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Mass Effect 3


Video Games

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fasthd97 wrote:
Bioware is no longer on my buy list SW TOR was wow with lightsabers,DA 2 utter crap,and now i get this with them defending it like microsoft defended vista.SERiously BIOWARE if your fans hate the ending then maybe just maybe you should i dont know listen to them.Ask hasbro what happens when you ignore your fans wishes.

This post is the worst. I should start an online petition to force you to rewrite that post, because it's terrible.

The worst part is that you think the loudest, angriest fans are the ones that should be listened to.


This article perfectly explains why so many people don't like the ending to Mass Effect 3.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are -right/

Apologies: I don't quite get the BBCode Tags.


Dorje Sylas wrote:

You have to use the right gun for the right situation. SMGs (like the Tempest) are good at stripping shields/barriers and then keeping them down with constant fire, not so good at flesh and armor. I tend to use them with Ultralight materials on characters that need a shield stripping gun for little extra weight.

They also make great sidearms for TEAM VANGUARD! As after anything left alive will be low HP but need to be dispatched quickly.

As an enthusiastic Vanguard player, I'll say that taking a Phalanx or Carnifex is much better for finishing off almost dead opponents. And for sniping when charging isn't an option.


Audrin_Noreys wrote:

This article perfectly explains why so many people don't like the ending to Mass Effect 3.

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are -right/

Apologies: I don't quite get the BBCode Tags.

Angry Joe also has done an excellent video on the subject.

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I liked the conclusion (I call it that, since I see the whole game as the actual ending). I, like others though, don't like the fact that the finale is 'pick 1 of 3 choices on the last dialog option in the game'. That's kinda lame. The results of the three choices, I'm fine with.

On the situation post choice:

Spoiler:
I really don't see the mass relays being toast as a problem. Shepard has brought the best and brightest scientific and military minds together around earth to launch the assault. We already have FTL tech, pan-galactic real time quantum coms, and can manufacture mass accelerator tech for guns. Now that we're buddy buddy w/ the reapers (control or synth), we can harvest them for a bit of knowledge (pardon the pun), and before you know it, we have a functional, if not more compartmentalized and portable solution to travel between star systems.

To me the biggest hurt is the fact that the galactic governing body is in ruins. The three (or two) living councilors are probably lying in that slow walking hallway on the citadel, and my good ol' cyborg Shepard took a flying leap through an energy beam. Who's that leave to run the galaxy? Hackett, who has me do all his grunt work? Ta'li who is insecure as all get out? Liara who may or may not be dead from Harbinger's beam? We pretty much have Primarch Victus, the one worth a crap Quarian admiral, the Geth Prime platforms, the Rachni Queen and Wrex to rebuild the galaxy. On second thought, I like that new council. Now we just need a decent space station to house them. Too bad Aria probably got popped in the taking of the Citadel...


Yay for a new galaxy under the command of Wrex. Tali would be a good partner for him in governing. =)

Osirion

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Even better than Councillor Wrex is this video, showing the final boss of the game in a whole new light:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=467pmIX-oZo

((Spoiler free even!))

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber

I finished the game last night (green ending). I have thoughts most of them positive. But that's for later.


archmagi1 wrote:

Even better than Councillor Wrex is this video, showing the final boss of the game in a whole new light:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=467pmIX-oZo

((Spoiler free even!))

Remember Marauder Shields. He died trying to saves us from the horrible endings. Remember him. Honor him.

Also some people have pointed out that he is the only thing that has ever done actual lasting damage to Shepard, making him more badass than any krogan and more dangerous than any reaper.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber

Still playing, avoiding glancing at posts in this thread like the plague.

MAJOR SPOILERS

Spoiler:
"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong."

"He has already asked for forgiveness. The prayer was meant for you."

"Legion. The answer to your question...was 'yes'."

;_;

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Comics Subscriber; Pathfinder Adventure Path, Tales Subscriber
Mikaze wrote:

Still playing, avoiding glancing at posts in this thread like the plague.

MAJOR SPOILERS
** spoiler omitted **

Too true.


Mikaze wrote:

Still playing, avoiding glancing at posts in this thread like the plague.

MAJOR SPOILERS
** spoiler omitted **

Yes, those were incredible powerful moments. Alas. I am interested in your opinion about the game when you finish it. Ending included.

