Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of the Beast (PFRPG)

Okay, I'm confused now. According to the book, Kitsune have digitigrade legs, but looking at the cover, the kitsune sorceress doesn't have digitigrade legs. So my question is which description of the kitsune is correct: the art on the cover or the description that is in the book?

Curse of Befouled Fortune is a really nasty spell that curses the target with bad luck. They cannot benefit from luck bonuses, rerolls, multiple rolls where they take the best result, or any ability that lets them set the result of a d20 roll to a given number (so they cannot take 10 or take 20). Once per turn when they would succeed on a roll, they must roll twice and take the lower result.

Yikes, Pugwampi's Grace on crack!

Okay, I'm confused now. According to the book, Kitsune have digitigrade legs, but looking at the cover, the kitsune sorceress doesn't have digitigrade legs. So my question is which description of the kitsune is correct: the art on the cover or the description that is in the book?

Simply varies from Kitsune to Kitsune?

Okay, I'm confused now. According to the book, Kitsune have digitigrade legs, but looking at the cover, the kitsune sorceress doesn't have digitigrade legs. So my question is which description of the kitsune is correct: the art on the cover or the description that is in the book?

So when I pitched that section to Mark, I had a short explanation as to why I specifically noted digitigrade. It looked something like this:

In my opinion, nonhuman shapeshifters that change into humans need to have distinctly non-human elements in their true forms to make shapeshifting meaningful. Minor alterations (like what the skinwalkers have) sort of cheapens the shapeshifter aspect. This works for skinwalkers because they’re implied to be part human; they go from human-like to monstrous. But if we apply skinwalker logic to all shapeshifters, then we cheapen the skinwalker. As such, I feel that stark differences between human form and kitsune form is crucial to the race.

Ultimately, its up to each player / GM to work together to decide for their campaign setting / version of Golarion what each race ultimately looks and acts like—we provide guidelines.

For extra fun, here's a piece of my "BoB research.dox" on this very topic!

SCKnightHero1 wrote:

Okay, I'm confused now. According to the book, Kitsune have digitigrade legs, but looking at the cover, the kitsune sorceress doesn't have digitigrade legs. So my question is which description of the kitsune is correct: the art on the cover or the description that is in the book?

So when I pitched that section to Mark, I had a short explanation as to why I specifically noted digitigrade. It looked something like this:

Alex Augunas wrote:

In my opinion, nonhuman shapeshidters that change into humans need to have distinctly non-human elements in their true forms to make shapeshifting meaningful. Minor alterations (like what the skinwalkers have) sort of cheapens the shapeshifter aspect. This works for skinwalkers because they’re implied to be part human; they go from human-like to monstrous. But if we apply skinwalker logic to all shapeshifters, then we cheapen the skinwalker. As such, I feel that stark differences between human form and kitsune form is crucial to the race.

Ultimately, its up to each player / GM to work together to decide for their campaign setting / version of Golarion what each race ultimately looks and acts like—we provide guidelines.

For extra fun, here's a piece of my "BoB research.dox" on this very topic!

** spoiler omitted **

Unknown:
— Dragon Empires Gazetteer (The leg...

Ah! That makes sense actually. I actually enjoyed this book and I really need to write a review of it. Also, I do wish there was a Deity spotlight on the kitsune goddess.

I remember specifically sending a reference for what digitigrade legs looked like along with the art brief for the book for just this very reason. In the end, not every artist is going to follow every detail of every art order, and for complex and expensive content like covers, we sometimes have to accept things that are slightly off model because of the cost and time implications of demanding revisions.

That text is in the book because, like Alex indicated, it made sense to include for a number of reasons, and so that we had a definitive canon source stating what type of legs they have. That isn't to say that we won't have off-model kitsune art in future products, but it does mean that when it shows up, players who feel strongly about the issue know that it's an error or artistic license rather than a change in the race's official flavor.

I remember specifically sending a reference for what digitigrade legs looked like along with the art brief for the book for just this very reason. In the end, not every artist is going to follow every detail of every art order, and for complex and expensive content like covers, we sometimes have to accept things that are slightly off model because of the cost and time implications of demanding revisions.

