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Paizo Employee Creative Director

rooboy wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is Iomedae her full name or the name she took upon ascending? If she has more to her name is Iomedae her personal name or her family name?
I've never actually thought about it before, but I'm kind of curious about that too. Cayden just used his name when he ascended, I've always assumed Norgorber is just an alias anyway, but was Iomedae a title or a name or what?

Iomedae isn't a title. It's her actual name.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

eldergod0515 wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Frankly, these days? Movie audiences are SUCH a problem that I don't go see movies in theaters anymore unless its a super-expensive 21-and-over theater that actually enforces the experience with ushers and the like.
Q: There's still theaters with ushers?

Yes. Particularly if you pay more money to go to a theater that actually cares about their paying customer's experience at the movie.

Here's my theater of choice.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

scifan888 wrote:

1) If someone were to cast a True Resurrection spell can a slain demon lord be restored to life?

2) If restored to life, what would happen to an island created by its death in the Midnight Isles?

1) In theory, yes. In practice, I'd say it'd have to be, at minimum, a mythic version of true resurrection.

2) That island would remain, but it would become subject to erosion and would slowly crumble away, and Nocticula would seek out the resurrected demon lord to re-kill it so as to put things back the way she wants them.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Danit wrote:
Whats up with mythic power attack being so much better than mythic deadly aim? Not only does it multiply its damage before a crit but it also makes mythic furious focus near useless.

That's really a question for the designers, but my guess? Because ranged attacks are better in that they prevent foes from retaliating against you in melee. In order to use Power Attack, you have to be right there, able to be melee attacked right back. In order to use Deadly Aim, you can be far away and in most cases this is MUCH safer than being inches away.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Daethor wrote:

Hey James, hope you're well! Questions:

1) Who is your favorite character in Watchmen? I'm partial to Rorschach and Dr. Manhattan myself (which made the ending rather tragic).

2) I am almost caught up with the A Song of Ice and Fire books (I'm about 20 chapters away between the two last books, I'm reading them together) and I'm dreading it. Besides the show, is there any media you would suggest to scratch the itch I have for darker fantasy before the next book is released?

Thank you for your continued dedication to this thread :)

1) Rorschach, of course.

2) Stephen King's "Dark Tower" books are excellent. And Clive Barker's "Imagica" is one of the best dark fantasy stories I've ever read.


Do you ever go onto the Scots English wikipedia just to look at the alternative spellings?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Kajehase wrote:
Do you ever go onto the Scots English wikipedia just to look at the alternative spellings?

Nope.

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is Iomedae her full name or the name she took upon ascending? If she has more to her name is Iomedae her personal name or her family name?
That's an Erik question, since he invented her. But like Galfrey (also an Erik name), I suspect Iomedae doesn't have a last name though.

So for now I'll just put Erik after her name :3


James Jacobs wrote:
Kajehase wrote:
Do you ever go onto the Scots English wikipedia just to look at the alternative spellings?
Nope.

Try it sometime. It's fascinating if you like words.


James Jacobs wrote:
Starsunder wrote:

Hey James.

So huge Planescape: Torment fan. I was wanting to pick your brain on a few characters.

** spoiler omitted **

I believe all of those characters have already been stated up for 3.5 D&D back in Dragon Magazine at some point. In Pathfinder, though...

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks for the response man!

Planescape:Torment:

So Ravel is what I suspected, and how I'd stat her up (Wizard levels and Archmage mythic path).

The Nameless One...would you use mythic tiers or ranks like a monster? Normally I'd say tiers, but was trying to account for his better-than-troll regeneration, specially abilities (speaking with the dead, resurrection of other creatures and himself, etc), and the fact that these abilities carry over to all of his incarnations no matter what path (class) he follows; he's been an Archmage, mighty warrior and thief in the past.

And the Transcendent One is his shed mortality given corporeal form. However, unlike him, it remembers all of his past lives and retains all of their skills.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Starsunder wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Starsunder wrote:

Hey James.

