Can't help it that some people are wrong.
It's 3 for taking the feat +1 per hit dice beyond 3.
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Yep you've got the right of it. Sometimes people are wrong, and then post about it. The wording of the feat is clear. It's basically +1 Hp/level. Helps a little with survivability and means you can put your favoured class bonus into skills if you want to. Not too shabby.
I always take this and Improved Initiative as a spellcaster. Means I can go first and go last.
Yeah, people can post misleading or outright correct things. Take Empower Spell as an example: Many people will tell you that an empowered fireball (CL 10th) will do 15d6 damage (which is wrong), rather than telling you to roll 10d6 damage then multipl the result by 1.5 (so a roll of 30 would result in 45 damage, for example)--which is the correct way of doing it.
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Old thread but I'll throw in my 2cp.
The way it seems to read now, it gives you +1/level. The +3 makes it a bit more useful for the 1st-3rd level characters since it gives them the 1st 3 levels worth up front.
It doesn't matter when you take it (which is the clarification I was trying to wrap my head around). If you take it at 1st level, at level 5 you will have +5 HP from it. If you take it at 5th level, it will give you +5 HP.
How do you people even come across these 2 yr old threads!!!! (Not to be read in seriously)
WHY ARE YOU WEARING MY FACE? STOP MOCKING ME WITH YOUR SARDONIC LAUGHTER. IT IS MINE... it's all eerie man.
It is a Feat to help your 1st level character survive that hit from a one-armed goblin with no depth perception.
Toughness has saved one of my 1st level characters more than once. A solid (if not exciting) Feat for any class.
It is a Feat to help your 1st level character survive that hit from a one-armed goblin with no depth perception.
Toughness has saved one of my 1st level characters more than once. A solid (if not exciting) Feat for any class.
Or a crit from a raging halfling barbarian ;)
Or a crit from a raging halfling barbarian ;)
Yeah, those are scary.
Wow 2-year necro on a thread that was confusion about a thread that was 3 years old.
FYI - The thread linked in the 3rd post was during the Beta Playtest - at that time, the Toughness feat did indeed give 4 hp at first level.
/thread
Oh, I've just come across what I think is an even "more wrong" ruling of Toughness.
My GM and I just got in an argument about this feat, with my other two players wishing I would just shut the hell up. He runs Toughness as +3 HP for levels 1, 2, and 3 (each). And then +1 HP for each level after.
So a character reaching 4th level will have a total of 10 extra HP, whereas my reading of the Feat would give the character 4 extra HP (the first 3 frontloaded).
And so I thought this was a house rule, but he's convinced that's the legitimate reading of the Feat. And he has played PF as a player under several other GMs who have run it the same way.
I mean, I'll take all the HP he'll give...
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Some people have a hard time reading words????
Well... yeah, He's wrong but take those HP and run I guess! Nice to see a DM argue a rule that HELPS the players!
Chalk it up to rule 0 and have a field day.
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Yow! Some threads never die. It's almost spoooky!
Re-reading the feat... I mean it *is* only one and a half lines. It boggles the mind that such a straightforward bonus could be mis-read so frequently.
Is the wording on Cunning going to trip people up too?
It would've been a lot simpler if they'd just dropped the front-loading of the feat and made it +1 hp/level. Not that it's hyper-complicated or anything, but the front-loading is an oddball legacy thing that doesn't really add much to the feat.
It's great for martials because at level 1 it's their bread and butter. The biggest contribution of a fighter is damage and being a wall of hp enemies have to get past. Even at high levels, it means putting the FCB into skills if you want because HP is covered which is great for classes that are Skill point starved.
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Toughness is more impressive if the GM is making the players roll for HP. PFS, and many GMs I've encountered, just use maximum die roll for first level HP, which makes your characters lots more healthy at first level.
It's still useful, especially if you are going to a high HP build, or if your character just needs more HP to be functional. You can always use the retraining rules to retraint the feat into something else, if you find that your HP increase isn't needed.
PFS, and many GMs I've encountered, just use maximum die roll for first level HP, which makes your characters lots more healthy at first level.
This is actually not a houserule:
A level 1 character begins with maximum hit points for its Hit Die roll.
But you totally have a point, Toughness loses importance when you get more HP from other sources. It's still a nice feat then, given there are not so many ways to add HP.
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I don't think I've ever taken toughness in PF. My group has almost always used the PF Beta "Racial HP" rule.
Races with racial Con bonus get +8hp.
Races with no racial Con bonus get +6hp.
Races with a racial Con penalty get +4hp.
It really helps make levels 1-3 more survivable, and has little to no impact on PC power levels after 3rd or 4th levels.
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PFS, and many GMs I've encountered, just use maximum die roll for first level HP, which makes your characters lots more healthy at first level.This is actually not a houserule:
A level 1 character begins with maximum hit points for its Hit Die roll.But you totally have a point, Toughness loses importance when you get more HP from other sources. It's still a nice feat then, given there are not so many ways to add HP.
Wasn't really saying it was or wasn't a houserule. Though I tend not to think of character creation rules as being "houseruled" since every GM and DM I've play under likes a slightly different method for character creation. Even PFS has it's own special rules for character creation.
That said, not seeing that on page 15 of the CRB. Perhaps it was added in later editions of the CRB? Mine is one of the older editions, so it's always a possibility that my copy doesn't include the information because its old. Anyway, didn't mean to debate it, just curious if it really says that somewhere in the CRB.
That said, not seeing that on page 15 of the CRB. Perhaps it was added in later editions of the CRB? Mine is one of the older editions, so it's always a possibility that my copy doesn't include the information because its old. Anyway, didn't mean to debate it, just curious if it really says that somewhere in the CRB.
I don't know if it appears there in the book, but on the PRD it does appear in the common terms section.
Hit Points (hp): Hit points are an abstraction signifying how robust and healthy a creature is at the current moment. To determine a creature's hit points, roll the dice indicated by its Hit Dice. A creature gains maximum hit points if its first Hit Die roll is for a character class level. Creatures whose first Hit Die comes from an NPC class or from his race roll their first Hit Die normally. Wounds subtract hit points, while healing (both natural and magical) restores hit points. Some abilities and spells grant temporary hit points that disappear after a specific duration. When a creature's hit points drop below 0, it becomes unconscious. When a creature's hit points reach a negative total equal to its Constitution score, it dies.
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I don't know if it appears there in the book, but on the PRD it does appear in the common terms section.Hit Points (hp): Hit points are an abstraction signifying how robust and healthy a creature is at the current moment. To determine a creature's hit points, roll the dice indicated by its Hit Dice. A creature gains maximum hit points if its first Hit Die roll is for a character class level. Creatures whose first Hit Die comes from an NPC class or from his race roll their first Hit Die normally. Wounds subtract hit points, while healing (both natural and magical) restores hit points. Some abilities and spells grant temporary hit points that disappear after a specific duration. When a creature's hit points drop below 0, it becomes unconscious. When a creature's hit points reach a negative total equal to its Constitution score, it dies.
Ah, Found it, page 12. Thanks.