That text is in the book because, like Alex indicated, it made sense to include for a number of reasons, and so that we had a definitive canon source stating what type of legs they have. That isn't to say that we won't have off-model kitsune art in future products, but it does mean that when it shows up, players who feel strongly about the issue know that it's an error or artistic license rather than a change in the race's official flavor.

This is why you're the best, Mark. <3

Great book, though I am a bit sad for the beast races that got left out, since we're not likely to see anything similar to this for quite a while.

So when I pitched that section to Mark, I had a short explanation as to why I specifically noted digitigrade. It looked something like this:

Well, I'd argue that skinwalkers are kind of self cheapening for how simultaneously minimalistic and weird their 'hybrid' forms tend to look (the crocodile skinwalker in blood of the moon is essentially a human with sharp teeth and an ugly rash), but that's another topic I guess.

Ordered, along with Isles, and a mini (not related to the book, just a good looking mini)

plz info on monk options or at least point to towards somewhere i can get the PDF by paying with american express <3

Well, I'd argue that skinwalkers are kind of self cheapening for how simultaneously minimalistic and weird their 'hybrid' forms tend to look (the crocodile skinwalker in blood of the moon is essentially a human with sharp teeth and an ugly rash), but that's another topic I guess.

I actually really like skinwalkers—I think they're cool and they serve sort of the "other side of the coin" to the kitsune. Kitsune are not-humans that pretend to be human while skinwalkers are essentially humans with a secret.

Personally, I've always seen skinwalkers as homages to old-style werewolf movies like "Wolfman" or "The Howling." 'Human with patches of fur and a rash' is sort of the best Hollywood could do with shapechanging for a long time, and while modern werewolf design is usually much more anthropomorphisized (see lycanthropes in Bestiaries 1 and 2), having an option in-game that serves as "the classics" is a smart move, in my opinion.

That text is in the book because, like Alex indicated, it made sense to include for a number of reasons, and so that we had a definitive canon source stating what type of legs they have.

So kitsune can't be caught flat footed?

*ow ow ow ow ow *

Mark Moreland wrote:

That text is in the book because, like Alex indicated, it made sense to include for a number of reasons, and so that we had a definitive canon source stating what type of legs they have.

So kitsune can't be caught flat footed?

*ow ow ow ow ow *

I don't think even Flutter would mind me whapping you a few times with a rolled up newspaper for that one. :P

That being said, interesting to see all the research and study put into the description, that's pretty intensive!

Could someone please give a summary of the naga bloodrager bloodline?

Gain fangs, swim speed, Natural Armor and poison resistance bonuses, poisoned fangs, turn into a naga (new Naga Shape spell line), become immune to charm and mind reading.

plz info on monk options or at least point to towards somewhere i can get the PDF by paying with american express <3

Favored class bonuses: Lets a catfolk do more damage with claw attacks and claw blades and use claw blades as if they were a monk weapon, if unchained, can do style strikes with claw blades.

Ki powers: Treetop monk's branch runner and freedom of movement class abilities are now ki powers. There's one that allows monks to use improvised and broken weapons more easily, and one that lets them spend ki to use Combat Meditation without using up a use per day and more rapidly.

Style strikes: One lets you perform a free dirty trick with a penalty if you hit, the other does the same for a bull rush.

I'm too tired to go into meditation feats. Razzafrazzin' lack of sleep.

Can i just get some assorted grippli spoilers maybe? I ordered it a week ago and im getting really impatient

Can i just get some assorted grippli spoilers maybe? I ordered it a week ago and im getting really impatient

That ought to tantalize your taste buds for a bit...

Having seen curse of befouled fortune now, I'm certain it's going into my next wizard. :)

Hi! I was hoping that the Developer behind First Mother's Fang can clarify if it is Nagaji-Only (but for some reason, does not state this or have any mechanic locking it to Nagaji) or if other races can take it?

Mh understanding is yes, I can take it as Human because unlike the Kitsune one that says 'Kitsune Only', this has no such caveat and does not name itself a racial archetype?

