First Look at the Pathfinder Playtest

Tuesday, March 6, 2018

Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.

Illustration by Wayne Reynolds

New, but the Same

Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.

Building a Character

It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.

Playing the Game

We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!

Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!

Monsters and Treasure

The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.

We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!

What's Next?

There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!

Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!

We Need You!

All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design

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Tags: Pathfinder Playtest
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

4 people marked this as a favorite.

This is very exciting. I never expected Pathfinder 2, since it seemed like the premise was a forever-edition in the 3.5 style, but I'm sure there have been a lot of lessons learned that can't be implemented in any other way than a new edition, and I look forward to seeing what the Paizo team creates.

Shadow Lodge

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Jason Bulmahn wrote:
But.. I really dont want to spoil too much right now folks. Have a little patience. There is a lot here to cover and we are going to be doing blogs two to three times per week, along with recorded play sessions to give you a sense of what the playtest book will contain.

Last time you didn't go into too much detail the threads about the Shifter (and the UW product thread itself) became 'toxic' so perhaps, this time, it would be better to let some actual mechanics out early?

Unless vague promises of "bearowls" will work a second time, of course...


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Petty Alchemy wrote:
This is very exciting. I never expected Pathfinder 2, since it seemed like the premise was a forever-edition in the 3.5 style, but I'm sure there have been a lot of lessons learned that can't be implemented in any other way than a new edition, and I look forward to seeing what the Paizo team creates.

We have already seen which 'lessons' Paizo learned in Starfinder and unless they ALSO have learned the complete opposite lessons that doesn't look too good for PF2.0


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Cautiously optimistic here. Things had gone *way* past "unwieldy" as far as I'm concerned.


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Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

So i've slowly been selling off my RPG's and some boardgames to Noble Knight Games. I was selling my stuff becasue my Pathfinder books needed space and I wasnt playing alot of the other games anymore. I got rid of all of my GURPS 3E books and almost all of my CHAMPIONS 4E books. ALOTof my 3.5 books are gone with a few exceptions.

Just last week I finally caved and bought the 5E core books and Tales of the Yawning Portal from Amazon for about $130. I've been listening to and enjoying the 1st Critical Role Campaign and really enjoying it and have been getting a feel for how 5E plays. Do I mean for it to supplant my Pathfinder game? No but WOTC reprinting a bunch of their older adventures in one book in the latest edition was too hard to pass up. I'd pretty much been ignoring 5E since it came out until recently.

I've been with Paizo since the Dungeon days. I still have all of my issues with the AGE OF WORMS and SAVAGE TIDE AP's. I was here when the Pathfinder AP's kicked off and was a subscriber from the beginning. I was and still am a subscriber to the RPG line even though I've been thinking about canceling. Now that I know that Planar Adventures will be their last RPG hardcover it seems like a good solid jumping off point.

I dont get the crying about the lack of support for PF 1e. It really seems like some ol' crybaby stuff. You literally have close to a DECADE WORTH OF MATERIAL. I will NEVER be able to play through the 17 AP's that I own. I have the RAPPAN ATHUK HC, the SLUMBERING TSAR HC, several PF Kickstarters like the MYTHIC HEROES HAND BOOK, MONSTER MANUAL AND SPELL COMPENDIUM, DEEP MAGIC, BARD'S GATE and ADVANCED BESTIARY. There's enough material that you'd never want for new stuff except out of an extreme sense of entitlement or pure GREED. Of all the things Ive read people complaining about this is the one that makes the LEAST SENSE to me.

I've already decided that I'm going to keep playing OG Pathfinder alongside 5E (if I enjoy it). That way I have my crunchy ruleset and my streamlined ruleset. I have M&M for my supers game and I'll have Modern Age for my Lazarus game that I want to run.

