Aravan's page

Downloaded it last night and immediately purchased the $25 unlock all adventures/characters. Initially there was an issue with my purchases and the adventures/characters were not unlocked, but that was fixed after an hour or two and me closing the app and restarting it. Since then I have had no issues at all, though my Ipad (old ipad2) does get very hot when running the game.

I have no real complaints at this point. The dialog and graphics are good for a mobile game and the gameplay is smooth. I do wish I could earn gold while offline as I do use my ipad from time to time when I don't have a mobile connection, however since I purchased the full game this is a minor complaint. I am very happy with this purchase, I think they did a great job with the port to mobile and I think it was quite worth the $25.

I suppose now would be a perfect time to follow up to William Bryan's post, as everything is still fresh in my mind. I am a player (one of the two original players from the Kingmaker campaign)in Bill's group and we just finished up the final fight in The Empty Throne. I am not going to get into spoilers as this is more of a overall review than detailed points about specific encounters.

Overall this AP was spectacular and it has made for some of the most fun RPing I have had in a long long time. It is somewhat of a railroad but frankly in my opinion this isn't a bad thing. I enjoy well done railroads and all of the players bought into the railroad. We all wanted to play a story where we would be on an epic journey to save a country see our friend put onto the throne as the rightful ruler and to see how our original character concepts evolve during the grueling trek. With this in mind we all created characters who fit within the framework of the story and then brought this amazing journey to life. The real strength of this AP was in the role-playing. We didn't find the caravan system very fun, it ranged from tedious to frustrating and by the second book we had basically thrown it out. I think there was some sort of friendship system for the NPC's but we just role-played instead.

Brinewall Legacy
Great book, wonderful introduction to the AP with a lot of flavor. It gave me a sense of anticipation as this motley band of friends set off on an unknown adventure.

Night of Frozen Shadows
I loved the first 3/4 of the book. Some very cinematic fights (we lost our first PC) and interesting RP. This is when our DM first started to create a sense of paranoia in the players. We suddenly realized there were people out to get us and forces more powerful than we could suspect were working against us. Did not enjoy the dungeon crawl at the end of the book, it was too long and tedious. Also this book was our first introduction to the dreaded:

Hungry Storm
My least favorite book. It just seemed disconnected from the rest of the story and I am not sure if I ever really figured out what was going on. Definitely creepy but after a while I just got tired of being cold and miserable.

Forest of Spirits
In some ways this became my favorite book. The first half had wonderful role-playing opportunities in both the city and then the forest. While the second half was an epic dungeon crawl that was far better done than most. Various traumatic events happened during the dungeon crawl that made for amazing role-playing (everyone's favorite PC Rupert died)

Tide of Honor & The Empty Throne
Suitable ending to the game, there were some amazing fights and locations and lots of role-playing. We truly realized how foreign this world was to ours and how frustrating that could be. I will say that high level fights are not my favorite and by the end of the game I was very thankful that Bill skipped all nonessential fights. High level casters just make things go on forever (as the party wizard I am basically the pot calling the kettle black) and not in a good way. Be as it may the final few fights were suitably epic and there were plenty of high fives going around when we finally defeated the Jade Reagent.

Overall many of the complaints I have read about the AP, were its strongest points during our game. We also introduced three new players to Pathfinder and I think it was a perfect AP for that. The storyline was epic and heroic. The theme of a group of friends traveling to an unfamiliar country to restore a long lost queen to her rightful throne is one that numerous fantasy novels have paralleled. I am both sad to see it end and very happy to have finished such a wonderful game.

Well to respond to the original point, which was. 'Why should I buy/use a CLW wand when there is a cleric in the party?' The biggest reason for a CLW wand is to heal everyone to full after each battle and generally one should avoid using it during combat. When playing a non cleric/oracle I would far prefer using charges off my own CLW wand to heal up and making sure that the cleric/oracle keeps their spell slots for when they are needed, in combat. The cost of a few charges from a CLW wand is minor compared to the potential benefit of a key Protection from Evil, Comprehend Languages, or timely Command spell. I would generally prefer our cleric to save their channel energy for combat as well, it is far more useful after the entire party gets hit by a surprise fireball from an invisible BBEG than to save me the 2PP every 3-4 levels I spend on a CLW wand. Yes sometimes the cleric has unspent resources at the end of the adventure and I wasted a few charges on my wand but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make every single game for the comfort of knowing my cleric/oracle still has the majority of their arsenal ready when we confront a tough fight later in the adventure.

The second claim I heard was that a cleric's job is to heal since there is no way they can ever be as good at damage/whatever as any other class. First off this is incorrect, a good optimizer can make a cleric who can excel at damage, battlefield control, buffs/debuffs, and generally filling all sorts of roles. Secondly the most important thing for the player sitting across from me to do is to help create an atmosphere of enjoyment for everyone (players and DM). I don't require the people I play with to always make the most optimal choices with their completely optimized characters, I ask of them to try hard, take the game seriously while remembering it is a game and we are all here to have fun. Finally I assume the person next to me knows their character better than I do, so while I could have yelled at this 4th level cleric I played with to heal me for 2d8+3 instead I let him play his character and he cast burning hands on the four thugs who were attacking me for 25 points of damage each. Pretty sure that was more effective than any 4th level fighter/rogue/archer in terms of damage done. Of course damage done isn't a measuring stick I use when determining the value of a PC. Did you help us complete the mission, and did you add enjoyment to the game are the only measuring sticks I use.

Wow, I wonder if I am playing a different game than some of the posters on this thread. As someone who spends hours optimizing and coming up with a backstory for each character I play 3.5 and by extension Pathfinder is one of my favorite systems. One of the reason I like PF so much is because it is so rules heavy and with so many options, however this makes it very easy to have a huge imbalance between different characters power levels. If someone simply chooses options based on what they think is appropriate there is a good chance they will have a character that simply can’t stand up to appropriate CR challenges. If I was to rate PF on a 1-10 scale with 1 being super roleplaying, and 10 being all rollplaying I would probably rate it at a 7-8.

The biggest problem is there are so many different options and rules, and with at least a third of the options being trap options the game is not an easy game to teach a new player and even experienced players make mistakes of a somewhat regular basis. It is a very easy to have widely disparate power levels at the same table which creates difficulties for the GM and regardless of how well someone roleplays they can easily be overshadowed by someone who is a much better optimizer. With all of those problems it is still a wonderful system for creating very detailed characters and a system I love, but it is a system that rewards optimizers far more than most systems and definitely more than 4E.

