Evocation optimization?


Advice

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Magicdealer wrote:

I just wanted to run through one of the suggested builds above. The sorc1/wizard 19

Crossblooded for the extra damage bonuses.
I'd go with draconic for the first one. That provides +1 damage per die for the appropriate energy type. Let's pick fire to make this easy on me.

For the second bloodline, I'd go with the orc bloodline. It adds 1 point of damage per die rolled.

Grab the Tattooed sorcerer for the varsian tattoo feat and add one caster level to your evocation spells. Pick up magical knack (wizard).

Can you explain how you're taking two archetypes: Crossblooded and Tattooed at first level?


You can stack archtypes as long as they do not replace any of the same class features. A classic example is the Ranger Skirmisher/Guide


Ravingdork wrote:

Here's a pretty good example of a high damage blaster sorcerer.

He can hit a foe with a maximized fire snake for 127 damage followed by a quickened fire snake for an average of 89.5 damage for a total average of of 216.5 damage per round to multiple enemies. He even has dazing spell, so he can stun-lock multiple enemies while he wears them down with his direct damage.

Thanks to intensify spell, he can blast well with lower level spells too, and by the time he reaches 20th-level will be dealing around 290 damage to multiple enemies at once. No army will be able to stand against him.

And that's not even optimized. If he had empower spell and a metamagic rod, he could do far more damage every round. With different spells or feat/class/ability choices, he could deal just as much damage, but of varying energy types.

You need to shift 2 points into Spellcraft Spell Perfection requires 15 ranks.


Dexion1619 wrote:
You can stack archtypes as long as they do not replace any of the same class features. A classic example is the Ranger Skirmisher/Guide

You're telling me you can take 2 Archetypes at FIRST level?


A popular combination is Bladebound Kensai Magus.


Iced2k wrote:
Dexion1619 wrote:
You can stack archtypes as long as they do not replace any of the same class features. A classic example is the Ranger Skirmisher/Guide
You're telling me you can take 2 Archetypes at FIRST level?

Yes you can, why did you thought you couldn't?


yes, you can take two archtypes at first level as long as you do not cross over the things that each archtype replaces, so for example crossblooded is an archtype that has some draw backs to have 2 bloodlines, tattoo'd sorcerer changes some of the bloodline powers and feats, so they are perfectly fine to stack.

Dark Archive

Before anyone runs off to build the mentioned awesome blaster for PFS, I have to point out that neither Varisian Tattoo nor the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype are legal for Organized Play. Just FYI.

Lantern Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
Iced2k wrote:
Dexion1619 wrote:
You can stack archtypes as long as they do not replace any of the same class features. A classic example is the Ranger Skirmisher/Guide
You're telling me you can take 2 Archetypes at FIRST level?

Don't feel bad; I glossed over that line in the archetypes section, too. Multiple archetypes are totally kosher, so long as they don't replace the same abilities. Some just don't go very well together.

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Entropi wrote:
Before anyone runs off to build the mentioned awesome blaster for PFS, I have to point out that neither Varisian Tattoo nor the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype are legal for Organized Play. Just FYI.

Looks like they're allowed to me.

For Inner Sea Magic, it specifically mentions a ruling related to them:

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic

Other: all magical tattoos on page 16, both the spellscar and outer rifts oracle mysteries on pages 30–31 (the spellscar oracle does not gain access to the eldritch scar, primal mastery, or trigger primal magic event revelations), all archetypes on pages 32–43 except the primalist wizard archetype, with the following restrictions: only elves may be spire defender magi, a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios), a vampire hunter inquisitor does not gain the silversmith ability, instead replacing detect alignment with detect undead; the Varisian Pilgrim does not replace her 8th-level domain power with Blessing of the Harrow.

No point in doing that unless it's legal.

And Varisian Tattoo isn't on the list of banned feats from Inner Sea World Guide:

Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea World Guide

Feats: all feats on pages 284–289 except Cypher Magic, Cypher Script, Eye of the Arclord, Fortune Teller, Hamatulatsu, Harrowed, and Shade of the Uskwood;

Dark Archive

Entropi wrote:
Before anyone runs off to build the mentioned awesome blaster for PFS, I have to point out that neither Varisian Tattoo nor the Tattooed Sorcerer archetype are legal for Organized Play. Just FYI.

Citation needed.

Dark Archive

Wow. I'm sure it was when I built my sorcerer. I would have loved to be tattooed... *SOB!

Shadow Lodge Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8

Entropi wrote:
Wow. I'm sure it was when I built my sorcerer. I would have loved to be tattooed... *SOB!

Well you can still take the feat :)

Dark Archive

And I sure will, as soon as I level up.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

NOte that Empower increases variable damage by 50%. It's basically DM's call if the fixed damage per die is increased by 50%, also. It's not much, but it's a possible detractor.

Very nice build and concept. I would put the Quickened Scorching Ray as your level 6 Quickened, instead of a Burning Hands...12d6+ 30ish? fixed damage is better then burning hands.

