Domingos Santin |
3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Hello All,
I'm trying to build an Wizard conjurer (summon-focused)for Carrion Crown, but I've been away from the system for far too long, so:
1st) What's the point with Spell Focus (Conjuration) in this case?
2nd) Sacred Summons requires "Aura" feature. Where's that?
3rd) Kind having problems with feats. So far: Augument Summoning; Combat Casting; Defensive Combat Training; Spell Penetration... back in the days of 3.5 I had problems fitting all the options into those few feat slots... what else is of use?
4th) So far Enchantment and Necromancy are my prohibited schools. Any thoughts?
5th)Any other advice?
Thanks!
Helaman |
Hello All,
I'm trying to build an Wizard conjurer (summon-focused)for Carrion Crown, but I've been away from the system for far too long, so:
1st) What's the point with Spell Focus (Conjuration) in this case?
2nd) Sacred Summons requires "Aura" feature. Where's that?
3rd) Kind having problems with feats. So far: Augument Summoning; Combat Casting; Defensive Combat Training; Spell Penetration... back in the days of 3.5 I had problems fitting all the options into those few feat slots... what else is of use?
4th) So far Enchantment and Necromancy are my prohibited schools. Any thoughts?
5th)Any other advice?
Thanks!
Spell focus raises the DC on the enemy saves by 1... now if you are only summoning creatures, then no big deal but if you are using stuff like Acid Arrow and other summoning damage dealing spells it can be useful.
Augment summoning makes your summoned critters pretty good and tough.
Combat casting is a good spell at low to mid levels but loses milage at level 12+. Basically you use "defensive casting" as a standard action much like a fighter may chose to 'fight defensively'. If your character is forced to cast in a situation that would generate an attack of opportunity, the caster can cast defensively and avoid triggering the attack... however they need to make a concentration check to avoid losing the spell... this feat gives you a needed +4 to the roll.
Defensive combat training gives your Defensive Combat Maneuver bonus a boost to that of your level rather than your BAB... if you are thinking that tripping, grappling etc is likely to be an issue its not a bad choice though at the end of the day most fighters who work to pull such maneuvers will be so optimised that its not likely to avoid it even with this feat.
Spell Penetration? Lowers the enemy spell resistance - around level 10 or so Spell Resistance becomes an issue but I think it would be wasted on conjuring spells and better used for evocation spells.
Finally your two opposition school? Those are the two I chose and they are pretty common for a lot of casters I've seen posted here.
For Carrion Crown? Knowledge Skills are good.
Ringtail |
1. Spell Focus Conjuration would increase the DCs of your Conjuration spells by 1. Conjuration is a powerful school that can target all 3 saving throws, so as a wizard it is a usefull pull. Focusing on Summon Monster spells, Spell Focus Conjuration is the prerequisite for Augment Summoning, a solid feat for such a caster.
2. Aura is a class feature of Clerics gained at level 1.
3. As a caster both Toughness and Improved Initiative are your friends, and I'd recommend working them into your line up far earlier than Combat Casting, Defensive Combat Training, and Spell Penetration. Combat Casting and Spell Penetration are nice, but you can often avoid needing to roll concentration to cast defensively and if you plan on focusing on Summon Monster spells, you will be rolling to break SR less often than many casters. Defensive Combat Training is okay, but it often won't boost your CMD to a decent level unless you have a solid Strength and Dexterity. It could probably be avoided otherwise. Item creation feats are your friends as an Intelligence based caster since you can easily ignore many requisites for an item by boosting the DC while having the Spellcraft score to back it up.
4. As long as you aren't giving up Conjuration or Transmutation you should be fine. Enchantment is probably one of the better schools to give up. I'd probably drop Divination or Evocation over Necromancy for Carrion Crown, but that is really personal preference.
5.If you are focusing on Summon Monster spells heavily, I'd recommend the Summoner class. It gets many summons a day, always at the best possible level, that last longer than any other caster's summons and come out with a standard action rather than a full round of casting.
Fing Mandragoran |
The 1st thing I would say is this...
Then I would add my own suggestion of looking into Gnome Conjurer with the Teleportation Subschool.
*Edit* Just want to add, I know according to the guide the gnome isnt optimal due to not getting a +2 int. However, the theme is nice and having the bonus to illusions helps alot of great spells. That said, Elf Conjurer with teleportation subschool would be more optimal.
Domingos Santin |
First of all, thanks for the help.
Fing, I already read Treantmonk's Guide (it's nostalgic from my 3.5 days, actually)... however I'm still a bit unsure with a few things.
Ringtail, on #5, I'm thinking about a more versatile character. Also, the Summoner seems to focus on the Eidolon, which does not let him use the Summon spells... it doesn't sound attractive, but maybe I'm missing the point.
So... here's the feat selection so far:
1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1 - Scribe Scroll (Wizard)
1 - Augment Summoning (Human)
3 - Toughness*
5 - Improved Initiative
5 - Extend Spell (Wizard)
7 - Improved Familiar (for Azata Lyrakien)
9 - Supperior Summoning
11 - True Name (from Ultimate Magic Class Options)
From that on, get things like Spell Penetration and Combat Casting.
I liked the idea of the Teleportation Subschool, but Acid Dart seems useful at initial levels... or at least better than a crossbow.
When I started the idea I thought about going into Loremaster, but it's requirements are too harsh.
*Still thinking that my DM could be a good guy and give everyone full-hp, then I'd change this... I Guess.
Thinking about selecting Social Trait #9, +900gp at start, to use with scrolls for spellbook or use... or a 1st-level wand.
Corlindale |
Regarding the Summoner, you could look into the Master Summoner archetype, who gets a weaker eidolon but in exchange gets to use it while also summoning (and he even gets Augment Summoning for free, without even having to take SF: Conjuration, thus saving you a feat). http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/summoner/archetypes/paizo---su mmoner-archetypes/master-summoner
The huge advantage of the Summoner is that he can use summon spells as a standard rather than a full-round action, and that he can give them longer durations. Also, he can always use the level-appropriate summon ability a considerable number of times per day (5 + Cha mod for the Master Summoner), whereas your wizard might only have 2-3 slots for it at each new spell level. And the Summoner spell list isn't bad either - the cap of 6th level spells is somewhat deceptive, as he gets early access to a ton of useful spells, especially from the Conjuration school.
That being said, your Conjurer build looks nice too. I would personally go for the Teleportation subschool as its power remains useful - indeed, becomes more useful - throughout the game, whereas Acid Dart is barely worthwhile at early levels (only slightly better than Acid Splash) and useless later on.
