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Yeah, base it off of the Ring of Protection, and if you want it slotless apply the appropriate multiplier.


Hm, I think I posted the question in a way that shows my bias by calling it "fluff". My intention was something like "Do you need crunch for something that can probably just be fluffed?" but it clearly shows which way I'm leaning.

Another example would be something like taking ranks in Profession (Soldier) on your fighter, because that's what he does (besides adventuring).


Of course, but does your qualification of being a "Good Singer" mean capable of Inspire Courage? For some people it does.


For an example, you've got a Paladin that you want to say is a good singer.

Do you think:
1) "I have +4 Cha, that makes me pretty dang good at singing."
2) "I have +4 Cha, but I'm gonna need to put (a: some/b: lots of) ranks into Perform (Sing)."
3) "I'm gonna need to multiclass into Bard."

You can come up with your own examples or tell anecdotes of what characteristics/backstory/fluff you feel comfortable handwaving and what you want to have hard rules and a certificate for.


Goldenfrog wrote:
Now granted the OP missed a perfect opportunity to turn this into a adventure. Heck perhaps she even did it on purpose! She is a frigging Witch! What a cool start for a reoccurring villain!

+1 I love it when my feats turn my gold into coal then become recurring villains.

One time I took Improved Sunder and the DM decided that the master that taught it to my fighter did so by breaking his magic sword.

Edit for back on topic: Yeah I don't think anyone is saying the player's reaction was a good one but it's definitely an understandable one. It's up to you guys to forgive each other or not, we on the forums can only talk about the in-game situation.


Same rating as a mystic theurge. The ability to sneak in 1d8 damage vs. touch AC every other round is not something to write home about.

Post a build if you want a stronger evaluation because I don't see anything special about the idea itself (from a mechanical standpoint).


That's beside the point, which is that it's not clear if the cohort is the PC's character #2 or his NPC.

But if it were the point (and I'm tempted to bite) and you're afraid of metagaming, you could easily have a conditional statement: "After this item is done, it's going to be tested first by magic, then worn as a test by me/the witch/volunteer. If no problem is found then, I'm wearing it constantly."

Same for traps. "I have a serious suspicion of this door being trapped. Even if I can't find any traps I know that might be more indicative of a personal failure than a safety of opening the door. I'm standing back even if I don't find anything."

Same for appraise (though personally I wouldn't even roll it if my character is bad at it. Some DMs love to have this skill come up maybe twice in a campaign and punish people for not taking it by making them price it at 10% value and sell it easily for nothing, rather than accidentally price it at 200% value and being turned away/bargained with). "I don't know anything about fine art, but this picture looks valuable. I'm going to take it to a trusted expert before I try to sell it, but I may as well try to ballpark it (or not)."


If it was his character, he should've done all of her rolls. But at that point your stance was: "What's more, it isn't even his character that is crafting the item, it's an NPC. "

Have you revised your opinion since? :P


I agree that you didn't do anything wrong, but you could've done it far better, or at least friendlier.

For one thing, it seems to me a strange split that he had enough control over his cohort to pick her spells, but not enough to roll her crafting checks.

The fact that he didn't finish picking the Witch's spells before asking for her to craft this item sends a pretty clear message: He has little interest in the details of casters/crafting. If you're going to roll dice for his cohort, you probably should've built picked its spells as well.

He basically put out a job on Craiglist "Wanted: Witch who doesn't mind getting her hands dirty. Required skills: Crafting magic items, especially belts of physical perfection."

My preferred ways of handling Leadership is allowing the player to pick an NPC they've met, or make an outline of the sort of character they want, rather than having them build PC #2. It sounds like you kinda share the same thoughts.

And even though that stuff didn't happen, the witch probably could've thought "Man, my pirate boss is giving me a ton of money for this project that I KNOW will flop. I should tell him to hold onto his money so I can research the proper spells first, or things might get unpleasant in our professional relationship."


All signs point to your DM not wanting you to optimize. If that's not the case, I'd suggest a divine caster of your choice.

Summoned monsters are always as effective no matter the point buy, so be a Druid or a Cleric with Sacred Summons if you want to make the best of the setting. With Augmented Summoning, these critters will have higher stats than the party.


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I'll bite.

1a) Most feats are either effective and bland (See weapon spec) or ineffective. Sure, maneuvers are cool...if you're constantly facing humanoids. If you're fighting monsters, you're not going to be able to deal with their size, str, and higher HD. Plus size limitations stop you from even attempting some manuevers, as do other factors (natural weapons/armor can't be disarmed or sundered).