Cheliax

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This is what I posted on another forum:

Ending was pretty bad. It doesn't feel like it's the worse ending ever, but I can't recall what ending I was more disappointed by. And I'm pretty open to different ideas on the ending. After a few days, I even liked the Sopranos ending.

But this was just bad.

1, no big fight to end - I just thought of this hours after I beat the game, but man, there was no big fight. The last real fight was my team against 2-3 banshees with colossus? backing them up. I ran from corner to corner, used a medigel to bring up my team, and then ran for the last missile launcher. I did, and got the cut scene. And then the run into the conduit, followed by the semi-fight with 3 husks, and 1 marauder. And then a Renegade action in my game to kill the Illusive Man. This is disappointing. I would have enjoyed a big fight with Harbinger first or something equally dramatic before the cut-scene/drama style "fights" to end. I can live with the cut-scene/drama style "fights" as long as there was a real fight beforehand.

2, ending didn't make sense - I have read the Indoctrination ending theory. It is a good theory. But I rather have something that made more sense and more clear. I can accept my Shepherd dying. I can accept my teammates dying. I can accept Earth being almost completely destroyed. But what we got just didn't really make any sense. It reminds me of end of Matrix Reloaded when the Architect explained how it worked, and my reaction was "...oookay..." That part was out of left field, and I felt like it was tacked on. I knew there was a cycle with the Reapers, but I didn't expect that to be so important that the ending that Bioware chose would go that route. The actual ending with the CG was random.

3, character endings - All the characters said their goodbyes to each other, but a post-ending entry would have been good. Of course, based on how the ending went, this was impossible.

5 or 6 or how ever many years ago when Mass Effect was released, I was skeptical that Bioware can have the players make game changing decisions. By end of ME2, I thought whatever the end was, Bioware could have made some satisfactory end, like KotOR's Light and Dark endings. I thought the endings were going to be the obvious 2. 1, humans prevail, Reapers are defeated/destroyed, and galaxy is saved. 2, humans control Reapers, and start a wave of conquest or domination that had not be previously seen in the galaxy. Either way, Commander Shepherd becomes a legendary figure.

I'm sure by now the usual questions of "it was a FU to the fans", or "they didn't have the time to finish it, FU EA for the deadlines", or "Bioware chose an ending too smart/clever for the masses", or the worse of all "real ending in a paid DLC later" has been floated a few million times. I tend to think they might have ran out of time. Originally weren't they supposed to release for holidays 2011? I rather they taken another 2 months to give a better overall ending, even if there was not more CG.

I'll be replaying the game in about a week or so using my female "good" Shepherd to see some differences. And then after that probably a male non-import Shepherd with Numerous deaths and few allies on purposes to see what happens. But I guess I'm part of the fans that want a real ending. Never thought I that would happen, but this ending was so...lacking more than most that I can think of.


You know,I haven't even played the thing.
I started with ME2 and thought it was a great game. I was thinking f buying 1 and 3 at the same time and playing the whole thing through as a 100% paragon Shep. Now with all the backlash, I think I might save my money for somemore time, wait to see what happens with the ending shenanigans if anything happens at all.
Might still buy ME1 just so I can drive the mako and meet Wrex and Ashley.

Tough ME3 did make a pretty brilliant meme. Marauder Shields tried to saveyou from the endings, why didn't you listen to him? Ha!

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
VM mercenario wrote:

You know,I haven't even played the thing.

I started with ME2 and thought it was a great game. I was thinking f buying 1 and 3 at the same time and playing the whole thing through as a 100% paragon Shep. Now with all the backlash, I think I might save my money for somemore time, wait to see what happens with the ending shenanigans if anything happens at all.
Might still buy ME1 just so I can drive the mako and meet Wrex and Ashley.

Tough ME3 did make a pretty brilliant meme. Marauder Shields tried to saveyou from the endings, why didn't you listen to him? Ha!

I really recommend picking up ME1. I really enjoy it even with its clunky play. Its got great story and it even makes ME2 more fun to play through. Wait a bit on ME3 I have a feeling all kinds of DLC will be coming out. It wont be worth pitching out all kinds of cash to play it. After some time you can pick it all up at a bargain.


If VM can play the long game (i.e. have enough patience), I definitely concur. I could have gotten all the DLC+Mass Effect 2 much cheaper... if I had waited a year and a half.


Quote:
After some time you can pick it all up at a bargain.

