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So Saturday morning I killed off my first characters while GMing a PFS game, and I went all out and killed them all :-(. For those that have played #29: The Devil We Know—Part I: Shipyard Rats, you can probably guess which part.
I would like to apologize to those guys... Feel sorry for killing you all of :-( *Characters not Players*.
If there are any other GMs feeling guilty for their TPK, feel free to post here.
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I racked up 2 TPKs at that spot. Also 1st level parties. I think I have the folded "name tents" for most/all of the characters from the second set (the first group was all pregens- 2 Valeros and 2 Merisiels) and am thinking of making a PC graveyard on my mantle at home.
They were all offered a chance to surrender. None took it.
So, no guilt here. (Mostly because the players all said they had fun.)
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Which spot was that? My first level group went through that scenario fast and (as a cleric) I didn't even use a single heal spell.
Was it
After playing 5 scenarios at Gencon, I really feel that Barbarians and Fighters are incredibly overpowered now and if you had one and a cleric, you'd do fine in any scenario. Anyway, later I'll write my feedback in another thread.
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I played this at a short table, four players. A bard 1, barbarian 1, paladin 1 and ranger 2 (me). We played the mod smart. We'd heard rumors of TPKs. We still came within one mistake of a TPK. After two rounds, three of our party was down. The only way we survived was by correcting a mistake in the number of HP taken/given, and realizing our paladin wasn't down. It went like this:
This is a rough outline of how I remember the combat.
Round
1) 1st bad guy advances, I drop it on my turn, 2nd bad guy hits us all, barbarian and paladin advance to 2nd bad guy, bard sings.
2) I miss, paladin or barbarian hits, 2nd bad guy hits us all, barbarian, paladin, bard down.
3) I miss, mistake on paladin found (not down), paladin hits, 2nd bad guy flees very fast.
4) I take a parting shot, bad guy drops.
We had no cleric. We couldn't heal from the 2nd bad guys attacks without losing an attack. There may have been an additional round in there were we all missed and took dammage. That was Saturday morning.
The 2nd bad guy's powers seemed way too good for a 1st level party to handle, especially a short handed one without a cleric.
-Swiftbrook
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Until a certain spot (a spot I think everybody knows) we thought the adventure was extraordinarily easy. Our group played it smart and didn't outright prevent, but seriously limited the situation in question though, which I think helped.
Our group's total damage taken during the entirety of Shipyard Rats could have been absorbed by anybody in the group and they would have been left standing.
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I racked up 2 TPKs at that spot. Also 1st level parties. I think I have the folded "name tents" for most/all of the characters from the second set (the first group was all pregens- 2 Valeros and 2 Merisiels) and am thinking of making a PC graveyard on my mantle at home.
They were all offered a chance to surrender. None took it.
So, no guilt here. (Mostly because the players all said they had fun.)
Surrender? :P
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I played this at a short table, four players. A bard 1, barbarian 1, paladin 1 and ranger 2 (me). We played the mod smart. We'd heard rumors of TPKs. We still came within one mistake of a TPK. After two rounds, three of our party was down. The only way we survived was by correcting a mistake in the number of HP taken/given, and realizing our paladin wasn't down. It went like this:
** spoiler omitted **
-Swiftbrook
Our solution was the following:
1. Be stealthy and pull up the gangplank.
2. Sneak carefully to the bottom with our stealthy ranger and start the first fight on our terms. We took out everybody in a single round of combat.
3. Hear somebody yelling from outside "Oy! Which one of your morons pulled up the gangplank? Somebody get out here right now."
4. The ranger, wizard, and ranged cleric took up position while our fighter with a bluff of 10 yelled up "sorry, we're coming right up" in a guttural orc voice.
5. We peppered her with shots for a round and our speedy fighters (nobody was in medium or heavy) took chase when she ran from us.
Our fighter did take a couple good hits, but our combat cleric was up next to him most of the fight and they surrounded the group really well (the fighter made a 15 foot leap to cut them off, it was pretty awesome).
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We got through it just fine too, and I'm surprised to hear about TPK's.
Here's how ours went, best I can recall...
Bennie the Reluctant (rogue 2, me) sneaked onto ship with hasty disguise as a drunken sailor, spotted for the rest of the party and waved them in when the coast was clear.
We weren't particularly quiet I don't think while we searched the ship's rooms, though everyone else was below when one of our party fell through the hole into the hold from the deck with a thud.
Bad guys were encountered at bottom level. Battle ensued. A number of us jumped of the stair and tumbled around the bad guys and got a lot of flanks. Bad guys dispatched.
We heard a voice from the dock. Bennie and another rogue donned bad guys clothes as disguises and took sorcerer as pretend prisoner. Had her going for long enough to start combat at 10' distance.
I don't remember them being too terribly tough.
What was it that was hard? Did our DM miss something we should have had a harder time with?