The playtest is free as a PDF and I may by a hard copy just to peruse it. But I cant in good sense re-buy my entire PF library to play with in a new edition especially when I just sold/traded a bunch of books to clear space. Maybe I'll feel different in a couple of years but for now looking at my shelf of PF books and remaining 3.5 books? PF 2E is a Pass for me folks. I'm not nearly as emotional about this as some people here are. I've supported Paizo for a loooooooooong time and understand that they are a business and has to do what's right for them as such. I bear them no ill will. Good luck.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Companion, Lost Omens, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Kevin Mack wrote:
Mark Moreland wrote:

As for deep continuity, as mentioned in the FAQ, we won't be changing any of the core assumptions of the setting, or jumping forward decades or anything. Some rulers might change here and there as makes sense, and some borders may shift from the default First Edition map, but the history of the world isn't getting retconned or anything like that.

Is making Goblins a playable race not changing the core assumptions of the setting? Since being a playable race right out the core rulebook would indicate they have gone from crazed pyro's people tend to kill on sight to being if not welcomed at least tolerated.

I have NEVER gotten the hype of PF Goblins. Every time a goblin adventure dropped for free game day, I stayed home. Most of my home game area doesn't even have goblins.

That aside I am looking forward to the new edition, but with trepidation due to the 3.5 to 4E fiasco. If it's not for me and my group I have plenty of material to last me another 10 plus years.


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You annoyed me with Starfinder. You have now officially lost me. Cancelling my subscriptions today.


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Well, I am sure it has been mentioned many times up thread, but PF2E seems to be taking a lot of inspiration from DnD 5E. That's not a bad thing for me, 5E's more streamlined rules took over from PF as my game of choice. So I'm excited to see what Paizo can offer back to bring me into the PF fold! Looking for to the playtest PDF

RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16

Hythlodeus wrote:
Petty Alchemy wrote:
This is very exciting. I never expected Pathfinder 2, since it seemed like the premise was a forever-edition in the 3.5 style, but I'm sure there have been a lot of lessons learned that can't be implemented in any other way than a new edition, and I look forward to seeing what the Paizo team creates.
We have already seen which 'lessons' Paizo learned in Starfinder and unless they ALSO have learned the complete opposite lessons that doesn't look too good for PF2.0

I haven't played too much Starfinder, so I'm still getting over the vehicle learning curve, but that's something I don't expect much of in PF2 anyway.

I didn't have any big problems with the class design (Solarion was interesting in concept, but Graviton mode felt quite underwhelming in comparison to Photon), or the way multiple attacks work now (as basically a natural Rapid Shot). I didn't have a huge love for wealth remaining a secondary exp track with leveled items, so I'm hoping to see that handled a little more differently.

Shadow Lodge

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That's kind of a big part of the turnoff for me, to be honest. If I wanted that kind of gameplay, I'd just play 5e.


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Where do we sign up for the playtest materials?

Dark Archive

Terevalis Unctio of House Mysti wrote:
Where do we sign up for the playtest materials?

It will be free download or you can pre-order a physical book that will cost money. Preorders start on the 20th.

Here, some more info and a good FAQ at the bottom which has these and many more answers. http://paizo.com/pathfinderplaytest


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Really, I just hope that this isn't Pathfinder: Starfinder Edition and that the devs actually take note of complaints in the playtest, as long as those complaints are conveyed respectfully and positively.

The last playtest we had, toxicity aside, we had devs basically tell us, "We don't need you to crunch numbers for us, we don't need armchair devs." Well, considering this is a new system (If it isn't SF-based), that's exactly what's going to happen. A few thousand of us fans crunching numbers compared to a few dozen devs is liable to catch something someone missed.

Dark Archive

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I had a talk with my 9 year old about Pathfinder 2nd Edition after the initial upset after he bought the Pocket Size Core Book and APG afraid he would use them again. My wife and I told him that even though the game is getting a new Edition we don't have to stop playing the first edition. He is saving for the Pocket Size ACG to play a hunter in PFS. His mood brightened because he gets to play his Elf Ranger and his Tengu Hunter. He is looking forward to making a Goblin Alchemist in 2nd Edition.

He is excited to be a part of a new system especially when I told him we would be learning the system together that made him happier.

I am personally excited for the new edition, I have been playing Pathfinder since Beta, I am planning on supporting the playtest and 2nd Edition right now. I am interested in the forthcoming changes and updates to the rules.