There is a question mark over this. Eighteen months on, there is no sign of a 'game of the year edition' for MASS EFFECT 2 that incorporates all the downloadable content into one package. The budget editions of ME2 do not include the DLC, you still need to get it separately (the only two of note - Shadow Broker and Arrival - actually came to slightly more than ME2 itself for me).

More annoying still is that thanks to ME1 being published by a different company, there will apparently never be a complete package incorporating all three games.


Anyone who hasn't gotten ME3 yet should wait til Bioware writes up some better endings.

Spoiler:
All three endings are essentially the same and ignore everything you worked for. Worst ending ever.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

MISSION COMPLETE

Spoiler:
Jiara Shepard
Adept
Paragon
Colony kid from Mindoir before it was sacked by slavers
Sole Survivor of her unit on Akuze
Spared the Rachni Queen
Saved Wrex
Lost Kaiden Alenko on Virmire
Romanced Liara
Saved the Council
Gained loyalty of her entire second crew
Survived the suicide mission with no one left behind
Destroyed the Collector base
Ensured the cure of the genophage
Took the shot on Udina to save the Council
Made peace between the Quarians and Geth
Lost Mordin, Thane, and Legion
Gathered one hell of an army pulling from every race in the galaxy
Currently 1 out of 3 at talking dangerously unstable people with guns down without them shooting themselves
Synthesis Ending

Will post full thoughts later, but right now...hey Garrus!

Spoiler:
If you made it to that bar, and honestly I'm confused about whether or not you can even get to it...still fuzzy about that, what with Liara apparently teleporting away from us back to the Normandy to crash on some jungle planet....anyway, if you made it, save a seat for me!

I'll tell you one thing: Harbinger certainly isn't going to be giving you any competition for best shot in the galaxy...like ever. HAW.

Taldor

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Werthead wrote:
Quote:
After some time you can pick it all up at a bargain.

There is a question mark over this. Eighteen months on, there is no sign of a 'game of the year edition' for MASS EFFECT 2 that incorporates all the downloadable content into one package. The budget editions of ME2 do not include the DLC, you still need to get it separately (the only two of note - Shadow Broker and Arrival - actually came to slightly more than ME2 itself for me).

More annoying still is that thanks to ME1 being published by a different company, there will apparently never be a complete package incorporating all three games.

Yeah never having an all in one box is kinda sad but I wouldn't need it anyways. Sure there is no complete edition of ME2 but you can still get it new for like 20 bucks. And then buy DLC piece meal as you need. Its better than buying the game at 60 dollars right now. Plus you can allow some time to go by so people can non-spoiler review the DLC.


I've been a big fan of the Mass Effect universe since the first game came out. The endings were...disappointing, but not to the point where I felt I need to constantly rage about it. The rest of Mass Effect 3 was great - it incorporated a lot of what I wanted to see as far as story arcs that were introduced in the first game. The second game seemed like a huge diversion, that was sort of "fit-in" to ME3's plot kind of haphazardly, IMO. I never quite understood the point of a human reaper, honestly. I guess the motivations of the Reapers are unknowable - and I kind of hate that big loose end. The endings really just leave you scratching your head with more questions.

As far as DLC, I play these games on a console, and don't want to pay a yearly or monthly fee to access the online features. It would be really nice to have the ME2 DLC on a "Platinum Best-Sellers" disc. Also, there's an element to the game (galactic readiness) that is directly influenced by multiplayer - which in turn affects the outcomes available to you at the end of the game. I HATE this kind of bait and switch. If the online content is optional, great. When it's integral to the plot and storyline of a $60 game, not so much.

Overall, ranting aside, I'm looking forward to any new titles set in the Mass Effect universe. Not sure if they left this open for a ME4, but a prequel would be fun (playing as young Anderson, playing as Saren?)


FuriousPhil wrote:
I guess the motivations of the Reapers are unknowable

I haven't finished the game yet, but as I understand it they explain pretty clearly exactly what the motivations of the Reapers is.


Scott Betts wrote:
FuriousPhil wrote:
I guess the motivations of the Reapers are unknowable
I haven't finished the game yet, but as I understand it they explain pretty clearly exactly what the motivations of the Reapers is.

Yes they do and the Reapers motivations are really stupid.