Also note that Burning Hands is VERY short range, which is very bad place for a blaster to be. I'd recommend Magic Missile for some range, but it doesn't work nearly as well with intensify.

==Aelryinth


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Cos1983 wrote:
You need to shift 2 points into Spellcraft Spell Perfection requires 15 ranks.

Thanks! (And I'm actually 5 ranks short, you need to account for the +3 class skill bonus.)

EDIT: Fixed it. The linked character sheet should have the correct numbers now.

Silver Crusade

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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Set wrote:

.

Note to self; make an 'Embiggen Cone' feat.

Sounds like a perfectly cromulent feat choice.


The biggest problem with scorching ray is you lose out a lot on the single target from additional damage from things like half orc favoured class levels and the admixture school power or any traits you may take. However if there is only one target scorching ray is the way to go, there is also a possibility of building around scorching ray and the precise shot tree and stacking things like dazing spell to make a damage/control ray caster.

All in all sorching ray is safer than burning hands but burning hands tends to be better against numerous lower cr opponents like you find in AP's, against single high cr opponents the rime build is excellent for some damage with built in debuffing, but dazing spell is probably a better condition metamagic to aim for even if it is a little expensive.


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Aelryinth wrote:

NOte that Empower increases variable damage by 50%. It's basically DM's call if the fixed damage per die is increased by 50%, also. It's not much, but it's a possible detractor.

Not so. From the FAQ:

Quote:


Empower Spell (page 122): If I use Empower Spell on a spell that has a die roll with a numerical bonus (such as cure moderate wounds), does the feat affect the numerical bonus?

Yes. For example, if you empower cure moderate wounds, the +50% from the feat applies to the 2d8 and to the level-based bonus.


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Just a note from this thread which i'm not sure is correct but if it is, the thassilonian wrath specialist with admixture sub school gets 3 additional spells per spell level for evocation spells, two of which have to be the same.

That would mean with an int of 20 you would have 1 spell, 2 stat bonus, 1 evocation and 2 evocation that must be the same. The build i posted at second level would have silent image(dc11) 3/day from sorc, 2 burning hands(2d4+5 dc17), a shocking grasp(2d6+5), a charm person(dc16), a vanish and an enlarge person.

If that interpretation is correct its an even stronger spec than i thought in the first place.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Alientude, thank you for the FAQ confirmation. I've seen it posted enough places that people don't want to include it that it's good to have official confirmation otherwise.

So, they built a wizard that has more spells/day then a sorcerer. At what, the cost of two spell schools?

Why am I perfectly not surprised. And it's based on Sin Magic, which is the evil corruption of Azlanti magic. Wonderful!

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

Alientude, thank you for the FAQ confirmation. I've seen it posted enough places that people don't want to include it that it's good to have official confirmation otherwise.

So, they built a wizard that has more spells/day then a sorcerer. At what, the cost of two spell schools?

Why am I perfectly not surprised. And it's based on Sin Magic, which is the evil corruption of Azlanti magic. Wonderful!

==Aelryinth

I'm honestly suprised, having read it again it does seem to work that way but its a very powerful option for certain schools.

transmutation and conjuration become very powerful with this option as they give up very little in the illusion field and a secondary field that is easy to replace or replicate.

evocation and necromancy could be very good but they do both give up abjuration, though dropping conjuration as an evoker is a harder choice than dropping enchantment as a necromancer. inversely if you don't mind dropping those schools abjuration is also a strong choice if very defensive.

enchantment is a hard to swallow loss in it giving up transmutation though losing necromancy isn't a huge loss. illusion has it just as bad if not worse having to give up two of the power schools in conjuration and transmutation which i just don't think i could do.

any optimised specialist who doesn't consider it is probably not optimising and in the case of transmutation and conjuration its probably a must have. 7 spells per level per day plus stat bonuses could see a wizard with 10/10/10/10/9/8/7/6 at level 15.

the spec i posted at level 7 when it first picks up spontaineous fireballs would have 9/8/7. thats 2 magic missile and a shocking grasp with 6 other level 1 spells, 2 scorching rays and an intensified burning hands with 5 other level 2 spells, 2 lightning bolts and a draconic reservoir with 4 other level 3 spells, any of the level three spells can be dropped to fireball and the spec still has 3/day silent image from its sorcerer dip.

i'm begining to think my optimised conjuration controller is underpowered.

Scarab Sages

Aelryinth wrote:

NOte that Empower increases variable damage by 50%. It's basically DM's call if the fixed damage per die is increased by 50%, also. It's not much, but it's a possible detractor.

==Aelryinth

Hmmm... honestly, I wasn't thinking about empower increasing the fixed damage. My thought process was that the two bloodline bonuses to damage are based on the number of dice rolled. Since empower increased the number of dice rolled, the bloodlines would count those dice rolled as well.