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I'm very much looking forwards to what changes they might be making with 2nd Edition Pathfinder, especially with my fondness for some of the alterations we saw with Starfinder. That being said, I know with fair certainty one of my least liked aspects of the game will probably remain... the Vancian magic system. I really and truly wished there was some better option out there. It's outdated, clunky, and desperately needs to be revamped.


I have a lot of 3rd Party material. So one of the most important things for me to know is how hard is it going to be to use them in 2E. The answer to that is going to be one of the major desiding factors for me. If I can still use them with a little work that's fine,

but if I can't use any of them then I am better off sticking with 1st edition.


@Dark Midian

We had that the FIRST playtest. It's why CMB/CMD is STILL broken at higher levels and against any monstrous foe.

Grand Lodge

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Please reach out to those with degrees in Philosophy (particularly logic) and English who play. I can name quite a few. We need more consistent language to avoid those RAW vs. RAI arguments. Hopefully some of the great work done in Starfinder will rub off into PF 2.0!

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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Let the past die. Kill it if you have to.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16

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greyden1 wrote:

Please reach out to those with degrees in Philosophy (particularly logic) and English who play. I can name quite a few. We need more consistent language to avoid those RAW vs. RAI arguments. Hopefully some of the great work done in Starfinder will rub off into PF 2.0!

...or a good lawyer! We have that same skill set.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Sqn Cdr Flashheart wrote:
Well, I am sure it has been mentioned many times up thread, but PF2E seems to be taking a lot of inspiration from DnD 5E.

Respectfully, if you're correct it IS a bad thing. And I'm not referring to my tastes on the matter. If 5e is a thing that is popular and growing, and PF 2E goes the "hey, me too!" route, how does that making Pathfinder and Paizo successful? Why go with PF if 5e already does it?

Now, it will be July to see how much of PF's "lessons learned" are improvements over PF 1E or aligning to 5E's mindset but I hope for much more of the former and much less of the latter.


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Charlie Bell wrote:
Let the past die. Kill it if you have to.

which is the exact attitude WoTC had when they made 4E. So No I would rather Paizo take a different approach


deuxhero wrote:

@Dark Midian

We had that the FIRST playtest. It's why CMB/CMD is STILL broken at higher levels and against any monstrous foe.

Pretty sure that's why CMD in SF is based on your armor, and bonuses are nonexistent.


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I wanted to think about this for a bit, and read though the post a few times to prevent a knee jerk reaction. Here's my impressions (Admittedly ill-informed, until I can see the PDF with my own eyes) and thoughts.

The Good: Archetypes in core, glad to see they aren't throwing out the baby with the bathwater there. The new action economy has me intrigued. Ease of conversion for adventures. From the pod cast the GM is converting on the fly. so it's either very easy, or he's just that good.

The bad: Sounds like they are using the skill system from 5th ed, and possibly back grounds from Ultimate Campaign. I'll be blunt, I hate both.

Other stuff I may be reading too much into but not very keen on: Stats seem to be determined by first your ansestory (race). I'm guessing everyone starts with an array based on race. Then modified by your background, and then class. I'll look at it, but I'm not too sure about this aspect. Quite frankly, I prefer dice rolling for stats, and I hope it remains an option.

OC I may be completely wrong about all of this. In any case I will wait for a final analysis until after I get something to look at.


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Could have waited a few more years. Yes, there are some minor things I’d like to change about Pathfinder, but all in all this is the best fantasy system we’ve had in 40 years.

And we’ve invested a lot into Pathfinder as well. I love the classes you’ve introduced and have hardly scraped the surface of playing all of the classes. It’s hard to get excited about losing an investment of hundreds of dollars.

By the look of it, all old PFS scenarios will be extremely difficult to convert. So I guess play them now before they are gone?

I also fear you’re going to fix problems that don’t exist (exploration vs encounter time, really?) and not fix other problems (various skill problems, archers being too dominant).

I like the approach of Pathfinder Unchained, the past classes were still relevant yet we had these updated classes as well. Sigh.

So while I’m excited that a new edition in the sense that it could attract new players and streamline some rules, the thought of losing hundreds of dollars when I can already tell the stories I want to tell, is not attractive.