In the end I don't think either PF or 4E encourages roleplay or rollplay, that is mostly determined by the individual, and to a lesser extent the type of gamers he/she plays with. Finally all of these labels are overshadowed by this basic question, 'Is the person fun to hang out and game with.' If the answer is yes then system, gamer type, or whatever doesn't matter lets sit down roll some dice and talk in funny voices.

Now I understand that I am derailing what the current thread has become but I would like to respond to the original poster and his concerns with Pathfinder. Possibly much/all of this was brought up in the previous thread but to be frank I am too lazy/disinterested in sifting through the many pages. I agree with some of Shallowsoul’s points, mainly the fact that magic items have largely become static numeric bonuses that are neither fun nor interesting. As a player and as a DM I want the entire group to think Awwww, sweet! when a magic item is gained and generic cloaks of resistance +x and shopping at a magic mart does neither. However after playing and DMing several APs (our group pretty much only plays APs) I have come to the conclusion that static magic item bonuses are built into the system. Frankly without cloaks of resistance the DC on saves is too high for players to have a reasonable chance of making, without rings of protection and magic armor even mooks will have a far greater than 50% chance of hitting front line fighters, and without stat boosting items a 15 point buy is too limited for any character that needs more than one primary stat to function.

Myself and the other DM for our group talked about it and realized that to play Pathfinder without players having a ton of magic items we would either have to modify every single creature in an AP to balance it with the lower overall stats the party or we would have simply incorporate static enhancement bonuses into character leveling. Now I can’t take much credit for this idea as our system was based on a very nice system that someone posted on the house rules section of the forum. The basics are that on even levels players get several stats to increase while on odd levels they get to add enhancement bonuses to weapon damage/attack, armor, deflection, saves and natural armor. We have now gotten to 12th level in our Jade Regent campaign and it has more or less worked. I admit I think there are some improvements that could probably be made and at times it doesn’t play as nice with specific class abilities as I would like but I certainly think it works just as well as the standard Christmas tree effect that so many seem to complain about. Players have far fewer magic items but the items are actually interesting ones. Since there is no magic item economy when players find magic items they actually try to figure out cool ways to use them instead of selling them for half value so they can buy a better cloak of resistance.

If Pathfinder ever went to a second edition I would much prefer a system similar to this where there were no magic items of +1 to +5 but instead all magic items did something fun and cool. Overall I like the Pathfinder rules and they work better for me than any other system I have come across. When they don’t work our group sits down talks about how something does or doesn’t work and then comes to a consensus on wither or not to make a houserule.

Well a few things to remember about enlarge person. First it is a full round casting time so that should give the enemies some opportunity to maneuver to advantageous positions or interrupt the casting. Secondly if it is being cast by a cleric I assume that it is a domain spell. Remember that domain spells if not normally on the cleric list may only be prepared in the domain slot so you should only have to deal with one enlarge person per day (there are ways to use feats to get around this).

Secondly remember there are a lot of enemies who really can't be tripped or are very difficult to trip. Each leg past 2 adds an additional +2 to CMD, anything that is flying is untrippable, and so on.

I feel like the goalposts are constantly moving in this particular conversation. At first the question was asked what is a good level 1 build to introduce new players to PFS and after looking at the one trick pony optimized to either be amazing in combat or useless depending on the type of creatures fought I spoke up and disagreed and said a more generalist PC for a new player was a better idea one that allowed them flexibility in both combat and non-combat situations. That was shot down because I was told that no these new players were going to be playing with other players using level 2 characters who were heavily optimized. Jiggy then posted some great builds to introduce a new player to PFS, builds that once again let the new player feel their way around how combat and noncombat interactions worked. These builds were dismissed as being vanilla and useless when played in a party of level 3 experienced players who were highly optimized for combat. The fact of the matter if you are putting your new PFS players in that situation there is nothing that will let them feel as if they are contributing to the combat. Either the table will be playing down at 1-2 and the combats will be 1 round jokes which aren't any fun or they will be playing up at 4-5 and the combats will be so tough that a 1st level player will be hard pressed to live let alone contribute.

Once again I agree that the pregens are somewhat terrible and possibly not the best introduction to PFS. What is a good introduction is a well designed character that has functionality in combat and out of combat. A character that has options for ranged and melee when in combat, a character that has opportunities for creativity. I make sure a new player has a flask of alchemists fire, a rope, some light and a few gold left over so that after they hear their mission they can purchase something that they think might be useful. I focus on spells with multiple uses like grease, I make sure they have a cantrip that they can use every round of combat. Sure they may be a bit vanilla to someone who has played PFS for years and owns all the books but for a new player vanilla isn't a bad thing, it is a solid foundation for them to build on.

Jiggy great characters and solid designs for new players to experience PFS with. Now I know every area is different but at least in our area people have a ton of builds they haven't been able to play so when offered the opportunity to start a new level one to run a mod with a new player or two they are happy to do so.

With a blank character sheet and my ipad I can create a level 1 character in less than 10 minutes, probably closer to 5 if needed which is more than enough time as there is often 15 minutes spent trying to get everything in order. Once again I figure out the bare bones of what they want to play and create a combat effective character of that style. I prioritize being effective in combat, with some useful skills that will give the player some choices out of combat also. I am not opposed to giving a new player an effective character in fact I support that. Where I disagree with the rest of you is in the opinion that a one trick pony is both fun and effective for a new player.

For a completely different take on this subject there is the build I always help new players create. I call it 'Talk to the person and figure out what sort of cool idea they have.' After that I help them create a character that matches up with their idea and is effective in combat and has some out of combat skills. I mean having played numerous lvl 1-2 mods they aren't exactly killer so any character who is mildly optimized will run roughshod over the mod. Another key is to give the player some useful out of combat skills for several reasons. First combat is only about half the game and it sucks for the new player to be bored during the other half of the game. Second it also frustrating at low levels to fail at faction missions so I do everything in my power to make sure that new players have a few skills that might help them not fail. Finally I reassure them that after playing three mods they will have an opportunity to make changes to their character once they know what does and doesn't work in PFS.

