Mage Armor works, Bracers of Armor does not because of the rules and only because of the rules. What makes sense does not necessarily have any bearing on the rules. :)
Or put them on after wild shape. If the form you have taken has a wrist slot then you are good to go (Animal Archive has what available slots different animals have).
Bracers resize to fit the wearer.
Size and Magic Items
When an article of magic clothing or jewelry is discovered, most of the time size shouldn’t be an issue. Many magic garments are made to be easily adjustable, or they adjust themselves magically to the wearer. Size should not keep characters of various kinds from using magic items. There may be rare exceptions, especially with race specific items.
True, but that was not the OP's topic. :)
with the exception of armor ... bonuses, which cease to function
Last time I checked bracers of armor gave armor bonuses.
Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus yep yep still an armor bonus.
Well equipment with those types of bonuses stop working in wild shape. There isn't a way around this. Now you are allowed to be equipped with gear once in your new form.
RAW says "armor and shield bonuses", not "worn armor or shields". Bracers of armor grant an armor bonus. They don't work when polymorphed, full stop. JJ discussed the "why", not the "what"; the "what" is right there in the Core Rulebook.
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They provide an Armor Effect, which means they're treated as armor with regards to the wildshape rules.
Not true, as they provide force effect. They even are not ignored by incorporeal attacks, which is explicitly written in the attack entry.
RAW says "armor and shield bonuses", not "worn armor or shields". Bracers of armor grant an armor bonus. They don't work when polymorphed, full stop. JJ discussed the "why", not the "what"; the "what" is right there in the Core Rulebook.
RAW says "Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force". And then the field is "granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8". It more looks like they apply a mage armor on you, not provide an armor bonus...
mage armor provides an armor bonus. sorry mate, that line of reasoning doesnt pan out
mage armor provides an armor bonus. sorry mate, that line of reasoning doesnt pan out
The very first line of the quoted text is "items".
Fully aware thanks, I'm not arguing for it. I'm talking about the post above mine, where the OP was talking about the item casting a mage armor spell above you. was saying even if it did, doesnt matter, because armor bonuses dont apply.
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If you had a “constant mage armor” magic item, wild shape would turn it off even though mage armor the spell is fine.
Why? The item provides the mage armor effect, not the ac bonus. So the Wild shape has nothing to do with it.
RAW: "Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function)." The effect is not an armor bonus, it is a force effect.
The problem here is if the bracers provide an armor bonus or a force effect.
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No, it isn't. You're trying to make it complicated because if you don't then your point looks obviously ridiculous. The problem is it isn't complicated and your point is ridiculous.
What kind of bonus do bracers supply? Armor. Full stop right there. It doesn't matter that their armor bonus is force effect any more than it matters than your basic armor has fortification, they're both still providing an armor bonus and turn off.
Please, read the sentence:
"When you put it on fire this substance surrounds you with dense smoke, granting everyoone inside concealment".What does the substance do? It surrounds you with smoke. Does the substance provide concealment? No, the smoke does. It is ridiculous to say that the substance provides concealment, isn't it?
Now let's read another sentence:
"Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8"
What do the bracers do? They surround the wearer with force field. Do the bracers provide armor bonus? No, the field does.
Does the polymorph effect interfere with the force field? No, because it is not melded into the new form.
This is how it is written. Do I miss something?
Ask your DM to change the rules for you if you want. I mean you're already playing one of the most powerful classes in the game, why shouldn't they make it stronger to suit you? Balance is over rated after all.
I am not speaking about power or balance here, I want to clarify the rules as they are written in the book. These rules are general for all polymorph spells, by the way.
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The rules are clear:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses
and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form.
To repeat and point out it: "armor and shield bonuses", not armor and shield.
They surround
the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor.
...
Bracers of armor must have at least a +1 armor bonus to grant an armor special ability. Bracers of armor cannot have any armor special abilities that add a flat gp amount to their cost. Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not grant their armor bonus or their armor special abilities.