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Honestly, if there's another thing that I'd like Paizo to take notes on from 5e, it's "Use errata as clarifications/fixes, not balance passes." I get that PFS is a thing, but please, PF2e should let the practice of nerfing things into the ground for no reason die, especially when errata itself is so rare because of the book reprint requirement.


Dark Midian wrote:
deuxhero wrote:

@Dark Midian

We had that the FIRST playtest. It's why CMB/CMD is STILL broken at higher levels and against any monstrous foe.

Pretty sure that's why CMD in SF is based on your armor, and bonuses are nonexistent.

I meant the first playtest as in the Pathfinder playtest. The CMB/CMD math simply not functioning was known and reported multiple times there.


deuxhero wrote:
Dark Midian wrote:
deuxhero wrote:

@Dark Midian

We had that the FIRST playtest. It's why CMB/CMD is STILL broken at higher levels and against any monstrous foe.

Pretty sure that's why CMD in SF is based on your armor, and bonuses are nonexistent.
I meant the first playtest as in the Pathfinder playtest. The CMB/CMD math simply not functioning was known and reported multiple times there.

I know what you meant. In any setting like this, there will always be times where the devs will say, "We're professionals, we know better than you, this isn't a problem" and lo and behold it's actually kind of a problem later on.

Then again, a fair amount of devs who worked on the original Pathfinder beta don't work for the company anymore.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Orthos wrote:
ZᴇɴN wrote:
Charlie Bell wrote:

But also, I hope PF2E does the following:

1. Jettison any complexity that gets in the way of play. The challenges in the game should be bugbears and green slimes, not navigating the rules!
2. Fix character creation. Make the PC rules robust enough that it's virtually impossible to create either a) a PC so gimped they can't contribute, or b) a PC so powerful they overshadow the whole group. You are smart designers and can figure out ways to differentiate without making them all mechanically identical! Get rid of trap options, feat taxes, and must-haves like Power Attack. Get rid of things that make 1 statistic do the work of multiple stats (e.g. oradin Cha shenanigans)... but let statistics do the work they should (e.g. rogue weapons should work using Dex without Weapon Finesse/Fencing Grace/Dervish Dance/etc.). Never make a class wait until mid-levels to "come online" - classes should function as envisioned from 1st level (e.g. druid shapeshifting).
[...]
5. Don't try to make adversaries play by PC rules. There are some things boss monsters need that should never, ever be in PC hands. In particular, absolute immunities (e.g. freedom of movement) and things that affect action economy (haste, dazes, etc.) should be really, really hard for PCs to get.

Most of this is the exact opposite of what I, and a number of posters I've seen earlier in this thread, want. It really is true you can't please everyone.
Yep, pretty much this. A LOT of this stuff - ESPECIALLY NUMBER FIVE!!! - is anathema to what I want out of a game.

I'm right there with you. I have dozens of new-era "easy to play" games I can choose from. I'm a Pathfinder player because I love its flexibility and breadth.


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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

I hope rangers can get their Animal Companion at lvl 1


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I, for one, welcome our new 2e overlords.

Contributor

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Looking forward to it! Particularly something that doesn't require a veteran guide to learn effectively.


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Puck the Unlucky wrote:
...the Vancian magic system. I really and truly wished there was some better option out there. It's outdated, clunky, and desperately needs to be revamped.

I couldn't disagree more. I avoid spell-point systems and make-your-own systems like the plague. In my opinion, the Vancian spell system is the very heart of D&D/Pathfinder.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Pathfinder Accessories, Rulebook, Starfinder Accessories, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

To my surprise, I have mixed feelings about the announcement of PF 2e rather than knee-jerk negative feelings. I'm very satisfied with PF 1e and I HATE edition treadmills. Also, while I can appreciate that 10 years is a long time from a publisher's viewpoint, I think it's crap to say that it's a long time in game-life. Some of us don't have the luxury of a weekly or bi-monthly game. Some of us play multiple systems.