I don't think a one trick pony build using mechanics from multiple books is the best way to introduce someone to PFS. I think a new player is far more likely to stick around if you help them build a character they can relate with and want to play. Also people are more likely to stick around if they have fun, and frankly a party of 6 encounter ending PC's who roll initiative to see who can end the encounter first isn't very fun.

Perfect example of this is I just helped build a new player a Samurai. Now I know this isn't the most optimal class, but it was what he wanted to play. He wanted to be able to talk to people both in a convincing and threatening manner, so having a choice to put int/wis/cha at 12, I picked cha even though this wasn't optimal. Finally he wanted to be able to do that ever so iconic move of intimidating people with his skill at blades so I gave him weapon focus katana and dazzling display. Once again not optimal, but I wasn't really worried because he had an 18 strength, chainmail, and a katana that he could wield two handed. He was going to be just fine in a level one mod. Maybe after a couple of mods he will decide that dazzling display isn't that effective and switch it out, or maybe he will like it because of the style factor. Either way he is very excited about his character and eager to play, and I don't think he would have been if I had created a power build for him to play without his input.

Aravan wrote:

TOZ wrote:

That's good.

Except that it isn't good at all, assuming you were responding to Cydeth.

Yes it is. It is better that Cydeth NOT play PFS it is not something s/he would like. It is better that every player in the Society enjoys himself than for some to not be enjoying themselves. Not everyone has to be a part of it.

I am of the opinion that some of the posts in this thread can be taken as heavy handed by people who read them. Such a perception of PFS does not match with the reality that I have experienced. In fact I have played with a lot amazing GM's who do their best to create a great gaming experience for the players. Our VC is a great guy who tries to make sure all are included and have fun. I don't want someone to read this thread and make a decision on whether or not PFS is for them based on a few statements made on a message board.

Now PFS is not everyone, I agree with you on that. I have known players who didn't enjoy their experience and I have played with people who I didn't enjoy playing with. I can accept this because I understand that organized play allows anyone to join which at time creates its own set of problems. However I don't think we should risk turning people away who might be great PFS players or GMs by posting blanket statements claiming that to even play in a game that someone GMs you must have a unquestionably legitimate copy of source that you used to build your character.

I for one spent some time reading the PFS boards before I decided to take the jump and go to a local session. It was with some trepidation that I went to my first PFS session mostly due to some preconceptions about organized play, but in part because of some harsh posts on message boards. What and how we say things is important, and driving potential players away because of a heated message board topic is self destructive.

That's good.

Except that it isn't good at all, assuming you were responding to Cydeth. Pathfinder Society is a lot of fun and I have met an amazing group of people in my home town because of it. I also traveled to PaizoCon and had an amazing time, largely due to PFS. Having read this thread I can understand why someone who had never played PFS might come away with a negative opinion of it. There were statements to the effect of 'I would take the photocopy from them and tell them they would have to play a pregen or not play at all.' At least half the posts on this thread have a very draconian feel to them, making PFS sound like an organization with strict rules, severe punishments and place where we like to publicly shame those who intentionally or accidentally break a rule. Yet my experiences both in my home city and at PaizoCon tell me that nothing could be further from the truth.

In my opinion as players, and as GM's (I haven't GMed yet but am scheduled to in the next week or two) we shouldn't be the judge/jury/executioner but rather we should be fellow gamers enjoying a hobby with other gamers. Now I am not so naive as to believe there aren't any cheaters, or people who will try to steal Paizo content but I believe they are the exception rather than the rule.

I also think when you create rules and policies to prevent or expose cheaters but those rules also harm or turn away legitimate players who are trying to enjoy PFS you have in the end done more damage than a cheating player ever could have. Talk to players, explain that they should buy a copy of whatever product they are using but if they have a way of showing you the rules, even if you aren't sure how legitimate it is give them the benefit of the doubt and let everyone have fun at the table.

I just want to point out that playing a 4 player table now versus playing a 4 player table in Season 2 is the same exact challenge. It's only the big groups that have a higher CR to deal with.

And this is really the crux of the problem, at least in my experience tables averaged 6 players in the previous seasons but the combats were balanced for 4 players. Generally if you had 3 people who knew what they were doing you could still complete the mod even if the other 3 players did little to nothing productive. I played in more than a handful of mods where half the team was carried by the other half which was frustrating but didn't make the mod impossible. In the two season 4 mods I have played I never found the fights unfair, I just found them more complex with more variables that players needed to counter which is an improvement unless half of your table, for whatever reason are unable to meaningfully contribute to combat.

The truth is even now you don't need hyper optimized characters to complete season 4 mods. In fact if you have such optimized characters you will still roll though the mods with little effort. All you need is players who understand how the Pathfinder system works and players who try to cover a few different common situations. If someone brings a Paladin/Druid/Wizard to a table with me I might raise an eyebrow but I won't dismiss the character out of hand there are ways to make almost any concept useful to the group without sacrificing the concept, though some might require more consumables than others. I also welcome new players the low level mods are still aren't insanely deadly and are good places to learn how to play Pathfinder. In combat I might help out by explaining what sort of options they have and what might happen with success or failure when attempting those things and then let them decide what they want to do.

The problem, at least in my opinion is that since season 0-3 mods were designed for 4 players there are a number of people who have high level characters who haven't had to carry their own weight because other players with effective characters carried them in 6 player tables. Now not only are their characters more likely to die in season 4 mods, that is also likely to lead to the deaths of other Pathfinders in their group. It really becomes a problem in situations like cons when you are often sat at a table where you may not know any of the other players. PaizoCon this year was the first con I have ever played PFS at and I was lucky to have amazing tables but I heard stories from friends who went with me about some less than great tables.

I love the raised difficulty of season 4 mods however I can see the difficulty causing problems in situations where you don't get to choose who you are playing with. For various reasons not every person who plays PFS is someone I would choose to game with but sometimes I get to game with them anyway and in those situations added difficulty will make a frustrating situation miserable.

First off I am a player in a JR campaign and we are most of the way through the 3rd book so I have some experience with the NPC's of this adventure. Our gaming style is a fairly even mix of role-playing and tactical combat. As far as I know our DM threw out the caravan and the relationship rule systems, the caravan rules because they are clunky and not fun, and the relationships because they are better solved via roleplaying. I vaguely remember something about boons for relationships and various mechanical benefits but those have also been thrown out. Finally (and I belive this is very important) we all created characters that for whatever reason had strong personal attachments to the various NPC's.