1b) How many truly cool feats are there? Dazing Assault is pretty cool, and so is Crane Wing. They can accomplish things you'd otherwise expect of magic. Go ahead and name any others as badass as these.

1c) Feats aren't even that special. Everyone gets them, the Fighter just gets twice as many. It's less feats than casters get spells, and weapon-users need the feats much more than casters do I never feel as I have too few feats as a caster. It's usually spent on Extra ____ if possible, maybe some spell focus, improved init. But you're pretty much set. The Fighter is compensated with his weapon/armor training, which is effective, but also boring. Weapon Training wouldn't be half as good without Gloves of Dueling in existence either, and that's gonna set you back 15k.

2) As has been mentioned, melee combat is not especially rich. There's 8 schools of magic (not counting universal) which all perform quite differently from each other, but a swordsman is the same as an axeman or a hammerman.
The only weapon that stands out from the herd is the Scimitar because of Dervish Dance. For everything else the difference is a class of damage die and a x3 crit vs a 19-20/x2. That doesn't feel particularly different in the rare cases it even comes up.
2b mini rant) Reach weapons at least play a little differently, but I find it crazy that only a Polearm Master archetype can figure out how to shorten his grip to use the weapon against opponents that get close to him. Even casters aren't that punished for letting someone get that close to them because of defensive casting, and their ideal range is usually 100ft or more away from their opponents, while spearmen are engaging someone at 10ft.

3) If I wanted to cast spells I wouldn't make a martial and max out ranks in UMD and sink tons of money into it. I'd make a caster. They should be able to stand alone and do cool things. But it's this dang attachment to realism that some people have that keeps these classes grounded. Partially why I'm excited for Rule of Cool's Legend system.


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SmiloDan wrote:

My vote has changed to: Greater Weapon Specialist net.

Because of the feat cost.

And there's no net gain.


With 32 PB you can bite the Str penalty and be a Str-magus if you like. Much of the magus damage comes from bonus dice similar to the rogue, so it's not too great of a deal. Of course, a +4 dex does point you a certain direction.


Ethereal Gears wrote:
I do like a challenge when it comes to character creation.

You like a challenge in character creation so you're asking us to do it for you?

Well, you'll want inquisitons that actually give you somewhat spammable abilities to use for mystic combat, such as Torture. Besides that, Anger seems handy for raging.

Actually it seems that despite SGG's recommendations, actual domains are better than inquisitions for this archetype since it gets to use them as part of mystic combat. Darkness is good for blind-fight and giving an enemy 20% miss, Animal will give you a companion helper, Law (Inevitable) will allow you to toss out Commands, Plant (Growth) for Enlarge Self as swift, Trickery is great for making a clone as part of your full attack.

Those domains are where I would start.


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Non-combat feats rarely accomplish more than a cantrip, and often accomplish less. If you want to extend your non-combat versatility...take Extra Hex and pick a utility hex.


Are we talking the children's show magical girls, or the most badass magical girl there is, Punie-chan of Dai Mahou Touge.


Here's a Goblin monk I concept'd up a while ago:

http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=37967

He wrassles people and hog-ties them with rope. Eventually he takes Equipment Trick (Rope). Maybe there's some inspiration for yours.


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Witches have an excellent alternative to casting when threatened: Using hexes.


Extra Hex again, or Improved Initiative.


Everything is individually wrapped, of course. Or imagine the mess on a warm day.


Trap Feats: Worse than actual in-game traps, these feats do nothing 99% of the time (and when they do something it is insignificant) or they actively make the character worse. Some designers will claim that these are necessary to reward System Mastery, which is similar to a Rogue's Trapfinding only in real-life.

Anyone want to do a more complete definition of System Mastery?

99%: 100% unless it is beneficial for the player, in which case the Dice Gods will make it certain failure.


Core Races: A coalition of species that maintains military might enough to kill all oothers while maintaining high enough population counts to cover the planet in their writhing young.

Goblins: A race of small greenskins that makes constant attempts to prove they deserve to be a Core Race because they are the best at sex and have a casual propensity towards violence and cruelty. Stopping their attempts to be considered a Core Race is often the first test of Adventurers.

OOC Jokes/References: This is what players engage in between combats, neglecting any and all potential for roleplay. A DM is to be grateful if this banter does not include Monty Python.