Reaper motivations in brief::
Despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary (Geth and Quarians forging a lasting peace after centuries of war, a human hooking up with a robot girlfriend, etc), they insist that synthetics will always and without exception betray and kill their creators. So, the Reapers kill everyone every 50,000 years to prevent them from inventing sufficiently advanced synthetics. That's right. To prevent synthetics from killing you, different synthetics kill you. Maybe their prime directive is galactic kill-stealing?


Umbral Reaver wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Like I said the Reapers motivations are really stupid.


Umbral Reaver wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

So just to be clear the Reapers are Anti-Skynet right?


Talonhawke wrote:
Umbral Reaver wrote:
** spoiler omitted **
So just to be clear the Reapers are Anti-Skynet right?

Spoiler:
They’re the terminators that want to kill us now to prevent other terminators from killing us in the future.

Best explanation of the motives of the Reapers.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Charter Subscriber

Just finished it last night. Amazing series of games, truly an amazing accomplishment to make something so flexible and personally satisfying. 120+ hours invested over three games (not counting replays) is a definite indication for me of just how invested I've been in this series. Bioware has an incredible accomplishment with this series.

But that ending... woof.

My thoughts on the ending:

Spoiler:
If the Catalyst had been cut out completely, I think I would have been fine with it. To me it seemed like the confrontation with the Illusive Man in the Citadel was where you should have made your choice. Paragon path Shepard could shoot the Illusive Man or talk him into offing himself, active the Crucible to destroy the Reapers, slump down next to Anderson and hear Keith David's rich voice say,"You done good, son. I'm proud of you." Earth is battered but reclaimed, a tentative peace settles on the galaxy. End.

Renegade Shepard could reveal to the Illusive Man that he's been indoctrinated, take control of the Reapers (and by extension keep the Illusive Man as his puppet) and become the space despot that humanity secretly craves.

I would have been happy with either of those. The Reaper on Rannoch tells you enough of their motivations to understand what's going on that you don't need the Catalyst for that and it's a little more organic than "pick your ending from the endings machine you built throughout the game".


Umbral Reaver wrote:
** spoiler omitted **

Spoiler:
Except they're not killing all organic life every 50,000 years. They're only killing the advanced organic life, while leaving developing organic life alone. Their whole goal is to preserve the existence of organic life, and they operate under the dual precepts that synthetic life and organic life cannot coexist, and that organic life will churn out synthetic life if allowed to develop past a certain point.

And, frankly, the Reapers have a pretty good argument going there. Remember, the Geth did nearly wipe out the Quarians (ignoring for the moment whose fault it was), and it wasn't until the threat of the Reapers arose that anything was done about it. Heck, if it weren't for Shepard's interference during the effort to retake Rannoch, the Quarians probably would have all died at the hands of the Geth. The Reapers would not have been constructed and unleashed upon the galaxy if their creator(s) did not have strong evidence that synthetic life is a very real threat to organic life.

The end of the story, however, is designed to give you the opportunity to show the Reapers that the various species of the galaxy - organics and synthetics both - can band together and cooperate for the sake of their mutual survival, thus justifying the end of the Cycle. It's good storytelling.


Xabulba wrote:
Yes they do and the Reapers motivations are really stupid.

I have to say I sort of agree. Like I said before, the ending didn't make me angry, they just left me scratching my head with a bunch of unanswered questions.

Spoiler:
What happened when the Mass Relays blew out? Who is the Catalyst (the creator of the Reapers? A delusional apparition?) If the Catalysts was the Citadel, why did Sovereign and Saren go to all that trouble in the first game to take control of the Citadel? Why did Joker hightail it, and where did they go? Who are the old man and the child talking about "The Shepard"? The whole thing tries to be pseudo- philosophical and deep, but it's just vague and confusing.

By "unknowable" I meant that the in-game explanations (talking to Sovereign on Virmire, other instances of direct conversation with Reapers) might be somewhat clear, but that it's pretty much implied that lowly mortals aren't going to comprehend why hyper-intelligent machines want to eliminate chaos by creating more...chaos. Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense - maybe they were going for the whole "god-machines work in mysterious ways" or...something.

Or maybe just unknowable to us lowly mortal gamers - only the lead writer and project director know for sure!

Also, I can't think of a more literal deus ex machina in any game or other media off the top of my head. Event Horizon maybe? Although that was more diabolis ex machina come to think of it.

I can relate to having to pull some kind of an ending or resolution out of a hat, anybody who has GMed faces this at some time or another. But that's quite a bit different from developing a video game with lead times and scripted dialogue.