That said, while I'm very happy with PF 1e, there are facets of it that I wish were done differently or worked a little smoother. This, in part, has me somewhat optimistic towards PF 2e. Nine times out of ten, Paizo delivers what I want from a RPG.

But there's a lot in the little info revealed thus far that has me concerned. Skill proficiencies?!? 10th-level spells?!? Both sound like moves in the polar opposite direction of what I want. Starfinder is a beautiful product and there were elements that definitely improved over PF, but the things I didn't like in it I really didn't like.

I've been a Paizo customer since RotRL #1. I've been with them the whole Pathfinder ride.

But I don't know if I have another "10-yr train" in me. I literally have $1000s in Paizo products, Hero Lab, and 3PP products. (And please, no "nothing happens to your books" garbage. We all know that it comes down to finding people to play the game.)

I do appreciate Paizo giving customers the heads-up this early. I'm prepared to be wowed. But PF 2e is going to have to knock it out of the park and shatter glass with the sonic boom. If it doesn't then I'll make Savage Worlds my one-system-to-rule-them-all (how it tempts me) or break down and give 5e a try (and I really, really don't want to go that route).

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Looking forward to playtesting PF2E. But, have to say I'm cautiously looking forward to it. I was far more excited about playtesting Starfinder than I was actually playing it. I'm hoping not too much of that makes it into PF2E, but will come with an open mind.

I'm not super excited about goblins being a core race though - they're fun little monsters, but monsters more than PCs. Exceptions such as the We B Goblins modules are great palette cleansers and changes of pace, but there's probably dozens of races I'd rather see as core PC races before goblins (or kobolds, orcs, gnolls, etc.) It's okay for goblins to be a Paizo icon and loved by all without making it a core race - it feels like making a Star Wars game with porgs or ewoks as a core race cause they're cute rather than including twi'leks.

I'm also quite nervous about the monster design direction. Didn't like the pathfinder unchained version, which then became the starfinder version, because it made the monsters not use the same rules as PCs. I'm happy to have monsters with special abilities which PCs can't get, but not so much if they don't use the same methods to determine strength ability scores or stealth or other skill checks, or different monster versions of PC spells all the time.


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Eh
My friends and I came to Pathfinder because we loved 3rd Ed D&D and didn't care for 4th.
Now Pathfinder is going to a new set of rules too.
Kinda defeats the point for us.
I'll pass.


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I seem to be late to every party. Even though I've been supporting Paizo since the magazine days when PF didn't even exist, I only just converted to PF rules last year. And I'm only finally getting around to Savage Tide (and next, the Age of Worms). I own every AP and module, plus many PC and CS books. So at this point I'm probably an extreme example of the "I have enough PF material to last x number of lifetimes", and thus there's no need for me to switch. Having spent considerable amounts of money on all these products, I want to give myself the time to enjoy them (to the degree I find the time), rather than feel pressed to keep buying new materials for the new system.

I think PF 2.0 will be the point at which I stop buying new material. Not b/c I think it will be a worse game than PF 1.0, or a better game than PF 1.0. It's far too early to tell. But it will be a good, clean stopping point so I can belatedly enjoy a decade of PF 1.0.

I wish Paizo all the best after that point, and thanks for all the memories so far. I'll stick around I guess until August 2019, though my forum reading will probably be more sporadic as everyone (well, not everyone obviously) talks about 2.0.


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Mark Moreland wrote:
The plan is to address this in the course of play in an upcoming adventure so that it is part of the evolving narrative rather than simply tacked on all of a sudden with no context.

Does this mean we don't get to be crazy little pyros anymore? This saddens Gip enough he feels like writing...

Shadow Lodge

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Full disclosure: I'm going through the FAQ and responding to things that catch my eye.

"But I don't want to change editions! I want to play Pathfinder First Edition forever and ever and ever!" This sounds like you're calling the people that love your game children.

"You still decide on your class—the rulebook includes all of the core classes from the First Edition Core Rulebook, plus the alchemist." Why Alchemist? If there are only four spell lists, why not just four spellcasters?

"All of the varied systems and formulas for determining your character's bonuses and statistics, like saving throws, attack bonuses, and skills, have been unified in a single, easy-to-use proficiency system based on your choices and your character's level." Oh, so this sounds a lot like 5e. Well that is boring.

