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How does the Evangelist's Aligned Class work with the Monk's Flurry of blows class feature?
Per the Flurry Faq "A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total."
However, The Aligned Class feature states: "Evangelists come from many different backgrounds, and they show an unusual range of diversity. At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class."
This means at Monk 10/Evangelist 10, a Monk has a Flurry BAB of 19. However, using the FAQ, you still have +7 BAB from the Evangelist class that is BAB from another source than Monk, suggesting a Flurry BAB of 26.
Obviously, this isn't something that should be possible, but RAW, that's the interpretation I'm seeing.
First I want to see if we agree that a non-flurrying monk 10/evangelist 10 has a BAB of 17?
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How does the Evangelist's Aligned Class work with the Monk's Flurry of blows class feature?
Per the Flurry Faq "A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total."
If your Evangelist levels (past 1st) are treated as monk levels for FoB, then they're not really "other" sources of BAB, are they?
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First I want to see if we agree that a non-flurrying monk 10/evangelist 10 has a BAB of 17?
Non-flurry monk 10/evangelist 10 would have a BAB of 14. If flurrying without Aligned class it would be 17. With aligned class it would be 19 if the Evangelist levels are counted as monk levels for the purpose of BAB. If Evangelist is another class for the purpose of BAB (according to the FAQ and Alinged Class it seems to be) it jumps to 26.
I strongly feel that this should be a case where the Evangelist class counts as monk levels. But by strict RAW of the Aligned Class feature itself, it doesn't appear to be.
Just looking for a clarification.
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Just deleted a post. I had suggested that the evangelist levels wouldn't count as monk levels for flurry of blows, but then I realized that created all kinds of other problems. Like you wouldn't get additional attacks from flurry of blows.
So yeah, go with the common sense answer. It would be BAB 19.
Is there a crack in the wording? Yes. But instead of trying to exploit it, let's just use the reasonable interpretation. Simple question: do (generic) you honestly think the designers intended to give an evangelist monk a higher BAB than a pure fighter?
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Simple question: do (generic) you honestly think the designers intended to give an evangelist monk a higher BAB than a pure fighter?
Of course not. That's why I'm posting, to close this loophole.
Because even if it was ruled to cap at 20, if the interpretation is there, then a Monk 6/Evangelist 5 has a BAB of 13 at 11, and it continues going up two for one for the next four levels..
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Your Evangelist levels count as monk levels, They are no longer Evangelist/other class levels so you can't add them again. What you are doing is same as a monk using his monk level for bab then adding his bab.
I realize your theorycrafting but if a player tries to use this, I would hit them in the head with the book.
You said I should write up a Zen archer/ Evangelist (that I don't actually intend on playing)and present it to my Dm and argue that I should have a BAB higher than my current level for giggles?
o..k...
First I want to see if we agree that a non-flurrying monk 10/evangelist 10 has a BAB of 17?No we don't. :)
A non-flurrying monk 10 has a BAB of 7, so when we add that to evangelist 10 we get 14.
Quite right, for some reason I was thinking that Evangelist was full BAB. Mea culpa.
I think Kazaan has the right idea. Effectively 19 levels of monk, and one level of a 3/4 BAB class.
So, I think they would end up with 18/18/13/13/8/8/3 or maybe -1 across the board.
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If your Evangelist levels (past 1st) are treated as monk levels for FoB, then they're not really "other" sources of BAB, are they?How does the Evangelist's Aligned Class work with the Monk's Flurry of blows class feature?
Per the Flurry Faq "A monk using flurry treats his BAB from monk levels as equal to his monk level. He still adds BAB from other sources (such as other classes or racial Hit Dice) normally to this total."
+1
I actually disagree in theory, based on the rule that BAB is not a class ability.
But then I remember that we're talking about Monks, so whatever, sure, BAB 19 at level 20, why not.
If you're going to go strict RAW, then BAB 17 seems the best answer to me (10 for Monk, 7 for Evangelist). Aligned Class lets you progress Flurry of Blows, but "essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains" does not clearly mean that Evangelist levels count to determine the effect of the class features, just that she gains them.
Common sense is obviously +19 though.
I have to disagree with that position. To put it in simplest terms, every single level of Monk you "gain" a class feature in that the improved effect of the Flurry of Blows class ability improves. At level 1, you "gain" FoB with a BAB of +1. At lvl 2, you "gain" an enhancement to FoB to make it a BAB of +2. It's no less a gain than getting the base of the ability.
Agreed, nearly all class abilities in pathfinder are gained early and expanded upon with increases in level, they are not "new" or "gained" at those levels.
clerics domains, domain spells and channeling for example, with his logic those wouldn't progress at all.
Majuba's interpretation seems wrong.
I would definitely let the monk treat the evangelist levels as "monk levels" for the purpose of progressing his flurry.
Monk 10/evangelist 10 would have a BAB of 19 while using Flurry and a BAB of 14 when not using flurry.
He'd also have the unarmed damage of a 19th level monk (2d8).
And since we're on the topic, I would not allow a monk/evangelist to use Monastic Legacy with the Evangelist levels to progress his unarmed strike damage.
his normal BAB would be 14 (7+7) and his flurry would be 17 (10+7). the aligned class only grants you class features. it does not alter BAB and saves. those things are not part of aligned class ability and are therefore not considered monk levels.
besides, even if you DID count evangelist levels for flurry, you would end up with a flurry of 19 in the end (10+9). if you go so far as to even include the empty level, that is a flurry BAB of 20. if you house rule this, then it is clearly not broken as it is within range of a full BAB without exceeding it.
his normal BAB would be 14 (7+7) and his flurry would be 17 (10+7). the aligned class only grants you class features. it does not alter BAB and saves. those things are not part of aligned class ability and are therefore not considered monk levels.
BAB is not a class ability, but Flurry of Blows is. Flurry of blows modifies your BAB when using Flurry of Blows, which is the source of the potential loophole.
So that seems covered.
Yeah, Flurry BAB +19. Evangelist can't be both "another source" and simultaneously be "essentially" monk levels.
This reminds me of mixing Warpriest with Monk for Crusader's Flurry.
Warpriest 10/Monk 10 (just for example) has BAB 14, but BAB 17 with their Sacred Weapon or while Flurrying, and BAB 20 when Flurrying with their Sacred Weapon. The more attacks you make, the better you are at hitting things!