Combat Casting is not that useful, especially not if you take it so late. At level 11+ concentration checks have become less difficult, and you will also have more ways of avoiding situations where you end up in melee.
BrutaleBent |
Better than a crossbow, sure; you hit a little easier, but basically same damage at initial levels. However, it quickly loses its appeal, though a swift teleport keeps getting more and more useful, as you can suddenly reposition yourself very easily, which can save lives. ;)
TLDR: I would stick with Teleportation subschool. ;) Though, it's personal preference. :p
jjaamm |
Better than a crossbow, sure; you hit a little easier, but basically same damage at initial levels. However, it quickly loses its appeal, though a swift teleport keeps getting more and more useful, as you can suddenly reposition yourself very easily, which can save lives. ;)
TLDR: I would stick with Teleportation subschool. ;) Though, it's personal preference. :p
AGREE. i LOVE TO BREAK COVER, CAST A SPELL, THAN VANISH BACK TO COVER.PLUS real handy for those grapples youl never break.
Spacelard |
First of all, thanks for the help.
Fing, I already read Treantmonk's Guide (it's nostalgic from my 3.5 days, actually)... however I'm still a bit unsure with a few things.
Ringtail, on #5, I'm thinking about a more versatile character. Also, the Summoner seems to focus on the Eidolon, which does not let him use the Summon spells... it doesn't sound attractive, but maybe I'm missing the point.
So... here's the feat selection so far:
1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1 - Scribe Scroll (Wizard)
1 - Augment Summoning (Human)
3 - Toughness*
5 - Improved Initiative
5 - Extend Spell (Wizard)
7 - Improved Familiar (for Azata Lyrakien)
9 - Supperior Summoning
11 - True Name (from Ultimate Magic Class Options)
I'd take Improved Initiative at 1st, Augment Summoning@ 3rd and 5th Toughness
1st level summons are rather rubbish and I think you'd get more mileage taking Imp. Init first. IMOLightbulb |
4. As long as you aren't giving up Conjuration or Transmutation you should be fine. Enchantment is probably one of the better schools to give up. I'd probably drop Divination or Evocation over Necromancy for Carrion Crown, but that is really personal preference.
If you ban Divination you don't have Read Magic as a cantrip - thus reading scrolls and spell book (before the cast the spell once) could be annoying.
Enervation is a really nice spell - I would not drop Necromancy.
Evocation and Enchantment are probably what I would choose. You lose some nice stuff but not all that much.
---------
Spell Focus (Conjuration) is required for Augment Summoning but considering:
1 Grease
2 Glitterdust, Web
3 Stinking Cloud
Are all really solid choices +1dc is not all bad.
---------
Of course if you ban Enchantment you lose Daze and Sleep. Daze being a decent spell at low levels and Sleep being perhaps the best at level 1.
Not sure what level you are starting at but that might tip it towards banning Necromancy instead.
---------
Finally consider the fun you can have with Illusions and Summons. You enemies will think you're summoning loads of creatures - when in fact 90% of them are actually a Silent Image - or other things like that.
LazarX |
Ringtail wrote:4. As long as you aren't giving up Conjuration or Transmutation you should be fine. Enchantment is probably one of the better schools to give up. I'd probably drop Divination or Evocation over Necromancy for Carrion Crown, but that is really personal preference.If you ban Divination you don't have Read Magic as a cantrip
Yes you do... preparing it takes two slots though.
jjaamm |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
BEST CONJURER FEAT EVER, for wizard.
Acadamae Graduate
Source Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide pg. 11
You have passed the grueling Test of Summoning and graduated from the Acadamae.
Prerequisites: Specialist wizard 1st; cannot have conjuration as a forbidden school.
Benefit: Whenever you cast a prepared arcane spell from the conjuration (summoning) school that takes longer than a standard action to cast, reduce the casting time by one round (to a minimum casting time of one standard action). Casting a spell in this way is taxing and requires a Fortitude save (DC 15 + spell level) to resist becoming fatigued
BEST 3RD LEVEL SPELL to use
Mad Monkeys
School conjuration (summoning); Level bard 3, druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, summoner 3
Casting Time 1 round
Components V, S, DF
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect swarm of monkeys
Duration 1 round/level
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
You summon a swarm of screeching, mischievous monkeys. The swarm understands and obeys your commands and has the statistics of a monkey swarm. Creatures failing a saving throw against the mad monkeys' distraction attack are deafened for 1 minute as well as nauseated. The monkeys attempt one disarm or steal combat maneuver each turn as a free action against any creature that begins its turn in the swarm, using your caster level plus your casting ability score bonus (Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for druids and oracles; Charisma for bards, sorcerers, and summoners) for its CMB. Recovering an item from the monkeys requires a successful disarm or steal attempt against that CMD. An object stolen by the monkeys takes swarm damage each round the swarm is in possession of the object.
Lightbulb |
Lightbulb wrote:Yes you do... preparing it takes two slots though.Ringtail wrote:4. As long as you aren't giving up Conjuration or Transmutation you should be fine. Enchantment is probably one of the better schools to give up. I'd probably drop Divination or Evocation over Necromancy for Carrion Crown, but that is really personal preference.If you ban Divination you don't have Read Magic as a cantrip
Fair point. For some reason I got it into my head it was a slot higher not too slots.
Teach me to post when ill! :)
Still a little annoying but not as bad.
Domingos Santin |
@ Kirth Gersen: I got the opposite impression when reading Treantmonk's Guide, that Pathfinder made summoning a better choice than it was in the old 3.5 days.
@ Lightbulb: I'm creating a brand new Lvl 1 character for Carrion Crown. Enervation is really good, but it may not work well with most bad guys I'll find in the campaign. That's the other point against Necromancy.
@ jjaamm: Where's that spell from?
However, now that you're saying, Evocation doesn't seem to be that great except for the flashy stuff and some high level spells...
I dropped the idea of prohibiting Divination after I saw Read Magic and basic stuff in there.
Imp. Init. in the first level it is :)!
By thw way... any spell of note from Ultimate Arcana?
About the Summoner... the class seems much about the Eidolon. This guy is really something to be feared in combat?
nategar05 |
A well built Summoner is crazy good. Then again, so is a well built Wizard, so play what you want.
You didn't pick a feat for your 10th level bonus feat. I'd consider Craft Wondrous Items at 5th and with the money you save from crafting you can buy an Extend rod. I'm not familiar with Carrion Crown though, so that may not work for your campaign. Also if you're picking up Spell Perfection at 15th level (as you probably should), it'd help to pick up actual metamagic feats along the way. If that's the case, I'd go Extend at 5th and Quicken at 15th, along with another useful one at 10th, such as Reach, Persistent, or Preferred. Selective would be a good pick for 10th level if you decide to blast stuff, but that seems unlikely if you ban Evocation.