I'm beginning to think that a blaster caster needs to focus more on defense than other casters, since positioning and proximity become more of an issue for them. Granted, there are plenty of ways for a caster to have defenses up, but it's an interesting question as to whether it's worthwhile for the blaster to use a round to cast, say, greater invisibility, or to stack on up defensive gear and spend that first turn blasting instead.

Movement becomes more important for the blaster too, especially movement that doesn't use up any of the caster's actions. So mounts (and similar) are extra useful for this kind of caster. Flying up over the enemies won't be a great option most of the time when you're talking about using a cone or line effect. Just something else to consider.


Magicdealer wrote:
Aelryinth wrote:

NOte that Empower increases variable damage by 50%. It's basically DM's call if the fixed damage per die is increased by 50%, also. It's not much, but it's a possible detractor.

==Aelryinth

Hmmm... honestly, I wasn't thinking about empower increasing the fixed damage. My thought process was that the two bloodline bonuses to damage are based on the number of dice rolled. Since empower increased the number of dice rolled, the bloodlines would count those dice rolled as well.

I'm beginning to think that a blaster caster needs to focus more on defense than other casters, since positioning and proximity become more of an issue for them. Granted, there are plenty of ways for a caster to have defenses up, but it's an interesting question as to whether it's worthwhile for the blaster to use a round to cast, say, greater invisibility, or to stack on up defensive gear and spend that first turn blasting instead.

Movement becomes more important for the blaster too, especially movement that doesn't use up any of the caster's actions. So mounts (and similar) are extra useful for this kind of caster. Flying up over the enemies won't be a great option most of the time when you're talking about using a cone or line effect. Just something else to consider.

A few points in ride + the Mount or Phantom Steed spell seems like an easy solution for mobility if you're using lots of cones/lines.

It also solves the issue for low level sorcerers wanting to cast Intensified Burning Hands as a full-round action but needing to move into position first.

Edit: on second thought, are the mounts from these spells war trained? Or do you have to be making DC 20 ride checks to "Control Mount in Battle"?

Clearly the solution is a small-sized sorcerer (Gnome for pyromaniac alternate racial trait!) riding in a backpack of the party reach weapon fighter!

Scarab Sages

Oh yeah!
MASTER BLASTER!! MASTER BLASTER!!!


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

There are a few things about the feat 'Spell Specialization' that I want to reiterate because I think a lot of people are overlooking them. First in the aforementioned build he gains 'Spell Specialization' at 3rd level and because you can change the spell you are specialized in every other time you level up you initially specialize in Burning Hands so from 3rd level on you are +3 caster levels over your actual wizard level for casting whatever your favorite blasting spell is.

Secondly 'Spell Specialization' opens up the feat 'Greater Spell Specialization' which is a godsend for a blaster. This allows you spontaneously cast your specialized spell just like a cleric does with cure spells. Suddenly you memorize only utility/defensive/crowd control/buff spells and then spontaneous turn them into the right blast for the right moment, and of course you can modify them with metamagic but when you do they take a full round action. Admittedly you have to be a level 9 wizard to do this but it still gives you much of the advantages of a blasting sorcerer while also having the advantages of an admixture specialized wizard. For your fixed evocation slots you can memorize the evocation battlefield control spells like Wall of Force or Resilient Sphere, versatility and blasty all in one neat package.

Scarab Sages

Hey, you're right, I was totally overlooking that. I didn't even include it into the build I vaguely described above. So a human could nab spell focus and spell specialization at first level. He'll have plenty of opportunity to switch it around for the best possible spell. Actually, I think this makes the blaster more likely to use his higher level slots. He'll need to intensify spells much sooner.


Magicdealer wrote:
Hey, you're right, I was totally overlooking that. I didn't even include it into the build I vaguely described above. So a human could nab spell focus and spell specialization at first level. He'll have plenty of opportunity to switch it around for the best possible spell. Actually, I think this makes the blaster more likely to use his higher level slots. He'll need to intensify spells much sooner.

Fortunately the build i posted for admixture wizard with crossblooded tattooed sorcerer dip did included it, however i did make an error in taking greater specialisation early. I'd swap places with that and improved initiative, but like i said the feat selections are not set in stone.

One thing to mention about the defensive approach is the it may not be needed at all depending on party position and skill, the build i posted has the potential to have +12 initiative at level 1 if you go human rather than elf or still reaching +9 as an elf. If you go first and you have good party positioning you can move forward and do your byrning hands and tge party will then move to cover you, once fireball comes online you have the option scorching ray as well so your range drastically increases and when your using fire snake you can even weave it around party members while engaged in combat while still creating carnage. You should also always have the option of not blasting and droppingba silent image or a transmutation buff or a necromany debuff. Your main defensive spell will be mirror image, your weakest save will probably be willpower for quite some time. Sin magic wrath outright bans abjuration and conjuration so defensive spells need to come from illusion or transmutation however movement spells such as fly and spider climb are excellent. I would consider mounted combat if you can somehow gain the services of a flying mount via leadership or gold or maybe polymorphing your compy tattoo familiar into something bigger but thats a little risky if your using the scroll master archtype.

