In a home-brew campaign, where we will be eventually encountering mythic/epic level BBEG liches. We know that at least one of them uses Horrid Wilting (likely with meta-magic or mythic boosts), and the DC for the saves are ridiculous. It is possible that some of the party would survive one, but would be wiped out if we got hit by two.
I am not aware of any of the usual protection spells that can help against Horrid Wilting. Anti-magic is the only spell I can think of off the top of my head that will stop it. But, that leaves the question, if a character is inside anti-magic, and needs to attack a creature that needs magic weapons to harm...is it possible to harm it, since the weapons are nullified while in anti-magic?
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To help against horrid wilting: Stay out of sight (you have to be able to see a target to hit with a 'target' type spell). Spell resistance, counterspelling. Having a good Fortitude save obviously helps mitigate the damage, standing least 61ft away from each other helps mitigate the potential number of targets (got any hirelings you can dress up to look like more tempting targets than you? Or summoned creatures, or... well, you know, the usual list of 'red shirts' you can throw out there). Can you somehow get yourself classified as something other than 'a living creature' (whilst still being able to, well, move and stuff...)?
None of which answers your question about AMF of course... sorry.
I'd go for some Spell Resistance items to give me a little protection, and then concentrate on taking the spellcaster down asap.
Horrid Wilting is almost impossible to defend against - which is why it's level 8. But greater spell immunity will do it.
What level are the PCs?
Horrid Wilting is an 8th level spell, so of course it's dangerous, but not so much that a healing battery cleric can't quickly fix up.
A Silence spell is always convenient against casters.
Damage Reduction is a Supernatural ability, so it's suppressed by Antimagic Field
Currently our party level is about 12th. We had a side adventure with some "expendable" PC's that attempted a commando-style raid deep into the heart of enemy territory, and our main characters had the ability to scry on their efforts. They got shut down hard when they came across the main BBEG and his most powerful allies. I believe the DC for the Horrid Wilting save was about 35-38. Basically, only a paladin had a chance to save. But, it gave us a chance to see some of what we were up against. There are several liches that are definitely mythic and epic levels. In the campaign, we hopefully will never encounter more than one at a time, but we cannot depend on it. Hopefully we will be close to 20th level before we encounter the very worst of the enemy, but that is no guarantee either.
So, we may still have several levels or more before we have to defend against that spell. But, its good to plan ahead.
Currently party is 4 PC's with 4 NPC's (under party control). One fighter with a couple paladin levels is the main meat shield; one rogue double-dagger wielder, one bard that uses a bow; mine is wiz(diviner)/fighter/EK/ (and perhaps AA later) that uses spells for battlefield control and buffing, and bow for damage. NPC's include the cleric-healer; monk (grappler specialist); gladiator: twin-whip tripper; and a sorcerer blaster.
Just make sure everybody have lots of HP. A maximised HW caster level 20 Will do 120 in damage. Just have more than that and concentrate on taking him Down before he cast it again. I Can Think of other High level spells that would be worse to Fail a save A save against.
Edit: my point is that by the time you get to the epic liches HW Will look a lot less intimidating.
If he is mythic he can probably do more than 300+ points of damage depending on saving throws. I think there is a way for him to use one slot to cast the spell twice, and he might be able to quicken it.
He may also debuff he party to try to make sure they fail the save also.
Counterspell will stop it.
Counterspell/Wall of force intervening/Maximized Magic missile to the face readied/Fog Cloud for concealment/ SPELL TURNING are all viable options.
Casters hate counterspelling because it's less effective then doing something proactive and making the enemy respond. However, it's a very effective strategy if that's what you want to do.
==Aelryinth
If he is mythic he can probably do more than 300+ points of damage depending on saving throws. I think there is a way for him to use one slot to cast the spell twice, and he might be able to quicken it.
He may also debuff he party to try to make sure they fail the save also.
Yes pehaps. But that dosent change that horrid wilting is just a CLxd6 damage spell.
Win initiative or have surprise, get the casters to ready actions to cast if the Lich does and make it pass a stupidly high concentration check.
Or
Get someone with the highest CMB to grapple it - again making it need to pass a con check.
Spell turning/counterspelling are also good options.
Use gr invisibility and Mind Blank.
