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Would the Cornugon Smash and Hurtful feats stack?
Cornugon Smash (Combat)
Prerequisites: Power Attack, Intimidate 6 ranks.
Benefit: When you damage an opponent with a Power Attack, you may make an immediate Intimidate check as a free action to attempt to demoralize your opponent.
Hurtful (Combat)
Prerequisite(s): Str 13, Power Attack.
Benefit(s): When you successfully demoralize an opponent within your melee reach with an Intimidate check, you can make a single melee attack against that creature as a swift action. If your attack fails to damage the target, its shaken condition from being demoralized immediately ends.
Looks to me like;
Standard action - Successful attack with PA, which gives me;
Free action - CS for demoralize is successful which allows;
Swift action - Hurtful for extra attack
If that works thats awesome
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And then there is Visceral Threat (Combat);
Your ability to threaten foes is great enough to make them hesitate.
Prerequisite(s): Intimidating Prowess.
Benefit(s): You may use Intimidate, rather than Bluff, to attempt a feint against a creature within your melee reach.
Which makes Intimidating Prowess look better and better...
Would the Cornugon Smash and Hurtful feats stack?
** spoiler omitted **
Looks to me like;
Standard action - Successful attack with PA, which gives me;
Free action - CS for demoralize is successful which allows;
Swift action - Hurtful for extra attack
Looks good. Use a weapon with the Cruel enchantment and your extra attack, if it hits, will upgrade the Shaken condition to Sickened.
Looks good. Use a weapon with the Cruel enchantment and your extra attack, if it hits, will upgrade the Shaken condition to Sickened.Would the Cornugon Smash and Hurtful feats stack?
** spoiler omitted **
Looks to me like;
Standard action - Successful attack with PA, which gives me;
Free action - CS for demoralize is successful which allows;
Swift action - Hurtful for extra attack
Lordy, lordy, that's a freaking awesome +1 enchantment for intimidate builds. Shaken AND Sickened. The casters will swoon at your character's presence.
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Would the Cornugon Smash and Hurtful feats stack?
** spoiler omitted **
Looks to me like;
Standard action - Successful attack with PA, which gives me;
Free action - CS for demoralize is successful which allows;
Swift action - Hurtful for extra attack
It's even better than that. You don't have to use a standard action. You can full attack and STILL get the extra attack through hurtful.
Yeah, when I heard of Hurtful, this was the first combo that came to mind!
Finally a way to move 10ft and actually deal decent damage! Not as good as a full attack, of course... But still enough to make martials a real threat even when they have to move 10ft or more. :)
Also pairs well with Staggering Blow Vital Strike. Ouch.
Domain Strike: Destructive Smite technically already did this, but this has the advantage of not getting one involved in long discussions about rules...
Also pairs well with Staggering Blow Vital Strike. Ouch.
My goodness that would be a nasty combo.
So you make a single attack as a standard action invoking Power Attack, Vital Strike, and Staggering Blow. You do take penalties to hit from Power Attack and Staggering Blow.
If you hit, then Power Attack and Vital Strike both increase your damage. Now Cornugon Smash lets you use intimidate to impose the shaken condition, Staggered Blow lets you impose the staggered condition (Fort save), and Hurtful lets you make another attack as a swift action.
If you hit with that second attack, then Power Attack boosts your damage, while the Cruel Enchantment imposes the sickened condition (no save).
Shaken: –2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
Sickened: -2 on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.
Staggered: No full round actions.
And you still have a move action left!
Now we just have to find which classes synergize with this best.
Steelblood Bloodragers gain heavy armor proficiency too, so you don't need Dexterity as much, further allowing you to increase other stats as needed (PFS legal too).
As for the Bloodrager bloodlines that give intimidating prowess, we've got Abyssal, Destined, Fey, Infernal, and Undead.
Destined Bloodline looks very nice.
Oracle 1 / Barbarian or Bloodrager X: lame curse for fatigue immunity, Nature revelation to focus on Strength & Charisma, Rage cycle with Furious Finish.
Another combo: Orc weapon expertise: Choose the thug bonus. Add enforcer. Each of your attacks deals 1 point of nonlethal which triggers enforcer which triggers hurtful if successful. As orc weapon expertise only works with the orc double axe it works best with ranger and slayer for a lot of attacks while TWF then change your grip to make the extra attack two handed.
Dot
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I went crossblooded bloodrager with aberrant and abyssal. Take horsechopper or glaive, greater trip, power attack, cornugon smash, hurtful, combat reflexes, iron will, and intimidating prowess.
Suddenly you have a 25' reach, trip (and attack) everything that comes near you (or up to 50' away from your caster), give everyone AoOs, debuff, and THEN take five attacks (you hasted when you raged, right?).
Edit: Oh... and did I mention that you deal 1d10+41 on each of those attacks?