As you see the bracers description say a few times that they give an armor bonus. What you cite is how they give it, but that is irrelevant for the discussion. Even if it were to say "they conjure a 3 yards thick wall of polystyrene around you" it will be irrelevant for the polymorph rules. What matter is that it is an armor bonus. So you don't get it, as the rules stop items giving armor bonus from functioning.
You can not like them, but that don't change how they work.
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Even if it were to say "they conjure a 3 yards thick wall of polystyrene around you" it will be irrelevant for the polymorph rules. What matter is that it is an armor bonus.
I'm afraid that it does matter. In your example the conjured "3 yards thick wall of polystyrene around you" is not subject to the polymorph restrictions as it is not melded into the form. Only the bracers are melded and thus are subject to the polymorhp restriction, everything they conjure is not. That is why the Mage Armor works with the polymprph.
As you see the bracers description say a few times that they give an armor bonus.
This is more convincing, thanks. At least for the RAI.
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Even if it were to say "they conjure a 3 yards thick wall of polystyrene around you" it will be irrelevant for the polymorph rules. What matter is that it is an armor bonus.I'm afraid that it does matter. In your example the conjured "3 yards thick wall of polystyrene around you" is not subject to the polymorph restrictions as it is not melded into the form. Only the bracers are melded and thus are subject to the polymorhp restriction, everything they conjure is not. That is why the Mage Armor works with the polymprph.
You don't get it.
You are fixated on the "how it does it", but for the polymorph rules, what matters are two things: 1) "It is generated by an item" and 2) "what bonus is it".
If it is a magic item that constantly generates a wall of force that gives an armor bonus it doesn't work.
If it is a pendant that constantly conjures a wall of polystyrene that gives an armor bonus it doesn't work.
And so on.
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You are fixated on the "how it does it", but for the polymorph rules, what matters are two things: 1) "It is generated by an item" and 2) "what bonus is it".
But to apply those rules this item also should be a part of your gear that was melded into your body, isn't it? You just do not apply those rules to other things. For example you can put the bracers (or barding) on after you was polymorphed. And the items do not lose the armor bonus.
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Full plate armor also doesn’t directly provide an armor bonus, but it does create an “invisible but tangible field of” electromagnetic force surrounding each of the iron atoms
Unfortunately, this is not written in the rules :- ) "Each type of armor grants an armor bonus to Armor Class, while shields grant a shield bonus to Armor Class"
But to apply those rules this item also should be a part of your gear that was melded into your body, isn't it?Nope. Literally the only thing that matters is bonus type and is it an item.
So, do you insist that this rule should be applied to all items, including those lying on the floor or at other players posession?
Here is the RAW: "When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you ... all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form."So, 1) the things not from your gear are unaffected by melding 2) things that are not melded and do not require activation are not mentioned by the rule, thus function normally. 3) If the melded, non-activated thing provided armor bonus, it stops doing so (with other effects functioning).
You keep trying to interject "but" into it. There is no room for "but" that's raw.
I'm not inserting anything, I just provide citations and read them word by word.
The reason for this is because polymorph does it's thing when the spell is cast. After the spell is cast items no longer meld. Why? Because that's RAW.
That is exactly what I am saying. The rule refers only to the things that are melded. Items that are not melded are unaffected.
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RAW the bracers shut off because they're an armor bonus.
In world physics it would make more sense to me if they kept working Armor stops working because you're not wearing it anymore: your helmet isn't blocking blows to the head anymore because it IS your head now. The bracers should be able to generate their force effect no matter what like most permanent items do their thing.
However i don't think it matters much because bracers of armor are so ridiculously expensive compared to keeping up a mage armor (either via use magic device and a wand or handing your party wizard a pearl of power) and won't improve it at all till they hit +5, or just snagging barding for your favorite combat form. Studded leaf armor at 500 +150 +1,000 has a +4 armor bonus the same as a 16k bracers.
