Eh, didn't know who Amanda Waller was anyway, so never had any expectations.
Man, you missed out on both Justice League AND Young Justice? You should go watch those.
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Back when I was younger I was into that imbecillic DC vs. Marvel or Wars vs. Trek mindset. So whichever I liked better was good, the other was utter crap. And I liked Marvel and Wars. Now I like all of it.
Only in the past few years have I started watching DC stuff.
Man, you missed out on both Justice League AND Young Justice? You should go watch those.
Watched Justice League for about 4 seasons and then got bored. Young Justice is on my to do list.
I am watching movies now. Just seen Flashpoint paradox the other day.
I agree that Waller looks like she could be snapped like a toothpick, and I remember her being much more physically imposing. I like the idea of the current woman being the face for the real Waller, though...
Also, am I the only one who caught the fact that they mentioned Diggle and his girl were using the Ostrander Suite at the beginning of the episode? Has anyone else noticed other "Easter eggs" that I missed?
Alright, I could have loved or hated this one, but I'm falling on the side of love. Certainly could nitpick a good deal, but generally I like it when it's strong on action, but there was just enough character development that there was some interesting stuff.
Jessica de Gouw is still not the greatest actress in the world but she's gotten better and I really bought her performance especially at the end of the episode.
- The general set up of the episode was interesting. The police trying to trap Helena through her father. I like how smug he is--he's how I'd picture a confident mob boss. There were holes in the details of the trap--a huge one being why would they have included real civilians if they knew it was going to be a trap for a dangerous, unstable vigilante?
- Helena's focus and obsession was strong. I liked seeing how at a loss she was at the end, and the conversation between her and Oliver at the end was the first time I enjoyed seeing the two of them interact and the first time I respected how Oliver treated her.
- I liked that we really got into the grey areas of Sara's character. I wish it wasn't quite so out of nowhere... it seemed like she did a very rapid heel-face-turn when she joined Team Arrow and just bought that she was supposed to be nonlethal, and much of what we had heard from her since was that she was tired of killing (see also that whole episode with Nyssa). Then we see: okay, just as she killed the Dollmaker, she is still willing to kill to protect her. I get it and why she's like that, I just didn't quite realize she wasn't entirely putting away the Assassin Card yet.
- That said, I am disappointed that Sara and Helena really didn't talk. (I DID like that Laurel and Helena talked, and it made sense for Laurel to do that.) But Sara and Helena have a lot in common, especially as Helena's whole thing is, once you start killing, you can't stop, you just have to keep diving into the "darkness" as she puts it. Sara is trying to test that in her life in her own way. It would be interesting to see Sara either agree with Helena or disagree with her from the standpoint from someone whose kill count might be just as high.
- OTOH, we did see that Canary tried to kill Helena and Laurel talked her out of it. So how does Helena interpret Canary's actions... and what does Helena think of Laurel saving her life? She won't act grateful, of that I am certain, but I wonder whether she is thankful or resentful.
- Prediction: Now that Helena is in jail, she will be hired to take Shrapnel's place in the Suicide Squad. (Check, and mate.)
- "Baby arrows." Heh.
- "I think you should go kick her ass." *nod*
- WTF Ollie and Roy with: hey, last episode we said everybody had to be watched 24/7 and protected, and now it's push away Thea so she'll be alone? Did neither of them realize that would mean no one was looking after her and thus she was out in the open for Slade to take? Which he did? I know they did this to get Thea in Slade's area of influence, but geez guys, can we not sacrifice common sense and characterization on the altar of plot so sloppily? There is a way you could have written that where it actually made sense.
- Mind, I am really EXCITED about that plot turn and kind of hope Slade turns Thea evil. It just was gotten to in a very, very sloppy way.
- "She's at the corner of Gail St. and Simone."
- I really hope Kate Spencer was just covering her ass and lying when she said she had no idea what was happening with Donner and the Helena Trap. (If I have a band, I think I will call it the Helena Trap.) Because otherwise she is the most incompetent DA in the history of DAs. I presume she just well might have been which is why Laurel felt free to blackmail her--Laurel realized she was still going to be dismissed as expendable and Kate could keep her as a liability away from her, and Laurel took that away from her. And yes, I realize Laurel deciding to turn to blackmail seems somehow weird and inconsistent and out of nowhere, but I so loved Katie Cassidy's b@@%+ face when she delivered the lines that I'm supporting it.