"Gone are the confusing action types like move, standard, swift, and immediate, instead replaced with a simple system of three actions and one reaction each round." Well... I mean, the most confusing thing was that an immediate action too your next round's swift action. How were the others confusing considering the tables for them?

"Does the new version of Pathfinder find a better balance between spellcasters and martial characters?" Interesting that you address this when there is at least one person on your staff that has said Caster/Martial Disparity doesn't exist and is just in the head of a few people with an agenda.

"Starting August 2, with the release of the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook and the Pathfinder Playtest Adventure, we will be conducting an open playtest of the game that will last several months." Awesome.

"We'll have a survey system in place that will collect feedback on a weekly basis." Not awesome. I understand why you would do this, but it needs to be a really expansive survey or it's just going to have 'answers' people can pick that are what you guys want to hear or not have a decent place for playtesters to extrapolate on.

"Will world-shattering events change the basic assumptions of the setting?" The answer to this, as a whole, I like. Good job. Just please don't do anymore "Here's a big mystery that's SUPER important to the setting... and we're never telling" I liked it back in the beginning with Aroden when it sounded like even the people at Paizo didn't know, then I found out you guys knew and that killed it as a mystery.

"And they'll be joined by a brand new iconic alchemist—our very first iconic goblin player character!" My infamous goblin characters thank you.

"You no longer need to collect a specific set of magic items to be a balanced character, relying on specific magical statistic bonuses. Instead, you get all of the bonuses you need from your regular armor and weapons, allowing the rest of your items to be truly wondrous." Had to come back to this one. Is this just Automatic Bonus Progression? I really like that system, and hate the level-based items in Starfinder.

I remember you guys saying that you feel a new edition should roll around every ten years or so, and now that the initial shock is gone(has it really been ten years?!) I'm sad to say I will be pessimistic about this as I have been about several recent products.

While the reason I am going to be pessimistic is a bad thing, being pessimistic is not. If I am wrong, then I get to be pleasantly surprised. If I am right, I am not disappointed again.

The one thing I worry the most about is that PF 2E is going to be Starfinder & Fifth Edition: On Golorian with it's mechanics. I didn't like Starfinder at all(I regret that a friend gifted me the pdf when I said I was going to wait for it to be online) and while I have played a few 5E games they were just. So. Boring.

Here's hoping you don't lose huge swathes of the customer base you cultivated over the past decade.

Cheers, Paizo, and good luck.


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I wonder if a 3PP will do what Paizo did with 3.5, and keep the current iteration of the rules (3.x based) in print. Wouldn't have to say Pathfinder on it, just use that base set - for those who want to keep the same (basic) ruleset.

It would appeal to a niche of a niche so I don't think it would be a huge seller, but probably pretty robust sales if everyone who likes the system moved to it.


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Jason S wrote:
I like the approach of Pathfinder Unchained, the past classes were still relevant yet we had these updated classes as well. Sigh.

I am very much hoping the 2E Core classes wind up closer to Unchained. Until that book was released, I had no intention of playing a Barbarian as the risk of death was so much higher than the other classes. Having played a TWF Disarm Unbarb to 10th level, I love that I don't have as much calculation to do and no instant death because I calm down.

In a similar fashion, every other character idea seems to involve Unrogue. Rogue was very underwhelming, but with built in combat capability, I can more easily go after the thematic aspects without stopping for a few levels to become useful in combat.

So yeah, looking forward to seeing if the Core classes are able to break their chains or if they're going back into legacy prison.


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ShinHakkaider wrote:
There's enough material that you'd never want for new stuff except out of an extreme sense of entitlement or pure GREED.

Uh, wow, okay. Guess I'm entitled and greedy for still having more things I hoped to see in a game I'm familiar with and like.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Saw one thing that fills me with concern. Skill proficiencies. Sounds very 2nd ed D&D. I like the way skills are, thank you.


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Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber
Anguish wrote:
Nathanael Love wrote:
Thanks for telling me that the money I spent on this game was not appreciated, Paizo.