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In this specific mod, we rolled the bad guys relatively easy.
The bad guy (gal) I think everyone is talking about only pulled her trick once before we rushed up and got on her. I guess knowing the cleric class and its various powers has some benefits.... I recognized what was happening immediately and we all found ways to engage her ASAP.
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** spoiler omitted **In this specific mod, we rolled the bad guys relatively easy.
The bad guy (gal) I think everyone is talking about only pulled her trick once before we rushed up and got on her. I guess knowing the cleric class and its various powers has some benefits.... I recognized what was happening immediately and we all found ways to engage her ASAP.
Same issue x2.
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I did not have any TPK's in my games, but it was very close each time.
She caught them below decks, and had the zombie hold the choke-point on the stairs. In each case, she was able to see the PCs down through the grills connecting the main Deck with the Ballista Deck, and blast them, or heal the zombie, through that.
In "Cassomir's Locker", there was another near-TPK. A 20-hp cleric with *both* Channel Negative Energy *and* Aura of Madness (which delivers a 1 rnd/lvl mass confusion effect as a supernatural ability) is a formidable opponent for a band of 1st-Level PCs. He almost killed them, and he hadn't even cast a spell.
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For our table it was a little different.
The GM thought we were cake walking it after two encounters so he bumped up to the next tier. Out table's average level was 4.5 so we had chosen the 3-4 tier. When the battle was tearing us apart he apologized and bumped it back down and we finished the scenario. It would have been a TPK easy if he would have stuck with the bump he made. Don't do that please.
The second part was a cake walk compared to part 1.
Will there be a part 3?
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I was a player in one of the Saturday morning Gencon games of Shipyard Rats. Ours was not a TPK but only 2 of us survived. Me (Elf Ranger) and the Cleric were captued, beat, interogated and then let go. We got no XP and 36 gold each. Wooh Hooo! In all honesty, our group stunk! We had 2 players that were just totally random and kept splitting the party. Never a good idea at 1st level. Our GM was gritting his teeth after the first 10 minutes and we could only hear half of what was said because the room was so loud. That all said, I can't wait to play again. Hopefully with a better group and a more patient DM. :)
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Perhaps the major difference here was:
1) character level.
We were higher level, with more durability and the 'opportunity' to make some mistakes and not die immediately as a result.2) attacks of opportunity.
"Know when to hold 'em, Know when to fold 'em"
With the fast zombies on the stairs, we had multiple characters run up on them and take attacks of opportunity, to get up to the cleric and start getting damage on her. A few points of damage / character was a fair price to pay just so we wouldn't have to take the cleric negative energy attacks. (she also saw us through the grates and was nailing us below)As an aside, that was a great strategy for her. I can't believe I forgot that those grates were there! We had an ambush opportunity and lost it because of a lack of focus. I guess we were lucky it didn't turn out worse than that.
MSG
Sounds like I had ou in one of my games. Your right, getting your people out fast was the best you could do under the situation you found yourself in.
Herald aka Michael.
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Surrender? :PI racked up 2 TPKs at that spot. Also 1st level parties. I think I have the folded "name tents" for most/all of the characters from the second set (the first group was all pregens- 2 Valeros and 2 Merisiels) and am thinking of making a PC graveyard on my mantle at home.
They were all offered a chance to surrender. None took it.
So, no guilt here. (Mostly because the players all said they had fun.)
I hear the slaves' lives aren't all that bad.....
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Michael,
Yes, we were at your table for this one.
I had forgotten who ran which of my games, to be honest.I think you did a great job, BTW.
I really liked your thinking on the fly and I could tell you were trying to make sure that even if the tactic hadn't crossed your mind, you evaluated the realism of it, and let us have a chance at success.I wasn't trying to insinuate that the easiness of the mods was GM-based... sorry if it came off like that. I think you did a good job with the adventure as it was given to you... I just think our party was too strong for the adventure as it was written (even if you mildly modified it... which I don't really know).
Thanks again for the great game.
We _DID_ have a great time... even if it wasn't super deadly.MSG a.k.a. Marcus
No worries I had a good time too. I just ran the encounter the way it was writen.
Two groups on Saturday didn't have an easy time of it on Saturday. Bad rolls with the earlier encounter, bad rolls on healing, and then having a problem getting on deck really gave them problems.
Couple that with some crits made by NPCs and before you know it, you have some players being sold on the Chelish slave markets.
I do get your point, the mod could have been more deadly, but running it six times and 2 of 6 being TPKs, IMHO, I'd say that it was just about right.
Very glad to hear that you had a good time!
Hoping to see you next year!
Herald aka Michael.
Venture-Agent, Indiana—Lafayette
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So Saturday morning I killed off my first characters while GMing a PFS game, and I went all out and killed them all :-(. For those that have played #29: The Devil We Know—Part I: Shipyard Rats, you can probably guess which part.
