i am the muchkin monk lol and this thread is my fault
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pwvy?How-do-you-get-your-players-to-stop-being
(sorry david lol)
(and i dont count good feat selection and resources as min/max)
(may be wrong would also like opinion of that)
so in the interest of fairness and my detail over site im posting my build pls correct all errors on my side.
quin lv 4 monk (monk of the four winds)
str 16
dex 20
con 15
int 12
wis 16
cha 11
hp 36
ac 23
fort 6
ref 8
will 7
+2 vs enchantments
+2 sleep stun paralyze (dragon stlye)
cmb 7 cmd 25
skills
acrobatics 12 4ranks
climb 8 3ranks
escape artist 12 4ranks
perception 10 3ranks
ride 7 1rank
stealth 12 4ranks
swim 7 3ranks
flaw
shaky -2 range atks (benefit extra feat)
feats
-improved unarmed strike
-improved grapple
-turtle style
-crane style
-dragon style
monk abilities
elemental fist 4/day
flurry +2/+2
evation
still mind
fast movment 10
slow fall 20
ki pool 5
equipment
bracers of armor + 1
rind of protection +1
potions of shield and mage armor
mw temple sword d8 19-20
so thats all the useful data here the break down
wis 3 dex 5 bracers 1 ring 1 crane 1 turtle 1 fight lv4 monk 1 fight defensively 3 (3 due to acrobatics)
so 10+3+5+1+1+1+1+1+3 = 26 on avg flurry 23
potion of shield and mage armor (usual tactic)
ac 29
ac 32 fight def.
ac 36 if burned ki point
ac 39 if total defense action
to hit
str 3
base 3
melee 7 defensively 5
range 7
dmg sword d8+4 (two hand)
i never hit any thing and to raise my ac eats turn economy
things i have learned i done wrong
-not dropped my ac by 3 when i flurry for using a full standered action and not using my action to fight defensively
-not stating im using elemental fist (apparently its a called atk)-my bad
- stacking turle style with crane style (thought i could legally)
if i cant for sure lower all ac totals by one
-not declaring my swift actions to say what style im in (didnt know about the swift actions)
-for getting my ac is 3 higher because of an action and for get to change/announce it on charge or other actions
so i believe thats it
so the purpose of the build is to tank and grapple
every one feel free to comment
-win games
(and side note my first charter died cause he was a squishy skill monkey and there be big monsters some times lol no hard feeling on the death)-it was miles fault any way not the dm
Now that you know you can't stack styles without an archetype or feat, they only thing I see cheesy here is taking a penalty to ranged combat in order to gain an feat for a melee build. But if you were offered that optional system, it's only reasonable that you use it.
Now that you know you can't stack styles without an archetype or feat, they only thing I see cheesy here is taking a penalty to ranged combat in order to gain an feat for a melee build. But if you were offered that optional system, it's only reasonable that you use it.
I can't imagine anyone taking that feat if they were at all interested in ranged combat.
|
3) fight defense is not like total defense, you need to attack first to get the AC ( so no. In round 1 when combat starts)
In a sense, it is like Total Defense. You need to expend a standard action to do either. So, obviously, you don't get the advantage of either if you're flat-footed, and neither can be used in round one until it's your turn to act.
I dont see why turtle and crane cant stack
Because he's a Monk of Four Winds, not a Master of Many Styles.
Now that you know you can't stack styles without an archetype or feat, they only thing I see cheesy here is taking a penalty to ranged combat in order to gain an feat for a melee build. But if you were offered that optional system, it's only reasonable that you use it.I can't imagine anyone taking that feat if they were at all interested in ranged combat.
I think that flaw is from Tome of Secrets. It is a third party company. and the intent is to take a flaw that won't really affect you. When I used that book I had my players take a relevant. flaw.
Interesting follow up to the other thread. Well Javarie you have screwed up in several ways:
1 - As stated, forms don't mix. You can take em, but honestly you'd be better off devoting yourself to one style, without a feat or archetype to let you mix you have to burn a swift to change styles. My recommendation? Pick up the archetype or something. You need it...
2 - Your feats are jacked up, unless I'm missing something... Lets look at the progression:
Mb Elemental Fist
Mb improved unarmed strike
Mb1 improved grapple
1 -Turtle style
Flaw - Crane Style
Mb2 ???(missing a Feat here)
3 Dragon style
Since you're down a feat, might I recommend taking dodge instead of Improved Grapple and taking that as your 2nd level Bonus feat from monk? Otherwise you don't qualify for crane style anyways(still need dodge)... If I were you this is how I'd do it:
Mb - Elemental Fist
Mb - Improved unarmed strike
Mb1 - Dodge
lvl 1 - Crane Style
Flaw - (Whatever)
Mb2 - Improved Grapple
lvl 3 - (whatever)
2 - Also No such thing as a potion of shield. When I first played a monk, too was disappointed to find it was not an option. Might I suggest a potion of Barkskin at a higher CL? Or even stacking the Qinggong Archetype for the Bark Skin SLA?
3 - You said you :
-not dropped my ac by 3 when i flurry for using a full standered action and not using my action to fight defensively
That's wrong as I'm reading it, you can fight defensively as part of a full attack action, meaning you can Flury & fight defensively. This is because Flurry is still a Full Attack Action, and the rules say: "You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action."
So finally with that in mind your ac is pretty easy to figure out(if you take dodge to qualify for Crane)
10 base + 5 Dex + 3 Wis + 1 Armor + 1 Deflection + 1 dodge(Monk Lvl 4)+ 1 Dodge(feat) + 1 dodge(crane) + 1 dodge(Fighting Defensively) + 1 dodge(acrobatics)
And you're back at 26 AC.