So huge Planescape: Torment fan. I was wanting to pick your brain on a few characters.

** spoiler omitted **

I believe all of those characters have already been stated up for 3.5 D&D back in Dragon Magazine at some point. In Pathfinder, though...

** spoiler omitted **

Thanks for the response man!

** spoiler omitted **

Frankly... the Nameless One is such as unique character that, if I were to stat him up, I'd do so as a unique creature. Probably an outsider.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Do the Empyreal Lords serve the good deities? Or are they closer to partners?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Squeakmaan wrote:
Do the Empyreal Lords serve the good deities? Or are they closer to partners?

Some do, some don't.


what would be the first thing you'd update to pathfinder from lords of madness?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

christos gurd wrote:
what would be the first thing you'd update to pathfinder from lords of madness?

Probably things I can't update because beholders and mind flayers aren't open content, and the aboleths are pretty much fine by me as-is.


Hey James, what happens to the soul of someone who worships a demon lord? Would it depend on the demon lord in question, and if so, I am particularly interested in what happens to followers of Cyth-V'Sug.

Thanks!


Can you apply the Half-fiend/Half-celestial template to creatures that are already outsiders?

Liberty's Edge

James Jacobs wrote:
Personally? I'd rather celebrate the anniversary of the first Pathfinder AP volume, or the anniversary of the Core Rulebook. And we DO have an annual special day where we celebrate and have a party—it's the early summer, when we have a company party to celebrate the founding of Paizo itself. (...) Celebrating "the day we made more money than D&D" seems a little petty and edition-warry to me, I guess.

When you're right, you're right!


If I wanted to use Permanency to give my party of 4 Permanent telepathic bonds, do I need 6 castings to cover everyone? If not, how many?

Silver Crusade

In what circumstances would you say a person could play a follower of Szuriel in a non evil group/adventure?


James Jacobs wrote:
Demonskunk wrote:

Hey, James Jacobs. We just picked up Ultimate Campaign and something sort of... doesn't make sense.

There's a random event that causes a tax man to show up at your place, but absalom is listed as not having a property tax...

That book is world neutral. Some of the events, therefore, might need adjustments when you use them in a game setting. You've found one such example. If you roll up a tax man event and you're in a city where there's no property taxes, change it to a different type of tax or, even easier, just re-roll.

Ah, ok, nice to know, thanks!


Rysky wrote:
In what circumstances would you say a person could play a follower of Szuriel in a non evil group/adventure?

Heh. Probably only in circumstances where the party is actively seeking to start a war or otherwise engage in an activity that's going to result in an extremely high body count.

Would be fair to say that in any given war, Szuriel's interest is in making sure that every side is the losing side? I.e., maximizing casualties, civilian and otherwise, on all sides?

Are there any APs where Szuriel would actually want to see the BBEG lose?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Adam147 wrote:

Hey James, what happens to the soul of someone who worships a demon lord? Would it depend on the demon lord in question, and if so, I am particularly interested in what happens to followers of Cyth-V'Sug.

Thanks!

If that worshiper succeeded in impressing the demon lord, it soon becomes a demon after serving a time in the Abyss as a larva. If that worshiper failed to impress the demon lord, they become a larva and probably get eaten or stepped on eventually. Or worse. If THEY survive long enough, they might become a demon anyway.

Followers of Cyth-V'sug probably get absorbed into the walls of his realm quite a lot and become fungus demon monsters.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Axial wrote:
Can you apply the Half-fiend/Half-celestial template to creatures that are already outsiders?

Yes.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tels wrote:
If I wanted to use Permanency to give my party of 4 Permanent telepathic bonds, do I need 6 castings to cover everyone? If not, how many?

As detailed in the last paragraph of telepathic bond, one casting of permanency can make permanent one link between 2 targets.

