We've all had them.
found the perfect combination of feats and class abilities put together an entire build around it and then had someone say , errr you see that sentence there , yeah you read that wrong it works this way ..... oh ? OH ?! sigh
I'd like to kick off with my personal favourite
Charge Attack + Vital Strike , oh the fun we could have had but never did.
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Prone shooter and shooting prone.
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Empower Spell+Maximize Spell to get 150% of the most damage possible without rolling any dice. Charge+vital strike was my first idea. :)
Vicious weapon + Damage reduction. I thought I was so clever :(.
Yeah I did that one too...
I have heard the old Vivisectionist with two extra vestigial arms, so 4 atks per round.
The bit about HiPS giving you Sneak attack.
Taking some feat or ability that lowers the cost of a metamagic ability so that your 1st level spells turn into cantrips.
I have never tried these, but I have heard them as "great ideas".
Sythesist Summoner. Looks great on paper until you realize you are intentionally cutting your action economy in half and your eidolon isn't any better then a straight summoner's pet.
Its a Trap!
Sythesist Summoner. Looks great on paper until you realize you are intentionally cutting your action economy in half and your eidolon isn't any better then a straight summoner's pet.
Its a Trap!
But it's a trap with lots of flavor!
a recent one of mine
tactican + stealth synergy does not mean you add up everyone stealth skill modifier and add that huge bonus to the best d20 roll and then give that number to everyone in the group as a stealth roll
Was going to be the perfect way to break combat and dissapear
NINJA VANISH !
And that flavor is still Limburger cheese.But it's a trap with lots of flavor!Sythesist Summoner. Looks great on paper until you realize you are intentionally cutting your action economy in half and your eidolon isn't any better then a straight summoner's pet.
Its a Trap!
Dragonamedrake: Have you tried running a synthesist? Yes you lose on action economy compared to a straight summoner... but seriously, super OP. You can easily build a synthesist to have better AC AND saves AND Hp than most other classes in the game while STILL having incredible melee potential AND being a very solid spellcaster. All at the same time (If you build it right).
Not a trap unless you aren't very familiar with the archetype/class/game system.
Spring Attack and Vital Strike
Using greater teleport to get to far away celestial planetoids
Monk flurry with a single two-handed monk weapon
Setting fire to a grease spell
Using shocking grasp or lightning bolt to electrocute everyone in contact with a body of water
Nobody ever took vital strike in my games, so I have houseruled vital strike so there is ANY incentive for anyone to ever take it:
Can be used any time you are limited to one attack per round (charge, spring, etc), increases damage by 2d6 per feat, both to make it decent for people using smaller weapons, and to limit the cheese of wielding an oversized weapon, cast lead blades and enlarge self to do 16d8 or whatever.
Works surprisingly well. Most fighting types still prefer full attack, but at least now the gap in damage is not in the 3-digit zone at levels 10+.
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Prone shooter and shooting prone.
That one was prone to failure. ;)
Shadow Gambit + Ghost Sound. It would have been so cool: the whistling of an incoming bomb, and then: *boom* real damage.
Real damage to the tune of 1d6 per spell level, on a 0 level spell... :P
Setting fire to a grease spell
I don't I was ever quite as sad about a spell not working the way I thought it should :P
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And that flavor is still Limburger cheese.But it's a trap with lots of flavor!Sythesist Summoner. Looks great on paper until you realize you are intentionally cutting your action economy in half and your eidolon isn't any better then a straight summoner's pet.
Its a Trap!
Dragonamedrake: Have you tried running a synthesist? Yes you lose on action economy compared to a straight summoner... but seriously, super OP. You can easily build a synthesist to have better AC AND saves AND Hp than most other classes in the game while STILL having incredible melee potential AND being a very solid spellcaster. All at the same time (If you build it right).
Not a trap unless you aren't very familiar with the archetype/class/game system.
Its not that Sythesist isn't powerful. Sure it is. But its LESS optimized compared to a normal Sythesist. Thats fine. You dont have to play the most optimized build ever. But for some reason there is a portion of the community on these forums who think Sythesist are BETTER then a normal Summoner. Thats a mistake.