FuriousPhil wrote:
By "unknowable" I meant that the in-game explanations (talking to Sovereign on Virmire, other instances of direct conversation with Reapers) might be somewhat clear, but that it's pretty much implied that lowly mortals aren't going to comprehend why hyper-intelligent machines want to eliminate chaos by creating more...chaos.

They're not creating chaos, aside from a cosmically brief period of extreme violence as the most advanced races are culled. They probably see it as restoring things to their proper order, with organics continually developing but not growing to a point where their decisions threaten all organic life in the galaxy.

Quote:
Just doesn't make a whole lot of sense - maybe they were going for the whole "god-machines work in mysterious ways" or...something.

No, I think the whole "You mortals wouldn't understand!" thing is just an example of the arrogant, dismissive design of the Reapers. It isn't incumbent upon them to make their target species' understand. They can exterminate them with or without their approval. Heck, if they really want approval from organics, there's always indoctrination.

Quote:
Or maybe just unknowable to us lowly mortal gamers - only the lead writer and project director know for sure!

No, the writers did a pretty solid job of explaining what the Reapers are up to and why they're here.

Quote:
Also, I can't think of a more literal deus ex machina in any game or other media off the top of my head. Event Horizon maybe? Although that was more diabolis ex machina come to think of it.

This isn't deus ex machina at all.

First, I'm not sure which plot element you're calling deus ex machina. If you're calling the Reapers deus ex machina, it's incorrect because deus ex machina is a plot device used to resolve a conflict. Instead, the Reapers are the overarching antagonist of the series, and are instrumental in creating the central conflict. They don't qualify. If you're referring to the Crucible/Stargazer, that's not deus ex machina either, because the entire third game was spent trying to put it into operation in order to end the conflict. Deus ex machina only takes place when the resolution comes from a sudden and unexpected source. The use of the Crucible to end the conflict is hardly unexpected - it's what you've spent the whole game working on!

Andoran RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

Just finished the game. The thing I hated most about the ending is the inability to save after the beam. Combined with the inability to skip long exposition conversations and the fact that you move at crawl speed, it takes 30 min of watching the same stuff just to get a different ending.


Scott, the Catalyst "child" speaking to Shepard is the part I'm saying is deus ex machina. I don't see how it could be seen otherwise. I appreciate that you may have a different opinion though.

If the writers did a "solid job", then why was I and so many other gamers left confused and disappointed at the end? I read the codex entries. I even reviewed the conversation with Sovereign. The ending doesn't offer any resolution - it leaves us with more questions. If you have a good explanation for the motivation of the Reapers, I'm all ears.

I'll grant you that several hundred years of chaos is maybe not significant compared to countless 50,00 year cycles. But if organics and synthetics have reached peace on their own, the Reapers function becomes obsolete - they become merely a force of destruction with no greater purpose anymore. A galaxy wide culling of advanced organic life seems like a terrible inefficient and well, extremely chaotic way of achieving the galactic cycle reset button. Why not let organics annihilate themselves?

The Reapers are hypocritical at best. They themselves are hybrid organic synthetic. Someone created them. Their goals seem to be to 1)create more reapers using genetic material 2)somehow balance out the universe when those uppity organics get too advanced for their own good or 3)not comprehensible to beings not as advanced as they are. None of these motivations seem very compelling to me. Maybe I'm overthinking it!

I really like the series - I'm a fan. But the critics of the ending are right in that it presented not enough closure or resolution and too many unanswered questions. It was certainly thought-provoking, and maybe like 2001: A Space Oddysey if that's what they were trying to go for. Not sure if it "fit" as the conclusion to an otherwise excellent action RPG.


More importantly if the Reapers were designed to save organics from synthetics why are the culling organics every 50k instead of just destroying synthetics every cycle?

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
Xabulba wrote:
More importantly if the Reapers were designed to save organics from synthetics why are the culling organics every 50k instead of just destroying synthetics every cycle?

Because the organics would just make more synthetics and the Reapers would likely have to cull more often. By culling the organics down to pre-tech levels, they give themselves a longer cycle as the organics have to develop the civilization that would enable them to make synthetics.

As to some of the comments as to why the peace treaty with the Geth should be enough to quell the Reapers concerns about synthetic life and organic life coexisting; yes, that is all well and good, but what happens with the next form of synthetic life that is created? Maybe it'll be the one that'll wipe everyone out. To them its inevitable that at some point A synthethic race will wipe out organics, it may not just be the first one on the playing field.