Are the PC's mythic?
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That doesn't actually work as a contingency. The wall of force does not affect your person.
-Matt
The statue spell allows you to be immune to horrid wilting when it is not your turn, since you can act, then turn back to stone at the end of your turn.
Using iron body will also protect you from horrid wilting and most of the other necromancy.
Also, the effect that bypasses spell resistance is called Channel Power, and is not available to liches, because they lose their mythic tiers and gain preset mythic rank abilities instead.
Given that, greater spell immunity is an excellent hedge.
Also, when combined with Intensified Spell, the orange prism ioun stone, the bead of karma, deathwine, and Wild Arcana the damage can easily reach 180 points of damage per target.
That is correct, which I am always forgetting (also wish that contingency really allowed for anything).
3.5 tried that. It was broken.
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First thing I'll point out is that Horrid Wilting isn't a great spell. It does d6/level damage, with a save for half. However, with d6/level spells, a save should not be necessary for survival. With even a mediocre Con score, any PC of any class should survive such a spell fairly easily unless the caster is of significantly higher level than the PC's.
Consider a Horrid Wilting cast by an epic caster - that's 20d6. Normally you aren't going to get more than one level of metamagic on there, but a metamagic rod could easily throw a maximize or something on it. Still, that's 120 damage, which any character near 20th level (I would imagine you'll be darned near 20th if the lich is epic AND mythic!) should be able to take easily.
Consider a weakly wizard. 20 levels of d6/level, plus maybe a starting 14 con, plus 1/level favored class, and a +6 enhancement and toughness should be looking at over 200 hp by 20th. Of course, inherent bonuses could throw that significantly higher.
The reason there are not very many defences against this spell is because otherwise it's just a fireball with a higher CL damage limit. Like fireball, it sucks to get hit, but it shouldn't be killing you. Even with metamagic involved.
However, unlike fireball, Horrid Wilting is targeted, which means line of sight is required. This means your improved familiar (you have a familiar right?) can drop a smokestick (someone already mentioned this earlier), which is an item any first level character can afford, drop it in front, and you're fine. Obscuring mist/Silent Image (wall) are some first level spells that make you untargetable. Obviously, there are a wide variety of spells beyond first level that will do the trick as well. Winning initiative is necessary to enact the defence though.
Generally, with high level spell battles, initiative is important. If you win initiative, all you need to do against a lich is hit him with a Maze spell, move 9 melee PC's/summoned creatures around the square where he used to be, and prepare 9 readied actions to hit the lich the instant he returns. If you cast the Maze before the lich acts, he'll never get a single action in the combat.
If you can't win initiative (because he's mythic and you aren't), and his spell can't be disrupted (because he's a lich), and his caster level is so much above the party level that you suspect party death after a single d6/level spell, then contingency (dimension door) will give you an instant retreat. You might want to also speak to your GM about appropriate challenges.
I should mention that I would seldom recommend using a contingency to defend against horrid wilting...because there are dangerous spells to worry about.
Since you will need death ward and greater spell immunity to stay up as long as possible, you can game the lich's greater dispel magic effects.
Since the lich will almost always succeed with their dispel checks, you can prepare by layering pointless or useless effects like water breathing, water walk, or communal protection from arrows to eat their action. When doing this, make sure you cast them while using a higher caster level than the death ward and greater spell immunity. One way is to pop a bead of karma via Use Magic Device; another is to pray at an altar of Nethys.
You can cast the same useless spell four or more times, and while the effects don't stack, the dispel effect must take out all of them before it can move on. And since the altar or bead increased the caster level of the junk buffs above the CL of the useful stuff, the dispel effect must remove them first.
It seems that there is no actual magical defense against, from what everyone is saying. Best defense seems either use concealment, or outright block the sight of the caster. Will be taking it for granted that the lich and its associates will have true seeing, so that will limit what will work. It would be next to impossible to get spell resistance high enough to count on that strategy. Perhaps using the sorcerer to counterspell, if we get high enough level for him to have 8th level spells. But, that will only work on one spell a round, and as wraithstrike suggested, with the lich's level, and mythic/epic/and metamagic abilities will be doing far above the normal spell damage. Winning initiative is never guaranteed, but holding spells and missile attacks to try to disrupt casting may be a fallback option. Very good chance a BBEG of such level, will have defenses prepared for that.
