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Quarterstaves do no extra damage just for being made from metal.
But I have no problem with someone wanting to make a metal version, why not, it'll last longer and has no other special boons other than material. Which any other weapon has access too.
Edit: I'm even going against RAW here, as it specifically states Quarterstaves cannot be made with Adamantine. Funny, I don't see why not. If someone wants to pay +3000gp for a better staff I'm going to allow it, RAW be damned here!
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So if a staff is a quaterstaff, it will be made of wood only.
If the staff is a walking stick or cudgel, so not a weapon, it may be made of another material.
So, can you explain the exact structural difference between a staff and a quarterstaff.
How exactly am I supposed to tell, other than an in depth examinatin of the items arcane properties, if a 6' long piece of wood is enchanted to cast fireballs or smack things harder. I would not want to accidently hit somebody with the wrong item.
I also find it interesting that you believe a 6' metal rod won't deal damage if I hit you with it. Having been personally hit with more than one piece of rebar of the appropriate length, I can definitively state that you are are incorrect.
i have no problems with a metal quarterstaff. you are talking about a 6,000 GP adamantine weapon that costs twice as much to enhance as normal.
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i have no problems with a metal quarterstaff. you are talking about a 6,000 GP adamantine weapon that costs twice as much to enhance as normal.
I don't believe you pay the material cost twice for a double weapon. It's a flat 3,000 for making a weapon Adamantine. And it cost no more than a normal weapon to enhance, i.e. it does not cost 'double', as you do not have to enchant both sides of the staff if you don't want to.
Double weapons have a separate enchantment cost for each side, is more accurate.
Reason you can not have an adamantine quarterstaff by RAW -
WOOD quarterstaff is free and priced according to the fact that it is basically a stick off a tree. In order for something to be made of adamantine it must be made mostly of metal. That's fine, but how much does a metal quarterstaff cost? It sure isn't free anymore as it now has increased hardness, hp, and time investment to make. So until you can define how much the initial item costs, you can not define how much the adamantine version costs. This is the reason I told a player he couldn't have one at my PFS table.
In a home game just ask the GM to price a metal quarterstaff and then buy an adamantine version by adding 3,000gp to it.
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Reason you can not have an adamantine quarterstaff by RAW -
WOOD quarterstaff is free and priced according to the fact that it is basically a stick off a tree. In order for something to be made of adamantine it must be made mostly of metal. That's fine, but how much does a metal quarterstaff cost? It sure isn't free anymore as it now has increased hardness, hp, and time investment to make. So until you can define how much the initial item costs, you can not define how much the adamantine version costs. This is the reason I told a player he couldn't have one at my PFS table.In a home game just ask the GM to price a metal quarterstaff and then buy an adamantine version by adding 3,000gp to it.
2gp sounds fine, buy a spear, remove the tip.
2gp sounds fine, buy a spear, remove the tip.
A spear is mostly made of wood. (Which is why it can be made from Darkwood)
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2gp sounds fine, buy a spear, remove the tip.A spear is mostly made of wood. (Which is why it can be made from Darkwood)
Um. OK? Not sure what your point is here.
I had a similar discussion with someone inregard to breastplates and dragonhide.
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That a "staff" hurt when it hit, i don't disaggree, but we are in a high fantasy GAME, not real life, and the quarterstaff will need to hit big armor... not your sweet skin... :-)
So your arguement is that a metal staff is less effective vs. armor than a metal staff?
A cudgel is a type of club. Iron shod clubs and iron shod quarterstaves are both very real.
2gp sounds fine, buy a spear, remove the tip.A spear is mostly made of wood. (Which is why it can be made from Darkwood)
Um. OK? Not sure what your point is here.
Lab_Rat was saying that in order to price an adamantine quarterstaff, you first need the price of a quarterstaff that is non-adamantine but still made of metal.
You quoted him, and mentioned buying a spear and removing the tip.
Since a spear is mostly wood, this doesn't give you the price of a metal quarterstaff.
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2gp sounds fine, buy a spear, remove the tip.A spear is mostly made of wood. (Which is why it can be made from Darkwood)
Um. OK? Not sure what your point is here.
Lab_Rat was saying that in order to price an adamantine quarterstaff, you first need the price of a quarterstaff that is non-adamantine but still made of metal.
You quoted him, and mentioned buying a spear and removing the tip.
Since a spear is mostly wood, this doesn't give you the price of a metal quarterstaff.
I see. I think calling it 3,000gp is just fine then. I wouldn't even bat an eyebrow in any of my games run at this.
I had a similar discussion with someone inregard to breastplates and dragonhide.Care to explain the relevance to this thread? Wouldn't mind hearing what the problem there was.
The description of a breastplate says it is a "single piece of sculpted metal" where as dragonhide is presumably not metal. Much like a wooden weapon made of metal, this was a metal item made of leather/hide.