Spell Component Pouch: In a game that tracks an archer's arrows down to the very last one, the spell component pouch is a 5gp 2lb wonder that contains every possible spell component and spell focus in the game, and never needs to be refilled. However if you try to use anything in the pouch for something besides casting, such as tossing some of the licorice shavings you use for Haste into the dinner pot, the DM will look at you like you are insane

Haste: Widely regarded as a very well designed spell, Haste tricks your foolish companions into charging headlong into battle, while doubling the speed at which you may execute a tactical retreat.

Unfair (2): Any DM decision I did not ask him to make.


Dexterity: The ability score most often mistaken for the best one in the game because it does everything. If you sink enough feats into it, it will apply to your AC, reflex save, initiative, to hit and damage, as well as some nice skills. Unfortunately at no point does it allow you to bend reality as Wisdom, Intelligence, and Charisma do.

Diplomacy: The skill, not to be confused with Longsword Diplomacy or Fireball Diplomacy. If played by RAW this skill is actually magic that works in anti-magic zones that allows you to charm anyone into being Friendly with you, except for the rest of the party who will hate you for making combat, and thus loot and experience, disappear from the game.
Alternatively a DM may decide that using this skill is rollplay and what really matters is the roleplay, in which case you might as well not take ranks because the Cha 5 Orc who is untrained in Diplomacy will end up being more convincing and likeable than your Face Character just because his player is more eloquent in real life.

I have no idea what the actual bolding conventions are!


Rynjin wrote:

I like leveling, but I also like playing around with stuff I've already got for a while too.

I'd say that while Adamantine likes to have at LEAST 6 sessions on a single level, I like about at MOST 6 or 7 sessions without leveling.

Pretty much this. I like leveling, though not too frequently. I also like adhoc leveling so I never noticed 4e leveling too fast or anything. It pretty much depends on the DM anyway.

The first time I played 4e, we did level ups every session to test out more of the system. It was fun in its own way, though I wouldn't do it normally.


Seems weird to roll for sexuality, I'd just keep it at the XY or XX level.

I do +1 the suggestion that non-main races can be included or excluded. That'd be cool. Or maybe even decide which specific races you want it to roll among.


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/supernal-feast

Prerequisites: Con 15, aasimar.

Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to a good outsider that takes bleed or blood drain damage, you gain 1 temporary hit point as you bathe in the celestial being's gore. Furthermore, as a full-round action, you can feast on the fallen body of a good outsider that has been dead no longer than 24 hours. When you do, you regain 1 temporary hit point per Hit Die the outsider possessed at a rate of 1 hit point per minute. Temporary hit points gained from this feat last 1d4 hours.

I wonder who wrote that one.


Failed will saves cause more annoying penalties than any other save types.


Litany of Righteousness + Damage (say a Smite Evil and Radiant Charge)


Basically what others say, buffers make excellent cowards if that's the RP route you want to pursue. You may feel weak as a person, but if it's within your power to arm your companions, then they'll defend you.


The Aldori Swordlord Fighter gets to do some damage on a disarm.


Utility spells you plan to use then. If you don't make use of armor, Mage Armor is solid at a 3 hour duration. Grease, Alarm, Endure Elements (doesn't care about CL but still good for a dip), Mount, Vanish, Magic Aura all open up some options too.


Are you a level one character, or are you a level2 something/lvl1 sorc/wiz with Magical Knack and no intention to go further in your casting class? Or something in between?


What flavor have you guys used to describe rage-cycling in game?


I apologize to all people that expected a different type of rise. I was considering titling this thread "How to troll the forums with a single post" or something like that, but decided against it (as often the case is these topics are made by innocents who don't know what they're starting).

This topic is mostly for fun and also for the slim hope that people will be able to recognize troll topics and take necessary precautions.

And how did I possibly miss GM Tyranny/Player Entitlement. Those are always big.


I could probably enjoy playing any class except Cavalier, unless I take an archetype to swap out the mount.

I just hate mounts.

I also have a preference for lightly armored/unarmored classes. But I could probably bust out heavy armor if I must.


What topics often reach high post counts, despite the fact that they never break new ground or resolve anything?

1: Alignment (double effectiveness if about Paladin code)
2: Monks are underpowered
3: Rogues are outclassed
4: Powergaming is evil

Others you may have noticed?


As others have said, this dilemma feels particularly contrived, engineered at great personal expense by a genre-savvy villain.

What reason would the Paladin even have to trust this villain at all? Unless the party can rally the proper magic to avert falling into the pit and saving the boy, it's pretty much resign yourself to dying.