While the different strategy/tactic tips are certainly helpful, apparently there is no actual defense/protection against that particular spell; unlike most other damage spells. Even a Wish does not seem like it would provide protection (except, using it as a counterspell).
Generally, with high level spell battles, initiative is important. If you win initiative, all you need to do against a lich is hit him with a Maze spell, move 9 melee PC's/summoned creatures around the square where he used to be, and prepare 9 readied actions to hit the lich the instant he returns. If you cast the Maze before the lich acts, he'll never get a single action in the combat.
Mythic liches get significant spell resistance, so maze isn't an autowin.
Also, a 20th-level lich caught in maze can first cast time stop, then take the full-round action to escape the maze (which he will make because of course he will), and have a minimum of one round outside the maze to take advantage of the time stop.
It seems that there is no actual magical defense against, from what everyone is saying. Best defense seems either use concealment, or outright block the sight of the caster. Will be taking it for granted that the lich and its associates will have true seeing, so that will limit what will work. It would be next to impossible to get spell resistance high enough to count on that strategy. Perhaps using the sorcerer to counterspell, if we get high enough level for him to have 8th level spells. But, that will only work on one spell a round, and as wraithstrike suggested, with the lich's level, and mythic/epic/and metamagic abilities will be doing far above the normal spell damage. Winning initiative is never guaranteed, but holding spells and missile attacks to try to disrupt casting may be a fallback option. Very good chance a BBEG of such level, will have defenses prepared for that.
While the different strategy/tactic tips are certainly helpful, apparently there is no actual defense/protection against that particular spell; unlike most other damage spells. Even a Wish does not seem like it would provide protection (except, using it as a counterspell).
Greater spell immunity offers protection from it, because the mythic rules for liches prevent them from grabbing the best archmage or hierophant features.
Are the liches arcane or divine? And are they spontaneous or prepared?
While I was preparing my last response, there were a couple of more good suggestions. I agree with Treantmonk, that we should be able to survive ONE HW, there is a good chance we will be hit with several in quick succession. And regarding Thelemic_Noun's point regarding losing Mythic Tiers and gaining Mythic Rank abilities, I will have to bring that up with the DM. It is possible he is giving this guy too much.
However, this is no ordinary end of campaign Boss. For my DM's campaign, he is basically equivalent to Vecna, of the GH setting. So... good chance he may be getting some near demi-god abilities. Hopefully by the chance we encounter him, we will have gained some abilities and equipment that will compensate.
But, regardless of this final BBEG, I was hoping to learn if there is a defense for the average run of the mill Horrid Wilting. Generally, there is a spell solution for almost every attack; this is one where that does not seem to be the case.
Maze is an extraplanar spell. He can planeshift out of it, and then Greater Teleport to his desired location.
He might not even try to escape the maze until he gates in some backup.
Generally, with high level spell battles, initiative is important. If you win initiative, all you need to do against a lich is hit him with a Maze spell, move 9 melee PC's/summoned creatures around the square where he used to be, and prepare 9 readied actions to hit the lich the instant he returns. If you cast the Maze before the lich acts, he'll never get a single action in the combat.Mythic liches get significant spell resistance, so maze isn't an autowin.
Also, a 20th-level lich caught in maze can first cast time stop, then take the full-round action to escape the maze (which he will make because of course he will), and have a minimum of one round outside the maze to take advantage of the time stop.
I admit I'm not up on my mythic rules. A mythic lich is really going to have a +19 Int modifier? That's insane. I remember casting Maze on an epic colossal red dragon in age of worms and the sucker took about 8 rounds before it reappeared (and died instantly before getting its first action).
I'm not used to creatures that auto-escape maze spells. Is Horrid Wilting really the major concern here? If the Lich is getting these kinds of bonuses, and it epic, (nevermind the lich template) the CR would be through the roof.
While I was preparing my last response, there were a couple of more good suggestions. I agree with Treantmonk, that we should be able to survive ONE HW, there is a good chance we will be hit with several in quick succession. And regarding Thelemic_Noun's point regarding losing Mythic Tiers and gaining Mythic Rank abilities, I will have to bring that up with the DM. It is possible he is giving this guy too much.