So the Reapers would have to come around every few thousand years instead of 50k, I really don't think the Reapers would care.
The whole thing is still a plot hole you could fly a planet through. The Harbinger was obviously psychotic when he programmed the Reapers because all he needed to do is give an 'indoctrination' fueled warning to any race that reached the Citadel not to build synthetic life. Also have the keepers call in the Reapers if they learn of any synthetic life that developed so they could destroy it before the synthetics started killing off organic life.


Xabulba wrote:

So the Reapers would have to come around every few thousand years instead of 50k, I really don't think the Reapers would care.

The whole thing is still a plot hole you could fly a planet through.

Several ones, actually. The ending of the game is horribly written on every account. Which is why so many people are upset.


magnuskn wrote:
Xabulba wrote:

So the Reapers would have to come around every few thousand years instead of 50k, I really don't think the Reapers would care.

The whole thing is still a plot hole you could fly a planet through.
Several ones, actually. The ending of the game is horribly written on every account. Which is why so many people are upset.

I agree totally. The Reapers logic faults are the least of my disgust with the ending.


Solid writing:
At the last moment you introduce a new character in the story, one that was never even hinted at, and make him explain lots of new info that are at odds with, or even contradicts, all the previous established info. That character, that was never mentioned by anyone, is the cause to all of the troubles and is extremely important to the plot.
Yeah. Very solid. A solid textbook on what not to do when writing.

Andoran

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Card Game Subscriber
VM mercenario wrote:

At the last moment you introduce a new character in the story, one that was never even hinted at, and make him explain lots of new info that are at odds with, or even contradicts, all the previous established info. That character, that was never mentioned by anyone, is the cause to all of the troubles and is extremely important to the plot.

Yeah. Very solid. A solid textbook on what not to do when writing.

Honestly, this is the only part of the ending that bothered me. Plot holes I can deal with (I watch Dr. Who, which is often nothing but a plot hole), but having the endgame direction dictated by a left-field new character in the last 10 minutes was frustrating.


It may interest some of you to know that the writing team was not involved in writing the ending sequence.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Campaign Setting, Companion, Modules Subscriber
Umbral Reaver wrote:
It may interest some of you to know that the writing team was not involved in writing the ending sequence.

Well, that would explain some things. The deus ex machina, the exposition bomb, the

Spoiler:
reduction of every choice you made in the game into a funnelled down set of three painfully similar results that are just handed to you.

Honestly, ending on that camera pull-out on Anderson and Shepard seated in the Citadel would have left far less of a bad taste in the mouth.

I want to get into what I enjoyed about the game soon, because there's a lot of that, but damn.

Misgivings:

Spoiler:
This pretty much wrecks a setting I was very much in love with.

Destroying the mass relays, effectively wiping out galaxy-wide civilization.

EVERYONE on the Citadel apparently dying. Everyone you helped there and got attatched to. From Captain Bailey to Refund Guy, from Shaira to You Humans Are All Racist Guy. All of it gone. Honestly, Citadel felt more like home than Earth ever did in this series. And it just has a bridge dropped on it.

Your teammates apparently teleporting to the Normandy. Which is in FTL for some reason.

And then it lands on a paradise planet. Where either Garrus and Tali are doomed to starve to death or everyone else is.

Mass relays blowing up have been shown to destroy whole solar systems, so there's that too.

And even if they don't, it pretty much screws every outlying colony that can't support itself without outside aid. Goodbye everyone on Omega for starters.

Every alien populace, such as a huge portion of the Migrant Fleet, is now stuck far beyond the reach of home.

Shepard is widely lauded for being able to MAKE a third option, but here all the solutions are just handed over on a platter. Literally "here, pick your ending. If you want to see the same ending with a different color filter, reload and pick another!"

And I never got to see Liara with our little blue babies. :(

Honestly, I fully expected Shepard to die at the end of the trilogy, but I was hoping for something a bit lighter on the direct AND inferred doom and gloom no matter what choice you make.

And hot damn. That prompt about "Continue Shepard's adventures blah blah blah" after the credits didn't exactly help.

It's hard to muster much positive feeling for this ending.

The journey was fantastic. I just don't want to consider this current ending to be the final word on anything.

Hopefully Marauder Shields will hold the line until things get better.