Liberty's Edge

I know that one of the restrictions of Thassilonian Specialist is that you are prohibited from using spell trigger or spell completion items to cast spells from your prohibited schools without making Use Magic Device checks, but...

In the case of builds with one sorcerer level you should be able to use such items without making the checks (since they're also on your spell list--even though they're not spells known--as a sorcerer).

Grand Lodge

if you want to see a level 10 sorcerer, with no magic item needed !
Doing more than 210 damage, 20 times per day (one target though) NOT allowing SR nor ST !
look there:

the early levels are difficult, like any other spellcaster I guess, but you don't have to wait level 10 to blast hard. this was just an example level.

Scarab Sages

Couple problems with that build.


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Which blast at low level?
At mid levels, Fireball is an obvious choice. At high levels, Fire Snake is fantastic.

What about levels 1-5? Burning Hands seems to be the obvious choice, but how do the other options stand up?

Let's assume are character is:

Human cross-blooded orc red draconic tattooed sorcerer 1
Feats: spell focus evocation, spell specialization, varisian tattoo.

The contenders (orc and draconic damage bonuses included):

Burning Hands: d4+2 per level, 15' cone, reflex for half
-Pro: high damage, hits multiple targets
-Con: 15' cone requires you to get dangerously close to the enemy. Also, for a sorcerer (not a problem for the acid admixture wizard), using a metamagic feat with burning hands means you can't move into position, which is problematic.

Magic Missile: d4+2 per 2 levels beyond 1st, medium range, auto hit, no save
-Pro: auto hit, force damage, medium range, no save, combine with toppling spell for tripping
-Con: lower damage, multiple targets split up the damage.

Ear-piercing Scream: d6+1 per 2 levels, daze for 1 round, close range, fortitude for half damage, no daze
-Pro: secondary daze effect, close range, sonic damage
-Con: lower damage, single target

Did I miss any? I'm ignoring touch spells as that just seems too risky.

Let's compare at level 1 and level 4! Assuming spell specialization for the chosen spell, Orc bonus for all, Orc + Primal/Draconic bonus for burning hands.

LEVEL 1 (caster level 4 with tattoo and specialization)
Human, cross-blooded orc and red draconic, tattooed, sorcerer 1
Feats: spell focus evocation, spell specialization, varisian tattoo.

Burning hands: 4d4+8 (avg. 18) fire damage, 15' cone, reflex for half.

Magic Missile: 2d4+4 (avg. 9) force damage, medium range, auto hit, no save.

Ear-piercing Scream: 2d6 + 2 (avg. 9) sonic damage, daze, close range, fortitude half and no daze.

LEVEL 4 (caster level 7 with tattoo and specialization)
Human, cross-blooded orc and red draconic, tattooed, sorcerer 1
Feats:
1: spell focus evocation, spell specialization, varisian tattoo.
3: Intensify spell OR toppling spell

Intensified Burning Hands: 7d4+14 (avg. 31.5) fire damage, 15' cone, reflex for half.
Regular Burning Hands: 5d4+10 (avg. 22.5)
-I included the non-intensified spell for reference because positioning for the intensified burning hands seems tricky with a full-round action cast time.

Toppling Magic Missile: 4d4+8 (avg. 18), trip!, medium range, auto hit, no save.

Ear-piercing Scream: 3d6 + 3 (avg. 13.5) sonic damage, daze, close range, fortitude half and no daze.

CONCLUSIONS:
Burning hands: huge damage. If your goal is to one-shot your enemies right out of the gate, this is the best choice.

Magic Missile: less damage, but still a contender due to range and auto hit/no save. If you can fit toppling spell into your build, the magic missile/toppling spell trick seems very strong for a second level spell slot, and remains useful throughout your spell casting career. At low levels you still have solid chance of one-shotting weaker opponents, and it's excellent for picking off runners.

Ear-piercing Scream: sucks (for this concept). Interesting spell in other situations maybe, but not good for the blaster.

Personally, I'd take magic missile, even though the damage from burning hands is considerable, as the precision and tripping abilities of magic missile will be a great complement to fireball later on, while burning hands will fall by the wayside. And you can safely hide behind your allies rather than having to get into the thick of it to cast burning hands.


Beebs, the point of all the posts i made about dipping sorc and leveling as admixture wizard where that you don't have to pick as a wizard, since your trying to do damage you might as well focus on damage and your memorising intensified burning hands so your cast time is standard.

however, if you were going sorcerer i would also probably go magic missile rather than burning hands. the reasons i would give are that you will be changing your spell specialisation spell to a differnet spell (probably fireball) at level 7 anyway so burning hands would lose a lot of damage, and magic missle can still be relevant at a higher level when burning hands is just not viable since its force damage and it auto hits.

toppling spell is a trap, it is not very effective against most opponents and actually makes it harder for you to land your proper blasting spells such as scorching ray. the real reason to use magic missile is against things with a high energy resistance to your chosen damage type or against creatures that are incorporeal.

i would most likely swap out my level one blasts for buffs or controls once i could cast an aoe and single target (fireball and ray) at higher levels anyway.