- A lot of the fight choreography was pretty awesome.
Was just about to bump this but I see there's no need.
First off, the major thing I got from this episode: Thea to Ollie (in an enjoyable way). I larfed. I always love the looks on the liar's face.
Second, I actually liked Laurel in this episode. Though the bit with there being not one, but multiple bottles of liquor IN A COURTHOUSE was very WTF worthy.
- WTF Ollie and Roy with: hey, last episode we said everybody had to be watched 24/7 and protected, and now it's push away Thea so she'll be alone? Did neither of them realize that would mean no one was looking after her and thus she was out in the open for Slade to take? Which he did? I know they did this to get Thea in Slade's area of influence, but geez guys, can we not sacrifice common sense and characterization on the altar of plot so sloppily? There is a way you could have written that where it actually made sense.
Stupid, it was, but out of character? I dunno. Ollie has always been over protective of Thea, and I kinda see where he's coming from. She's got a boyfriend on Super Roids™ with uncontrollable anger issues (as evidenced when he did a brute force version of the Vulcan Nerve Pinch on that guy in the bar). I think any big brother's first reaction to seeing that in action would be "Yeah dude stop seeing my sister".
RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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Second, I actually liked Laurel in this episode. Though the bit with there being not one, but multiple bottles of liquor IN A COURTHOUSE was very WTF worthy.
In a lawyer's or judge's office? I don't see why it's strange they'd have a few bottles there. Might not be smart to drink on the job, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and doesn't seem out of character for a judge or a lawyer (not saying all do, but doesn't strike me as odd that some would.)
Second, I actually liked Laurel in this episode. Though the bit with there being not one, but multiple bottles of liquor IN A COURTHOUSE was very WTF worthy.In a lawyer's or judge's office? I don't see why it's strange they'd have a few bottles there. Might not be smart to drink on the job, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and doesn't seem out of character for a judge or a lawyer (not saying all do, but doesn't strike me as odd that some would.)
In a private office, perhaps.
But in an actual courthouse, the office of a state lawyer?
You can get fired from pretty much any government position IMMEDIATELY by having alcohol in your office. Doesn't matter if you're a lawyer or work at DoT, you're out.
Has anyone else noticed other "Easter eggs" that I missed?
In the most recent Huntress episode, mobster Hugo Mannheim was mentioned. (Hugo, not Bruno?)
Second, I actually liked Laurel in this episode. Though the bit with there being not one, but multiple bottles of liquor IN A COURTHOUSE was very WTF worthy.In a lawyer's or judge's office? I don't see why it's strange they'd have a few bottles there. Might not be smart to drink on the job, but doesn't mean it doesn't happen, and doesn't seem out of character for a judge or a lawyer (not saying all do, but doesn't strike me as odd that some would.)In a private office, perhaps.
But in an actual courthouse, the office of a state lawyer?
You can get fired from pretty much any government position IMMEDIATELY by having alcohol in your office. Doesn't matter if you're a lawyer or work at DoT, you're out.
I know of places where they may keep some alcohol for after-office celebrations... or perhaps it had been ordered for an event held there, where it would be permissible as long as it was acquired through appropriate means (usually including rules that a security guard has to be present where the alcohol being served). But it did seem odd... especially as it seemed like there were multiple bottles sitting there (not, say, a bottle stashed in someone's drawer she happened to find, which would have made more sense).
My thought was that Slade will use her against Ollie and during a fight where almost everyone is defeated, Merlyn show up to save his daughter and turn the tide. Which is probably where Thea finds out that he is her father
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I saw Steven Amell at ECCC this weekend, and he did say he wants to have more scenes with John Barrowman....
"Women want him. Men want him too, but that's because he's Jack Harkness." :-)
I wonder if they're going to go full Wilson and give us either Joey or Rose. Especialy with the Nightwing thing, as Dick has history with both...
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I saw Steven Amell at ECCC this weekend, and he did say he wants to have more scenes with John Barrowman...."Women want him. Men want him too, but that's because he's Jack Harkness." :-)
I wonder if they're going to go full Wilson and give us either Joey or Rose. Especialy with the Nightwing thing, as Dick has history with both...