See, that's harsh, and in my opinion unreasonable.

Paizo shouldn't be locked into forever making 100% compatible material just because you - or I - prefer it. Sure, I was bummed out when the pasta sauce base I've used for 40+ years was discontinued. But that doesn't mean Kraft did me wrong. All of those meals I've eaten were delicious, and they were exactly the reward I'd contracted with Kraft for when I bought the sauce.

We aren't entitled to eternal new books for PF1e. We got what we paid for. We got a decade extension on life for the rule system we enjoy. We should be thankful for that.

Put one last, emotionally-loaded way, if my wife (of nearly 20 years) decided to call it quits with me, I'd be very, very saddened. But I wouldn't ever think the last two decades were wasted or regret it, or be angry, because frankly they were wonderful years, and the lack of future wonderful years wouldn't take them away from me.

So hey, I'm about as not-thrilled as can be about this news, but I'd still recommend taking a different perspective than the angle you're firing at.

No, they shouldn't be locked into forever doing anything that don't want to do- but I don't want to spend money on a new edition.

But they don't have any claim on my money.

We're not entitled to new PF1E no, but Paizo isn't entitled to my money.

I've been very up front that I would drop all my subscriptions and stop spending the money whenever Pathfinder 2.0 happened-- I've done edition switches and its not a transition process I have any interest in ever doing again.

I have almost the entire core line for four editions already now (2nd ed, 3rd ed, 3.5, and Pathfinder); I've been through the same thing with Shadowrun as well.

It wears me out. I'm tired of buying "This editions version of Spells & Magic (2nd ed)/ "Tome and Blood" (3rd ed)/ "Complete Arcane" (3.5) / "Ultimate Magic" (Pathfinder)-- I've bought that book four times in four different systems already, I don't want to do it again.

The "new edition" cash grab feels like just that- a cash grab. A way to get more money out of us for the same things- "Hey guys, aren't you excited? The 2021 GenCon Hardcover finally gives you back Gunslinger that we took away, aren't you pumped to see how we did THAT old class you loved in the new rules!?"

No, no I am not.

I already spent enough on Paizo products- I can redirect that money to other uses if they don't want it. Switching to a new edition definitely tells me they don't want it.

Shadow Lodge

I've started listening to the podcast and the first thing that popped into my mind after the "I wondered why we were here" comment, and the following joking around, was that it sounds a lot like Mystery Science Theater: 3000.

I am now sad there is not likely to be a audience of one person and 2-3 robots making fun of the characters. That would have been awesome.

EDIT: Never mind that last bit. The player's are doing a great job of it.


I have mixed feelings about this as well. I'll just wait and see.


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Adventure Path Charter Subscriber
Dragonborn3 wrote:


"But I don't want to change editions! I want to play Pathfinder First Edition forever and ever and ever!" This sounds like you're calling the people that love your game children.

Well, to be fair, there's a lot of petulance in this very thread.

Dragonborn3 wrote:


"Gone are the confusing action types like move, standard, swift, and immediate, instead replaced with a simple system of three actions and one reaction each round." Well... I mean, the most confusing thing was that an immediate action too your next round's swift action. How were the others confusing considering the tables for them?

Also to be fair, it's not like there haven't been tons of questions about them over the years. Can a swift action spell be cast in a slower action? No. Should it really make sense that you can't do so? Probably not. But, there it is.

I remember back in the 3.0 days when there were at least 2 fewer actions than you list...

Reforming the action types is, as far as I'm concerned, a good idea.


IT'S HAPPENING.


As a bonus, those of us that are going to not buy PF2, will have plenty of cash to spend on those amazing WizKids figures.


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Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Then don't buy it. Third party will probably continue, and we will still get more 1st ed stuff till august.
I do agree with you about the edition change exhaustion. That's why i switched to PF. but once in ten years is OK. Hell, there were three or four in wizards (2nd, 3rd, 3.5, 4th, 5th) and don't talk about games designers workshop. It's damn expensive. And game wreaking.
Still, I'm going to give paizo the benefit of the doubt, and look at the playtest.

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