The description of a breastplate says it is a "single piece of sculpted metal" where as dragonhide is presumably not metal. Much like a wooden weapon made of metal, this was a metal item made of leather/hide.I had a similar discussion with someone inregard to breastplates and dragonhide.Care to explain the relevance to this thread? Wouldn't mind hearing what the problem there was.
It specifically lists breastplates as one of the armours that you can make out of dragonhide.
Wouldn't an adamant staff be pretty heavy?
But it deals with DR very different suddenly.
As for the legality of metal quarterstaffs...
Unless my memory fails me, there is at least one metal quarterstaff in an official AP adventure; in Council of Thieves to be precise.
Midnight Angel is correct, that is a Mithral Quarterstaff. Unfortunately, APs are not a definitive source of the rules. The same AP, Council of Thieves, had a Ranger that is clearly illegal.
- Gauss
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I think I found a RAW way to do this.
Nab a Adamantine/Adamantine two-bladed sword, then add the Transformative property.
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I;d see no problem in making a staff out of metal. You would just need to give it a new base weight. Just ran some caculations, using 1 inch diameter and 6 foot length and steel weight of 40.8 pounds per square foot. Came out to 12.75 lbs for a steel staff, so 12 lbs would be a good set point for the weight.
I think I found a RAW way to do this.
Nab a Adamantine/Adamantine two-bladed sword, then add the Transformative property.
That's by far the best way I have seen to get it using just RAW. I completely agree with others that all you need to do at home is price a metal quarterstaff. However, I have a player at PFS that wants an adamantine quarterstaff. As some may or may not know, PFS goes raw only so it's nice to see a way of doing it by the book. Now to break the news to him that it will cost 15,100gp (rediculous amount) and if he wants to use it as a double sword effectively will need to spend a feat on EWP.
It's an adamantine hollow pipe. It's exactly the difference between a wooden bat and an aluminum one in baseball.
My barbarian has an Adamantine greatclub/walking stick for PFS. I priced it as an Adamantine Greatsword. Nobody has batted an eye.
I describe it as a 4.5" long piece of hollow decorative adamantine artwork that he retrieved from an adventure in the Worldwound decades ago. He just put a pommel-weight on one end, and wraps that part with leather straps to get a good grip.
The pipe is carved with bas relief faces of humanoids in torment. In its original use, was used as an interior decor item. Flame would run up the pipe and cause the eyes and mouths to flicker. Whenever you glance away from it and glance back, the faces change expressions subtly. When he gets money for it, it'll eventually be enchanted with +1, then Vicious, then Impact, all of which will be "story-explained" as "unlocked properties of the original item."
Because, hey, an item that costs that much money should have some story behind it, right?
Nobody has answered why yet.
So, I ask again: Why?
Adamantine weapons ignore item hardnesses of less than 20. This makes them great for overcoming certain types of DR (constructs) and for knocking holes in doors, walls, the bottoms of ships, and showing off ostentatious wealth when entertaining Infernal diplomats in the Worldwound. Because most constructs encountered in later games have spell immunity and resist acid 20, arcane casters without an adamantine weapon sit out those encounters and try to look "not worth its attention to smash."
Because you will usually want Adamantine later in your PFS career, but can't add it to your existing +3 weapon, you generally need to make it an early purchase.
And sometimes, it gives a nice non-mechanical grace-note to a character.
Adamantine (is good)
Sure, but specifically, why a quarterstaff? Why not just use a Morningstar? Simple, one-handed, can be two-handed, and legal for adamantine.
Wizards don't get proficiency in morningstars. They do in a staff.
For the Greatclub I wrote about, it's because I like showing up with a two handed barbarian with a greatclub and watching the melee-optimizers wince.
Wizards don't get proficiency in morningstars. They do in a staff.
Whoops, thought they had simple.
So a dagger then. It's not like the melee wizard is going to be doing much, even with an adamantine weapon.
For the Greatclub I wrote about, it's because I like showing up with a two handed barbarian with a greatclub and watching the melee-optimizers wince.
I expect people would also wince if you showed up with mithral padded armor.
RAW it's not possible. I've played a game where it was houseruled that a masterwork quarterstaff is considered iron-shod (with little metal caps at the ends) and that the "shoes" could be made of other special materials for the purpose of bypassing DR.
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Because most constructs encountered in later games have spell immunity and resist acid 20, arcane casters without an adamantine weapon sit out those encounters and try to look "not worth its attention to smash."
Nope. Just cast grease. Golems have horrible reflex saves and a negative modifer for acrobatics checks.
The Iron Golem, for instance, has only a +5 reflex save and -1 on acrobatics checks.
My level 1 earth school wizard has a DC 16 grease spell.
In Crypt of the Everflame I kept the Wood Golem off its feet long enough for the party to kill it.
For the Greatclub I wrote about, it's because I like showing up with a two handed barbarian with a greatclub and watching the melee-optimizers wince.I expect people would also wince if you showed up with mithral padded armor.