However, this is no ordinary end of campaign Boss. For my DM's campaign, he is basically equivalent to Vecna, of the GH setting. So... good chance he may be getting some near demi-god abilities. Hopefully by the chance we encounter him, we will have gained some abilities and equipment that will compensate.
But, regardless of this final BBEG, I was hoping to learn if there is a defense for the average run of the mill Horrid Wilting. Generally, there is a spell solution for almost every attack; this is one where that does not seem to be the case.
I think you May be over thinking this one a bit. If you consider talking with your GM about how he uses templates on high level Bad guys that you May/May not run in to.
Also how reliable is your Info that this Lich+ is using this Spell above all others? If May be he just killed your Guinea pig party with one of Many spells in his repertoire.
I admit I'm not up on my mythic rules. A mythic lich is really going to have a +19 Int modifier? That's insane. I remember casting Maze on an epic colossal red dragon in age of worms and the sucker took about 8 rounds before it reappeared (and died instantly before getting its first action).
I'm not used to creatures that auto-escape maze spells. Is Horrid Wilting really the major concern here? If the Lich is getting these kinds of bonuses, and it epic, (nevermind the lich template) the CR would be through the roof.
I agree it is insane. And maybe Horrid Wilting is not the #1 concern. I didn't mention in that encounter we witnessed, there was a Time Stop used as well. However, of what can be thrown at us, the HW is the one thing we haven't figured out a good defense for. I hate to think we just have to suck up so much damage, perhaps a couple times, and not have anything to lessen the damage.
Hey, you may want to take a look at this spell, even though its 9th Level:
Fiery Body
School transmutation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 9; Domain ash 9
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V
EFFECT
Range personal
Targets you
Duration 1 minute/level
DESCRIPTION
This spell transforms your body into living flame. You and your equipment are immune to fire damage. In fact, every time you would normally take damage from fire, you are instead healed of damage at a rate of 1 point per 3 points of damage the fire attack would have normally inflicted. You are immune to blindness, critical hits, ability score damage, deafness, disease, drowning, electricity, poison, stunning, and all spells that affect your physiology or respiration. You take only half damage from acid or electricity. You take 150% as much damage from cold than normal.
You gain a +6 enhancement bonus to your Dexterity score and a fly speed of 40 ft. (perfect maneuverability). Your unarmed attack deals an additional 3d6 points of fire damage, and you are considered armed when making unarmed attacks. Your body burns so brightly that creatures who do not avert their gaze from you are dazzled. Fire spells you cast have their save DCs increased by +1. If you enter water, you are surrounded by a 5-foot radius of steam and bubbles that grant you concealment (50% miss chance) but you take 2d6 points of damage each round you remain in water.
You might have a case because it says you are immune to anything that targets physiology. Being dehydrated, as Horrid Wilting does, affects physiology. If not, I would also suggest Undead Anatomy:
Undead Anatomy
School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 3, magus 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a piece of the creature whose form you plan to assume)
EFFECT
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 minute/level (D)
DESCRIPTION
When you cast this spell, you can assume the form of any Small or Medium corporeal creature of the undead type, which must be vaguely humanoid-shaped (like a ghoul, skeleton, or zombie). You gain a bite attack (1d6 for Medium forms, 1d4 for Small forms), two claw or slam attacks (1d6 for Medium forms, 1d4 for Small forms), and darkvision 60 feet. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 30 feet, fly 30 feet (average maneuverability), swim 30 feet, low-light vision, and scent.
In this form, you detect as an undead creature (such as with detect undead, but not with magic that reveals your true form, such as true seeing) and are treated as undead for the purposes of channeled energy, cure spells, and inflict spells, but not for other effects that specifically target or react differently to undead (such as searing light).
Small undead: If the form you take is that of a Small undead, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Medium undead: If the form you take is that of a Medium undead, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.
Undead Anatomy II
School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 5, magus 5, sorcerer/wizard 5
DESCRIPTION
This spell functions as undead anatomy I, except it also allows you to assume the form of a Tiny or Large corporeal creature of the undead type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: climb 60 feet, fly 60 feet (good maneuverability), swim 60 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, blood drain, DR 5/bludgeoning, scent, freeze, grab, mimicry, pounce, shadowless, sound mimicry, and trip.