This will heavily affect my review for this product.

Please understand and respect, I am looking for the Developer and only the Developer to clarify this.

Thanks in advance for your time!

Hi! I was hoping that the Developer behind First Mother's Fang can clarify if it is Nagaji-Only (but for some reason, does not state this or have any mechanic locking it to Nagaji) or if other races can take it?

Mh understanding is yes, I can take it as Human because unlike the Kitsune one that says 'Kitsune Only', this has no such caveat and does not name itself a racial archetype?

This will heavily affect my review for this product.

Please understand and respect, I am looking for the Developer and only the Developer to clarify this.

Thanks in advance for your time!

I'm not the developer for Blood of the Beast (that's Mark Moreland; sorry if I'm stealing your thunder MM!), and while I know you asked for him specifically, I was the freelance author for the nagaji section so perhaps I can answer your question while you wait for an official answer from Mark.

My unofficial answer would be that you are correct. The archetype doesn't have any racial limitations called out, so a human can take it—usually we ("we" being Paizo freelancers) call out racial-specific archetypes either by noting it in the archetype's flavor text or in the introduction to the section, as I did with the nine-tailed heir.

I can't say how Blood of the Beast content will play out for PFS, and if your GM wanted to keep it nagaji-specific that's up to her, but there's nothing in the archetype's text that limits it to nagaji and I didn't design it with a racial restriction in mind. Again, if you want the developer's respond specifically, I would wait for Mark Moreland to reply. (But you'll likely be waiting a few days, as he might be taking the weekend off or be nose-to-the-grindstone on some upcoming project.)

I'm not the developer for Blood of the Beast (that's Mark Moreland; sorry if I'm stealing your thunder MM!), and while I know you asked for him specifically, I was the freelance author for the nagaji section so perhaps I can answer your question while you wait for an official answer from Mark.

My unofficial answer would be that you are correct. The archetype doesn't have any racial limitations called out, so a human can take it—usually we ("we" being Paizo freelancers) call out racial-specific archetypes either by noting it in the archetype's flavor text or in the introduction to the section, as I did with the nine-tailed heir.

I can't say how Blood of the Beast content will play out for PFS, and if your GM wanted to keep it nagaji-specific that's up to her, but there's nothing in the archetype's text that limits it to nagaji and I didn't design it with a racial restriction in mind. Again, if you want the developer's respond specifically, I would wait for Mark Moreland to reply. (But you'll likely be waiting a few days, as he might be taking the weekend off or be nose-to-the-grindstone on some upcoming project.)

So, first off-

I actually meant you! I am still newly dipping my toes into this whole world as more than an end-user, so I didn't realize that 'Freelancer who developed this archetype' and 'Developer for this book' could get mixed up.

Secondly, thank you so much for printing this archetype. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And if you are the one who wrote Feline Wildsoul, thank you! Or if you know them, please, thank them for me. Both of these will be getting glowing points in my review.

Third,thank you again for taking the time out of your day to respond to me!

Secondly, thank you so much for printing this archetype. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And if you are the one who wrote Feline Wildsoul, thank you! Or if you know them, please, thank them for me. Both of these will be getting glowing points in my review.

Third,thank you again for taking the time out of your day to respond to me!

I did write the feline wildsoul—my contributions to the book were the catfolk, kitsune, nagaji, and vanara sections. Glad to hear you like it! Its always nice to hear that there's an audience for supporting archetypes that have sub-options in them. (Like wildblooded sorcerer or wildsoul vigilante.)

Third,thank you again for taking the time out of your day to respond to me!

No problem! I am a glutton for community interaction. ;-)

I have a question about the ancestor eidolon. It says that at fourth level it gains a simple class template a la Monster Codex as though it had one hit die. It clarifies that with the rogue simple template, it wouldn't have the Evasion features because it's being treated as having one hit die. Does the eidolon still gain sneak attack +1d6, or does it not (half die rule)?

The Swarm Monger is my favorite archetype I've seen in a long time. I've already submitted one for a Bloody Jack game here on the boards. This creepy archetype looks perfect for a gritty setting like The Blight, IMHO.