I think Helic's scenario is a pretty good one, though I would modify it. He pushes the hostage into Hell, and the party has the option of following to protect, or attempting to engage the BBEG. I'd also let them actually rescue the kid if they pursue him into Hell and manage to protect him.

Not only to allow them a well deserved win, but also because it makes sense from the villain's POV. If they do a rescue and it turns out to be a simulacrum, they'll never pay attention to any "hostage" the villain has. It would be so much easier to just take another hostage later.


By which I mean the actual application of the Superstition rage power in an adventuring party. There are a lot of relatively short duration buff spells a friendly arcanist might provide a barbarian, including Enlarge Person and Haste, that would be cast in combat. Other spells that might be cast as well after the nature of the enemy is discerned, such Resist Energy, or heals after some damage gets done.

So would you take superstition in the classic party (meleer, arcanist, divine caster, skill monkey)? Do you hold back on raging until you're good to go on buffs? Or do you just flat out reject them/save vs. them?


TriOmegaZero wrote:
Lauraliane wrote:
What are those good archetypes?

Zen Archers take advantage of the overwhelming superiority of ranged combat.

Maneuver Masters have done very well at debilitating enemies so they cannot harm the party.
Masters of Many Styles are good with the right choices as Crane Style can make you an excellent blocker.
The last two have trouble actually finishing a fight without someone else to deal the damage for them however.

Though Maneuver Masters still have trouble fighting monsters as they get bigger and omg super strong.

Monks can do well against mostly humanoids and casters, but unless you know that's the campaign you're going into, you'll be hitting a rock wall with maneuvers on monstrous opponents.


+1 to killing alignment restrictions.


Atarlost wrote:
One should not introduce new players to the game with a pure buffbot. They're dull in combat and with a charisma penalty he's not going to have the skills to make up for it out of combat.

Oh nooo, a -1 penalty to social skills relative to most other characters, or -2 relative to races with a charisma bonus. What a truuuuly insurmountable challenge!

Being a Bard without a max'd Charisma is easy, as others have said you can just use spells that don't rely on saves. He's still an excellent buffer, and he's tough enough to stand on the front lines.

I disagree that buffing is boring, though YMMV. I consider healing boring, but when I cast Haste and see 3 extra attacks per round doing damage, that's basically my damage. I can take some joy from that.

I agree with either Arcane Duelist arch, or vanilla bard.


Looks like a Ranger 5 (Infiltrator Archetype) with Favored Enemy: Leopards.


Death knell is such a short term gain that I seriously the code commands you to. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Gotta differentiate between the disposable lackeys, and the experts.

Lamontius wrote:
this is going to end in tears

I love these little moments of calm before the crying starts.


Well, Improved Init is effectively +8 to Dex for initiative purposes, so unless you have Cha as a secondary score it's going to be better.

I meant that non-dex meleers don't have to go first because being flat-footed isn't so bad, they'll get to full attack instead of charging, and they won't be in the way of their blaster's blasty spells (that usually mean reflex saves).


If you're a melee character that doesn't rely on Dex to AC, it's not particularly important. It allows your mages to blast the enemies without worrying about you already being engaged, and it allows you to full attack as the enemy comes to you, rather than doing a single charge attack.


SterlingEdge wrote:


If they critically fail a swim check, then fail a DC 15 fort save, they drop 10 feet further under water.

What if I was diving? Do I accidentally float?


I think being fantastically ugly like some posts suggest is still a high charisma, because people notice and pay attention to you. Plenty of magnetic people have been ugly.

I'm gonna echo the other camps

Low Cha is being socially invisible from shyness/apathy, or being a jerk, whether you're aware of it or not.


That is a lot of Int and a relatively low Wis, for a character that uses Wis for his Grit Pool.

If you swapped them you'd still be getting 6 skill points a level, which should be plenty.

With more Grit you could play a little safer by using Deadeye.


Hunter's Irony

This is a standard bear trap, only the misfortune of a victim doesn't end when the jaws clamp around the triggering appendage. The pressure plate also activates the magical component, casting SNA IV to call a Grizzly Bear that prioritizes the victim of the trap.

Bear Trap

So it seems to me that this trap has a base DC of CR 1, and the highest level spell on it is lvl4, which adds +4 to the CR for a total of 5. Is this appropriate? It seems a little weird that a trap that's as easy to defeat as a CR 1 trap should count at full value.

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