My favorite Wizard build is Teleporting Conjuror that bans Enchantment and Necromancy, though Necromancy may be good for your campaign. IMO the best spells that you'd be missing out on by dumping them:
Enchantment: Daze, Sleep, Confusion
Evocation: Contingency, the Wall spells (especially Stone, Ice, and Force), Flaming Sphere is also nice, especially compared with Pyrotechnics.
Necromancy: Enervation, Clone, Magic Jar, Astral Projection
Zephyre Al'dran |
I keep hearing a lot of naysay against necromany, and usually I would agree, but in Carrion Crown it turns out to be EXTREMELY useful. Even if you don't wander around creating undead with either lesser animate dead (3rd level for Wiz) or other undead creating spells, 1 2nd level spell will rule them all, Command Undead. Unintelligent undead get no saving throw. Vampiric Touch is also nice, as it too will work on your undead foes, and (this is oddly ironic) disrupt undead is a necromancy spell. This could arguably be your most valueable weapon early in the adventure. Truthfully, in this instance, I'd actually recommend dumping divination and enchantment. Aside from detect magic and read magic, you really aren't going to get much use out of these schools here. Read magic would be situationally useful at best and rarely at that. You will need detect magic, but it is worth the extra slot. Enchantment does not even need to be considered. 3 of 6 modules have undead on the covers, giving plenty of an idea how often you will find enchantment school useless. Never mind your normal rate of undead encounters.
ShadowcatX |
The eidolon is really good, but to be honest, a summoner could do pretty fair running around without it. A great spell list and spell like summons grants you tons of casting. A master summoner does it better, but a regular summoner can do it very well, especially at higher levels when summon eidolon comes on as a second level spell consistantly.
LazarX |
@ Kirth Gersen: I got the opposite impression when reading Treantmonk's Guide, that Pathfinder made summoning a better choice than it was in the old 3.5 days.
@ Lightbulb: I'm creating a brand new Lvl 1 character for Carrion Crown. Enervation is really good, but it may not work well with most bad guys I'll find in the campaign. That's the other point against Necromancy.
@ jjaamm: Where's that spell from?
However, now that you're saying, Evocation doesn't seem to be that great except for the flashy stuff and some high level spells...
Flashy boom stuff not fun? What kind of mage are you? Even when I'm at my Controller mode, a bit of bang bang is always extremely satisfying.
Set |
2 people marked this as a favorite. |
3. As a caster both Toughness and Improved Initiative are your friends,
In addition to being good advice, generally, Improved Initiative ends up being extra fun for a summoning-specialist, as your summoned creatures go on your turn. The faster you go, the faster your posse goes.
Spell Focus (conjuration) may not be the sexiest Spell Focus (although it's certainly not as much of a wet sock as Spell Focus (abjuration) or Spell Focus (divination)!), but, at 1st level, grease is an amazingly fun spell (situationally more useful than the old standbys of color spray and sleep, as skeletons and zombies are not uncommon low-level foes), and at 3rd, glitterdust and web keep the fun going, so +1 DC to those conjuration spells isn't a total wash, just because it doesn't help with summoning.
meatrace |
The thing I've found about creature summoning is that it's really sorta meh at low levels and really freaking awesome at high levels. Sorta like casting in general ;)
Augment summoning is great and all, but to me summoning is more about utilizing the summoned creatures spell like abilities. As a wizard you can dish out some good group healing with the right high level summons. Keep an eye out for the Lantern Archon which is like auto-win against golems.
LazarX |
The thing I've found about creature summoning is that it's really sorta meh at low levels and really freaking awesome at high levels. Sorta like casting in general ;)
Augment summoning is great and all, but to me summoning is more about utilizing the summoned creatures spell like abilities. As a wizard you can dish out some good group healing with the right high level summons. Keep an eye out for the Lantern Archon which is like auto-win against golems.
I found summoning VERY effective at 1st and 2nd level. Having an extra meat shield on the battlefield means that something expendable is taking damage, even if it's only for one or two rounds.
Domingos Santin |
@Ravingdork, could you post your build?
@ Zephyre Al'dran, I took sometime to see some of those spells... really some looks
@nategar05, I'm always confused with those "Make a Killong Spell" stuff. What kind of Spell should be 'perfected' by Perfect Spell?
@ LazarX, agreed... let the BBEG hit the damn eagle instead of the FIghter, that's good ;)!
Still haviig some problems with high level feats, tough. Any advice?
nategar05 |
Spell Perfection is likely worth taking with every high level Wizard. At least every high level Wizard that uses metamagic, which is probably every high level Wizard.
For your build, I'd suggest you go for your favorite Conjuration school attack spell. Not only does Spell Perfection let you add free metamagic to it, it also doubles bonuses from feats like Spell Focus and Spell Penetration. If you plan on taking both, I'd recommend a good battlefield control spell that uses both of these feats for bonuses.
Anyway, a good example would be Plane Shift. It's 7th level, so making it Persistent makes it 9th level total so that would fall within the limits of Spell Perfection. It'd have a DC of 19 + Int (+2 from Spell Focus) and you have a +4 for overcoming Spell Resistance. They'd have to make their save twice to not be affected. If they can't get back it's practically a save or die.
There are other possibilities, like if you'd like to be able to Quicken your Teleports without increasing spell level for instance. Lots of possibilities.
Master_Crafter |
Here's an oddball suggestion taken from the UM, look at taking the Arcane Discovery: Opposition Research instead of one of your Wizard bonus feats. this will reduce your effective number of opposition schools by one.
Furthermore, if you chose one of the elemental schools from either the classical 4 (as presented in the APG) or the oriental 5 (as presented in UM) in addition to Opposition Research, you wouldn't even have to worry about having an opposition school.
Personally, I kind of like the Metal school. What can I say, dealing extra dmg against metaline or metal-clad opponents as though I had a free Empower, being able to gain an impromptu armor bonus on a class which can't wear armor, and getting free uses of a limited area shrapnel-based "fireball" all sit pretty well with me.
And I only have to spend one bonus feat to get back all my fire spells, even if I have to wait until 10th lvl to do so. Not that there is any lack of non-fire based dmg spells even if I didn't want to spend the feat. The bonus spells aren't the best, but they're still useful and hey, that's the tradeoff.