Hobgoblin Shogun wrote:
I realize it gets a bad rap for being weak and boring, so can we make it better? Want kind of build can a wiz (faster spells) or a sor (more spells per day) make to squeeze the best burnmage blaster possible?

I do not read the entire thread because i am too lazy but

1) Evocation is not a weak school of magic, you have blast and battlefield controlling spells(like http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/chain-of-perdition), and with metamagic you can be a good debuffer too.

2) Boring is a subjective concept, I do like evokers and i do like blast spells.

3) Blast can be a very good option, you do not need to kill all the enemies at once, if you hurt enough the BBEG another Pc can kill it in the same round, if your spell help the party to win the battle that all that matters.

4) even if you are a blaster that do not means that you have to blast all the time. A good wizard always have to have several choices. A wizard that have all his 3rd level slots with ligthingbolt deserve a quick but extremely painful dead.

5) The only metamgic feat that you need to be good at buffing is extend, so you can be still competent when not balsting.


Egoish wrote:
Beebs, the point of all the posts i made about dipping sorc and leveling as admixture wizard where that you don't have to pick as a wizard, since your trying to do damage you might as well focus on damage and your memorising intensified burning hands so your cast time is standard.

Oh I agree. I think I did mention that the casting time wasn't an issue for the Wizard... I just figured the fire blaster Sorcerer was a simpler build for comparison.

Outside of the part about casting time, I think the comparison is still relevant, because while the wizard can happily memorize both spells, they still have to pick which one to have spell specialization for until they get fireball.

Regarding toppling spell, I can totally see it not being as good as it initially seems... I guess I just find the blast+debuff combo very appealing conceptually, so am always searching for ways to do that ;)


Beebs wrote:
Egoish wrote:
Beebs, the point of all the posts i made about dipping sorc and leveling as admixture wizard where that you don't have to pick as a wizard, since your trying to do damage you might as well focus on damage and your memorising intensified burning hands so your cast time is standard.

Oh I agree. I think I did mention that the casting time wasn't an issue for the Wizard... I just figured the fire blaster Sorcerer was a simpler build for comparison.

Outside of the part about casting time, I think the comparison is still relevant, because while the wizard can happily memorize both spells, they still have to pick which one to have spell specialization for until they get fireball.

Regarding toppling spell, I can totally see it not being as good as it initially seems... I guess I just find the blast+debuff combo very appealing conceptually, so am always searching for ways to do that ;)

For the sorc magic missile is a good fall back spell for when your best trick won't work (fire resist etc), if i was going for a control blast i'd use dazing spell, it costs a lot more but when you use it on a spell perfected spell at high levels its the only way to blast/control.


Quote:
Ear-piercing Scream: sucks (for this concept)

This is the only 1st level spell in the game that deals damage (a damage type that isn't resisted often), has a daze (which is huge in combat), attacks fortitude (something very few 1st level spells do), and scales well. Really the only knock against it is the range.

Liberty's Edge

Some thoughts about the Sorc1/Wizard(Admixture)x build (that was Egoish's build, I think)...

If you're going to Crossblood 1 level of Sorcerer, why not Orc instead of Primal (Earth) as one of your two bloodlines? Wouldn't it be better to get +1 per die on all damage spells, and +2 per die on all Acid spells, as opposed to just getting the +2 per die bump on Acid spells?
Light Sensitivity is a pretty minor drawback, and you do pick up Darkvision 60 feet and Survival as a class skill to offset that. I would trade in Primal, rather than Draconic, so you can keep Perception as a class skill.

I'm kind of on the fence about the Magical Lineage trait. If you take Fire Snake as your Lineage spell (as suggested by the build), you gain no benefit whatsoever until 10th level, when you get this spell. Yes, you'd be able to Intensify it for free, but you wouldn't gain any benefit from that until 14th(?) level, when you'd be CL 16 with the spell (am I missing something?). Varisian Tattoo makes up for the CL lost from the Sorcerer level (so that's a wash), and Spell Specialization adds +2 to CL, so you'd need to be 14th level to be CL 16 (okay a bit earlier with something else to boost CL, like an Orange Prism Ioun Stone). You'd also be able to Empower Fire Snake a bit earlier (at 12th level), and more often. I'm just not certain that's better than Magical Knack (Wizard), which would net you +1 CL with all of your Wizard spells from your 1st level of Wizard.