So far the way I view this campaign is the caravan feels like a mobile town that follows us around. The NPC's are townsfolk and the caravan is our home town. We talk to them, ask their advice, rescue them, complete requests, and build relationships with them. In our group Ameiko plays a role that might be fulfilled by the baroness of a local keep in another game. While she is in charge, we make the actual decisions in the field and because we are the ones who have the most hands on experience with the problems we are facing often times she goes with our strategic decisions as well. Our DM does a good job in making sure the NPC's never overshadow the PC's but also making them strong personalities in their own right. My guess is that he isn't running them exactly as written in the book but instead running them so that their personalities compliment the individual PC's a little better.

I am enjoying this campaign so far, it feels like an epic quest with the odds stacked against us. The caravan and its NPC's are the glue that holds this whole story together, and without them it is just a group of PC's making some really poor choices. I am pretty sure it is a strict railroad, and yet because we all created PC's who wanted to ride this train, it doesn't seem that forced.

Lastly I try to avoid JR threads as I don't really want spoilers so I probably won't read this one however with the plethora of recent posts about the JR NPC's and with most of them seeming to be very negative I just wanted to bring a different perspective. The AP is good, the NPC's in the AP are well done, but like any major figures in an adventure they have to be treated very carefully.

Any other working professional having issues with how this is being handled? This is my first year to Pazio Con, bought tickets and banquet back in October. Talk about super excited!!! Spend hours going over the lotto events, just to find out it was all wasted and would have been better just to randomly click on events, and focus on getting a PFS character up in levels. Then they hold the open events and remaining sign up at 2PM PST! So those of us who have to work until 5, home at 6 has no chance of sign up vs those who can do it at work or already home. Why isn't this done on a Saturday? And I know what you are thinking, i'm typing this up at at 3 what WTF. Well I am hoping I don't get busted for doing this at work and felt it's worth taking the chance even though its stressing me out. VERY VERY VERY disappointed in this whole process. Close to selling ticket and banquet and boycotting Paizoco!!!!!

Honestly I am not particularly worried at this point. While I am very excited to be going to my first Paizocon and a little nervous that I won't the games I really wanted to get into I am not that worried. Having dealt with their customer service before with an issue on an order, and having seen them deal with problems my friends have had, I have every confidence that they will get this right. In my experience not only do they make sure things work out with the best possible resolution they also communicate very well and don't leave you in the dark for too long.

Now I don't want to come off like a fanboy, (though I really kinda am) I am just suggesting a little patience is in order. Regardless Paizocon is going to be awesome and I am going to have a ton of fun!

I think it would be a huge challenge for you to GM this module in such a way that both the players and you as a DM will have fun. You have several things working against the module, first the group is large, second they have far higher stats than the encounters assume, and finally it is a very melee heavy group.

The high number of players and high secondary stats will make the non-combat encounters fairly trivial, while having 4 highly optimized melee fighters with close to max physical stats will destroy the combat encounters. Overall the enemies in this module have a very low AC and average HP's at best, but this is mitigated by environmental penalties. You will have to increase the number of enemies by at least 50% and probably increase all of their stats by 2-4 points just to threaten the PC's. However At this point a couple of bad rounds of rolling or good rolls by you could do a number on them.

The best bet for a 6 man party with players who optimize well is to scale the stats back down to 15 and then let everyone know that there are plenty of social/skill challenges in the game as a hint/warning that not everyone should stat dump their int/charisma in order to pump their physical stats. At this point I would run the module as written and then slowly add an extra minion to various encounters if you feel they are having too easy of a time.

What I am trying to say is that I have found it insanely difficult to balance low level play with players who have much higher than average stats. Combats feel like rocket tag and either the players are never challenged or things go wrong the other way and I have potential TPK's on my hand.

I have a PFS lore oracle with sidestep secret and I started with a 7 dex and 20 charisma. Since it was a 20 point buy I was able to get 14 con and 12 int, str and wis both at 10 of course. I did take Noble Scion so most of the effects of having a 7 dexterity were negated though there are some problems. The grease spell generally renders me immobile, while I make the initial save to avoid falling down the DC 10 acrobatics check to move is often too risky to attempt. What I did to help mitigate difficult dex based skill checks was take the Seer archetype which gives me natural divination. Of course this meant I had to take the extra mystery feat for sidestep secret and I had to be human for the bonus feat.

At times I was less than amazing at low level and I spent a lot of time casting guidance. However the high DC's on my spells and having an extra 1st level spell more than made up for any deficiency in physical stats. As long as you don't mind being a pure spellcaster and having limited options before level 4 or so it is a very effective way to play an oracle. I usually have the best AC in the group, good saves and great initiative.

There are a few things about the feat 'Spell Specialization' that I want to reiterate because I think a lot of people are overlooking them. First in the aforementioned build he gains 'Spell Specialization' at 3rd level and because you can change the spell you are specialized in every other time you level up you initially specialize in Burning Hands so from 3rd level on you are +3 caster levels over your actual wizard level for casting whatever your favorite blasting spell is.

Secondly 'Spell Specialization' opens up the feat 'Greater Spell Specialization' which is a godsend for a blaster. This allows you spontaneously cast your specialized spell just like a cleric does with cure spells. Suddenly you memorize only utility/defensive/crowd control/buff spells and then spontaneous turn them into the right blast for the right moment, and of course you can modify them with metamagic but when you do they take a full round action. Admittedly you have to be a level 9 wizard to do this but it still gives you much of the advantages of a blasting sorcerer while also having the advantages of an admixture specialized wizard. For your fixed evocation slots you can memorize the evocation battlefield control spells like Wall of Force or Resilient Sphere, versatility and blasty all in one neat package.

That's because your build is effective at level 16 and requires incredible amounts of specialization.

It has to GET to level 16.

So, BY LEVEL, denote what he's using for blasting spells and what their damage is.

Denote how often he can do it. That wizard can throw one or two of those a day. That's not a blaster...that's a nova technique.

And it's dependent on a DM okaying Magical Lineage for a 5th level spell? There's RAW and there's believable. Spell specialization for a spell you can't even cast? I don't think so. Swap that and Improved Init, please.

And your character dropped everything into that build...even spell focus x 4. It gets the saves up, but, like, wow.

It looks like without Spell Perfection, you're literally doing half damage...you lose caster levels AND Empower is no longer free. I guess SPell Perfection makes the build.