It isn't usually worth that Slyme, read Flutter's post above. It does cost that, certainly.
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But to apply those rules this item also should be a part of your gear that was melded into your body, isn't it? You just do not apply those rules to other things. For example you can put the bracers (or barding) on after you was polymorphed. And the items do not lose the armor bonus.
You are fixated on the "how it does it", but for the polymorph rules, what matters are two things: 1) "It is generated by an item" and 2) "what bonus is it".
Yes, if you don the item after polymorphing it work without problems. You can even activate items that you have don after polymorphing if you can take the appropriate action.
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Wildshaping Druids are OP enough...giving them easy access bonus AC is just asking for trouble...
Why do you think the Wild enchantment is worth a +3 modifier to armor?
Because it's being valued as if it were necessary for the druid to have an armor bonus but it really isn't. You just show up at the armorer in velociraptor form with a note pinned around your neck "one suit of leaf armor please" and a bag of gold in your teeth.
Want fuel?
Sentence is "armor and shield bonus", not "armor bonus, and also shield bonus".
If I were to nitpicking rules, I'd say "armor" doesn't work anymore, and "shield bonus" doesn't work anymore... which means that "armor bonus" still works, as well as shields (without their AC bonus).
Further afield: "...which cease to function". What does that mean exactly? If the "armor" ceases to function, you lose all its benefits (AC, but also other magic abilities). If the "armor bonus" ceases to function, you lose the armor bonus... but not Shadow, Slick, etc. Right? Same for shields.
My guess is that they made/copy/pasted rules (with excuses: I do the same, and I don't deal with 600-pages rulebooks) about armors and shields. And when someone complained about the Bracers, they referred to what was written. As Written.
And everytime I look at rule interpretations that force the player into unrealistic shenanigans, I cringe:
"no problem, just drop your items, change shape, and don the items again... and perhaps dance in the moonlight and sing a little ditty, while you're at it?"
"no thanks, no time, fight already started"
Arguments like "hey, you're a druid, you're already OP" or "arcane users have lousy AC anyways" or those in the same vein: agree, or agree not, that shapechangers are meleers? If you don't meet them in offence AND defence, you're dead meat.
When hitting this RAW wall myself, I take a +1 Wild full plate armor as soon as possible. Yes, even as an arcane spellcaster. You don't suffer any drawback, and gain AC+10 from a +4 item. Yay!
Sorry 'bout this.
I think Shakespeare had something to say about that level of rules lawyering and a failed swim check.
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RAW the bracers shut off because they're an armor bonus.
This is RAW:
"Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor."It is not said here that the bracers are armor bonus. It is said that the bracers provide the force field. And the polymorph effect can't stop the bracers from this field generation.
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Yes, if you don the item after polymorphing it work without problems. You can even activate items that you have don after polymorphing if you can take the appropriate action.But to apply those rules this item also should be a part of your gear that was melded into your body, isn't it? You just do not apply those rules to other things. For example you can put the bracers (or barding) on after you was polymorphed. And the items do not lose the armor bonus.
You are fixated on the "how it does it", but for the polymorph rules, what matters are two things: 1) "It is generated by an item" and 2) "what bonus is it".
So your "what matters 1" should be changed to "It is generated by an item that was in character gear and is melded into his new form."
Then, return to your example with the wall. Assume that the item generates the wall of force.
1) Is it the character's gear and is it melded into new form?
Yes.
2) What bonus is it?
It is a wall of force.
So the wall is in play. It is another item.
1) Is it the character's gear and is it melded into new form?
No.
2) Already doesn't matter, the rule is not about this item.
So, this wall would provide all it's bonuses, including armor bonus, if one is written in its rules.
The same should apply to the bracers.
"Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8".
Bracers meld and produce a field. The field is not melded and gives the armor bonus. Everything is as written.
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Sentence is "armor and shield bonus", not "armor bonus, and also shield bonus".