I have shown up with Mithral Studded Leather, for the 5% ASF.
The greatclub I show up with because it is, if not the worst, one of the worst, two handed weapons in the game. However, A) it fits the character (who is an elderly barbarian who came out of retirement and tells these young whippersnappers what it was like back in HIS day...) and B) it causes players who minmax their builds to get a 20 STR and use a two handed sword with an adamantine buckler while power attacking with furious focus and ooble-dooble else knows what...to wince as a Barbarian wades into a fight with less strength, a worse weapon in nearly every way, and beats things down enough to be of use to the party - while still being able to do other things.
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My barbarian has an Adamantine greatclub/walking stick for PFS. I priced it as an Adamantine Greatsword. Nobody has batted an eye.
Yet....wouldn't be legal at my table and I would ask you to refund your money and make a legal choice, making a notation of such on your scenario sheet. The rules are very specific when it comes to items and legality.
Yet....wouldn't be legal at my table and I would ask you to refund your money and make a legal choice, making a notation of such on your scenario sheet. The rules are very specific when it comes to items and legality.
Unlike the quarterstaff, the rules don't specify what a normal greatclub is made of. Just like it doesn't specify that padded armor isn't made of metal and thus eligible for being made from mithral.
These are the loopholes you need to exploit in order to show people how unoptimized you are.
That's one of those things that most weapons lack. I wish that there were rules regarding wood vs metal hafts, since these are referenced for weapon hp and hardness, and better descriptions of individual weapons, since special materials reference the original material. I think the CRB expects you to use common sense and some sense of historical accuracy when thinking about the materials of a weapon. Very few weapons actually describe what they are made of. With that thinking almost everything could be made of adamantine....including a crossbow or a whip.
In this case common sense must prevail and a GM needs to draw a line. In a home game that line tends to favor the players and is pretty blurred. In PFS I try to stay as RAW and consistent, and that line is much more conservative in grey areas like that. So while I agree that RAW and a lack of descriptions gives you fudge room in regards to adamantine greatclubs I am going to stand by my line for the time being.
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This is a cituation where common sense goes a long way. I personally would allow a metal quaterstaff. There are plenty of examples in fantasy literature, the one that I usually remember is the 3rd Wizard of Earthsea book. The BBG has a metal staff. That does not mean that it is RAW but I would allow it in my home game. There just does not seem to be much of a reason not to. Its not like a wizard with a metal quarterstaff will suddenly become an unbalanced melee machine.
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Sorry to interrupt, but I'm having a special materials issue too, but mine is related to size & special materials. If a large masterwork chain shirt is 350 gp, then using the same concept a large mithral chainshirt should be 1200, but then some one brought up an issue of multiplying the cost of mithral (So 2400gp for 25 lbs armor.). I can live with that, but I'm actually trying to buy barding which would still double the weight but would quadruple the cost(4400gp for 25 lbs armor). So I'm totally lost on the proper way to add special materials to small or large weapons, armor, and barding.
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Rules for special materials say that an item must be primarily made of metal to use special materials such as Adamantine.
Rules on Staves say they are sometimes made out of exotic materials or metals.
Some staves (Such as staff of power) are enchanted as both a weapon and a Staff, and there is no reason you could not enchant a regular staff as a weapon.
Is it then legal (I suspect not but think it should be) to enchant an Adamantine Staff? Can you imagine how much it would hurt to try a retributive strike with that? "pictures bringing it down on ones knee".
On the PFS Module 'The Ruby Phoenix Tournament' Chronicle Sheet there is a +1 Spell Storing Adamantine Quaterstaff at a cost of 7300gp.
- Which should be 11,000gp if built from scratch:
Base Weapon Cost (Quarterstaff): 0 gp
Adamantine Material Cost: 3000 gp
+1 & Spell Storing (Net +2 Magic Weapon): 8000 gp
Total Cost: 11,000 gp
As a martial arts practitioner for 23 years now, there is a light weight staff made of wax wood, and a heavier oak fire hardened and shod in iron. The different is in the body mechanics.
A lighter staff can be handled more or less with just your arms but a heavier staff is wielded with the entire body. So, a weaker person can get a greater effect with the heavier staff just by moving properly.
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Items without metal parts cannot be made from adamantine. An arrow could be made of adamantine, but a quarterstaff could not.
Double weapons can have each head made from a different material. Each head costs the full special material price. If you could have such a staff, technically it wouldn't be an 'adamantine quarterstaff', it'd be an 'adamantine/adamantine quarterstaff', or an 'adamantine/mithral quarterstaff', or a 'cold iron/alchemical silver quarterstaff'. So an 'adamantine/adamantine quarterstaff' would cost 6000gp if allowed.
Conceptually though, there's nothing wrong with a tube-like metal quarterstaff; in Babylon 5 the Minbari Fighting Pike was basically a collapsible metal quarterstaff, and it was very cool indeed!