So if you want to have a link to the other 3 people in your group between you and them... you'd need 3 permanency spells. You can't link two other people without you being one of the two.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Rysky wrote:
In what circumstances would you say a person could play a follower of Szuriel in a non evil group/adventure?

Honestly? Probably none.

That's my tastes though. I prefer PCs in my group to not worship evil deities ever at all, UNLESS the group is evil on purpose.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Zhangar wrote:

Would be fair to say that in any given war, Szuriel's interest is in making sure that every side is the losing side? I.e., maximizing casualties, civilian and otherwise, on all sides?

Are there any APs where Szuriel would actually want to see the BBEG lose?

Yes. Szuriel is a fan of war... and the only part about both sides losing that bums her out is the fact that then there's no warfare.

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
Zhangar wrote:

Would be fair to say that in any given war, Szuriel's interest is in making sure that every side is the losing side? I.e., maximizing casualties, civilian and otherwise, on all sides?

Are there any APs where Szuriel would actually want to see the BBEG lose?

Yes. Szuriel is a fan of war... and the only part about both sides losing that bums her out is the fact that then there's no warfare.

What are some ways you could differentiate her and Gorum? The same for their followers?


James Jacobs wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
what would be the first thing you'd update to pathfinder from lords of madness?
Probably things I can't update because beholders and mind flayers aren't open content, and the aboleths are pretty much fine by me as-is.

yeah, thats too bad. how about this, over all the work you have done on dnd (that hasn't been converted yet) which thing would you convert next (just for the sake of interest, lets pretend all of it is ogl).


James Jacobs wrote:
Tels wrote:
If I wanted to use Permanency to give my party of 4 Permanent telepathic bonds, do I need 6 castings to cover everyone? If not, how many?

As detailed in the last paragraph of telepathic bond, one casting of permanency can make permanent one link between 2 targets.

So if you want to have a link to the other 3 people in your group between you and them... you'd need 3 permanency spells. You can't link two other people without you being one of the two.

Does this result in a 'relay' method of communication, or would all 4 be able to communicate interchangeably?

I'm just wondering if it would be a case of something like:

A is connected to B, B is connected to C and C is connected to D. In order for A to talk to D, he has to send a message through B and C. Either that or A is connected to B, C and D, and in order for B, C or D to talk to each other they must relay through A.

Or you could do the following with multiple castings:

A bonded to B, A bonded to C, A bonded to D
B bonded to C, B bonded to D
C bonded to D

6 separate castings of Permanency would allow all 4 people to communicate without having to relay messages, a method that would break down if even one of them were unconscious.

Dark Archive

Tels wrote:

Does this result in a 'relay' method of communication, or would all 4 be able to communicate interchangeably?

I'm just wondering if it would be a case of something like:

A is connected to B, B is connected to C and C is connected to D. In order for A to talk to D, he has to send a message through B and C. Either that or A is connected to B, C and D, and in order for B, C or D to talk to each other they must relay through A.

Or you could do the following with multiple castings:

A bonded to B, A bonded to C, A bonded to D
B bonded to C, B bonded to D
C bonded to D

6 separate castings of Permanency would allow all 4 people to communicate without having to relay messages, a method that would break down if even one of them were unconscious.

I believe the spell intends for it to be two castings in that instance. Permanency is only changing the duration, the effect of the spell is still

SRD wrote:
You forge a telepathic bond among yourself and a number of willing creatures, each of which must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher. Each creature included in the link is linked to all the others.


James Jacobs wrote:
rooboy wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is Iomedae her full name or the name she took upon ascending? If she has more to her name is Iomedae her personal name or her family name?
I've never actually thought about it before, but I'm kind of curious about that too. Cayden just used his name when he ascended, I've always assumed Norgorber is just an alias anyway, but was Iomedae a title or a name or what?
Iomedae isn't a title. It's her actual name.