If I were to nitpicking rules, I'd say "armor" doesn't work anymore, and "shield bonus" doesn't work anymore... which means that "armor bonus" still works, as well as shields (without their AC bonus).
It would be funny, but the correct citation is "armor and shield bonuses". So your interpretation is much less possible :- )
If the "armor bonus" ceases to function, you lose the armor bonus... but not Shadow, Slick, etc. Right? Same for shields.
I do not see any (formal) problems here. This is RAW.
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RAW the bracers shut off because they're an armor bonus.
This is RAW:
"Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor."
It is not said here that the bracers are armor bonus.
I get not liking a rule but epistemic nihlism is not the solution
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I get not liking a rule but epistemic nihlism is not the solutionRAW the bracers shut off because they're an armor bonus.
This is RAW:
"Bracers of armor surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor."
It is not said here that the bracers are armor bonus.
Well, it is really not that exact. And it is you, who denies the force field and removes it from the rules :-) I just want to read this correctly. What if I use analogy and change the force field to fog cloud and armor bonus to concealment?
"Bracers of armor surround the wearer with a fog cloud, granting him concealment."Would you still insist that it is the bracers, that provide the concealment? The bracers can not provide neither armor bonus nor concealment on their own, they need force field or fog cloud or whatsoever. That's how it is written. They could say "Bracers of armor grant a force armor bonus" and there would be no questions.
Yes. It is that exact. Those are the exact words. It is an armor bonus. Those words are there objectively. Denying that is either an outright error or disingenuous.
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Yes. It is that exact. Those are the exact words. It is an armor bonus. Those words are there objectively. Denying that is either an outright error or disingenuous.
I do not say that it is not an armor bonus. I say that it do not come directly from the bracers. And consequently this armor bonus is not the subject for the polymorph rules.
It states that items that provide armor and shield bonuses cease to function. This not only would include bracers of armor but a ring of force shield as well. It doesn't state that the items in question have to be occupying the shield and/or armor slots on your character. Some other items are similarly effected.
Robe of the Archmagi
Snake Skin Tunic
Robes of Lead
Guardian Gorget
Corset of Dire Witchcraft
Ferocious War Mask
Key Cloak
It doesn't matter why an item provides an armor or shield bonus, only that it does. These items also have the unfortunate side effect that because none of them are actually armor or shields, you can't just enchant them with the wild enchant in order to allow them to continue to function.
Sentence is "armor and shield bonus", not "armor bonus, and also shield bonus".
If I were to nitpicking rules, I'd say "armor" doesn't work anymore, and "shield bonus" doesn't work anymore... which means that "armor bonus" still works, as well as shields (without their AC bonus).
It would be funny, but the correct citation is "armor and shield bonuses". So your interpretation is much less possible :- )
Meh. You're right, of course (at least on this point). I was just feeling like parodying all that rules-lawyering I read around.
Speaking of which... "No. I insist, good sir! As there are many shield bonuses (you know: +1, and then +2, and then...) then all these shield bonuses cease to function. And the armor, of course, the armor."
:-)
It states that items that provide armor and shield bonuses cease to function. <snip>
Eh. Nope. It's not "items that provide the bonuses". It's the bonuses themselves. Bracers (or anything) that grant armor bonus? The armor bonus ceases to function. Bracers (or anything) that convert those pesky +1s into other bonuses? They stick.
Strange, that. I think they wanted to shaft the (initially OP) druid by tanking its survivability in melee. Despite the fact that the spells already do that. Seriously, do the computation of Wildshaped ACs, whatever your level, and you'll see how it flatlines. Barring the Wild enchantment, you'll have to hop through serious hoops if you hope to go over 20.
Note that the Wild enchantment grants the armor bonus, without the drawbacks. At the point at which you can afford it, there is only one kind of armor you should seek: the stoneplate, from which you don't gain armor check penalty, max dex bonus, and spell failure. And encumberance. Yum yum for that one-shot +10 to AC (up to +15 but expensive as hell).