I don't think you realize how well his build synergies throughout the low levels. The feat Spell Specialization allows you to change the spell you are specialized in every time you gain an even level in your spellcasting class. So as was mentioned you start with burning hands, then move to fireball and finally at high levels get your bread and butter with fire snake. Basically the only thing he takes at low levels that doesn't help him be more effective at that level is a single trait, frankly I don't see how any DM would have a problem with that.

Basically you have a good aoe attack spell that does lvl + 2 dice worth of damage plus the extra damage from 2 sorc schools and powerful evocations. Add to that scribe scroll feat for extra versatility and you have a blaster wizard that is fun and effective at all levels.

Personally it is a little too focused for my tastes I probably would drop one or two of the school focus's for some crafting feats or other specific feats for the campaign. I happen to play a blaster wizard in my current campaign and while probably not as optimal as a save or suck wizard it is a lot of fun, and surprisingly versatile. Far more flexible than if I had played a sorc.

Edit: Less snarky :)

The good news is Paizo was able to get WizKids to make sure a case contained all pieces in the set and early reports are this has happened.

First off I sadly can tell you that this is not the case(no pun intended). I purchased a full case(4 bricks) and I after opening the entire thing I ended up not getting the halfling/dire rat combo set.

Regardless on to the good and the bad:

Good:
There are some very nice minis in this set, and overall I will love being able to put them out on the table. Most of the paint jobs will look very good when placed on the table during actual play. The paizo style goblin miniatures made me smile. The Ettin is a frightening miniature and will command a ton of attention when on the table. All the miniatures in my case came undamaged. Finally I can't say enough about some of the miniatures, Lich, Succubus, Specter, Venomous Snake, and Lizardfolk Champion are some of the real winners.

Bad:

The distribution, as mentioned before there was one miniature that I didn't get. I got 29 Rares, 19 uncommons, and 28 commons. Perhaps there are more rares because of the guaranteed 3 large figurines in each brick. While the commons seemed distributed well (I got 2-3 copies of each one except 4 wolves, and 1 zombie) the uncommons were distributed very poorly. Half of them I had 3 of and the rest I had 1 copy of. Finally there were a few sculpts that were absolute stinkers. The troll, while a decent sculpt is about half the size it should be. It almost looks like a medium figure on a large base. While most of the monster minis were very good some of the PC/NPC minis were pretty mediocre. I did not like the Human Druid, Elf Wizard(the ears look more like horns), or the Human Ranger. To make matters worse the faces were poorly painted and while look OK from afar they are laughable up close. Finally the Mummy and Zombie were uninspired, both needed a little more bulk and evilness to really make them work.

While that seems like a lot of negatives, the awesomeness of the positives far overwhelms any flaws. I will definitely buy another case when a new set is released. I am very happy with my miniatures and hopefully the flaws can be smoothed out.

I would also think that a 2 level dip into Alchemist(Vivisectionist) would be a more effective choice than a sorcerer.

Of the top of my head a barbarian who specializes in tripping needs a 13 Int anyway to get Improved Trip, and Enlarge Person goes great with tripping. Two levels of alchemist gets you enlarge person in potion form 3 times a day, 1d6 sneak attack, Mutagen for Nat AC and +4 to a stat, and a discovery. Initial thought would be Preserve Organs for a 25% avoidance against crts, this could be improved by spending a feat on extra discovery at a later point if you have a free feat.

And heck it wouldn't be too hard to figure out a fun roleplaying concept behind a wild man who creates his own disgusting brews. Though I still think that the battle oracle might be a slightly better dip to pick up enlarge person.

To answer the original question like many others, I would call him a suboptimal min/maxer.

I would like to second that, I enjoy everyone's char so far and Tyrrol's peculiarities are fun.

On a different note, I am not sure I would want to play a class with an animal companion again in a PbP, seeing that series of attacks I just posted, it looks messy. In the future assuming both Wilam and Sora are getting full attacks is the a better way to post it that would make it easier for you to read?

Me and my group also play kingmaker nowdays and we also are at 5th level, the thing is our TWF rogue managed to do only a couple of full round attacks in the entire game so far(not that he really tries to go for full round attacks), on the other hand i (switch hitter ranger) managed to use cleave only 2 times thus far (only two times the enemies were adjacent) and also our summoner doesn't have picked up haste yet, maybe those are the reasons that i can't prove my point about the rogue.

Of course everyone's combat experience will differ based on numerous variables. Our group is larger than normal(5-6 players per game session), and is very melee focused. Both my rogue and the 2handed falchion fighter are both highly optimized for melee combat and we work very well together and enter every combat with the plan to create flanking opportunities as soon as possible. Our summoner casts haste as his first action every major combat (As a second level spell for summoners it is too good not to have), and often I will delay till after the haste goes off in order to use the extra movement to put myself in the best position for a second turn 5 foot step into a flanking position. Even with all of that and getting full attacks once or twice per combat the fighter does more damage and has more options during combat.

Lets face it the 2 weapon sneak attack rogue is a one trick pony, that while good, can be faced with many situations where his trick is unusable. The fighter can do his thing against just about everything assuming he can reach it.

In no way does the rouge outshine the fighter in melee combat. If I may, let me use an actual game comparison of the two classes. In my weekly Kingmaker campaign I play a level 5 TWF rogue, and another in our group plays a 2handed falchion fighter. An average combat goes something like this:

Round 1:
Fighter power-attack charges for 2d4+17
Rogue moves into position but is unable to get a flanking attack, attacks for 1d6+1
Summoner casts haste.

Round 2:
Fighter 5 foot steps to create flanking and power attacks twice for 2d4+17 each and hits ~1.5 times.
Rogue Sneak attacks 3 times for 4d6+1 each and hits ~1.7 times. (The times hit is guesswork based on half a dozen combats we have participated in recently.)
Repeat until bad guy is dead.

However there are a few important notes, most intelligent and some semi intelligent will not simply stand there letting a rogue stab them in the back. A creature that repositions so that I have to make a move action to get a sneak attack significantly decreases my damage. The fighter has +5 more to hit on his first attack (he has the feat that allows him to ignore the to hit penalty on the first power attack), and +3 more to hit on the second attack. These bonuses will only go up as we advance to higher levels. The fighter also has 30% more hp’s. While the rogue gets a lot more skills, and evasion. Finally the rogue crits on a 19-20 and does an extra 1d6+1 damage, while the fighter crits on a 18-20 and does an extra 2d4+17, this is huge. While it looks at first glance the rogue has the higher spike damage potential due to 3 sneak attacks, the fighter hitting twice and confirming 1 crit will blow the rogue’s damage out of the water.

