Hello all, just have a question about my magus in a game. I am playing a 5th level human fighter 3/ magus 2 and just got the ability to spell strike. In the game there was a large creature we were fighting. In my excitement to try out the spell strike (as it is my first time to play a magus and the first in the group) I did the following. Since I was engaged with the large creature I stated I was doing spell combat (so I can attack and cast a spell) and spell strike so I can deliver the spell via my scimitar.
Rd 1 I rolled my attack (19), potential crit; rolled confirm (19) on crit. Since I have the dancing dervish feat I did 1D6+5 twice
Still Rd 1 I made an attack to deliver my shocking grasp spell. Scored a hit (non- crit) and rolled damage 1d6+5 (for the scimitar) and 2d6 for the spell. Total 5D6+15... Dm stated that this was OP (over-powered).
Now the one thing I did not do is that since I was in melee combat that I should have rolled a concentration check to avoid an attack of opportunity when I used spell strike to cast and deliver the spell. I know that I could have cast it and then moved or I could have taken a 5ft step... but I was engaged and stayed that way.
So I guess my questions are; did I do this correctly? Is this to OP?, should I have rolled a concentration check to avoid the AoO against me?
Thanks all for any advise on this.
I always played Magus where to pull off spell strike you always have to do a concentration check as you are in melee combat and under pressure. Casting a spell always provokes AoO unless you are fighting defensively, you should have provoked an AoO for casting shocking grasp and if you got hit, you would have to roll a concentration check to get past a DC of 10+damage dealt+spell level. After that you would have to make the scimitar attack for spell combat to see if you landed the shocking grasp. So it looks like you skipped a couple of steps. You could also choose to fight defensively, take the -6 on the attack with the 2+ AC while also avoiding the AoE but having to get past a DC of 15+2x the spell level. If you fail the roll to get past his AC, but make the roll get past his touch, I think you should still count that as a hit for shocking grasp, but a miss for the scimitar. That last part isn't really written in the rules, but I figure that makes sense and we just roleplay it that you nicked the enemies armor, but were still able to at least touch him. Also, if you are able to cast shocking grasp and miss, you can still hold the charge for until you hit which will prevent you from having to cast it again.
Malusiocus, you're combining two different defensive abilities.
Fighting defensively doesn't prevent AoO for spellcasting, since normally you can't combine fighting with spellcasting. It just grants a bonus to AC for a penalty to attack. You don't need this portion for spell combat.
Casting defensively is done when in a threatened area, and you have the DC correct. for shocking grasp, dc17 concentration check, which is your level+int bonus +traits/feats that apply.
Night Shade:
As you were already engaged, you chose to attack with spell combat. You make your melee attack at -2, then should have made a concentration check to avoid provoking the AoO. On succeeding, you make the second attack at -2 again, but if you hit, this time it does both weapon and spell damage.
It is a normal attack, not a touch attack though. That's the price we pay for getting weapon damage and crit range via spellstrike.
If you had failed the concentration check, then you'd lose the spell and the second attack that went with it, but still take the penalty on the other attack.
You are correct good sir. Thanks for the correction ^^.
Malusiocus, you're combining two different defensive abilities.
Fighting defensively doesn't prevent AoO for spellcasting, since normally you can't combine fighting with spellcasting. It just grants a bonus to AC for a penalty to attack. You don't need this portion for spell combat.
Casting defensively is done when in a threatened area, and you have the DC correct. for shocking grasp, dc17 concentration check, which is your level+int bonus +traits/feats that apply.
Night Shade:
As you were already engaged, you chose to attack with spell combat. You make your melee attack at -2, then should have made a concentration check to avoid provoking the AoO. On succeeding, you make the second attack at -2 again, but if you hit, this time it does both weapon and spell damage.
It is a normal attack, not a touch attack though. That's the price we pay for getting weapon damage and crit range via spellstrike.If you had failed the concentration check, then you'd lose the spell and the second attack that went with it, but still take the penalty on the other attack.
Couldn't you also cast the spell first and deliver two strikes with Shocking Grasp that round? This would be the only round where the Magus would have this "burst" damage - But you're 3/4 BAB and what d8 HP?
Not a problem. I've learned a lot with my tiefling hexcrafter magus working through CotCT. Lvl 12 now, and having a blast.
I started off with a +2 concentration trait, then took combat casting after an unfortunate incident at level 2 or 4. Now, I don't need to roll any concentration checks for lvl 4 spells or lower DC15+4+4 is 23.. Concentration is 12 from level, 4 from int, 2 from trait, 4 for casting defensively gets me to 22, and the improved spell combat gets me to 24. VERY handy.