Yeah, that Swarm Monger looks fun. Swarms of cats or ravens would be my favorite, visually, but I could see spiders or centipedes being fun, for the poison.

The Red Tongue Skald's power to share a rogue talent via raging song to his allies could be fun. Grant everyone your Terrain Mastery, or Ninja Trick, or Weapon Training, or a feat learned via Combat Trick or Style Master? Obviously, that's situational, if your Skald picked Weapon Focus kukri, and nobody else is using a kukri, that's no help, but I'm sure there's some goodies to be found, if the party is willing to coordinate with the Red Tongue player.

Something like Got Your Back could be fun to share with the group, for instance.

It is cool that it is official that Kitsune are digitigrade now. I've always felt that is the way they should be.

However, now *all* of my kitsune miniatures are officially incorrect, nuuuuu!

It is cool that it is official that Kitsune are digitigrade now. I've always felt that is the way they should be.

However, now *all* of my kitsune miniatures are officially incorrect, nuuuuu!

Just use humans and say that your miniature is in human form. ;-)

#MiniatureHacks

I have a question about the ancestor eidolon. It says that at fourth level it gains a simple class template a la Monster Codex as though it had one hit die. It clarifies that with the rogue simple template, it wouldn't have the Evasion features because it's being treated as having one hit die. Does the eidolon still gain sneak attack +1d6, or does it not (half die rule)?

I'm not sure what rule you're referencing when you say, "Half die rule."

That passage is referring to "one class level in the rogue class." Basically, at 4th level you don't get anything that a 1st level rogue, fighter, or sorcerer wouldn't have. At 12th level that boosts to 5th level rogue, fighter, or sorcerer, and at 20th level it increases one final time to 10th level rogue, fighter, or sorcerer.

It was designed to be useful and interesting, but decidedly worse than having, say, the Leadership feat. (Because you can still customize your ancestor will all manner of cool powers and abilities.)

I'm referring to the quick rules for class templates in the monster codex. The relevant part of the rogue creature simple template:

"Quick Rules: +2 to AC and on all rolls based on Dex; gains sneak attack† with a number of sneak attack dice equal to 1/2 its HD (maximum 10d6 at 20 HD)"

So if the template is being applied to the eidolon when it has 4 HD as though it had 1 HD, does that mean that at fourth level an ancestor eidolon with the rogue creature simple template doesn't have sneak attack 1d6?

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question.

I'm referring to the quick rules for class templates in the monster codex. The relevant part of the rogue creature simple template:

"Quick Rules: +2 to AC and on all rolls based on Dex; gains sneak attack† with a number of sneak attack dice equal to 1/2 its HD (maximum 10d6 at 20 HD)"

So if the template is being applied to the eidolon when it has 4 HD as though it had 1 HD, does that mean that at fourth level an ancestor eidolon with the rogue creature simple template doesn't have sneak attack 1d6?

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question.

No, that's actually an interesting question because it doesn't list a minimum CR.

My gut is that a template should never give you nothing, so it would be a minimum of 1d6. But that's more of a question for the PDT than this thread, I guess, because its a fundamental question about the template rather than the ancestor eidolon itself. You might be better served making a post in the rules thread and trying to get some FAQ tags.

Wouldn't the Rogue template still give the eidolon +4 to Dex? That certainly isn't nothing.

I'd click that FAQ. I hope the PFS folks put a note in the Campaign Clarifications document, too.

Wouldn't the Rogue template still give the eidolon +4 to Dex? That certainly isn't nothing.

Well, a +2 to AC and Dex checks. It doesn't actually get the +4, because it's using Quick Rules rather than Rebuild Rules.

I'll take to the FAQ, then! Thanks, folks!

Reviewed. Best Player Companion since Weapon Masters' Handbook AND best Blood of book so far.