With a Potion of Mage Armor(Effectively +3 Armor) & Bark Skin(natural Armor +1 - +5 depending)
30 to 34 AC
When you use a Ki for +4?
34-38 AC
Not too shabby imo, especially only for a -2 on your attacks & a renewable resource & a few disposables.
|
|
You can't even have a Potion of Shield. Shield is a personal spell. You can't make potions of personal spells.
Quite true Heymitch, I didn't even catch that. However, I will say that this is something that I have seen a lot of peopele ignore over the years.
Actually, if you've got an Alchemist buddy...
An alchemist with the Infusion discovery can allow others to use his infusions. And shield is on the Alchemist's formulae list.
That's the only way I'm aware of that you could legitimately do it.
|
|
If you're basing your character around the idea that he'll almost always be fighting defensively to increase AC, you might want to consider Combat Expertise, combined with the combat trait Threatening Defender.
It reduces the number you subtract from your attack rolls by 1 when using Combat Expertise.
This only really works if you have a 13 Int, of course. It's great for a Monk dip with Magus (Kensai).
|
Now that you know you can't stack styles without an archetype or feat, they only thing I see cheesy here is taking a penalty to ranged combat in order to gain an feat for a melee build. But if you were offered that optional system, it's only reasonable that you use it.I can't imagine anyone taking that feat if they were at all interested in ranged combat.
It's not like a non-zen archer or sohei monk has any real ranged options anyway. Shuriken are pretty weak even with flurry and otherwise you have to burn a feat or a trait for proficiency.
Interesting follow up to the other thread. Well Javarie you have screwed up in several ways:
1 - As stated, forms don't mix. You can take em, but honestly you'd be better off devoting yourself to one style, without a feat or archetype to let you mix you have to burn a swift to change styles. My recommendation? Pick up the archetype or something. You need it...
2 - Your feats are jacked up, unless I'm missing something... Lets look at the progression:
Mb Elemental Fist
Mb improved unarmed strike
Mb1 improved grapple
1 -Turtle style
Flaw - Crane Style
Mb2 ???(missing a Feat here)
3 Dragon styleSince you're down a feat, might I recommend taking dodge instead of Improved Grapple and taking that as your 2nd level Bonus feat from monk? Otherwise you don't qualify for crane style anyways(still need dodge)... If I were you this is how I'd do it:
Mb - Elemental Fist
Mb - Improved unarmed strike
Mb1 - Dodge
lvl 1 - Crane Style
Flaw - (Whatever)
Mb2 - Improved Grapple
lvl 3 - (whatever)2 - Also No such thing as a potion of shield. When I first played a monk, too was disappointed to find it was not an option. Might I suggest a potion of Barkskin at a higher CL? Or even stacking the Qinggong Archetype for the Bark Skin SLA?
3 - You said you :
-not dropped my ac by 3 when i flurry for using a full standered action and not using my action to fight defensivelyThat's wrong as I'm reading it, you can fight defensively as part of a full attack action, meaning you can Flury & fight defensively. This is because Flurry is still a Full Attack Action, and the rules say: "You can choose to fight defensively when taking a full-attack action."
So finally with that in mind your ac is pretty easy to figure out(if you take dodge to qualify for Crane)
10 base + 5 Dex + 3 Wis + 1 Armor...
seems right and apparently i forgot to include my dodge feat
also every in the game group is oblivious that you cant buy potions with the target:you description if some one can send a link or page number i would be grateful
and if there is a feat that allows you to use multiple fighting stlyes pls send a link dragon style is a must i am always stuck behind every one in a fight.
another things is my thinking on dropping fighting defensivly to flurry was to not take another -2 i forgot that you could so that to be honest tho
thank you
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
Jabarie, you are awesome.
You're self-correcting, and people are being a little curt about it, but you are an awesome player. You'd be welcome at my table.
|
|
and if there is a feat that allows you to use multiple fighting stlyes pls send a link dragon style is a must i am always stuck behind every one in a fight.
Unfortunately, Jabarie, I'm not aware of a way to use multiple fighting styles simultaneously without using the Master of Many Styles archetype. Also, you can't stack Master of Many Styles with Monk of the Four Winds, because they both replace the same class feature: Perfect Self.
While the Master of Many Styles actually gets Elemental Fist on his list of available bonus feats, unlike most bonus feats he actually needs the prerequisites to qualify for Elemental Fist (so, a MOMS won't qualify until 11th level, or possibly sooner if he'd multiclassed with a full BAB class, and he couldn't normally take it for his bonus feat until 14th level).
Sorry, I know that doesn't help much.
While it doesn't stack Combat Style Master allows you to switch between styles as a free action and you can pick a style at the start of combat and use it even in the surprise round.
|
|
and if there is a feat that allows you to use multiple fighting stlyes pls send a link dragon style is a must i am always stuck behind every one in a fight.Unfortunately, Jabarie, I'm not aware of a way to use multiple fighting styles simultaneously without using the Master of Many Styles archetype. Also, you can't stack Master of Many Styles with Monk of the Four Winds, because they both replace the same class feature: Perfect Self.
While the Master of Many Styles actually gets Elemental Fist on his list of available bonus feats, unlike most bonus feats he actually needs the prerequisites to qualify for Elemental Fist (so, a MOMS won't qualify until 11th level, or possibly sooner if he'd multiclassed with a full BAB class, and he couldn't normally take it for his bonus feat until 14th level).
Sorry, I know that doesn't help much.
Actually, MoMS can get elemental fist at 3rd level if they get two dragon style feats at 1st and 2nd using bonus feats. Dragon Ferocity allows you to take elemental fist even if you don't qualify for prerequisites, but you are limited to one energy type until do meet them.
are you aloud to stack archetypes as long as they don't replace the same abilities?
Yes.