He also mentioned that Season 2 episode 1 introduced a new hero, and that very well might become a tradition each season.
The only other tidbit that I recall was that he was as excited as the fans about the Harley Quinn easter egg, and that it sounded like the producers want to use her in the show in the future.
That'd be cool. Wonder if they're actually going to get Tara Strong to play her (again). She actually kinda looks the part IRL, which is unusual for a voice actress.
Well, there is gonna be "Gotham" but it's not technically a Batman series.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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That'd be cool. Wonder if they're actually going to get Tara Strong to play her (again). She actually kinda looks the part IRL, which is unusual for a voice actress.
While she's too old for Harley, I'd love it if we see a picture of Harley's parents and it's Paul Dini and Arlene Sorkin. :-)
That was a fantastic episode - likely the best of the whole series thus far. I really enjoyed Olliver and Deathstroke maneuvering their respective chess pieces around (mostly with Olliver losing, unfortunately). He is like a wrecking ball when it comes to Ollie's secrets.
Rumors have gone that actress Cassidy Alexa will play Harley if and when she shows up, but I'm not sure if that has been substantiated.
Tonight's episode was good. It's sad though when I'm on Roy's side as he's probably the character I am least interested in. Oliver left Thea alone, and basically ensured she would remain alone. He enabled the whole situation. Slade's plan is brilliant... he's just playing Ollie's weaknesses.
Somebody tweeted this morning "Laurel's apartment is a hellmouth." So true.
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More thoughts:
On the surface, the overall action and progress of events was fun to watch.
A lot of little details frustrated me. The writers are good at big picture, but the devil's in the For example:
-- When Ollie, Sara, and Roy encountered Slade, he said "I'm not going to tell you where Thea is," and then Ollie knocked out Slade and called the police, my immediate assumption was -- okay, so they've recorded Slade talking about Thea to prove he is a suspect. Otherwise, they'd have no reason to call the police.
And yet... my presuming they were smart enough to do that was faulty (I have to keep reminding myself: everyone on this show is an idiot).
- So apparently Lance just agreed to arrest a guy based on absolutely no evidence whatsoever. Also, I don't know why Lance couldn't just say to the Detective (who I thought was dead? Am I thinking of someone else?), "I received an anonymous tip Thea Queen was seen with Slade Wilson and we went to investigate, and brought him in for questioning." Even if he was suspected of talking to the Arrow, they'd have no more proof than... well, the Arrow had.
- And (*sigh*) Roy was right--given the vigilantes had no evidence whatsoever to provide to the police, it made no sense that they called the police and they would have been much better served to capture Wilson and keep him hostage somewhere. Now, Bjorn above is right, Deathstroke needs to be winning in the short term--he needs to be an awesomely credible threat. I just wish they threaded the pieces together less shabbily.
- Sara was around her dad constantly this episode. The cops know that Lance is associated with the Arrow and, from the Birds of Prey episode, the Arrow now has a masked female associate of roughly Sara's size and shape. If they did have any common sense (which fortunately you cannot presume in this show), they would quickly put 2 and 2 together.
- On a broader issue -- speaking of Sara, we STILL have not been told what the Lance family officially knows about Sara's return. Quentin knows everything. Dinah knows that Sara had a psycho assassin ex girlfriend because said assassin kidnapped her. Laurel, more briefly, also saw the ex-girlfriend and the end of that confrontation. But Sara is also keeping her identity secret from Laurel (and Dinah, even if she's now off screen). So... what did she tell them? I was an ex-assassin's kept companion for five years? I met the crazy lady with the bow at a truck stop in China and she gave me a ride home?
- No matter how much Oliver was distracted, and no matter how stupid Oliver generally is, I still have trouble crediting him with the level of stupidity required for him to think that there would be no problem with him making Isobel CEO pro tem. Even though she had convincingly made herself a bit kinder and gentler in their last few encounters, not only did their whole interaction start with her attempting a hostile takeover of Queen Consolidated, but also HER NAME IS ON THE F~*!ING LIST. It was shown prominently several times in Season 1. Did the creators actually forget that? Oliver is supposed to have memorized that list--he didn't suspect maybe, just maybe, one of the people involved in the Undertaking might, just might, have ulterior motives?