Short of that, the Conjuration school (Teleportation sub-school) is an excellent selection, though I would have chosen Enchantment and Divination. Enchantment because the best spells really only work well at lower lvls or if you put a lot into them, and Divination because most GMs rarely have enough info to make the higher lvl spells worth it, and two slots for most of the lower lvl spells will do the job out of combat. As for Read Magic and Detect Magic, they're cantrips, so the slots don't really matter with the whole infinite casting going on.
Sharleena |
My favorite Wizard build is Teleporting Conjuror that bans Enchantment and Necromancy, though Necromancy may be good for your campaign. IMO the best spells that you'd be missing out on by dumping them:
Enchantment: Daze, Sleep, Confusion
Evocation: Contingency, the Wall spells (especially Stone, Ice, and Force), Flaming Sphere is also nice, especially compared with Pyrotechnics.
Necromancy: Enervation, Clone, Magic Jar, Astral Projection
I agree Conjuror that bans Enchantment and Necromancy is the best. I'm creating one for our next game. A campaign with a lot of undeads. (Oddly enough Necromancy isn't that good if you are in a campaign with a lot of undeads.)
Not having Evocation is hard. Evocation is one of the best schools. Even if you DON'T want to be a blaster and instead want to be a controller. You have all the wall spells and all the 'hand spells' (Forceful Hand, Clenched Fist, Crushing Hand, Interposing Hand). If you want to use some blast spells you still have options like Prismatic Spray and the normal blast spells.
Contingency is of course very nice.
Actually the best controller is probably one with Conjuration, Evocation and Transmutation Schools.
Great thread. I will book mark this one.
Ravingdork |
My character build, as requested. See character portrait here, or the downloadable PDF character sheet here.
Despite his initially imposing persona, Britoris is actually rather benevolent and more morally balanced than most. He is helpful, pleasant, and genuinely cares about most people. He also acknowledges his job is to “help preserve the fabric of reality from supernatural forces,” suggesting that he has given up a normal life in order to serve others.
Despite his powers as a wizard, Orpheus has his moments of sheer failure. He is clueless about relationships, which is only somewhat mitigated by his affable nature. His pomposity is legendary and often off-putting, driving away people he likes. He is very insecure, as people don’t seem to take him seriously, and he often longs for a more adventurous life, often not appreciating the great work that he does accomplish.
Britoris Orpheus the Magnificent
Male human conjurer 3
NG Medium humanoid
Init +8; Senses Perception +1
Languages Abyssal, Aklo, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Ignan, Infernal, Terran, Varisian
DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+4 armor, +2 Dex); mage armor
hp 23 plus false life (3 HD)
Fort +3, Ref +3, Will +4
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee +1 scroll blade +1 (1d6/19-20)
Ranged by weapon +3
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 3rd; Concentration +8)
2nd (3/day) – false life (P), summon monster II
1st (5/day) – mage armor, magic missile (3), shield
0 (at will) – detect magic, light, mage hand, prestidigitation
Prohibited Schools enchantment, necromancy
STATISTICS
Abilities Str 8 (–1), Dex 14 (+2), Con 14 (+2), Int 20 (+5), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 8 (–1)
Base Atk +1; CMB +0; CMD 11
Feats Craft Wondrous Item, Improved Initiative (B), Scribe Scroll (B), Toppling Spell
Skills Appraise +11, Craft (alchemy) +11, Knowledge (arcana) +11, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +11, Knowledge (planes) +11, Knowledge (religion) +11, Linguistics +11, Spellcraft +11
SQ arcane school (conjuration [teleportation]), scroll blade, scroll shield, shift (5 feet) 8/day, summoner’s charm, traits (chance savior, magical lineage [magic missile])
Combat Gear arcane spell scrolls (adjuring step (UC) [CL 3rd] 4, alarm 2, chill touch 2, comprehend languages 2, darkvision, detect secret doors 2, detect undead 2, endure elements 2, expeditious retreat 2, false life, enlarge person 2, floating disk 2, grease 2, hold portal 2, identify 2, illusion of calm (UC) 2, invisibility 2, jump 2, mage armor 4, magic aura 2, magic weapon 2, mirror image, mount 4, obscuring mist 2, protection from evil 2, see invisibility, shield 2, silent image 2, true strike 2, unseen servant 2, ventriloquism 2); Other Gear hat of disguise, spellbook (29 pages left), spell component pouch
Spellbook 2nd-level—continual flame (M), crafter’s fortune (APG), darkvision, false lifeP, hideous laughter, invisibility, mirror image, rope trick, see invisibility, summon monster II; 1st-level—adjuring step (UC), alarm, bungle (UM), cause fear (P), chill touch (P), comprehend languages, detect secret doors, detect undead, endure elements, expeditious retreat, enlarge person, floating disk, grease, hold portal, identify, illusion of calm (UC), jump, mage armor, magic aura, magic missile, magic weapon, mount, obscuring mist, protection from evil, shield, silent image, snapdragon fireworks (UM), summon monster I, true strike, unseen servant, ventriloquism; 0-level—all core spells
Encumbrance light 26 lb., medium 53 lb., heavy 80 lb.; Weight Carried 0 lb. (excluding tender)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
[b]Scroll Blade (Su) You can wield any paper, parchment, or cloth scroll as if it were a melee weapon. In your hands, the scroll acts as a short sword with an enhancement bonus equal to ½ the level of the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll; a scroll with only a cantrip or 1st-level spell on it counts as a masterwork short sword. You are proficient in this weapon, and feats and abilities that affect short swords (such as Weapon Focus) apply to this weapon. You cannot wield two scrollblades at the same time. Activating this ability is a free action. A scroll blade only retains its abilities while in your hands. The scroll blade has hardness 0 and hit points equal to the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll. Each successful hit by the scroll blade reduces its hit points by 1; this damage cannot be repaired, but does not affect casting from the scroll. When its hit points reach 0, the scroll is destroyed. If a scroll contains a spell with a metamagic feat, this ability uses the original spell level of the spell (a scroll of empowered fireball counts as a 3rd-level spell). When using a 4th-level or higher wizard scroll as a scroll blade, you can choose to reduce its enhancement bonus by 1 (minimum +1 enhancement bonus) to treat it as a reach weapon. When using a 4th-level or higher wizard scroll as a scroll blade, you can choose to reduce its enhancement bonus (to a minimum of a +1 enhancement bonus) to give any of the following weapon properties: defending, frost, icy burst, keen, ki focus, shock, shocking burst, speed. Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of enhancement bonus equal to the property’s cost (see Table 15–9: Melee Weapon Special Abilities in the Core Rulebook). You must know the prerequisite spell or spells to craft the weapon property in question.
