Playtest Vigilante Second Impressions


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Lantern Lodge

What I like:
I'm loving that the social identity has been expanded upon in the update. It has potential for some more elements. The social identity should be more than just the guy that spreads rumors. Gaining companions through this that give minor boons. Say, a butler that runs your house or a junior sidekick that is there in a pinch to provide just the right clues, but provides little in the way of combat assistance. Even having Leadership after 7th level would make sense, though I never allow the feat in any of my games due to the tendency for players to abuse it.
The familiar has a secret identity. You can't imagine how much awesome this is. I want to make 50 warlock characters, each with a different animal, just so I can repaint all of my miniatures with tiny little Robin masks.

What it is missing:
The dual identity is a little too obvious. Sure, the vigilante has ways of hiding his identity, but to what end? Would he be incarcerated? Would his loved ones be put at risk? Does anyone even care that he is a normal socialite under that mask? He doesn't even risk losing his abilities if he runs down the street screaming his secret identity.
As a whole, I look at this class and I just see the Batman type. I don't see the Joker. For every character class in the game, it is easy to imagine the polar opposite.

The Vigilante Specializations are flavorful and each is unique. But like the Shaman, it would benefit from a few "universal talents". Having a Mount would be universally beneficial. Archetypical characters like the Lone ranger or Ghost Rider always had a trusty mount that provides transport and combat assistance. For that matter, the Vigilate could benefit from gaining a vehicle of some sort. Either a chariot or a magically propelled cart of some kind. The vehicle mechanism is so under used and would give the Skilled Driver and Expert Driver feats some use.


Corneleus Idaho wrote:


What it is missing:
The dual identity is a little too obvious. Sure, the vigilante has ways of hiding his identity, but to what end? Would he be incarcerated? Would his loved ones be put at risk? Does anyone even care that he is a normal socialite under that mask? He doesn't even risk losing his abilities if he runs down the street screaming his secret identity.
As a whole, I look at this class and I just see the Batman type. I don't see the Joker. For every character class in the game, it is easy to imagine the polar opposite.

The risk is GM territory. If they list that things HAVE to work in specific ways, that really restrics things.

As it stands if I run down the road declaring I am X vigilante it's basically Ironman.

The abilities still work (cause sudden appearence, and i'm still scary vigilante) because there isn't a reasonable reason why it wouldn't.

Sure people would give you looks when your talking up how awesome you are.. But how is that different than what some players do anyway, or to use a recent popular example. Ironman

Everyone knows and it helps them target, and it helps them analyze and counterbalance his fighting style (2nd movie) or ambush him more readily (3rd movie). If a playe chooses to play a vigilante who doesn't actively keep himself a secret the enemies get to take offense as normal.

Honestly I see Joker pretty assuridly. He regularly disguises and does it better than batman and has tricked batman.
He's a good example of having no special identity. He's himself in whatever form he chooses. (I could argue the Joker being either form honestly)

Lantern Lodge

You know, after I posted that, I thought the same thing about Joker. He's such a complex character that I forget sometimes that he does sometimes put makeup over his bleached skin to publicly discredit batman or puts on a second mask to blend in with his minions.

I think I'm expecting the vigilante's cause to be a requirement in the same way a Paladin code or a Cavalier's edict restricts his actions. It could even be as simple as the edicts of the ronin, choosing 3 rules that he follows.
1. Protect the innocent.
2. Be the night.
3. Never fire a firearm.

or contrariwise

1. Death is always funny
2. Make the funny last as long as possible
3. It's not about the money, it's about sending a message.

These are bad examples, I'm just thinking on the fly, here.


I can see reasons for wanting the restrictions. but I can't agree with the idea of hard baked restrictions.

THe vigitlante class doesn't have enough "OOMPH" to warrent a "need" for it mechanically.

and putting it will really pigeon hole the class into one style of person. With it's current more "open" endedness to the limitations of persona and secrets you can really make a variety of people and concepts.

If you lose all your abilities as a vigilante if anyoen finds out. That is more of a final coffin quit your character danger.
Unlike reaffirming your oath, or your code and praying for forgiveness.

Your only real option would be to.. mass erase pepoles memories with like a Wish or something. Since there isn't really an option for changing your social/vigilante personas into new versions.
They'd have to put in more wording for changing them, and how to rehide and all that, which would just take up word space and complicate the class into being difficult for some games and gms.

Having the open ended GM-player reaction consequences it allows for dynamic gameplay and some great moments. Rather than "aw crap I got found out, lets go redeem myself again."

well thats my impression anyway. and I see no reason to limit free choice design if it doesn't have a real need.

======
edit: Also note entirely sure vigilantes need a cause persay. Sure they are named vigilante, but they can be used for such a vast variety of ideas that instilling some sorta requirements ala oath, would also force them from being broad range applicable to being "only" that role.

as it stands I can see using a vigilante in most of my games actually, just to varing degress of vigilante moments (as in actual vigilanteism; hunting down crime and such). but if I had to chose and adhere to some crime fighting code it would be a lot harder


Zwordsman wrote:

I can see reasons for wanting the restrictions. but I can't agree with the idea of hard baked restrictions.

The vigitlante class doesn't have enough "OOMPH" to warrent a "need" for it mechanically.

I see it as a way to add "oomph" honestly.... there should be a reason for the double identity, and if it defines/hinders you, it should also help you... I hope to at least see this when new archetypes are created.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Maps, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Maps, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Maybe the origin stories idea could be mechanically represented as archetypes. You get really angry at things, gain d12 hp, and gain Toughness and auto Rage in exchange for your first social talent and first two vigilante talents. Obviously not correctly balanced but you get the idea.

Add an archetype wherein everyone's attitude towards your vigilante identity is Hostile, if the secret gets out they're hostile towards your Social identity as well. In exchange you get... I don't know, a Vigilante talent at 1st level and the Safe House social talent for free? The Batman archetype.

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