In summation as a rogue I feel useful in combat but on average I do less damage, have less durability and am forced to put myself in a more vulnerable position in order to do a little less damage than our fighter. However I make up for this in having more options out of combat. At least in our group a 2WFighting rogue is useful, but in no way shape or form outshines the fighter in combat.

I have been away from comics for several years now, but I was always a fan of the superhero genre and Marvel more so than DC. A question for those of you that read the current Marvel comics which ones would you recommend me picking up?

The last time I was actively reading comics was before the Civil War event, though I do know the basics of the Civil War storyline. Generally I was a fan of the X-Men, and Spiderman. Though a lot of the X titles I found unreadable. I liked the work that Straczynski did with Spiderman, and I really liked his stand alone series Rising Stars(not Marvel I know). X titles, I likes X-Factor(though I've only read the first 6 or so issues), I liked Exiles at least the first couple of dozen issues. My feeling on the Avengers are fairly neutral, and usually the Hulk or Fantastic 4 annoy the heck out of me.

Basically I would like your suggestions of a few good titles to read that will let me follow the Marvel storyline without being bogged down with all the junk they tend to publish.

Sorry bout my lack of posts, lucky I am playing a somewhat strong but silent type. However I really do intend to post more and now that the first week of school is over without too many problems things should start settling back into their normal routine and I should be able to post at least once a day.

thats meta gaming, as the PCs set out they would have no idea they will have much to anything to do with jungles...

I could see a certain PC from the area had made a ranger or something, seeing as there are alot of jungles near by....

but the PCs dont set out intending to have jungle adventures and most of the starting campaign traits done have much to say about jungle origins for characters.

Eh when I GM I want a certain amount of metagaming during character construction when running something like an AP. I am planning on telling my players that I am planning on running a campaign set in a jungle setting with some Indiana Jones type ancient temple exploring involved, rather than spring the game on them with little or no explanation as to what sort of gaming experience they are about to face.

I don't want a player to create a charisma based rogue who specializes in dealing with cities unless they realize they are going to be playing a fish out of water type character. That might be fun for some and could turn into a great roleplaying opportunity but I always want my players to go into a long term themed game like an adventure path with at least a foundation to build a character concept that would be fun for them to play.

I am around more or less and will check the thread at least once a day, and will post when new stuff happens. Hope it continues I like the characters so far.

His music is Home made KAZOKU's "Syounen Heart".
It is a theme song of the animation "Eureka Seven".
My favorite.

Two things, first I must say the video was great, I enjoyed it and am planning on sharing the link with my entire gaming group I think they will get a kick out of it as well.

Second I knew I recognized that music, not only does Orlin have good taste in music he has good taste in anime. I don't watch much anime but Eureka Seven really pulled me in, it was a great story.

Mostly I just wanted to thank you for sharing your hard work with us and I can't wait to see the first session.

Oh as a note if you need to get in touch with me my email is:

scott_bro at hotmail dot com

Having been in a very similar situation about a year ago (I was a player not the DM) where it was an entire group who was new to pathfinder though we had played some 3.0 I have one suggestion. If I were you I would avoid using the Hallows last Hope, and Crown of the Kobold King series of modules. Not that they aren't good modules, they are, however at least in our experience they were not very good modules for a new GM.

The problem is you are using the pathfinder rulebook and the pathfinder bestiary and that specific series of modules was written for the 3.5 rule set not the pathfinder rule set. While the rules are very similar, we found ourselves in a situation where the DM kept having to look things up and there was some confusion due some of what was written in the module not being correct by pathfinder rules. If you feel comfortable converting a 3.5 module to pathfinder rules, I would say go for it but it will take a little bit more preparation for the GM.

What I might suggest is looking into the Crypt of the Everflame module that I think then uses Masks of the Living God as a sequel. Now in fairness I haven't played or read either of those two modules but I have read many good reviews for both modules.

Sustainable/local food, eh? I work for New Seasons Market so we have that in common. My only other question is, are you available anytime tomorrow (Tues) to meet? You sound like a great guy and your style you described sounds like ours. Call me Bill.

Sure tomorrow would work for me. I work 9-5 more or less so I could get to somewhere in SE at any point after say 5:30 give me another 15 minutes if traffic is particularly bad. Oh and I am Scott.

Just saw your message, and I am definitely interested, I live in SE, and have been looking for a fun group to game with. While I am an adventure path subscriber I don't own the Kingmaker series so no need to worry about that. As far as my style of play, I enjoy role playing and combat equally. As far as the character I want to play, I would have to give that a bit of thought, I would probably come up with a couple of ideas and ask you which one might fit in best with the party.

As far as myself, I am 33 I work at a company that specializes in sustainable/local food. I have had a bad run of luck recently in joining games in the Portland area that had a group dynamic that I didn't fit in, and would look forward to having coffee/beer to see if I would fit in rather than showing up and having to sit through 5 uncomfortable hours.

If you have any other questions about me feel free to ask.

I just received my large package of stuff ordered during your Thanksgiving sale. I did not receive my:

'Pathfinder: Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's guide (OGL) Print Edition' PZO9000-2S

Everything else arrived in great condition and to be honest the players guide is a totally secondary item since the PDF is available for free. However if you still have copies available is there any way you can send it with my next subscription package (I don't want you guys to waste postage or packaging paper).

Very well done, and it looks very fair. In the near future I am quite possibly going to steal your hard work, verbatim.

But I will say thank you.

Ugggh, I just had to walk out on a group tonight part of me hated to do it because I could tell the GM put a ton of effort into his game but it was too much for me.

The GM was a nice guy and spent more time than any GM I have ever seen on his campaign world. His storyline was a little bit of a railroad and there seemed to be a number of cinematic scenes. Most of the combats seemed like scripted set pieces, he definitely had an idea of how the combat was 'supposed' to go. However I can work with a campaign like this, I don't prefer that style of combat, but I really enjoy the roleplaying.