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I went crossblooded bloodrager with aberrant and abyssal. Take horsechopper or glaive, greater trip, power attack, cornugon smash, hurtful, combat reflexes, iron will, and intimidating prowess.
Suddenly you have a 25' reach, trip (and attack) everything that comes near you (or up to 50' away from your caster), give everyone AoOs, debuff, and THEN take five attacks (you hasted when you raged, right?).
Edit: Oh... and did I mention that you deal 1d10+41 on each of those attacks?
A couple problems.
First off, you can only use a swift action during your turn, so this isn't happening as an Attack of Opportunity. Second, bloodragers can't haste as they rage until they are very high level.
Now long arm on the rage is certainly possible.
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There are zero problems. I didn't say anything about using a swift action during the attack of opportunity.
Second, what? I saw speaking from a level 11 or 12 perspective (you won't have all the feats before then). You can certainly haste by then. Not that it really matters, because the wizard or sorcerer should have that covered anyway, to be honest.
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The classes that do this best don't have a huge number of inherent swift action options. I don't think a standard inquisitor is best for this, but a sanctified slayer might do it well, especially with the ability to combine Shatter Defences with sneak attack.Standard inquisitor actually uses significantly fewer swift actions than a sanctified slayer (1 per combat for judgement vs 1 per enemy for sanctified slayer). I am actually playing a standard inquisitor and am planning on picking this up right now. Even with bane, I don't use a ton of swift actions, as I am fairly conservative with bane. I guess if you favor litany spells it could be an issue, but theres always alternative good spells.
Sanctified Slayer's Studied Target gives you a bonus to Intimidate, though, doesn't it?
Both are in the Bugbear section -> New Rules -> Bugbear Feats. Hurtful is on page 20, and Visceral Threat is on page 21.
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Follow up question.
The Rake ability
This ability replaces trapfinding.
The Rake hits a flanked foe and forgoes sneak attack damage for the free intimidate. Hurtful allows an extra attack. Would the follow up attack from the successful extra attack deal sneak attack damage?
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Definitely. The rake is still flanking, right? So it gets sneak attack on whatever melee attacks it makes.
Seconding this. I am not 100% clear if it does FULL Sneak Attack damage, though. It seems like it would only be reduced for the attack that caused the Intimidate check in the first place, but it doesn't specify if it's just for THAT attack, or the whole attack action.
Another idea is a lvl of rogue (thug). Your first attack hits, causing them to be shaken (with +1 duration) then your second one hits to make them frightened.
Them being shaken means making them frightened is easier and with the cruel enchant, shaken, frightened and sickened is nasty :)
Also check out hobgoblin fell rider cavalier :)
2 Levels of Cavalier of the Order of the Cockatrice, aka Cockalier gives Dazzling Display as a bonus feat sans prereqs, the ability to use it as a standard action and, most importantly a +2 bonus to hit demoralized targets, which combined with the AC penalty from shaken almost guarantees the second hit.
I was looking at a rogue thug 1/snakebite brawler build that seems promising.
You get sneak attack (make that hurtful feat really cause pain) with a nearly full BAB.
Hurtful is your only realy swift actions.
This build sadly does not allow for a timely sap adept & master (earliest i can see it being worth getting is lvl 9), as well as denying you the feat slots to get improved feint at a decent level (which ends up making one of your class abilities useless)
there is one thing that i am questioning. Is the free attack you receive from the hurtful feat at full BAB? or same BAB as the attack triggered the feat?
example: I have BAB +6/+1, and lets assume for simplicity that i have no other bonuses to attack. I full attack doing non-lethal damage. My first attack misses but my second attack hits. my free intimidate from enforcer then happens. It succeeds and now i have a free attack. So do I hit again at the +1 to match the attack bonus i had from the attack that triggered the free hit; or do i get a +6 atk bonus because that would be my full BAB.
In most cases it says "make attack at full BAB" or something along those lines in the feat description. but this one lacks that. Probably because it is a monster feat and iterative attacks is not a thing with natural weapons; or it was created under the assumption that the feat would not be used as part of a full attack. but either way i was hoping to get some educated guesses as to what the attack bonus might be.
EDIT: under the same school of thought, with multiple weapons/natural weapons, do you have to make the free attack with the same weapon that triggered the free attack? (hit with claw, can i use a bite as my free attack)
Free attacks are normally made at full BAB. Examples are attacks of opportunities. Natural attacks are also going to used the highest BAB since they can not access iterative attacks.
It does not say which weapon you have to use so as of now you can use any weapon you want.
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One of my players built a Reach fighter with this, Cornugan Smash, and Pushing Assault. His fighter full-attacks an enemy, then (if they were intimidated) uses Hurtful and Pushing Assault to deal some extra damage and push his foe away. Against non-reach builds they have to pass through his threatened area every turn and denies them a full attack.