In this form, you gain a +4 bonus on saves against mind-affecting effects, disease, poison, sleep, and stunning. If the form has a vulnerability to an attack (such as sunlight), you gain that vulnerability.
Tiny undead: If the form you take is that of a Tiny undead, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Large undead: If the form you take is that of a Large undead, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.
Undead Anatomy III
School transmutation (polymorph); Level alchemist 6, magus 6, sorcerer/wizard 6
DESCRIPTION
This spell functions as undead anatomy II, except it also allows you to assume the form of a Diminutive or Huge corporeal creature of the undead type. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: burrow 30 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 90 feet (good maneuverability), swim 90 feet, all-around vision, blindsense 30 feet, darkvision 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, constrict, disease, DR 5/—, fear aura, grab, jet, natural cunning, overwhelming, poison, pounce, rake, trample, trip, unnatural aura, and web.
If the creature has immunity or resistance to any energy types, you gain resistance 20 to those energy types. If the creature has vulnerability to an energy type, you gain that vulnerability. In this form, you gain a +8 bonus on saves against mind-affecting effects, disease, poison, sleep, and stunning. If the form has a vulnerability to an attack (such as sunlight), you gain that vulnerability.
Diminutive undead: If the form you take is that of a Diminutive undead, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –4 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
Huge undead: If the form you take is that of a Huge undead, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –4 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus.
Undead Anatomy IV
School transmutation (polymorph); Level sorcerer/wizard 8
EFFECT
Duration 1 minute/level (D) (see text)
DESCRIPTION
This spell functions as undead anatomy III, except it allows you to use more abilities. If the form you assume has any of the following abilities, you gain the listed ability: burrow 60 feet, climb 90 feet, fly 120 feet (good maneuverability), swim 120 feet, blindsense 60 feet, darkvision 90 feet, lifesense 60 feet, low-light vision, scent, tremorsense 60 feet, breath weapon, constrict, DR 10/magic and silver, DR 15/bludgeoning and magic, fast healing 5, fiery death, fire aura, grab, incorporeal, jet, poison, pounce, rake, rend, roar, spikes, trample, trip, and web.
If the creature’s form is incorporeal, the spell’s duration is in rounds per level instead of minutes per level, and your bite and claw (or slam) attacks are incorporeal touch attacks. If the creature has immunity or resistance to any energy types, you gain resistance 30 to those energy types. If the creature has vulnerability to an energy type, you gain that vulnerability. In this form, you gain a +8 bonus on saves against mind-affecting effects, disease, poison, sleep, and stunning. If the form has a vulnerability to an attack (such as sunlight), you gain that vulnerability.
Tiny undead: If the form you take is that of a Tiny undead, you gain a –2 penalty to your Strength, a +8 size bonus to your Dexterity, and a +3 natural armor bonus.
Large undead: If the form you take is that of a Large undead, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +2 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.
Or, you can turn your fighter and the grappling Monk into elementals, have them rush the lich and keep him busy. If someone's in his face, he won't be so concerned with casting spells.
It seems that there is no actual magical defense against, from what everyone is saying. Best defense seems either use concealment, or outright block the sight of the caster. Will be taking it for granted that the lich and its associates will have true seeing, so that will limit what will work. It would be next to impossible to get spell resistance high enough to count on that strategy. Perhaps using the sorcerer to counterspell, if we get high enough level for him to have 8th level spells. But, that will only work on one spell a round, and as wraithstrike suggested, with the lich's level, and mythic/epic/and metamagic abilities will be doing far above the normal spell damage. Winning initiative is never guaranteed, but holding spells and missile attacks to try to disrupt casting may be a fallback option. Very good chance a BBEG of such level, will have defenses prepared for that.
While the different strategy/tactic tips are certainly helpful, apparently there is no actual defense/protection against that particular spell; unlike most other damage spells. Even a Wish does not seem like it would provide protection (except, using it as a counterspell).
Greater spell immunity offers protection from it, because the mythic rules for liches prevent them from grabbing the best archmage or hierophant features.
Are the liches arcane or divine? And are they spontaneous or prepared?