Hearing both those things warms my heart. :)

I'm referring to the quick rules for class templates in the monster codex. The relevant part of the rogue creature simple template:

"Quick Rules: +2 to AC and on all rolls based on Dex; gains sneak attack† with a number of sneak attack dice equal to 1/2 its HD (maximum 10d6 at 20 HD)"

So if the template is being applied to the eidolon when it has 4 HD as though it had 1 HD, does that mean that at fourth level an ancestor eidolon with the rogue creature simple template doesn't have sneak attack 1d6?

I'm sorry if this is a dumb question.

The general rule in D20 systems is that you always round down - literally always, even if it ends up being .95 or something of that nature. You round down.

I purchased this on Thursday (albeit, late in the evening). When does it go 'live' for shipping?

To be more precise: You always round down in the absence of specific instructions to the contrary. The Rogue simple template in the Monster Codex provides no such contrary instructions.

So, the Blood of the Beast player's companion is now in 2nd place on the site's overall best seller's list. That's a pretty good sign :)

So, the Blood of the Beast player's companion is now in 2nd place on the site's overall best seller's list. That's a pretty good sign :)

I think that list is for some limited period of time (two months maybe?)... not over the entire history of the site.

Got my copy the other day and loved it. I'm hoping that with the success of the book that we'll see more support for these races with regard to miniatures as time goes on.

Matrix Dragon wrote:

So, the Blood of the Beast player's companion is now in 2nd place on the site's overall best seller's list. That's a pretty good sign :)

I think that list is for some limited period of time (two months maybe?)... not over the entire history of the site.

Oh, I know that it is time based. It would be crazy if in a month a player's companion somehow beat the core line, lol

Gorbacz wrote:

Reviewed. Best Player Companion since Weapon Masters' Handbook AND best Blood of book so far.

Hearing both those things warms my heart. :)

Should totally do a followup with love for some of the more monstrous beast races like gnolls and lizardfolk.

Owen K. C. Stephens wrote:

Gorbacz wrote:

Reviewed. Best Player Companion since Weapon Masters' Handbook AND best Blood of book so far.

Hearing both those things warms my heart. :)

Should totally do a followup with love for some of the more monstrous beast races like gnolls and lizardfolk.

Fluffies!

Nice aside in the 'Warp' discipline suggesting a direct Ysoki/Ratfolk of Golarion connection.

Any ideas how the restriction on the new 'Underfoot' feat, that it does not stack with other abilities which provide benefits for sharing an enemy's square, is supposed to work?

Underfoot: shield bonus to AC, bonus on attacks against creature, penalty on creature's concentration checks
Mouser underfoot attack: penalty on attacks and combat maneuvers NOT against the character
Vexing Dodger limb climber: penalty on creature's attacks against character
Et cetera

The Swarm Fighter (kobold only) gets a shield bonus to AC which would overlap, but that's the only one I can find... while the Mouser's underfoot attack is specifically called out as not stacking. So... how? If you have Underfoot (new, not old feat of the same name) you have to choose between those benefits and any/all of the others?

Yeah. The feat enables new enemy-square builds rather than giving old ones a major power boost.

Underfoot: shield bonus to AC, bonus on attacks against creature, penalty on creature's concentration checks
Mouser underfoot attack: penalty on attacks and combat maneuvers NOT against the character
Vexing Dodger limb climber: penalty on creature's attacks against character

*whistles innocently*

Is there a new underfoot? The one out of the advanced players guide is a circumstantial dodge bonus

Yep, and it should be possible to use Underfoot (old) and Underfoot (new) together since they each help against larger opponents, but work differently.

Even for the things Underfoot (new) 'does not stack with' it might be useful if you can choose which to use on any given round. For example, it gives a bonus to AC against attacks from ALL creatures... which could be more useful than a higher bonus against just the targeted creature's attacks if it has friends. That said, it'd basically be a self nerf for something like a Kobold Swarm Fighter Vexing Dodger Mouser with Underfoot (old) to take Underfoot (new).

The 'Effortless Dual-Wielding' AWT option in the Vanara section is another thing which is going to open up some new builds... I foresee dual bastard sword TWF designs... w/o sun blades.

*whistles innocently*

Good luck getting that swarming racial trait to qualify for the feat, mister.