paizo or yourselves or the hobby any favors by doing so either.


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People who come to these boards and talk about playing Dungeons & Dragons and insist on calling it Pathfinder, why in my day...

Oh and old grognards coming along in a thread claiming that their being an old grognard means anything other than the fact that you are old, and a grognard.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

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Oh, here's one:

Naming objects in the backwards, index-friendly format they saw in a chart. Things like "crossbow, heavy".

The only reason to ever name something backwards like that is so that similar entries in an alphabetized list will be next to each other. It is not the actual name of the thing.


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"WRONGBADFUN". It's like "ASAP" or "Been there, done that".

Shadow Lodge

WRONGBADFUN is BADWRONGFUN!!

Shadow Lodge

Jiggy wrote:

Naming objects in the backwards, index-friendly format they saw in a chart. Things like "crossbow, heavy".

The only reason to ever name something backwards like that is so that similar entries in an alphabetized list will be next to each other. It is not the actual name of the thing.

Ah, wait a second. Do you mean some people will actually say "My paladin Joe uses his longsword for melee attacking and his crossbow, heavy, for ranged attacking." ????


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Avatar-1 wrote:
Jiggy wrote:

Naming objects in the backwards, index-friendly format they saw in a chart. Things like "crossbow, heavy".

The only reason to ever name something backwards like that is so that similar entries in an alphabetized list will be next to each other. It is not the actual name of the thing.

Ah, wait a second. Do you mean some people will actually say "My paladin Joe uses his longsword for melee attacking and his crossbow, heavy, for ranged attacking." ????

Yea, when GM, The tries to ask players, the what they do on turns, their, players, one of the, will inevitably say something like

"On turn, my, I fire crossbow, heavy, with my bonus, ranged attack of ..."

I have no idea if that ever happens out loud, but I have seen what Jiggy is describing written in forum posts a couple times.

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