Necrovox, Spellstrike and Spell Combat are two seperate things. His Example did not use spell combat.
To the op it looks like you are doing it all correctly except for the need to cast defensively.
You can probly also point out to your DM a fighter at your level will do 2d6+15 every round.
though im curious why the damage was 5d6+15 if your normal scimitar attack is 1d6+5 where did the other +10 come from?
Necrovox, Spellstrike and Spell Combat are two seperate things. His Example did not use spell combat.
To the op it looks like you are doing it all correctly except for the need to cast defensively.
You can probly also point out to your DM a fighter at your level will do 2d6+15 every round.
though im curious why the damage was 5d6+15 if your normal scimitar attack is 1d6+5 where did the other +10 come from?
Because I confirmed a crit roll, thus 2d6+10 or (1d6+5)+(1d6+5) from the sword attack and then the free attack for casting and delivering a spell via spell strike 1d6+5 for weapon and 2d6 for spell. This gives me a total of 5D6+15.
Ok to make sure I understand this correctly, I can Cast Defensively while engaged with an opponent and this will negate the AoO. I have to make a concentration check vs a DC of 15= spell level x 2. So DC 17 = Lvl 1, DC 19 for lvl 2, DC 21 for lvl 3, etc. As to the concentration check I roll a D20 +2 (Magus lvl) +3 (Stat mod). Hmm kind of low, guess I should invest in combat casting.
Thanks for clearing this up :-)
Oh one more thing, if the opponent already took an attack of opportunity, will they still be able to take another AoO when I cast a spell (assuming they do not have combat reflexes and I am engaged in melee)?
Hmm kind of low, guess I should invest in combat casting.
Sort of. Your spell levels go up slower than your spells, and your intellect is bound to be risen at a few points in your career. So your concentration scales faster than the DC and eventually surpasses it so you make it on a one. You might consider retraining it later if you do take it.
Oh one more thing, if the opponent already took an attack of opportunity, will they still be able to take another AoO when I cast a spell
Without combat reflexes they are limited to one AoO. So your rogue friend(and anyone else) can run circles around them and they can't do a thing after wasting their one AoO on you.
You might want to put the charge on the blade then attack btw. That way every attack has a chance to hit them. If you miss every attack in your full attack you still hold the charge for the next turn too, though you would getting your single free attack for casting a touch spell. If you miss you still hold the charge! Important.
Last thing. 5D6 isn't really that much. A normal dervish dancer magus would get 5D6 off from his shocking grasp on its own. If he put the charge on the blade then attacked and crit it would've been 10D6 from the shocking grasp!
As you were already engaged, you chose to attack with spell combat. You make your melee attack at -2, then should have made a concentration check to avoid provoking the AoO. On succeeding, you make the second attack at -2 again, but if you hit, this time it does both weapon and spell damage.
It is a normal attack, not a touch attack though. That's the price we pay for getting weapon damage and crit range via spellstrike.If you had failed the concentration check, then you'd lose the spell and the second attack that went with it, but still take the penalty on the other attack.
- Just to clearify. If you cast defensivelyyou DON'T provoke AoO. But it's hard - and if you fail the concentration check you loose the spell.
in 3.5 a failed concentration check would provoke a AoO and if that hit you would have to make an other concentration check.In pathfinder you don't provoke AoO when casting on the defensive
5d6+15 in one round at 5th level is not really OP, especially if it relies on having a crit in the mix... a straight fighter with power attack and a falchion should be at around 2d4+15 with no buffs (and not counting any weapon enchant)- if he crits (with the same crit range as your scimitar) thats 4d4+30 (40 average), noticably more than your 5d6+15 (32.5 average) and he doesn't need any concentration checks or to use up a limited resource like spells.
edit: a 2hand fighter 3/barb 1/rage chemist 1 with a greatsword (using rage and mutagen) would be at 2d6+26 (average 33) without getting a crit! (4d6+52 on a crit)
Anyway, a full magus with 18 Str can get 6d6+5 (26 avg) [magus has arcane pool, wich he's supposed to use to enanche is weapon] with a shocking grasp, and a 12d6+10 (52 avg on a crit). Or, he can get to frostbite to a more reliable 2d6+10 without crit. Anyway, a straight magus can do a lot of damage, but it's far from the power of somme more melee focused fighter.
Hmm kind of low, guess I should invest in combat casting.
Don't.
If he casts this spell defensively, he can decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls, up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount as a circumstance bonus on his concentration check.