I'm actually starting a new playthrough of the series now, with my original Shep. I'm hoping by the time I get to 3 again it has a more satisfying endgame.


One other confusing bit about the ending, which I haven't seen mentioned before...

Spoiler:
Why the huge emphasis on organics vs synthetics? The Krogan, left to their own devices, would wipe out all life in the galaxy. As EDI says, artificial life has no pre-determined purpose, while organic life is meant to reproduce its genes. So while a synthetic being might decide to purge the galaxy if presented with a good reason, the Krogan would do it as a byproduct of their genetic imperative.

If the whole point is "creator vs. created," this would make at least a bit more sense. Makes the whole Krogan uplift a part of the overall plot instead of just a part of the galactic background, as well as the talk about the Yahg. However, concentrating on synthetics leaves us only with the examples of EDI and the geth. Here is a hint, Bioware: If you want people to fear synthetics, don't make them adorable and/or sexy.

While I am a glad something is being done, I have little hope for the "closure and clarification content." The end is just so basically flawed I don't think any amount of "clarification" could fix it.

But hey, at least the game was fun. I'd rather a disappointing ending than a bad journey.


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FuriousPhil wrote:
Scott, the Catalyst "child" speaking to Shepard is the part I'm saying is deus ex machina. I don't see how it could be seen otherwise. I appreciate that you may have a different opinion though.

I have a really hard time seeing how the Stargazer qualifies as a deus ex machina element. He is an explanatory force, certainly, but he does not himself resolve the central conflict of the story by appearing suddenly at the end. The plot element central to the story's resolution is the Crucible, and Shepard's ultimate decision on how to use it. That is not an out-of-nowhere element. The Crucible is central to the entire game, from the moment you set foot on Mars right on through to the very last action you take. The Crucible - including every effort Shepard made along the way to secure its effective deployment - is the element of resolution, not the Stargazer. And it has a very appropriate amount of "screen time" dedicated to it throughout the game.

Remember, a deus ex machina element must itself be the force of resolution, making an appearance solely to resolve a seemingly unresolvable conflict. Since it is more or less expected throughout the entire game that the Crucible is the best shot the galaxy has at winning the way, it's pretty difficult to see its use at the end of the game as sudden. The Stargazer alone certainly doesn't count, as it is simply there to provide some final exposition.

I'm not saying we're looking at award-winning storytelling at the end of the game, but let's not go tossing around terms like "deus ex machina" for whatever we feel like.

Quote:
If the writers did a "solid job", then why was I and so many other gamers left confused and disappointed at the end? I read the codex entries. I even reviewed the conversation with Sovereign. The ending doesn't offer any resolution - it leaves us with more questions. If you have a good explanation for the motivation of the Reapers, I'm all ears.

I already offered it: The Reapers' creator(s) clearly believed very strongly that organics and synthetics could not coexist. Beyond that, they also believed that, in any open conflict between synthetics and organics, synthetics would be ultimately victorious. They firmly believed that this inevitable war would spell the end of all organic life, as synthetics would make the purely rational decision to remove any possibility of further conflict by wiping out all organic life in the galaxy. Thus, in order to preserve organic life, the Reapers' creator(s) made a difficult decision - they would start the "Cycle", a process that would repeat every 50,000 years, and would cull the most technologically advanced races from the galaxy in order to prevent the creation of unstoppable synthetic life. By doing so, they ensured that organic life in some form would continue to exist, even if a particular set of species would be eliminated.

The game's defining moral argument is Shepard's literal and rhetorical assertion that the galaxy has arrived at a place where the dangers of interaction between synthetic and organic life are manageable rather than destructive.

Remember, the whole point of the game is that the Reapers' creator(s) were wrong. If their position doesn't make sense to you, it may be because you just spent three whole games showing them exactly why they're full of crap.

Quote:
I'll grant you that several hundred years of chaos is maybe not significant compared to countless 50,00 year cycles. But if organics and synthetics have reached peace on their own, the Reapers function becomes obsolete - they become merely a force of destruction with no greater purpose anymore.

Yes.

This.

You need to understand that this is the whole point of the game.

The arc of your character (at least, the Paragon Shepard; I can't speak for the Renegade Shepard I haven't played) is a thesis in mutually beneficial cooperation and sacrifice for the good of many.

It's not a clear-cut ending. It's an ending that makes you think. And I'm sure we'll get to experience more of it before too long. But the Reapers had motivation. They had a raison d'etre. Whether that reason continues to be valid during the present cycle is the question that your Shepard spends his entire career trying to answer.