(OTOH, if the creators actually didn't forget that Isobel is on the List, and they're just intentionally writing Oliver with the deduction skills and memory capacity of a mentally-crippled snail, is Merlyn somehow also connected with Slade/was Slade aware of/also involved in somehow with the Undertaking?)
- Kind of curious why Slade didn't just tell Thea also that Ollie was the Arrow. Although he may be milking that in a way that Ollie is forced to tell Thea himself later.
Okay, rant done. Things I did like:
- Slade is a magnificent bastard, even if his primary motivation is still utter and complete fabricated nonsense.
- Sara's slide down the dark side in the flashbacks. I still wish there were fewer flashbacks than there are (they are my least favorite aspect of the show--I really prefer a much stronger focus on the present day, and I thought the last mostly-flashback episode "The Promise" was like watching paint dry), but at least there's some interesting character development there from time to time.
- Laurel learning the truth about Ollie -- which I think will also cement any doubt she had that Sara is the Canary (again, at least assuming any of the characters have basic levels of reasoning skills and common sense, which is clearly NOT safe to assume). Although really I kind of expected her to be less shocked than she acted. (Also, seriously, Laurel, you need to f~$$ing move already. Also, why didn't you look through the eyehole on your door like you usually do? They have blocked you to do that several times, outlining your careful nature, so you not doing that this time seemed really OOC. Also, why am I addressing a fictional character directly?) There's also a great bit of brilliance in Slade telling Laurel this, because it means Laurel has the information that might free her father (although I have a feeling Quentin has suspected who the Arrow is for a long time).
- Moira, always Moira, evil and sympathetic and lovely. Susanna Thompson is an amazing actress. Unfortunately, I'm starting to get a feeling she's going to get killed by the end of the season.
- The fight between Ollie and Isobel in the board room was really unexpected and awesome. The show really excels when it focuses on action. Isobel is also very smart and I kind of hope she survives to remain a villain on the series for awhile (especially as she now has succeeded in getting the company).
Even with the ranting above--mostly venting--I am looking forward to seeing what happens next. Overall very much liking how things go and I think the last several episodes in particular have been handling the ensemble aspect of the show much better so I look forward to that hopefully continuing.
TWO WEEKS? AGHHHHHHHHHHHH.
A damn good episode. Getting better and better as they go.
** spoiler omitted **
Based on the dialogue...
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I think I liked Smallville better because Clark has awesome powers. Call me a kid at heart, but seeing Superman in action is much better. His super strength, speed, breath, heat vision allows him to break in and out of places unseen, be anywhere he wants, etc. and thus, the plot does not revolve around violence and killing all the time. A no power "hero" like Green Arrow is basically just a nut job vigilante killing crooks, now that you think of it... and the 'bow' choice of weapon does not really tend to nonlethal subjugation...
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I have watched the show dutifully since the beginning, but it's just not doing it for me anymore. I'm trying to find out why. Maybe it comes down to the simple fact that I've always found Superman more interesting than any other DC heroes? I don't know...
You'd think I'd like the show more with Slade (especially with that great actor from the Spartacus show and that co_CEO from Firefly) but it's not working its magic for me anymore. I think the constant flashback copout to explain everything is gnawing at my nerves. Flashback is ok to explain a few things at the beginning, but to do a flashback / parallel chronology EVERY TIME you bring a new character is very annoying, and cheapens the plot/intrigues set in the 'present'.
My two pennies anywho.... ;)
To an extent, what kind of supers you like can be an YMMV thing. Although I've been fond of Superman (hard not to be), and of course I adore Wonder Woman (nu52 version notwithstanding), normal-to-low powered heroes--people who aren't just handed something cool but earn it--most of the comics I've always read consist of this... in order of what I've collected since teenagerhood... that would be Catwoman, Huntress, occasional and assorted Batman-family books (though I've always hated Batman himself; he's a dick), Birds of Prey (which started when Dinah Laurel Lance had lost her Canary Cry), Green Arrow/Black Canary, Secret Six, Gotham City Sirens.... I especially love grey morality characters who are often deeply struggling with the decision between "what is right and what is easy," to paraphrase Dumbledore, so Arrow is exactly right up my alley. The only DC books I used to read with regularity where powers are notably featured were Wonder Woman, sometimes JLA, and I read the Movement (which is phenomenal, but has been cancelled; last issue comes out in May). I do read more "powered" books in Marvel now (Captain and Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, but I also read Hawkeye which falls into a more typical realm.)