You could just apply mythic tiers of Archmage or Hierophant to a lich at the start. They aren't forced to use the "Mythic Lich" progression.
You could just apply mythic tiers of Archmage or Hierophant to a lich at the start. They aren't forced to use the "Mythic Lich" progression.
But then their phylactery would no longer gain special protection as an artifact.
I admit I'm not up on my mythic rules. A mythic lich is really going to have a +19 Int modifier? That's insane. I remember casting Maze on an epic colossal red dragon in age of worms and the sucker took about 8 rounds before it reappeared (and died instantly before getting its first action).I'm not used to creatures that auto-escape maze spells. Is Horrid Wilting really the major concern here? If the Lich is getting these kinds of bonuses, and is epic, (nevermind the lich template) the CR would be through the roof.
Your average 20th level wizard lich will have Int 38 for +14. If he gains the ability score increase for 10 mythic tiers (which he may or may not; it depends on if they're forced to use the mythic lich template), then yes, that would be Int 48 for +19. That one ioun stone grants +1. Throw in the likelihood of other spells and effects, as well as a possible +1d12 on the die from surge, and he will make the roll, whether using ranks or tiers.
The best way to deal with a mythic lich is to keep it tied up in a counterspell duel with your casters while a paladin archer with blunt arrows activates smite evil and unloads on them.
Actually not sure if it was mentioned but ring of counterspells works. One of the pc I am sling is deathly afraid of confusion and has it ready for that..but it will stop horrid wilting.
Whenever you're worried about a particular spell, cast spellbane! It blocks the spells you are afraid of, while letting you cast your own magic unimpeded!
If this lich is as powerful as it seems he is, then you will probably have 9th-level spells by the time you face him, unless the DM is handing you some kind of Win Button McGuffin beforehand. So, your cleric (or a sorcerer with a high Use Magic Device modifier and the right scroll or staff) can ready an action to cast mass heal in response to a casting of horrid wilting.
As noted above, spellbane is one possible option (possibly the best of all, since it works like an antimagic field against a small number of spells you choose at the time of casting), and the protection lasts almost the entire day, but everybody in the party has to stick within 10 feet of the caster to benefit from the protection.
I'd be less worried about stuff like Horrid Wilting and more worried about stuff like a Persistent Mass Suffocation coupled with Mythic Spell Focus: Necromancy.
Have fun making 3 saves and taking the worst of the 3 versus the effect, on what is likely at least a DC 35 or so save.
Hope he doesn't have Spell Perfection or a Quicken Rod or he can Quicken another one at you if some people pass.
As a correction no polymorphing or shape changing spell in aware of make you not living or change your type. Statue in fact is not a polymorphing spell.
Just to put it out there...
If the lich is a wizard with Rapid Preparation, Perfect Preparation, the borrowed time spell, and the Arcane Metamastery IV path ability, he can cast three spells per round, or effectively cast wizard spells spontaneously.
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I'd be less worried about stuff like Horrid Wilting and more worried about stuff like a Persistent Mass Suffocation coupled with Mythic Spell Focus: Necromancy.
Have fun making 3 saves and taking the worst of the 3 versus the effect, on what is likely at least a DC 35 or so save.
Hope he doesn't have Spell Perfection or a Quicken Rod or he can Quicken another one at you if some people pass.
Yes. I agree totally.
At higher levels, your best bet for defense is to mess with the enemy caster's ability to target you. Failing that, hit them hard before they can hit you.
If you know what the enemy will be capable of, don't bring a knife to that gunfight. Get the Lich to scramble to handle what you throw at it.
...Get the Lich to scramble to handle what you throw at it.
Perhaps the very best of strategy of all. Not sure when or where the encounter will be; but if we can figure out a way to kill enough of its minions and disrupt its plans, perhaps we can get it to come after us, and we can choose a more advantageous battle ground than his HQ. Also, our DM is not a total sociopath/masochist... the missions we are on now are designed to do things that will weaken the BBEG in the long run, as well as strengthen our party. This campaign has been active for about 18 months now, usually meeting once a week. I would not be shocked if it continues another 18 months. I just like to plan ahead, and I am still try to learn all the possibilities in PF. Old D&D/AD&D had far less variables to worry about.