Lastly, I'm not sold on Thassilonian Specialist. Having abjuration and conjuration as prohibited schools is harsh. Extra spell slots are wonderful, but giving up these two schools would be too great a price for me. Yes, you can still use spell trigger and spell completion items for these schools (without resorting to Use Magic Device, thanks to your Sorcerer level), but as a low level caster, I like having Mage Armor and Shield to boost my defenses (not to mention Protection from X,Resist Energy, Dispel Magic, Grease, Glitterdust, Web, Dimension Door, and Summon Monster).

One point that's been made over and over in threads such as this one is that blaster wizards can do a whole lot more than blast, and fairly easily. Losing abjuration and conjuration limits the focus of the character pretty severely, though, at least in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a really solid build. I just think that for my play style, I'd change those few things. The character wouldn't be quite the blaster that you presented, but he'd be left with some broader options.

Oh, and I'd go Human over Elf, since Spell Penetration doesn't look like it'd be a huge issue, and the build could actually use the extra feat.

Thanks a lot for posting the build.


Heymitch, tbh the build was just something i threw together so bits of it can change quite easily.

the crossblooded bit is better being orc, as you said, theres no reason for it not to be since your only dipping sorc.

magical lineage is the best trait for this build since its free metamagic, now the spell you pick with it is entirely up to you and your table. if your not playing for long past 10 its a waste picking up fire snake, if your going to be high level for a long time fire snake is the break and butter spell. if i was only playing to 7 i'd take burning hands, if i was only playing to 12 i'd take fireball, if i was going 17 or higher i'd take fire snake.

i mentioned a lot of time thassilonian specialist isn't really required for the build but it does help with spell slots, since your going to be blasting a lot having more blasts is a blast. however just taking standard evocation admixture works just as well due to great spell specialisation anyway. one thing to think about when planning around thassilonian specialist is that your not giving up those schools, you just can't memorise them, because you are a sorc UMD is a class skill and you have a huge number of skill points as a wizard, also you can still use wands etc since you have levels of sorcerer who has no barred spells.

human/elf/he/ho/tiefling... it can really be anything you fancy, bear in mind human is just elf who has to take spell penetration, the extra feat is made up for with the elf ability. anything that adds to int is fine, i like the extra dex for rays when you need them and the small con loss doesn't really matter when your alpha striking.

anyway, the build can be changed quite a bit without really detracting from it. its more about the class/archtype combo and the feats, thats where the damage comes from.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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So, summing up the iconic build:

Level one Sorceror: Crossblooded Orc/Draconic, human, take varisian tattoo, take traits: magical Lineage (pick spell)

key feats: Intensify Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell.

Then take Wizard/Admixture for remaining levels. If you want to superspecialize outside of evoker, take Sin Magic, lose two schools, gain yet another spell slot.

End result: Crossblooded sorc orc/dragon bloodline 1, Wiz/19, Admixture Evocation specialist.
Note: Can use Sin Magic for more slots. Sorcerer level allows use of spell devices from denied schools (Conj/Abjuration).
Magical Lineage Trait allows Intensify for free on chosen spell.

Take Burning Hands or Magic Missile as a Specialized Spell early.

Add Greater Spell Specialization at level 7 or 9. Why? Memorize utility spells, trash them for your blaster spell.

Change your specialized spell up to Scorching Ray or Fireball when you can, depending on campaign.

At level 12 or higher, change it to Fire Snake.
Use Admixture specializing to change the element on the fly.

Use Fire Snake until higher levels. Why? High damage base and level 5 spell still leaves room for metamagic, esp Quicken.

Mechanics behind Choices: Orc blooded, Draconic: +1 to all damage spells, +1 to element of choice, retasked by Admixture.

Intensify Spell: Allows caster level +5 to apply to a specific spell. Burning hands goes up to 10d6+20. Magic Missile goes to 7d4+7. Fireball to 15d6, Fire Snake to 20d6+40.

Empower Spell: Increase dmg by 50%.
Quicken Spell: Hit enemy with two spells/rd.

Top End Damage: 30d6 +60 from Fire Snake, empowered, Intensified, average 165 dmg, save 1/2, level 7 slot.
Quicken w Rod for another hit, 9th level slot, 20d6 + 40dmg, avg 110.
= 275 blasting dmg in one round, save for 1/2.

Base level 5 spell slot is 20d6+40 dmg, 110 dmg.

Sound like a good summation?

==Aelryinth


Aelryinth wrote:

So, summing up the iconic build:

Level one Sorceror: Crossblooded Orc/Draconic, human, take varisian tattoo, take traits: magical Lineage (pick spell)

key feats: Intensify Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell.

Then take Wizard/Admixture for remaining levels. If you want to superspecialize outside of evoker, take Sin Magic, lose two schools, gain yet another spell slot.

End result: Crossblooded sorc orc/dragon bloodline 1, Wiz/19, Admixture Evocation specialist.
Note: Can use Sin Magic for more slots. Sorcerer level allows use of spell devices from denied schools (Conj/Abjuration).
Magical Lineage Trait allows Intensify for free on chosen spell.