Obviously I think there's room for both and get enjoyment out of both but don't really ever expect one to be the other.
For Arrow in particular, I really LIKE how they've gone from a vengeance driven killer to the protag trying to climb up the salmon ladder of justice to become "something else," as it were.
I DO agree that they spend FAR too much time on the flashbacks, and they take up valuable screentime desperately needed to the develop the characters in the here and now. The brief, occasional flashback would be fine, but I think they overly dominate the show and too often waste screentime on stuff we can infer without having to get the acted-out details of it.
Unfortunately, based on the executive producers' enthusiasm for the flashbacks in interviews, I assume they are what the EPs wank off to before they go to bed at night, and they aren't going away. I just tend to treat most of the flashback scenes as time to go pee or get a sandwich, and I'll rewind if I think I missed a key plot point.
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I love what Marvel is doing now, in general. My favourites: Hawkeye, Superior Spider-Man (Otto Octavius), New Avengers (Illuminati building WMDs), and anything Hickman does especially his run on Avengers (Ex Nihilo, the Builders, etc.) - Avengers and SHIELD are finally using Bruce Banner's genius potential (when the whole world was in a total blackout, he pinpointed the location of AIM Island, etc.) I also like Nova, GotG, the new Magneto has potential, and Deadpool... well... I just have to keep up with that title I think. Oh and Iron Man. Iron Man has been amazing. His adventures in space, his new-found brother, etc. Everything is cool. I like the last issue where Malekith yoinks one of the Mandarin rings and decide to go on a quest for the others.... pure joy! :)
On the other hand, I've totally discarded anything remotely related to X-Men, Wolverine, Punisher, Hulk and the rest. Am I missing out on something cool?
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Batman's father was in all kinds of social projects and wanted to raise the poor above their plight. I'm sure Batman still contributes to charities everywhere and the writers always make a point of showing off his good works, but is the man's mind really bent to this? Can a regular, non-powered hero ever act in a normal, non-lunatic way? Would Bruce Wayne do more good if committed 100% to help mankind instead of fighting crime and preventing world-domination plots dressed as a bat? Think of our real world's billionaires who command thousands of employees and try to enact their world vision through the works of their corporations... surely a guy like Bruce Wayne would see the benefit of a command center bent on coordinating his thousands of employees. Through proper project funding and diplomacy he could probably do better than Lex Luthor and would probably even act as an overlord of all super villains to keep them in check (give them dummy missions so that the super villains and Justice League keep each other busy while humanity advances on its own in the meantime...)
More thoughts:
** spoiler omitted **...
Excellent post. Every one of those things my wife has yelled at. And she's right.
There's no question whatsoever that the show relies on the characters' unbelievable stupidity to move the plot forward.
(Despite that, I too am curious to see what happens.)
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RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16
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I was confused by how Isobel "got control" of the company. The CEO title, sure, but doesn't Ollie still control 50% of the company stock?Probably not, most majority shareholders don't have that magic 50 percent plus one, even if they hold the largest single chunk of it. It's quite likely that someone else has either directly or through dummy agents (the way Bruce Wayne took back control over Wayne Corp), a larger chunk of the company, or has rallied support from a coalition that collectively owns a larger share. Which is how Steve Jobs was ousted from Apple's board back in the day.
I'm pretty sure in episode 1 or 2 of season 2, Ollie had 40% of the stock, and Isabel represented a group that controlled 50%. Ollie then got Walter to support him with his 10%, making it exactly a 50%/50% split.
Yeah, that's how I remember it.
I don't think Ollie would be going anywhere, really.
Man Under the Hood
Isabel is sort of a weak character in my opinion, and gets weaker by the moment. I've really lost all interest in her arc.
Introducing some Flash characters was interesting and cool.
The fight where Slade jumped them was pretty cool.
Liked the evolution of Laurel in this episode.
I appreciated that they've been able to keep Slade ahead of them by a couple steps.
Not sure about the reveal at the end regarding having had a chance to cure him.
I liked Digg getting a bit of a moment in the sun.
Really hoping Merlin comes back to help them against Slade.