Scroll Shield (Su) You can wield any paper, parchment, or cloth scroll as if it were a light wooden shield. In your hands, the scroll grants a +1 shield bonus with an enhancement bonus equal to ½ the level of the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll; a scroll with only a cantrip or 1st-level spell counts as a masterwork light shield. The scroll shield has no armor check penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or maximum Dexterity bonus. You are considered proficient in this shield. You can use a scrollblade in one hand and a scroll shield in the other hand. Activating this ability is a free action. A scroll shield only retains its abilities while in your hands. The scroll shield has hardness 0 and hit points equal to the highest-level wizard spell on the scroll. Each successful attack roll against the wizard reduces the scroll shield’s hit points by 1; this damage cannot be repaired, but does not affect casting from the scroll. When its hit points reach 0, the scroll is destroyed. When using a 3rd-level or higher wizard scroll as a scroll shield, you can choose to reduce its enhancement bonus (to a minimum of a +1 enhancement bonus) to give it any of the following shield properties: ghost touch, light fortification, moderate fortification. Adding any of these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property’s cost (see Table 15–5: Shield Special Abilities in the Core Rulebook). You must know the prerequisite spell or spells to craft the shield property in question. If a scroll contains a spell with a metamagic feat, this ability uses the original spell level of the spell (a scroll of empowered fireball counts as a 3rd-level spell).
Shift (Su)[/b] You can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Summoner’s Charm (Su) Whenever you cast a conjuration (summoning) spell, increase the duration by a number of rounds equal to ½ your wizard level (minimum 1).
Ravingdork |
I have a player who is an Admixture Wizard but has decided to take feats, etc as if playing a Conjurer specialist.
I find that mixing it up often works better than being focused when it comes to specialist wizards. I once had an abjurer who focused on necromancy, getting things like Spell Perfection and Preferred Spell for enervation.
nategar05 |
I agree Conjuror that bans Enchantment and Necromancy is the best. I'm creating one for our next game. A campaign with a lot of undeads. (Oddly enough Necromancy isn't that good if you are in a campaign with a lot of undeads.)
Not having Evocation is hard. Evocation is one of the best schools. Even if you DON'T want to be a blaster and instead want to be a controller. You have all the wall spells and all the 'hand spells' (Forceful Hand, Clenched Fist, Crushing Hand, Interposing Hand). If you want to use some blast spells you still have options like Prismatic Spray and the normal blast spells.
Contingency is of course very nice.
Actually the best controller is probably one with Conjuration, Evocation and Transmutation Schools.Great thread. I will book mark this one.
+1. I'd add Illusion to the list of controlling schools, so that's Conjuror with Evocation, Illusion, and Transmutation.
Domingos Santin |
Hello all...thanks for all the help
So, here I am:
Orich
Male Human Wizard (Conjurer [Teleportation]) 1
NG medium humanoid
Init +6 (+2 Dex; +4 Imp. Init); Senses Perception +2
Languages Common (Taldane), Draconic, Elven, Dwarven, Celestial, Ancient Osiriani, Azlanti, Osiriani, Varisian, Undercommon.
DEFENSE
AC 12, touch 12, flat-footed 10 (+2 Dex)
AC 16, touch 12, flat-footed 14 (+2 Dex, +4 arbor); mage armor
hp 8
Fort +1, Ref +2, Will +3
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft. (6 squares)
Melee Quarterstaff -1 (1d6-1)
Ranged by weapon +2
Wizard Spells Prepared (CL1st; Concentration +5)
0 (at will): Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Light
1st (4/day): Grease (2), Mage Armor, Summon Monster I
Prohibited schools: enchantment, illusion
STATISTICS
Abilities Str 8 (-1), Dex 14 (+2), Con 12 (+1), Int 20 (+5), Wis 12 (+1), Cha 7 (-2)
Base Atk +0; CMB -1; CMD
Feats Improved Initiative, Scribe Scoll (w), Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Skills Fly +3, Knowledge (Arcana) +9, Knowledge (Nobility) +9, Knowledge (Planes) +9, Knowledge (Religion) +9, Lingustics +9, Spellcraft +9, Perception +2
SQ Arcane Scool (Conjuration [Teleportation]), Shift (5 feet) 8x/Day, Trait (Inspired by Greatness [TBD], Rich Parents)
Gear Belt pouch (empty), sack (empty), scholar’s outfit, spell component pouch, spellbook (33 pg used), scroll case, quarterstaff, 120gp
Scrolls Alarm (2), Comprehend Languages (2), Enlarge Person (10), Feather Fall, Mount (6), Protection from Evil (5), Silent Image (5) (all via Scribe Scroll)
Scrolls II Alarm, Feather Fall, Comprehend Languages, Mount, Magic Missile, Protection from Chaos, See Invisibility, Silent Image (all bought and written into spellbook)
Spellbook
0 – Acid Splash, Bleed, Dancing Lights, Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead, Flare, Ghost Sound, Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Ray of Frost, Read Magic, Resistance, Touch of Fatigue;
1st – Alarm, Burning Hands, Comprehend Languages, Enlarge Person, Feather Fall, Grease, Identify, Mage Armor, Mount, Protection from Chaos, Protection from Evil, Silent Image, Summon Monster I;
2nd – See Invisibility;
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Shift (Su): At 1st level, you can teleport to a nearby space as a swift action as if using dimension door. This movement does not provoke an attack of opportunity. You must be able to see the space that you are moving into. You cannot take other creatures with you when you use this ability (except for familiars). You can move 5 feet for every two wizard levels you possess (minimum 5 feet). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
1st Lvl - Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1st Hum - Imp. Init
1st Wiz - Scribe Scroll
3rd Lvl - Augument Summoning
5th Lvl - Superior Summoning
5th Wiz - Metamagic I (Extend)
7th Lvl - Improved Familiar (Azata, Lyrakien)
9th Lvl - Skill Focus (Knowleadge [Arcana])
10th Wiz - Metamagic II (Quicken)
11th Lvl - True Name (11th+)
11th Lore - Toughness
13th Lvl - Spell Penetration
15th Lvl - Spell Perfection
17th Lvl - ?
19th Lvl - ?
Still a work in progress, but much much better.
At Level 11 it goes from Wizard to Loremaster, so I kind'a let Toughness for later. Right now I'm aiming to get extra saving throws from the Secrets, since high level feats are still tricky to me.