The problem was we were playing the game in a FLGS and we somehow grabbed one each of every classic negative gamer stereotype as a player. We had the player who spent the entire time playing games on his IPhone, the gamer who played a thief and tried to pickpocket every npc he saw. We had the player playing the elf, who thought he was superior and belittled all other races(who in a shocking turn of events also tried to be the resident rules lawyer except he didn't know the Pathfinder rules and kept using misinterpreted 3.5 rules). We had the optimizer who couldn't, you know the guy who takes a buckler for AC then conveniently forgets that he can't use it while swinging a 2-handed sword. We had the guy who decided to 'play a chick' his words not mine. And then proceeded to make juvenile jokes about women and the fact that he was playing one all night.

I knew the first session I hated it, the GM was trying to run this epic roleplaying story that he had spent years working on, while the players were trying to play a hack and slash game, and doing it badly. Blatant mistakes on character sheets were everywhere, everyone seemed to roll dice when the GM wasn't looking and if it was a bad roll they would pick it up and roll again while if it was a good roll they would let it sit and then point to it when the GM looked up. However out of respect to the work the GM put in, I went to a second session to see if maybe it would get better. Five hours and a single fight with zombies later, I was done. The highlight was either the half hour we spent arguing the rules on if a zombie could charge through a plate glass window, or near the end when the GM basically told the group that he gives up because none of the zombies can hit the players and that he just had to throw away 3 pages of cinematic scenes he wrote up for just this fight.

Sorry bout the wall of text just venting after the 5 most frustrating gaming hours of my life.

Hoping you all have a great thanksgiving. I will be back over the weekend. Gotta run, turkey is almost done.

Sorry about the apparent off topic tangent, I lost track of the number of posts. By optimized I mean a wizard that's everything and the kitchen sink into a single stat at at the exclusion of all else, while expecting access to things like +4 or higher headbands of intellect by the time they can cast 3rd level spells, which is something I have never seen in any campaign I've played in. Or at least that is what I'm forced to guess by some of the numbers people were throwing around for "reasonable" concentration checks.

I think I was the first person who said a 'reasonable' concentration check for a lvl 7 wizard would be 15. I stand by that statement. Almost everyone I have played with use a 20 point buy or better, so I used a 20 point buy as a base. I understand many use 15 point buys but I would guess that at least 50% of people use a 20 point buy or better. That gets you a stat line of 10 12 14 17 10 10 assuming any class that gets to choose a racial bonus or gets int as their racial bonus that means the wizard starts with a 19 int and no negative modifiers. Assuming a stat bump in int at level 4 that brings a base 20 int at level 7. I also assumed by level 7 a wizard would have a +2 int headband giving a total stat modifier of +6. If you use traits many wizards will pick the +2 concentration trait.

So once again +15 concentration is +7 level, +6 int, +2 trait. This is done without unreasonable expectations by the player or a high powered game, just your standard heroic fantasy game. And this is done with a good constitution score, and no negative stats for those of you who hate dump stats.

+1 about wizards.

Yes pretty true about concentration checks, although it can be argued that the +2 trait bonus might not be there, and this also assumes a 20 int char with +2 int headband, something not everyone has. I for one have a GM that picks our traits after we have written a BG, and thus i aint able to pick excactly what i want, but generally i agree that at higher levels most of the checks is auto succes, although i disagree that it is already at lvl 7, but thats a minor argument.

While i do see the benefits of the object, i generally dislike giving my GM an opportunity to f*** with my char. But that may just...

To start off I think we both pretty much agree with each other, and I was simply using my experiences with characters to base the statement that most/many wizards have a +15 at level 7. Most of the games I have been playing recently have been 20 point buys, 2 traits chosen by player and standard by the book magic item creation/purchase. At least in those games I would guess that 75% of level 7 wizards have a natural 20 int, +2 int item, and the concentration trait. Heck even my last wizard sported those things(I try to take one roleplaying trait and one numbers trait).

Oh and at 7th level I think wizards still have a 40% or so chance of failing a DC 20 +spell level, concentration check. I haven't crunched the math but my guess is right around 12-14 is where most wizards will auto succeed on such checks.

And yes, I don't really like to give GM's leeway to mess over my character, and if I was playing a wizard with a GM that I had never played with before, I would seriously consider taking a familiar.

well as the required check to cast spells if the object disappears, is not a spellcraft check but a concentration check, i cant see how spellcraft is gonna help you that much.

The DC to cast a spell anyway, is also equal to 20+spell level, so the DC would be 24 to cast a level 4 spell. At level 7 you will have 7 levels, +4 int = 11+d20 to the concentration roll of 24. Thats 40% chance to succed, while still being possible, it means that 60% of your spells will have no effect, if you add in saves, any monster will then get effected about 20% of the times you cast a spell, thats not a lot. compared to about 50% normal.

I think more realistically many/most level 7 wizards will have a +15 or so check on their concentration. +7 level, +6 int, +2 trait bonus. Somewhere around level 12 or so you should automatically make any concentration checks due to not having your bonded item.

However depending on your GM you life could be made miserable at low levels by taking a bonded item. However to be honest if you take a ring, other than maybe one or two very special plot points losing your bonded item shouldn't be much of an issue. In my opinion if your GM is having every random pickpocket in the city try and slight of hand away your ring he/she either has it out for you or is just generally being a jerk. However that one time when there is a plot point that the party gets captured and stripped to their skivvies the arcane bonded wizard will be in a world of hurt.

One last note, it seems like the tedious and annoying folks who tried to turn every single post into 'omg, wizards are the roxorz, you are the fail if you play any other class!1!!!1!' have somehow made people so angry that they now seem to be trying to argue that the wizard is a weak class. Which as far as I am concerned is absurd, a well designed and played wizard is as good as any other class out there, but not head and shoulders better than all other classes. Nor does a good wizard make other classes obsolete, but please give the class it's due, it is very powerful and the weaknesses it has, can be easily overcome by a crafty player(no pun intended).

I don't see the problem with having a low charisma score and then writing in your character background that he/she is a hottie. The fact that you are a hottie shouldn't give you any in game bonuses or even RP bonuses. Sure you can have the fighter who looks like Adonis but with a 7 CHA, what benefit does that give him. When trying to convince a tribe of kobolds that they can work together the still see him as a fleshy pink thing and with a total of -2 to his diplomacy he probably won't get very far in the negotiations.

How about an example where beauty helps, in a bar sure, I might have the barmaid single him out first to try and flirt with, but almost immediately she will realize that he is a lout and start paying attention to the less physically attractive but far more interesting gnome sorcerer.