Take Burning Hands or Magic Missile as a Specialized Spell early.

Add Greater Spell Specialization at level 7 or 9. Why? Memorize utility spells, trash them for your blaster spell.

Change your specialized spell up to Scorching Ray or Fireball when you can, depending on campaign.

At level 12 or higher, change it to Fire Snake.
Use Admixture specializing to change the element on the fly.

Use Fire Snake until higher levels. Why? High damage base and level 5 spell still leaves room for metamagic, esp Quicken.

Mechanics behind Choices: Orc blooded, Draconic: +1 to all damage spells, +1 to element of choice, retasked by Admixture.

Intensify Spell: Allows caster level +5 to apply to a specific spell. Burning hands goes up to 10d6+20. Magic Missile goes to 7d4+7. Fireball to 15d6, Fire Snake to 20d6+40.

Empower Spell: Increase dmg by 50%.
Quicken Spell: Hit enemy with two spells/rd.

Top End Damage: 30d6 +60 from Fire Snake, empowered, Intensified, average 165 dmg, save 1/2, level 7 slot.
Quicken w Rod for another hit, 9th level slot, 20d6 + 40dmg, avg 110.
= 275 blasting dmg in one round, save for 1/2.

Base level 5 spell slot is 20d6+40 dmg, 110 dmg.

Sound like a good summation?

==Aelryinth

Good summation however partially incorrect. Spell perfection makes quicken spell free so an intensified quickened firesnake is still only a 5th level spell.

Also empowered intensified fire snake via spell perfection is also only a 5th level spell.

If your going to use a quicken rod for one of them you might as well empower both use 2 5th level spell slots. 2x 30d6+69 averaging 330 before saves etc.

Mention spell perfection though cause for blasting its the best feat ever, your basicly always casting the same spell.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Ah right, forgot about that feat. Will adjust and edit.

==Aelryinth


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So Quicken Spell is free due to Spell Perfection, Empower Spell is free due to a metamagic rod, and Intensified Spell is free due to a trait.

Is that right?

And that would still leave two to four spell levels left for additional metamagic, depending your highest level spell slots.

Wow.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

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Paizo BLASTER CASTER build:
Goal: Pile on the hurty-hurt with direct damage spells. You don't need battlefield control if the enemy is dead.

Level 1: Take Sorceror: Crossblooded Orc/Draconic, Human, take Varisian Tattoo, take Trait: magical Lineage (pick spell), Reactionary (+2 Init)

Then take Wizard/Evoker -Admixture Specialist for your remaining levels. Why Admixture? Because you can change the element of any of your blasting spells on the fly to get around elemental resistances/immunities.

If you want to superspecialize outside of Evoker, take Sin Magic, lose two schools (Conjuration/Abjuration), gain yet another spell slot per level of raw power.

Key Feats: Intensify Spell, Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, Spell Perfection, Spell Penetration, Spell Specialization, Greater Spell Specialization.

End result: Crossblooded sorc orc/dragon bloodline 1, Wiz/19, Admixture Evocation specialist.
Note: Can use Sin Magic for more slots. Sorcerer level allows use of spell devices from denied schools (Conj/Abjuration).
Magical Lineage Trait allows Intensify for free on chosen spell.
Spell Perfection allows free Quicken at higher levels.

===============================================
Play Hints:

Take Burning Hands or Magic Missile as a Specialized Spell early. Burning Hands will deal more damage, Magic Missile has better long-term utility and keeps you out of danger. Every other level, you can change your specialized spell.

Add Greater Spell Specialization at level 7 or 9. Why? You can then memorize utility spells, and trash them for your blaster spell.

Change your specialized spell up to Scorching Ray or Fireball when you can, depending on campaign, typically at 5 or 7.

At level 12 or higher, change it to Fire Snake.
Use Admixture specializing to change the element on the fly.

Use Fire Snake until higher levels. Why? High damage base and level 5 spell still leaves room for metamagic, esp Quicken.

Mechanics behind Choices: Orc blooded, Draconic: +1 to all damage spells, +1 to element of choice, retasked by Admixture = +2 dmg/die on blasting spells.

FEATS
Intensify Spell: Increases caster level damage cap +5 to apply to a specific spell. Burning hands goes up to 10d4+20. Magic Missile goes to 7d4+7. Fireball to 15d6, Fire Snake to 20d6+40.

Empower Spell: Increase dmg by 50%.

Quicken Spell: Hit enemy with two spells/rd.

Spell Specialization: +2 to caster level with a specific spell. Helps bring the damage earlier and faster.

Varisian Tattoo: +1 to Caster level with a specific school (Evo). This buys off your sorc level.

Greater Spell Specialization: Sacrifice spells to power your chosen blaster spell. Means you can memorize utility spells freely.