Here are some (more) doubts:
1) Inspired by Greatness gives me +1 CL for a single spell. I'm thinking Mage Armor... anyone have a better option?
2) Researching for higher level spells, I recently got sume doubs about Black Tentacles. If I cast it in an area, and a friend steps into it, isn't he targeted by the spell? Or I can make the tentacle auto-fail the grapple on my friends?
3) Back on Black Tentacles, I was thinking this would be a good spell for Spell Perfection.
4) A character with high INT have bonus spells slots for spells. INT 20 means bonus slots: 0/2/1/1/1/1/0/0/0/0 for each spell level. Since I can't cast higher level spells, can I use those slots to memorize lower level spells?
My DM already ruled that I can, I just want to confirm that this is legal.
5) As good as Academae Graduate may seem, DC 15+Spell Level against Fort seems really hard to hit... still a bit unsure about this.
6) Still not sure what I'll get with True Name... optimized suggestions?
nategar05 |
Hello all...thanks for all the help
So, here I am:
** spoiler omitted **...
Firstly:
a. I don't think Loremaster is nearly as good as straight Wizard mechanically. Free spells in your book are pretty darn good, and you miss out on the rest of your bonus feats.
b. You need three metamagic feats to take Spell Perfection. I'd suggest Reach, Persistent, Piercing, or Selective as your third, depending on what type of spell you cast most often. Also, I'd consider taking Quicken a bit later than 10th level. Just using it on a 1st level spell uses up your highest spell level. Though I guess if you go Loremaster you may not have the best high level spells in the first place.
====
1. Mage Armor sounds like a good one. Phantom Steed would also work well.
2. For Black Tentacles, you roll a combat maneuver check: CL + 5. You roll the check once and apply it to everyone in the area of effect. There is no way to exclude allies that I know of.
3. There is no saving throw or spell resistance for Black Tentacles. The only metamagic feat that I can think of that's worth using on it would be Quicken. Persistent, Piercing, and Selective wouldn't apply. At least, Quicken is the only one I can think of that's worth it that's worth getting in the first place. I wouldn't recommend it for Spell Perfection.
I'd actually rate Stinking Cloud higher than Black Tentacles for it. You could Quicken both of them without increasing the spell level, but Spell Perfection would double the bonus for Stinking Cloud from Spell Focus, whereas it'd have no other effect on Black Tentacles.
4-6. Dunno.
Ka'etil Malas'rae |
I personally am a huge fan of preferred spell as well, if you got something you'll want to use all day long...
nategar05 |
Preferred Spell is really good, but it needs Heighten Spell, which isn't as much. Though I guess you could Heighten Grease.
A higher Dex would be great, but expensive. A higher Con would also be great, but I'm not sure it'd be worth taking down his Int for. Grease is a great spell and needs the highest DC it can get. It doesn't matter if most of his spells don't have saves if a few of his best ones do. Besides, having a higher Int also gives an extra bonus 1st level spell right at 1st level.
Domingos Santin |
Firstly:
a. I don't think Loremaster is nearly as good as straight Wizard mechanically. Free spells in your book are pretty darn good, and you miss out on the rest of your bonus feats.
b. You need three metamagic feats to take Spell Perfection. I'd suggest Reach, Persistent, Piercing, or Selective as your third, depending on what type of spell you cast most often. Also, I'd consider taking Quicken a bit later than 10th level. Just using it on a 1st level spell uses up your highest spell level. Though I guess if you go Loremaster you may not have the best high level spells in the first place.
a. I didn't knew that. Damn. Probably have to re-think something now...
I'd actually rate Stinking Cloud higher than Black Tentacles for it. You could Quicken both of them without increasing the spell level, but Spell Perfection would double the bonus for Stinking Cloud from Spell Focus, whereas it'd have no other effect on Black Tentacles.
The problem with Stinking Cloud: it targets Fort.
I'm building this character to play Carrion Crown, so I'm having some problems with spell selection.
Preferred Spell is really good, but it needs Heighten Spell, which isn't as much. Though I guess you could Heighten Grease.
This seems nice...
nategar05 |
If you're worried about Fort saves, Grease, Web, or Glitterdust are other good options. Another thing about Spell Perfection is that it only works if the total modified spell is of a level you can cast. It gives you a free metamagic usage, but you must still be able to cast the spell normally. Because of that, if you want to use it for free Quicken (probably the best use), the rest of the metamagic combined can be no higher than 4th level when you get Spell Perfection at level 15. That means no other metamagic at all on a 4th level spell, like Black Tentacles would be. Getting Spell Perfection on a lower level spell gives you more options as to what metamagic you can put on it.
Possible round at 15th level: Quickened Stinking Cloud + Black Tentacles. Whoever fails their Fort save is having a REALLY bad day.
Possible round at 17th level: Quickened Persistent Stinking Cloud + Black Tentacles. Same as above, but they have to make their save twice. Even good Fort creatures (a lot of them to be fair) can easily botch a save when they have to do it twice.
Assuming you took Spell Focus: Conjuration, that's a base DC of 15 + Int, which isn't too bad for a 3rd level spell. If you take Greater Spell Focus, it's 17 + Int.
To be fair for Black Tentacles, I can't think of any worthwhile metamagic feats to use with it besides Quicken. At least, none that you'd have taken.
=========
As long as we're looking at different options for Spell Perfection, have you looked at Pyrotechnics? It's a 2nd level Transmutation spell, and one of my favorite spells in the entire game. Flaming Sphere + Quickened Pyrotechnics would be even better than the standard combo. In case you don't know the spells, Flaming Sphere does 2d6 fire damage whenever it's in someone's space, Reflex for half. You can move it to another target within 30 ft. as a move action. Pyrotechnics either instantaneously blinds everyone (Will negates) or causes a fog that blocks vision and causes -4 Str / Dex penalty (Fort negates stat penalties) Though it doesn't benefit from Spell Focus like the others would.
ForgottenRider |
Here's an oddball suggestion taken from the UM, look at taking the Arcane Discovery: Opposition Research instead of one of your Wizard bonus feats. this will reduce your effective number of opposition schools by one.
Furthermore, if you chose one of the elemental schools from either the classical 4 (as presented in the APG) or the oriental 5 (as presented in UM) in addition to Opposition Research, you wouldn't even have to worry about having an opposition school.
Personally, I kind of like the Metal school. What can I say, dealing extra dmg against metaline or metal-clad opponents as though I had a free Empower, being able to gain an impromptu armor bonus on a class which can't wear armor, and getting free uses of a limited area shrapnel-based "fireball" all sit pretty well with me.