You get Absolutly NO BENEFIT for being a Sythesist other than the whole defensive quality of being cacooned. But a normal Eidolon is every bit as good as a Sythesist.... and it can attack while you cast.
An example: There was a recent topic on what GM's ban. Alot said Summoners period. Fine. I can see that. But some banned Sythesist specificly and allowed Master Summoner and Normal Summoner.... huh?
On a power scale this is how it goes...
Master Summoner > Summoner > Sythesist. Boggles my mind when you ban the least powerful version of a class and let the rest go willy nilly.
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We don't ban Synthesist because it's overpowered, we ban it as it's broken. There are more FAQ and threads (and still unresolved questions) about that archetype than any other.
And, it's just a archetype, so banning it doesn't do much.
Now, we ban Master Summoner as it's overpowered.
Synth is one of those great in concepts that just didn't translate well into actual rules.
We don't ban Synthesist because it's overpowered, we ban it as it's broken. There are more FAQ and threads (and still unresolved questions) about that archetype than any other.
And, it's just a archetype, so banning it doesn't do much.
Now, we ban Master Summoner as it's overpowered.
Are there still unresolved questions? I thought pretty much everything was cleared up.. I've been running them without any rules issues for a while now
Are there still unresolved questions? I thought pretty much everything was cleared up.. I've been running them without any rules issues for a while nowWe don't ban Synthesist because it's overpowered, we ban it as it's broken. There are more FAQ and threads (and still unresolved questions) about that archetype than any other.
And, it's just a archetype, so banning it doesn't do much.
Now, we ban Master Summoner as it's overpowered.
I can see why someone would ban it if you had rules issues (though I agree with interzone; I think most of those are cleared up or easily house-ruled). But there are those that for some reason think the Sythesist adds power to the summoner which imo, is just not true.
I can see why someone would ban it if you had rules issues (though I agree with interzone; I think most of those are cleared up or easily house-ruled). But there are those that for some reason think the Sythesist adds power to the summoner which imo, is just not true.Are there still unresolved questions? I thought pretty much everything was cleared up.. I've been running them without any rules issues for a while nowWe don't ban Synthesist because it's overpowered, we ban it as it's broken. There are more FAQ and threads (and still unresolved questions) about that archetype than any other.
And, it's just a archetype, so banning it doesn't do much.
Now, we ban Master Summoner as it's overpowered.
I guess it how you perceive power, if you see that Synth can have the highest effective hit point total by a mile and you find that a measure of OP then ok
If you think being able to dump physical abilities like the old 3.5 wildshape druid/MoMF then that may seem OP
If you see being able to pounce with 3+ natural attacks from the get go OP.....
Alot of people don't put value on standard move and swift actions which is basically where this game is won and lost. Which is why alot don't consider the eidolon separate a more powerful choice even though it is.
Charge+vital strike was my first idea. :)
It was several weeks before my gaming group realized exactly how Vital Strike worked. The DM let everyone trade in their Vital Strike feats (inc. Devastating Strike) because the instances where it did work almost never came up.
Fighter Archer's trickshot ability + imp. snapshot + pindown=/= get an AoO when they try 5', prevent the 5' and trip them at the same time.
Combat reflexes + reposition
I build a pc around using a reach weapon to get the opponents to provoke by coming near just to move them back where they came from. Then we noticed that you can't reposition as a AoO.
Extending the duration of spells with additional castings WITHOUT resetting their effects.
EXAMPLE: Living your adventuring life in a monster's host body via magic jar, casting the spell each day to extend the duration. (In reality each new casting doesn't extend the duration, but resets the effect, causing the monster to be freed and putting you back in the jar each time you recast the spell.)
Charge+vital strike was my first idea. :)It was several weeks before my gaming group realized exactly how Vital Strike worked. The DM let everyone trade in their Vital Strike feats (inc. Devastating Strike) because the instances where it did work almost never came up.
Umm, so maybe I am missing something. It looks to me like you can get a extra damage die (or even 2 with some weapons) when you charge or move and attack, or anytime you are not getting a FAO.
Vital Strike (Combat)
You make a single attack that deals significantly more damage than normal.
Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you use the attack action, you can make one attack at your highest base attack bonus that deals additional damage. Roll the weapon's damage dice for the attack twice and add the results together before adding bonuses from Strength, weapon abilities (such as flaming), precision based damage, and other damage bonuses. These extra weapon damage dice are not multiplied on a critical hit, but are added to the total.
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Umm, so maybe I am missing something. It looks to me like you can get a extra damage die (or even 2 with some weapons) when you charge or move and attack, or anytime you are not getting a FAO.
Has to do with that pesky "When you use the attack action". An attack action is a specific action type, separate from a charge. So you can't use it when charging. Ditto it's use with Spring Attack.
How often are you neither Full Attacking or charging?
When you just walk up and hit them? I.e. when they are more than a 5' step away. Charging loses as much as it gains.
When you just walk up and hit them? I.e. when they are more than a 5' step away. Charging loses as much as it gains.
+2 to hit is generally worth more than 2 AC
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One of the players in my group came up with this krazy kombo:
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5fze&page=1?We-are-the-Brothers-Cut
Yeow! I'm really glad this isn't totally legal.
Well, I learned something new, I thought setting fire to a grease spell did work, is there some variation of spreading something on the ground that does work if you set it on fire? Or am I just thinking of Dragon Age?
It's an old one, but enlarge person, chain whip, combat reflexes. 3 or 4 attacks of opportunity before they ever got to you, but no, movement only ever provokes once. It took our group a good while to notice that one. Until then melee was owned by my friend the CHAIN GUY.
Honestly, I had the same reaction to Vital Strike: cool idea, poor execution. Then we houseruled it to apply anytime you make a single attack (that is not an AoO).
- Gauss
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Well, I learned something new, I thought setting fire to a grease spell did work, is there some variation of spreading something on the ground that does work if you set it on fire? Or am I just thinking of Dragon Age?
There is this from Complete Mage in 3.5.
One of the players in my group came up with this krazy kombo:
http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz5fze&page=1?We-are-the-Brothers-CutYeow! I'm really glad this isn't totally legal.
Was that the greater trip+viscious stomp thing??
When you just walk up and hit them? I.e. when they are more than a 5' step away. Charging loses as much as it gains.+2 to hit is generally worth more than 2 AC
How so? +2 to hit affects only your attacks, -2 to AC is equivalent to a +2 attack bonus for all your opponents; as soon as your opponents have more attacks than you, it's a net loss.
How so? +2 to hit affects only your attacks, -2 to AC is equivalent to a +2 attack bonus for all your opponents; as soon as your opponents have more attacks than you, it's a net loss.When you just walk up and hit them? I.e. when they are more than a 5' step away. Charging loses as much as it gains.+2 to hit is generally worth more than 2 AC
That would be the case if your AC and the enemies AC are the same, which isn't necessarily the case.
Obviously a +2 hit is great to have against high AC enemies. If you only hitting them on an 18+, then a +2 basicly doubles your hit chance.
If you already hit them on pretty much everything but a nat 1, then a +2 is rather useless.
Inbetween it's still good, but the lower the target AC gets the less in relation to what you already have you get from it.
The same goes for your AC. If you have very high AC, then a -2 is actually bad. If you have low AC, then a -2 might not make much difference. Seems paradox, but yes.
To add to Quatar's statement, first strike can be quite important. It may be worthwhile to get that first hit in and the +2 may be extremely beneficial in that regard.
Also: even if the BBEG has more attacks than you do it is still not necessarily a net loss. It depends on DPR. IF the BBEG has more DPR than you do it MIGHT be a net loss (see Qatar's statement regarding paradoxical AC penalties/bonuses).
Example: BBEG has a higher DPR than you do. If you lose -2AC it's DPR may not improve (a 2 to hit is still a 2 to hit).
However, if you gain +2attack bonus you may have just increased your DPR significantly (provided you did not also need a 2 to hit).
- Gauss
Stunning Fist + Cockatrice Strike; your stun doesn't last long enough.
(Cockatrice Strike is actually pretty crappy, so it probably doesn't belong under "best rule combos".)
Charge and Ride-By Attack. Lame.How does this not work?
Charging requires you to move directly towards the target and Ride-By Attack is somewhat pointless unless you move to the side of your target.