Actually, is Cayden Cailean a firstname lastname deal, or a first name and title, or a two-part name or what? Like, was his father Bob Cailean or something? If so, are there any other Caileans around still?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Rysky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Zhangar wrote:

Would be fair to say that in any given war, Szuriel's interest is in making sure that every side is the losing side? I.e., maximizing casualties, civilian and otherwise, on all sides?

Are there any APs where Szuriel would actually want to see the BBEG lose?

Yes. Szuriel is a fan of war... and the only part about both sides losing that bums her out is the fact that then there's no warfare.
What are some ways you could differentiate her and Gorum? The same for their followers?

There's lots of ways, but the main one is that she promotes and causes and supports war because she wants everyone in the war to die.

Gorum wants the glory and wants to revel in the skill of tactics and combat and marvel in the craftsmanship of weapons and armor.

Gorum wants a winner. Szuriel doesn't care if anyone wins.

When a warrior of Gorum dies in a war, he is brought to Gorum's side for a reward in the afterlife. Valkyrie style.

When a warrior of Szuriel dies in a war, he is brought to Abaddon to be eaten.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

christos gurd wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
christos gurd wrote:
what would be the first thing you'd update to pathfinder from lords of madness?
Probably things I can't update because beholders and mind flayers aren't open content, and the aboleths are pretty much fine by me as-is.
yeah, thats too bad. how about this, over all the work you have done on dnd (that hasn't been converted yet) which thing would you convert next (just for the sake of interest, lets pretend all of it is ogl).

Hmmmmm... Probably some of the monsters from Fiendish Codex I. Obox-ob would be first.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tels wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Tels wrote:
If I wanted to use Permanency to give my party of 4 Permanent telepathic bonds, do I need 6 castings to cover everyone? If not, how many?

As detailed in the last paragraph of telepathic bond, one casting of permanency can make permanent one link between 2 targets.

So if you want to have a link to the other 3 people in your group between you and them... you'd need 3 permanency spells. You can't link two other people without you being one of the two.

Does this result in a 'relay' method of communication, or would all 4 be able to communicate interchangeably?

I'm just wondering if it would be a case of something like:

A is connected to B, B is connected to C and C is connected to D. In order for A to talk to D, he has to send a message through B and C. Either that or A is connected to B, C and D, and in order for B, C or D to talk to each other they must relay through A.

Or you could do the following with multiple castings:

A bonded to B, A bonded to C, A bonded to D
B bonded to C, B bonded to D
C bonded to D

6 separate castings of Permanency would allow all 4 people to communicate without having to relay messages, a method that would break down if even one of them were unconscious.

It's a relay. It's not instantaneous cross-communication. It's not super efficient and if I were the GM, I'd probably limit the conversations between players to one pair (the caster and another) per round at a time to model that fact.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

The Golux wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
rooboy wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is Iomedae her full name or the name she took upon ascending? If she has more to her name is Iomedae her personal name or her family name?
I've never actually thought about it before, but I'm kind of curious about that too. Cayden just used his name when he ascended, I've always assumed Norgorber is just an alias anyway, but was Iomedae a title or a name or what?
Iomedae isn't a title. It's her actual name.
Actually, is Cayden Cailean a firstname lastname deal, or a first name and title, or a two-part name or what? Like, was his father Bob Cailean or something? If so, are there any other Caileans around still?

First name, last name. There are still Caileans around.


James Jacobs wrote:
The Golux wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
rooboy wrote:
Rysky wrote:
Is Iomedae her full name or the name she took upon ascending? If she has more to her name is Iomedae her personal name or her family name?
I've never actually thought about it before, but I'm kind of curious about that too. Cayden just used his name when he ascended, I've always assumed Norgorber is just an alias anyway, but was Iomedae a title or a name or what?
Iomedae isn't a title. It's her actual name.
Actually, is Cayden Cailean a firstname lastname deal, or a first name and title, or a two-part name or what? Like, was his father Bob Cailean or something? If so, are there any other Caileans around still?
First name, last name. There are still Caileans around.