And I only have to spend one bonus feat to get back all my fire spells, even if I have to wait until 10th lvl to do so. Not that there is any lack of non-fire based dmg spells even if I didn't want to spend the feat. The bonus spells aren't the best, but they're still useful and hey, that's the tradeoff.
Short of that, the Conjuration school (Teleportation sub-school) is an excellent selection, though I would have chosen Enchantment and Divination. Enchantment because the best spells really only work well at lower lvls or if you put a lot into them, and Divination because most GMs rarely have enough info to make the higher lvl spells worth it, and two slots for most of the lower lvl spells will do the job out of combat. As for Read Magic and Detect Magic, they're cantrips, so the slots don't really matter with the whole infinite casting going on.
If your in a rush you can do it at 9th
Wizards spend much of their lives seeking deeper truths, hunting knowledge as if it were life itself. The wizard's power is not necessarily the spells he wields; spells are merely the outward, most visible manifestation of that power. A wizard's true power is in his fierce intelligence, his dedication to his craft, and his ability to peel back the surface truths of reality to understand the fundamental underpinnings of existence. A wizard spends much of his time researching spells, and would rather find an undiscovered library than a room full of gold. A wizard need not be a reclusive bookworm, but he must have a burning curiosity for the unknown. Arcane discoveries are the results of this obsession with magic. A wizard can learn an arcane discovery in place of a regular feat or wizard bonus feat.
Opposition Research: By completing strenuous studies, you have broken through the mental barriers that made it hard for you to prepare spells from one of your opposition schools. Select one wizard opposition school; preparing spells of this school now only requires one spell slot of the appropriate level instead of two, and you no longer have the –4 Spellcraft penalty for crafting items from that school. You must be at least a 9th-level wizard to select this discovery.
Karameikos |
I'm only two modules into Carrion Crown as a summoner, but spells that target touch AC, like acid arrow, are much better choices if you choose offensive spells. Summoning elementals and celestial template monsters have been useful for me. The Smite Evil ability of the celestial template has been key, since we've ruled that Smite Evil allows the summoned monsters to affect incorporeal beings. Spells that target Will seem more useful in the second module. Disrupt undead has been useful and if you don't have a rogue with disable device you'll need to pickup Knock.
Secane |
Playing as a summoner, albeit a Master Summoner, I find Improved Initiative extremely important.
If you can get your summons timing down to 1 standard action, having the first strike with your summon monsters is VERY important. It ties up the enemies with monsters that they have to kill to get you, therefore provides crowd control and helps setting up the battlefield for the fireball/spell that you or a fellow caster can throw into the field.
So if you can... take Improved Initiative ASAP. Maybe swap it with toughness on which to take first.
DaedalusV |
I'm rolling with an Elven Conjurer with necromancy and evocation as opposed schools (I've taken a couple of sub-optimal choices in the name of char concept)
feat choices until now: (traits: reactionary and precocious spellcaster)
1st: improved initiative
3rd: craft wondrous items
5th: spell focus (conjuration)
5th: Augment summoning
He's currently level 6
Planning:
7th: Heighten Spell
9th: Craft Rods
10th: Opposition Research (necromancy)
11th: Preferred Spell (Snapdragon Fireworks)
13th: Metamagic Feat #2 (persistent?)
15th: Metamagic feat #3 (quicken?)
15th: Spell Perfection (Snapdragon Fireworks)
I'll be relying on a Rod of dazing and Heightened Snapdragon Fireworks for some funky and very reliable crowd control
I'm not 100% certain on the viability of the concept though.
A Snapdragon fireworks spell heightened to lvl 5 (CL 9) with a rod of dazing gives 10 + 5 + 1 (spell focus) +1 (trait) + int mod ~ 23 (w/o difficulty) So a DC 23 Reflex save to avoid getting Dazed for 5 rounds.
You get to do that vs any target within long distance as a move action for CL number of rounds.
PSusac |
Deadalus' Snapdragon fireworks idea is solid.
I've been playing around with different conjurer (teleportation) builds, and I've basically come up with 3 ideas:
1) Build a character that focuses everything on preferred spell + spell perfection. This allows you to spontaneously cast one massive save-or-suck effect.
The problem with this build is that it is so feat intensive that this is pretty much all you are good at, so as a one-trick pony, you need a really good trick. This limits you to flesh to stone or one or two other late-game options. This is fine, but this gives you a spell focus that is not conjuration as a prerequisite.
There is no reason not to keep conjuration as a specialization though, for the teleport abilities. It's a darn good school.
2) Build a ray specialist who focuses on enervation. with spell perfection + preferred spell. This is less feat intensive than the above option and lets you fire rays that de-buff in a pretty aggressive manner. There is even a loophole in the rule that lets you cast enervation spontaneously at the cost of one spell slot even if it's an opposition school. It's cheesy but it's RAW.
3) Build a battle-control "God" wizard. This gives you the advantage of versatility. Because of Deadalus' snapdragon fireworks idea this build gives you a SERIOUS debuff in addition to great battlefield control. It also gives you plenty of leeway in regard to your feats. You can pretty much take whatever feats strike your fancy, and be effective.
This build is low on firepower (especially at low levels), but if you want a bag of tricks that is on the long, slow road to godhood, and who will make the GM cry, this is a darn good build.
Some notes on feats:
Extend spell is a MUCH better feat than most people give it credit for. At medium levels this lets' you cast "1 hour/level" spells and have them last into the next day, allowing you to BANK MAGIC. This is very powerful. Collect long duration spells! Also, for "1 Minute/level" spell, this lets you pre-cast spells for the average length of a dungeon crawl. Judicious use of this feat can be really broken.
Craft Wondrous Items is pretty much a must have as a wizard. This is because almost all the gear you want is a wondrous item. Money not spent on gear goes into your spell book, and the wizard's spell book is his most powerful class feature. In point of fact the Blessed book is a wondrous item and is a VERY important item for your character. By reducing the cost of copying spells, you save TONS of money, thus further increasing the amount of spells you can learn. You WANT to make this, because it will reduce the cost of spells to 6.25 gp per spell level! This is a HUGE savings.
Toughness This spell might save your life once during your career. If it does, it's because you screwed up and got in harms way, or the GM was gunning for you. Hit points are a resource you really don't want to use. I'd pick another feat. If you are worrying about losing hit points, the most likely cause will be an area of effect attack. For this reason lightning reflexes is not a bad choice. Still, with stoneskin, false life, resist energy, fly and invisibility/greater invisibility, you should be able to use spells to hold onto those hit points instead. Note that many of these spells have long durations, and so benefit from the extend spell feat, so with planning they won't even cost you a spell slot during the dungeon crawl.