Andoran RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

The Reapers' very existence proves that unstoppable synthetic life doesn't necessitate the end of all organic life. The fact that they exist invalidates their reason for existence.

When I found out about the Crucible in the beginning of the game, I kind of figured that the destruction of the mass relays would be a side effect of its use. So that part didn't come as a surprise. But yeah, if you weren't on a garden planet when the relays fell, you're screwed.


The whole synthetics vs. organics, order vs. chaos crap is just the Reapers trying to confuse Shepard. In truth they are parasites, it takes them 50,000 years to return from other galaxies, they don't wait in dark space doing nothing.


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Scott Betts wrote:
I have a really hard time seeing how the Stargazer qualifies as a deus ex machina element. He is an explanatory force, certainly, but he does not himself resolve the central conflict of the story by appearing suddenly at the end.

Spoiler:
Conflict: The Crucible is not firing. Shepard is the only one in a position to try and activate it, but dies/passes out before succeeding. At this point, the conflict has become unresolvable.

Resolution: Star Child ascends Shepard in a beam of light, healing him enough that he can choose his preferred color of galactic destruction. Without the Child's intervention, we would have had no idea how to complete the activation of the Crucible and would have lost. Indeed, if you wait too long to make your choice, the Crucible is destroyed anyway.

This is pretty much a textbook deus ex machina. That it is, literally, a god from a machine just makes it a bad joke.

Scott Betts wrote:
Remember, the whole point of the game is that the Reapers' creator(s) were wrong. If their position doesn't make sense to you, it may be because you just spent three whole games showing them exactly why they're full of crap.

The problem with this chain of reasoning is that it makes the Reapers out to be idiots. "Wait, we didn't need to commit mass genocide over and over, taking solace only in preserving tiny portions of the population in robot bodies? Whoopsie-doodle!" And the presented reason doesn't explain why the Reaper's don't just hover over worlds, wiping out civilizations as soon as they discover the wheel. Why purposefully give them access to technology that could feasibly hurt you, that could allow the undermining of your purpose, that lets them spread throughout the stars and make your job tougher? It would have been better to leave their purpose mysterious than make them the Three Stooges of galactic genocide.

Scott Betts wrote:
Quote:
I'll grant you that several hundred years of chaos is maybe not significant compared to countless 50,00 year cycles. But if organics and synthetics have reached peace on their own, the Reapers function becomes obsolete - they become merely a force of destruction with no greater purpose anymore.

Yes.

This.

You need to understand that this is the whole point of the game.

The arc of your character (at least, the Paragon Shepard; I can't speak for the Renegade Shepard I haven't played) is a thesis in mutually beneficial cooperation and sacrifice for the good of many.

So why don't they just leave? The Reapers are intelligent, they know their purpose. After Shepard unites the galaxy, the Star Child could tell them to just pack up and go, maybe give the galaxy a good show and pretending the Crucible did something so they feel like they were victorious. Instead we are presented with three nonsensical options, only one of which is even theoretically superior to just bugging out. And that one option is so bizarre and off theme that I can't really say it was satisfactory either.

Although the ending did, indeed, make me think. It made me wrack my brain, trying to create some sort of way in which any of it made sense. After determining it was impossible, my mind moved on to other questions. "What was Casey Hudson smoking while watching Battlestar Galactica and writing the ending?" being chief among them, along with "Where can I get some?"


Scott Betts wrote:

Remember, the whole point of the game is that the Reapers' creator(s) were wrong. If their position doesn't make sense to you, it may be because you just spent three whole games showing them exactly why they're full of crap.

Quote:
I'll grant you that several hundred years of chaos is maybe not significant compared to countless 50,00 year cycles. But if organics and synthetics have reached peace on their own, the Reapers function becomes obsolete - they become merely a force of destruction with no greater purpose anymore.
Yes.

This.

You need to understand that this is the whole point of the game.

The problem this is not covered well by the ending. The whole fight/ally/reconciliation with the Geth isn't even something you can throw in the Reaper's faces. If you betray the Geth or they betray the Quarians isn't covered. The finally fails this and is almost so blandly generic/cryptic/inconclusive.

You don't prove them right, wrong, or the many flavors of quarks.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

The worst part of ME3's ending? The more you think about it, the worse it gets.

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