Spell Perfection: Doubles fixed feat bonuses, apply one metamagic for free. An Empowered/Intensified spell with Magical Lineage is still its original spell slot. SPell Penetration doubles to +4. Varisian Tattoo to +2. Spell Specialization to +4. Effectively, you've got +10 on Spell Resistance rolls, and are casting at 5 levels higher then your own.

Top End Damage: 30d6 +60 from Fire Snake, empowered, Intensified, average 165 dmg, save 1/2, level 5 slot.
Quicken for another hit, 5th level slot, 20d6 + 40dmg, avg 165.
= 330 blasting dmg in one round, save for 1/2. If you've a Rod of Maximize, you can lift this to 215 base damage.

Base level 5 spell slot is 20d6+40 dmg, 165 dmg.

BY LEVEL

At level 1, your Burning Hands should be 2d4+4 (avg 9)

At level 2, its unchanged.

At level 3, Spell Specialization kicks in. 5d4+10 (22.5). This tops it unless you Intensify it.

At 4th, 6d4+12 (27), Intensified BH.

At 5th, Intensified BH, 7d4+14 (31.5).

At 6th, you can shift Spec to Scorching Ray. 2x 4d6+8 (44). Your Fireball is 5d6+10 as well, or 7d6+14 if specced.

At 7th, 6d6+12 fireball, or 8d6+18 if spec. An Empowered, Intensified Burning Hands, if still the spec spell, is 13.5d4+27 (about 60).

8th - Empowered Scorching Ray, 2 x 6d6+12. E/I BH is 15d6+30 (74, max)

9th - Intensified, Specialized Fireball is 11d6+22 (51).

10th - Firesnake. E/Spec Fireball is 15d6+30 (74). Emp Scorching Rays are 3 x 6d6+12, or 18d6+36 (99 dmg). You can now Quicken a Burning Hands or Magic Missile as kicker damage in a round, although you've few slots.

12th - E/I/Spec Fireball is 21d6+42 (115) damage. You can now Quicken a 12d6+24 Scorching Ray.

14th level - A Specialized Firesnake now exceeds/equals an intensified Fireball. Fireball caps at 22.5d6+ 45 (123~) damage. An Empowered Firesnake is 24d6+48 (132) damage. You can now Quicken a 10d6+20 Fireball. Intensified, Empowered Scorching Ray tops out at 24d6+48 (132 dmg)

15th level - Spell Perfection. You can now add a Meta for Free. This will be Quicken or Empower. Intensified might be free if Magical Lineage applies to it. Caster level buffs for spec spell exceed +5, so top out at 20d6 dmg at 15th level. You will miss Spell Resistance rolls against CR appropriate enemies on a 1.
Assuming Firesnake, you can now cast a Quickened Intensified Firesnake for 20d6+40 (110) damage out of a 5th level slot, and an Empowered Firesnake out of the same slot for 30d6+60 (165) damage. Using a 7th level slot, you can Empower both.

16th+ - Damage remains the same, higher level spell slots are open for use of other Metas or control spells.

Conceivably you could use Disintegrate to get a higher damage total, but the delay isn't worth it, and you'd lose the Varisian tattoo bonus.

If your DM allows you Twin Spell from 3.5, you can very, very easily clock in at 495 raw dmg/round. IF he allows Arcane Thesis, god help your enemies.

==+Aelryinth


Why is burning hands calculated using d6s instead of d4s? But other than that, nice build. I would never use it, nor would I allow it, unless the guy wanted to play a 1 caster vs the world scenario.


Looks like Paizo fixed blasting pretty well...

Even if you don't specialize as much as this build does, just a few of these feats can make blasting fun again. XD

Good work! Like you said, dead enemies don't get to do anything.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Ravingdork wrote:

So Quicken Spell is free due to Spell Perfection, Empower Spell is free due to a metamagic rod, and Intensified Spell is free due to a trait.

Is that right?

And that would still leave two to four spell levels left for additional metamagic, depending your highest level spell slots.

Wow.

Actually, you'd take Empower as your own feat, and use a Maximize Rod. Top average dmg/spell would be 215.

And yeah, you'd never use any 8th or 9th level slots for this.

Note that your Meteor Swarm is doing 32d6+64, or 174 damage, if directed at one foe, and if Maximized would be 256 dmg.

==Aelryinth

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 16

Tels wrote:
Why is burning hands calculated using d6s instead of d4s? But other than that, nice build. I would never use it, nor would I allow it, unless the guy wanted to play a 1 caster vs the world scenario.

Cause I got carried away with d6's? will adjust, thx for the catch.

==Aelryinth


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Aelryinth, I do not believe Spell Perfection doubles the metamagic reduction of Magical Lineage. It is a trait, not a feat; nor does it grant a set numerical bonus (such as "+1 bonus" or "+3 luck bonus").


And of course an enemy who knows that you mostly use a single spell will have his friendly local cleric cast Spell Immunity on him for that spell.

One-trick ponies are fun to build, but a pain to play.

:)

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