Final note: I've never played a summoner, but given that your spell progression is cut by 1/3 I can't imagine any real benefit other than flavor. Basically I see it as a mele-support class that has a really good bag of tricks. I'm not sure though, I'd have to take a closer look. Still, what class abilities does a summoner have that is better than access to 9th level spells?
master_marshmallow |
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Spell Focus (Conjuration) is a gateway feat that opens up a lot of options, remember that your summons are all in rounds per level, and the more rounds you can get the better off you are, most people I know don't even bother with Augment Summoning early on because your summons only last 1-2 rounds anyway.
Extend Spell is your go-to metamagic feat, take it as soon as you can get away with using it. It doubles the duration of those summons, so now instead of getting 1 round/level, you get 2 rounds per level, meaning that you can get that summon to last 6 rounds by level 3, which is about what you need. A metamagic rod of this is highly recommended, and should only cost you about 3000 gp, which is fairly cheap as metamagic rods go.
Spell Specialization is gold for you. The feat allows you to pick one of the spells from the school you have Spell Focus on, and treat yourself as 2 levels higher when casting it. In other words, 2 extra rounds of summons, or 4 extra rounds of summons with Extend Spell. The best part is that every other level you can switch which spell is your specialized spell which allows you to keep upgrading which summon spell you want to last longer, really this feat will last you your entire character. It might even be worth taking more than once.
Varisian Tattoo or Mage's Tattoo is another feat that requires Spell Focus to take. It increases your CL by one for that school. So in other words, another free round on all of your summon spells.
Augment Summoning and Superior Summoning really don't become that good until later-ish game when you are actually willing to let your summon spell summon more than one thing so that those things are not completely worthless. You want the things you summon to be good enough to merit dipping into a lower level summon spell's list before you start worrying about how many things you summon. And before that, you want to make sure the things you summon last long enough on the battlefield for these feats to matter.
Improved Initiative is one of the most important feats any caster will ever take. Your job is to get the battlefield ready, and your team really shouldn't go before you and then end up in the middle of a battlefield right before you start throwing your area spells, or before you get the chance to throw out a buff like a Haste or something. If you are going to take this feat, take it at level 1.
As far as early game goes, this is the best advice I can give, at later levels things you may consider are Quicken Spell for obvious reasons, and the Spell Penetrations for even more obvious reasons. Other things to look into are Additional Traits in case you want to pick up something for an extra +2 Initiative and/or a magic trait that allows you do something with metamagic feats. Paragon of Speed/Reactionary and Wayang Spell Hunter/Magical Lineage are where most people go with their traits, and they are so good that it might actually be worth a feat if these weren't the traits you went with in the first place.
DaedalusV |
@Psusac, Thanks, the snapdragon fireworks spell is for me a new favourite level 1 spell, I haven't been a player for years, only been sitting on the GM's side of things has really made me miss the fun of being a player.
My character is built after the 3rd mold you mention. Slow boil batttle control, gonnaemaketheDMcry wizard ;)
I agree with your notes on feats although I'm going to nix extend metamagic as a feat.
Take Craft Rod and get a complement of metamagic rods for all the situational metamagic (extend (for buffs) still (for grapples) and silent (for silence/deafness) and a couple of others perhaps)
The +1 lesser rods are dirt cheap.
craft wondrous is just OP, I have been behind the DM screen for ages, have seen alot of players hating on crafting feats. A couple of my regulars have revised their opinions after seeing my little "god" mage.
YMMV
@master marshmellow
Tyvm, good stuffs also :D
I took spell focus (conjuration) and augment summoning @ 5 The same level I took my first summon monster spell. I just didn't want to bother getting an earlier version of summons.
Coincidentally the first time I ever summoned I got 1d4+1 eagles with +2 str and +2 con for at least 7 rounds.. Our GM was flabbergasted when his precious solo encounter ended with me invisibly flying with 5 eagles attacking his ground based beast with magic resistance and my second summon monster spell on the way..
augment summoning and summon monster spells are IMO not really worth it until you hit lvl 5 as a wizard since you have so many lvl 1 and 2 spells you might want more than an extra meat shield
spell specialization + varisian tatoo should "cancel out" the effect of putting a +3 metamagic effect on a spell then?
Spell specialization + tatoo + prefered spell + spell perfection:
(available metamagic: quicken, heighten, persistent, still)
Use a 9nth lvl spell slot spontaneously to cast preferred + perfected lvl 1 spell
Quicken it with perfection for +0 lvl, heighten to lvl 6, add persistent and still (or add any combo of metamagic up to +3)
execute spell
Spell lvl would be 9th?
Or am I just confusing myself too much atm?
(never been an eagle at adding several metamagics on spells.)
master_marshmallow |
The thing about metamagic spells is that they are still cast at their actual level.
I'm not sure what you mean by the whole 'cancel out the +3 metamagic' line.
I also don't know where this 9th level spell stuff is coming from, you shouldn't have to waste a 9th level slot for a lvl 1 spell, like ever.
Unless you are mixing up caster level with spell level, which is why in many groups they have adopted the term "spell circles" over "spell levels."
DaedalusV |
The thing about metamagic spells is that they are still cast at their actual level.
I'm not sure what you mean by the whole 'cancel out the +3 metamagic' line.
I also don't know where this 9th level spell stuff is coming from, you shouldn't have to waste a 9th level slot for a lvl 1 spell, like ever.Unless you are mixing up caster level with spell level, which is why in many groups they have adopted the term "spell circles" over "spell levels."
It's a pretty theoretic 9th level casting I know.
There's several reasons why I would want a lvl 1 spell to count as a higher level spell.
1) Save DCs
2) Globe of invulnerability
3) IIRC Dispel Magic
I fully realize a spell cast with meta magic are cast at their actual level.
Heighten spell <--- This one RAISES a spell's effective level to whatever spell slot you want to use when it comes to spell DCs and other level dependent variables.
Spell Perfection <--- This one let's you apply one metamagic feat on a spell without raising it's level.
Preferred Spell <--- This one lets you spontaneously convert a prepared spell into your preferred spell (you get to apply metamagic on the fly)
So I convert whatever spell slot I want to use into a quickened (+0 effective spell level due to spell perfection) and Heightened version of my preferred/perfected spell.
Now when I reply to you I realize that the tatoo and the other feat doesn't help that trick at all ;)
(I was hoping I could add another virtually "free" +3 metamagic into the mix, but htat's not really what they do)