Really? Oh god, that's some high expectations to live up to. Could you imagine being the brother, or the offspring of Cayden? Even an descendant many generations removed would still feel the shadow of their ancestor.

Would you say the Cailean bloodline is probably well protected by the church of Cayden Cailean? Do you think they have a higher probability to produce adventurers and/or Mythic individuals?

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Tels wrote:

Really? Oh god, that's some high expectations to live up to. Could you imagine being the brother, or the offspring of Cayden? Even an descendant many generations removed would still feel the shadow of their ancestor.

Would you say the Cailean bloodline is probably well protected by the church of Cayden Cailean? Do you think they have a higher probability to produce adventurers and/or Mythic individuals?

It's worth noting that his brothers and sisters and parents are all now long dead. Remember, he was human, and he ascended a long time ago...

His family probably is protected by the church, but I wouldn't say they're any more likely to produce mythic characters. Adventurers though? That's a different story!

Silver Crusade

James Jacobs wrote:
Rysky wrote:
James Jacobs wrote:
Zhangar wrote:

Would be fair to say that in any given war, Szuriel's interest is in making sure that every side is the losing side? I.e., maximizing casualties, civilian and otherwise, on all sides?

Are there any APs where Szuriel would actually want to see the BBEG lose?

Yes. Szuriel is a fan of war... and the only part about both sides losing that bums her out is the fact that then there's no warfare.
What are some ways you could differentiate her and Gorum? The same for their followers?

There's lots of ways, but the main one is that she promotes and causes and supports war because she wants everyone in the war to die.

Gorum wants the glory and wants to revel in the skill of tactics and combat and marvel in the craftsmanship of weapons and armor.

Gorum wants a winner. Szuriel doesn't care if anyone wins.

When a warrior of Gorum dies in a war, he is brought to Gorum's side for a reward in the afterlife. Valkyrie style.

So basically:

Gorum: I like war cause I like fighting.

Szuriel: I like war cause I like killing.

James Jacobs wrote:
When a warrior of Szuriel dies in a war, he is brought to Abaddon to be eaten.

We like to call it Round 2.

:3


Spellcaster starts to cast a spell. VS. How easy is it to tell that it's a spell and not just a guy who is talking and waving his arms around?

Dark Archive

What does the Church of Asmodeus in Cheliax think of the Worldwound?


James Jacobs wrote:
Tels wrote:

Really? Oh god, that's some high expectations to live up to. Could you imagine being the brother, or the offspring of Cayden? Even an descendant many generations removed would still feel the shadow of their ancestor.

Would you say the Cailean bloodline is probably well protected by the church of Cayden Cailean? Do you think they have a higher probability to produce adventurers and/or Mythic individuals?

It's worth noting that his brothers and sisters and parents are all now long dead. Remember, he was human, and he ascended a long time ago...

His family probably is protected by the church, but I wouldn't say they're any more likely to produce mythic characters. Adventurers though? That's a different story!

I was just trying to picture his family members around the time when he ascended.

Why can't you be like your uncle Cayden? He may have been a drunk, but he became a God!

One of those 'big shoes to fill' kind of things. Any siblings he had would probably have no small amount of 'Mother loved him best' feelings. Family reunions would be the worst. You got one brother who is a successful merchant, another who is a powerful wizard, and then Cayden shows up and is all like, "So I became a God, what'd you guys do?"


Dear Mr. James Jacobs:

I have searched your threads for "touch attacks" and found 4 pages of potential answers, but none of them answered this particular question about holding a touch attack charge.

Let's assume a druid with the natural spell feat casts Frostbite while in a large-cat form just prior to a melee fight. The druid subsequently charges the enemy and attacks with bite and claws via pounce.