I would like to apologize to those guys... Feel sorry for killing you all of :-( *Characters not Players*.
If there are any other GMs feeling guilty for their TPK, feel free to post here.
As a player in this illfated TPK I have to add my 2 cents.
First off I had a great time, dead and all.
Second much of the result was lousy character die rolls (loads of them), poor tactics on our part and a low number of strong fighter types.
Caution to other players: Trying to bluff an evil baad guy/gal (EBG) is incredibly difficult when attempted in a language other than the one minions ever use. :) Read "Hey EBG the good guys are here, prepare yourself" And she prepared herself very well.
Advice: First level Wizards and Sorcerers must stay beyond 30' of evil clerics of higher level prepared to use channel negative energy.
Overall I think Dragonmoon did a great job and look forward to playing him scenarios at future cons.
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...And many weeped before the Harbinger of Death. (j/k)
I ran Shipyard at least five times and racked up three full TPKs, two deaths on another that finished it, and the last would have been a TPK had I not let the Wizard escape and sold the remaining two unconcious into slavery.
Some where out there are two players running around with certs which read (for the most part):
Slavery: This character has been sold into slavery. Until another Pathfinder pays 100gp for their freedom all treasure and money earned by this character are considered property of its owner.
Looking back I should have written it like this instead:
Slavery: This character has been sold into slavery. Until the character earns 100gp to pay for his/her freedom they suffer a -4 penalty to all social checks.
The latter isn't as harsh since it doesn't deny them treasure and stuff and can easily be paid for in a couple of adventures, if not the next one, but still imposes a penalty for being a slave.
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Overall I think Dragonmoon did a great job and look forward to playing him scenarios at future cons.
Thanks! But I still feel bad about killing your PCs off, especially with 3 people new to the society at the table, Would have liked to have had a better introduction then that.
In the Future I will be more carefull with new players.
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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I killed off a player in PFS #29 at DragonCon 2009.
I misread the module and put 3 Zombies instead of just 1. It still would have been rough, but the Paladin might have lived if it was only 1 zombie.
The Paladin was Blind and got full attacked (2 attacks each) from all 3 zombies.
Two natural 20s, one natural 1 and two more hits.
With only 2 misses, he would have still likely took 20 points and been close to dead in the negatives instead of dead/dead.
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I killed off a player in PFS #29 at DragonCon 2009.
I misread the module and put 3 Zombies instead of just 1. It still would have been rough, but the Paladin might have lived if it was only 1 zombie.
The Paladin was Blind and got full attacked (2 attacks each) from all 3 zombies.
Two natural 20s, one natural 1 and two more hits.
With only 2 misses, he would have still likely took 20 points and been close to dead in the negatives instead of dead/dead.
So you're the one they are talking about here.
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So you're the one they are talking about here.
Yep, But i dont blame him for the zombies (it was a simple mistake), his rolls were good. The channel energy 2d6 6 times might be a little bad arse for 1st levels.
James, The paladin came by my house yesterday ( he in a non PFS game i run) and was telling the guys at the table about the senario (in a positive light). You did fine, dont let it get you down.
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The Paladin was Blind and got full attacked (2 attacks each) from all 3 zombies. Two natural 20s, one natural 1 and two more hits. With only 2 misses, he would have still likely took 20 points and been close to dead in the negatives instead of dead/dead.
Think he said his AC was something like 12 after the dex was gone with 9/13 Hit points at the start of that encounter. Lets see what the numbers are. Full attack gave them them (2 Slams +4(1D6+4))*3 vs DC 12 Chance of hit is 6 rolls which would hit on a roll 8 or higher (65% success rate per roll, any given roll had 5% chance of crit) to a minimum of 0 damage if your dice died on you or to a maximum of 12D6+24 or 96pts if your dice were hot. The bell curve of the Crit confiming was pretty good (again 65%), so the average damage he could hope to recieve on that butt whuppin you handed him was 18.72 points of damage. You were above the curve ;)
Gorum was pleased! I am still finding tiny bits of paladin flesh in my pack. I look forward to the next game session.
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The channel energy 2d6 6 times might be a little bad arse for 1st levels.
I think it would have been better if the other cleric would have had it.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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One run-through of the module at GenCon, I had
... Luscilia flee after using most of her channel negative energy and seeing her Nature's Cataclysm fighters show up. The party found her waiting in the Rat's Nest with Dilario. Now, that made for a tough encounter.
It's worth repeating from another thread that, according to the Pathfinder rules, there shouldn't be any mindless undead accompanying that particular NPC, because she has no means of rebuking or controlling them.
There's an error with Luscilia's stat blocks:
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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The paladin came by my house ... and was telling the guys at the table about the senario (in a positive light). You did fine, dont let it get you down.
Thanks, it's good to hear that. I try to do my best to run mods without mistakes, but sometimes they happen.
There's an error with Luscilia's stat blocks
Thanks, I think that might help a bit.