The only time I actually see significant problems is when someone who as a player is charismatic and intelligent dumps the charisma and intelligence on their character and the player uses his own intelligence and charisma during roleplaying.

Wilam Tayhorn

I applaud dressing the leopard in Cougar flavor. I'll check the cougar's stats later.

CMD 18?

CMD 19, (+4str, +2dex, +2base att, +1dodge)

Thanks for the look over, first druid I have played so I wasn't 100% sure of the animal companion. I can list what tricks it knows if you need?

Couple of quick notes, I changed Wilam's alignment to true neutral because it better fits who he is. While he leans towards helping people when possible he never forgets that the true reason for his being in Riddleport is to glean information to help his cause. Oddly enough I think that will actually work out well in this party, oh and while neutral he is still a team player since he feels that being accepted as part of the team will help him get closer to sources of information.

Second note I picked cougar for an animal companion, I know the choice was leopard or cheetah, however cougars are very similar in size, and their habitat matches the surrounding area far closer than the habitat of either a leopard or a cheetah, and of course I used the same stats as leopard/cheetah.

A wizard's spells, specifically those beyond his free spells gained at level up most certainly DO count against his WBL. Every new spell that he doesn't get for free has a viewing cost and a scribing cost and serves to make the wizard more powerful.

I like to think of WBL as a balancing measure. If you are allowing wizards to max out there spellbooks and not counting it against their WBL, then there are going to be problems with balance in all likelihood.

I would like to make it clear that in no way am I suggesting that extra spells either purchased, or found shouldn't be counted against wealth by level. What I am saying is that the class ability of the wizard. That he automatically learns 2 spells per level without paying any costs or spending any time should not be counted against wealth by level. Now if the wizard wants to go out and purchase every single spell in the book that is his choice, and he uses a portion of his wealth by level doing so.

Ok, lets examine my 'way off' math. Let me play by your rules of character creation, though I can thumb through just about any of the modules made by Paizo and see that they don't follow the rules you just put down.

So here is my hypothetical evoker, 11th level with a 20 int. Base 18, two stat increases for a total of 20 at level 11. Since he isn't a mook, and I want him to be a recurring bad guy I need to stat out his lower level spells, but since I can't see him ever using a cantrip I will ignore them.
For every given level I will give him half as many spells as he has spell slots. If he can cast 6 spells at a certain level I will only give him a total of 3 spells for that level, while 7 spells at a level means he gets 4 spells at that level.

What does this mean, it means our 11th level wizard now has this many spells at each level:

1st-4, 2nd-3, 3rd-3, 4th-3, 5th-4, 6th-2 (remember the rules tell me to chose a variety of spells for his highest 2 spell levels)

This comes to a total of 11590g out of 16350 or roughly 70% of his wealth. Leaving him with 4760g for gear. So he can either have a +2 int headband and some potions, or 2 protective items. Leaving him no match for my level 9 players who each have roughly 46,000g in items.

Finally as a GM who actually wants to challenge my players with an NPC spellcaster I would give this pauper of an 11th level NPC more than 3 2nd/3rd level spells if only so he can self buff enough to be able to present the smallest speed bump to my players.

I have been silent for a day or two, it isn't that I went away or am ignoring this game I was just waiting for others to get set up and ready. I will have some responses later today and maybe post my general day to day activities. I assume I arrived at the city at least a month before the meteorite.

As a point of note I absolutely will follow the game during the day while I am at work, and will be able to make short responses like a quick sentence of RP, or an imitative roll. Long drawn out speeches or something that takes time to form a response, will have to wait until the evenings for me to post.

That's why I compered it to a Rogue who steals something valuable.
The Wizard gets the spells for free, but then they become part of his gear and, thus, count against his WBL.

I have to disagree with this statement for several reasons. Free spells per level is a class ability. By this I mean under the description of the wizard class it says they get 2 free spells per level without having do do anything.

While the ability to steal valuables is given to the rogue as a class ability the actual valuables are not. To obtain valuables the rogue has to use his abilities against an NPC. At which point he is receiving treasure for overcoming an encounter. Now the difficulty of the encounter versus the value of the reward is I feel an entirely different argument.

Another example, to show why I feel that spells that wizards automatically gain for free should not count against their wealth by level. For purposes of this argument I will assume each spell is valued the same as a scroll of that spell would be valued at. Assume I am creating a 11th level non-specialized NPC wizard using core rules only. He will have 20 cantrips, 9 1st level spells, 4 each 2nd/3rd/4th/5th level spells, and 2 6th level spells, plus a spellbook valued at 15g. This brings him to a total wealth by level of 13190g. Looking at NPC wealth by level for a heroic 11th lvl NPC is 16350.

Using RAW by your definition I am basically limited in giving an 11th level NPC wizard enemy a Cloak of resistance +1 and a ring of protection +1?

I want to make it clear I was in no way trying to imply that I thought the battle oracle was an overpowered or somehow unbalanced class. I was simply musing that having a barbarian, battle oracle, druid focused on melee combat and an animal companion would make for an effective melee group.

In no way are any of the 3 the most optimal melee combatants for their level but I think they should be darn good at what they do.

As for healing neither the evil cleric nor the druid are terribly good at it, though the oracle should be decent. Since an oracle casts like a sorcerer, and automatically gets cure spells if good, or the choice between cure or inflict spells if neutral that is nearly the same thing as being able to convert.

To answer your question to if I am ok with having 3 divine casters, I don't have a problem with it. I do find it amusing that between 3 divine casters we will still have less total healing available than we would with a single good aligned cleric. Though our melee prowess will be quite nasty with the battle oracle.

I might change the wand of cure light wounds to something else if we have 2 more divine casters. I only took it because I was worried about being the only healer

Actually I have been using the alpha/beta release of PCGen that has the new info from the APG. I would say it is 90% complete at the moment. So far the archtypes I have tried out have worked, though I have found a couple that were buggy. The most obvious thing missing on the release I am using is there is no support for the new favored class options.

All in all PCgen does have some flaws as a pathfinder char generator, but my overall experience has been very favorable.

I am choosing the 20 point buy so I won't be rolling for stats. I do need to roll for hp's which I will do here:

Myself:

1d8 ⇒ 6
1d8 ⇒ 1

Animal Companion:

1d8 ⇒ 7
1d8 ⇒ 4

Edit: Question, will that 1 become a 2 with your 25% ruling?