Okay, now the big question facing our group: does the Frostbite spell discharge every time the druid touches the ground with his feet? One view is that for simplicity reasons, it would just discharge because the rule on holding a charge says if you touch anything while holding it it goes off, and touching the ground qualifies. The other view is that the claws retract like any other cat, and can run without touching the ground with claws and it's the claws that deliver the touch attack, not the paw.

Still, making matters worse, what about in the form of a horse where the hooves are the natural attacks? Could the horse form hold the charge? Clearly the hooves are touching the ground when they move prior to delivering an attack. I understand the rules were written mostly for humanoids using their hands as touch attacks, but it gets messy when taking that rule and applying it to creatures.

Lastly, could you modify the touch attack so that it only works with a bite attack (or some other attack that doesn't touch the ground) as a workaround?

Thanks so much for answering this question.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Rysky wrote:

So basically:

Gorum: I like war cause I like fighting.

Szuriel: I like war cause I like killing.

Close. More accurately...

Gorum: I like war cause I like fighting.

Szuriel: I like war cause I like watching and feeling mortals die.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

DrDeth wrote:
Spellcaster starts to cast a spell. VS. How easy is it to tell that it's a spell and not just a guy who is talking and waving his arms around?

Depends on your Bluff check if you're waving your arms around and trying to fake it.

Most spell casting comes with obvious magical side effects though, like glowing lights or shimmering runes or the like... It's pretty obvious when someone casts a spell unless they use a feat or class ability or something that lets them hide or obscure the act.

Paizo Employee Creative Director

ulgulanoth wrote:
What does the Church of Asmodeus in Cheliax think of the Worldwound?

Pretty much "not my problem, but damn it's nice that it distracted Iomedae's faith from what we're doing here—as long as those crusaders are up there, it's SO MUCH easier to do our thing down here... I hope the Worldwound NEVER closes!"

Paizo Employee Creative Director

Keanan Garnet-Gold wrote:

Dear Mr. James Jacobs:

I have searched your threads for "touch attacks" and found 4 pages of potential answers, but none of them answered this particular question about holding a touch attack charge.

Let's assume a druid with the natural spell feat casts Frostbite while in a large-cat form just prior to a melee fight. The druid subsequently charges the enemy and attacks with bite and claws via pounce.

Okay, now the big question facing our group: does the Frostbite spell discharge every time the druid touches the ground with his feet? One view is that for simplicity reasons, it would just discharge because the rule on holding a charge says if you touch anything while holding it it goes off, and touching the ground qualifies. The other view is that the claws retract like any other cat, and can run without touching the ground with claws and it's the claws that deliver the touch attack, not the paw.

Still, making matters worse, what about in the form of a horse where the hooves are the natural attacks? Could the horse form hold the charge? Clearly the hooves are touching the ground when they move prior to delivering an attack. I understand the rules were written mostly for humanoids using their hands as touch attacks, but it gets messy when taking that rule and applying it to creatures.

Lastly, could you modify the touch attack so that it only works with a bite attack (or some other attack that doesn't touch the ground) as a workaround?

Thanks so much for answering this question.

Where's frostbite from?

Barring my reading the spell to see the details, generally a spell like, say, chill touch, that sticks around for multiple rounds but that requires a touch/attack to trigger, you don't get to make multiple touches/attacks to trigger in a round just because you happen to have multiple attacks. You can either make your full suite of attacks OR you can deliver that one per round spell effect via a touch.


James Jacobs wrote:
Keanan Garnet-Gold wrote:

Dear Mr. James Jacobs:

I have searched your threads for "touch attacks" and found 4 pages of potential answers, but none of them answered this particular question about holding a touch attack charge.

Let's assume a druid with the natural spell feat casts Frostbite while in a large-cat form just prior to a melee fight. The druid subsequently charges the enemy and attacks with bite and claws via pounce.

Okay, now the big question facing our group: does the Frostbite spell discharge every time the druid touches the ground with his feet? One view is that for simplicity reasons, it would just discharge because the rule on holding a charge says if you touch anything while holding it it goes off, and touching the ground qualifies. The other view is that the claws retract like any other cat, and can run without touching the ground with claws and it's the claws that deliver the touch attack, not the paw.

Still, making matters worse, what about in the form of a horse where the hooves are the natural attacks? Could the horse form hold the charge? Clearly the hooves are touching the ground when they move prior to delivering an attack. I understand the rules were written mostly for humanoids using their hands as touch attacks, but it gets messy when taking that rule and applying it to creatures.

Lastly, could you modify the touch attack so that it only works with a bite attack (or some other attack that doesn't touch the ground) as a workaround?

Thanks so much for answering this question.

Where's frostbite from?

Barring my reading the spell to see the details, generally a spell like, say, chill touch, that sticks around for multiple rounds but that requires a touch/attack to trigger, you don't get to make multiple touches/attacks to trigger in a round just because you happen to have multiple attacks. You can either make your full suite of attacks OR you can deliver that one per round spell effect via a touch.

Frostbite is from Ultimate Magic. It's worth noting that neither Frostbite or Chill Touch have a once per round limitation; rather, they can be used once per level. The implication is that if you have 4 uses of Chill Touch, and 4 attacks on a full attack, you could potentially use up all of your Chill Touches with those 4 attacks. Same with Frostbite.


James Jacobs wrote:
Keanan Garnet-Gold wrote:

Dear Mr. James Jacobs:

I have searched your threads for "touch attacks" and found 4 pages of potential answers, but none of them answered this particular question about holding a touch attack charge.

Let's assume a druid with the natural spell feat casts Frostbite while in a large-cat form just prior to a melee fight. The druid subsequently charges the enemy and attacks with bite and claws via pounce.

Okay, now the big question facing our group: does the Frostbite spell discharge every time the druid touches the ground with his feet? One view is that for simplicity reasons, it would just discharge because the rule on holding a charge says if you touch anything while holding it it goes off, and touching the ground qualifies. The other view is that the claws retract like any other cat, and can run without touching the ground with claws and it's the claws that deliver the touch attack, not the paw.

Still, making matters worse, what about in the form of a horse where the hooves are the natural attacks? Could the horse form hold the charge? Clearly the hooves are touching the ground when they move prior to delivering an attack. I understand the rules were written mostly for humanoids using their hands as touch attacks, but it gets messy when taking that rule and applying it to creatures.

Lastly, could you modify the touch attack so that it only works with a bite attack (or some other attack that doesn't touch the ground) as a workaround?

Thanks so much for answering this question.

Where's frostbite from?

Barring my reading the spell to see the details, generally a spell like, say, chill touch, that sticks around for multiple rounds but that requires a touch/attack to trigger, you don't get to make multiple touches/attacks to trigger in a round just because you happen to have multiple attacks. You can either make your full suite of attacks OR you can deliver that one per round spell effect via a touch.

Frostbite: page 221 from the Ultimate Magic book.

But anyway it's essentially the same thing, but would the spell trigger because you touch the ground with something that normally would deliver the touch attack? In my example of having holding a touch attack in the form of a horse, where the hoof would be a natural attack, would that set off the spell trigger? Might sound crazy question, but from the PRD on holding the charge: "If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges."

So, the problem is if the creature touches the ground with a hoof or a claw while moving to attack the target and holding a charge for a touch attack, does the fact that the claw/hoof hits the ground count as touching anything, thereby discharging the effect?

As crazy as that question sounds, I've found lots of people who insist touching the ground causes the touch spell to discharge, and it just seems so strange to the spirit of the rule/spell.


Or make it like a monk using his barefoot to deliver a kick, which also delivers a touch attack. If he's holding the charge on his foot, and walks on the ground prior to kicking, would the touch attack go off?

The rules on holding a charge seems written for using your hands, and the hands aren't hitting things unintentionally normally. But with feet, or hooves, or cat claws, you have to walk and is that going to set it off?

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